Kunai & Despair

[LasersGoPewPew]

or since you only hold one knife in each hand,  it could be turned into an AP kraken without recoil? burst throwing 2 with a 2 knife "clip"? it reloads fast as hell compared to most side arms in the game.

[BlueCremeSoda]

Uughh..

 

Just say that a lot of the primary weapons are worse than the Lex. Lex used to be the best secondary, now its one of the worst.

A lot of them being worse changes what exactly? If they are worse, it's obviously better. You only said the same thing but a different way which makes absolutely 0 difference?

[Renan.Ruivo]

A lot of them being worse changes what exactly? If they are worse, it's obviously better. You only said the same thing but a different way which makes absolutely 0 difference?

 

It was a joke.

[ra9una]

This won't end well.

[Nexias]

Prepare for the inevitable dooms-day for the Kunai and Despair everybody, you all know its coming.

[LazyKnight]

Reposting it everywhere people are talking about nerfing again. DE need to fix mob scaling, before balance is possible.

 

Dread, Paris, Boltor, Bolto, Snipetron, Kunai and Despair all lose effectiveness once due to health as a mob increase in level.

ALL standard damage weapons lose effectiveness twice  as mobs increase in health/armor.

 

The problem with this game is how the developers scale armor per level up of the mobs. The higher the mob level the better armor pierce/ignore scales comparatively to standard weapons. This is part of a coding issue concerning how they gave the monster too much effective health verses standard weapons. 

 

They need to rebalance this issue before they can possible ever make higher level content.  This armor issue is the problem with ALL standard damage weapons they are useless at 80+ comparatively. I made a long post about this that got lost but it is a double mitigation scaling issue that only affects standard damage and is the issue causing all the major balance issues.

 

This is why a great gun ideas like Grakata and twin viper and all these other interesting guns stop being usefull past Earth missions. If armor didn't scale you could use them anywhere.

 

Health and armor are the same thing. This game does not have dodge or evasion calculation so it is very easy to figure out how much effective health something has when they are being hit by a standard weapon.

 

If they do not want to balance this they should tell people that the games weapons are not made for content higher than 50+

They only need to make health/shields increase in  a growth curve(or any way of upward scaling) as mobs increase in level nothing else and it would make the game far harder than it is.

 

Throwing knives could just be hot fixed so they are not full auto with capped speed till they address the issue of mob armor/health scaling.
 

To anyone that wants to look at what effective health means

http://www.tankspot....e-Health-Theory 

How armor works with math http://evilempiregui...iminishmath.php

This is for World of Warcraft but it is the same thing just different numbers in the equation

Edited June 2, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Synxxx]

Semi-auto is a terrible solution, and doesn't fix anything other than force players to use autofire macros to avoid getting a repetetive stress injury.
 

[CubedOobleck]

Semi-auto is a terrible solution, and doesn't fix anything other than force players to use autofire macros to avoid getting a repetetive stress injury.

It's not like a akbolto that has almost 30 bullets and a potential fire rate of 10.

Kunai and Despair have 10 blades and a fire rate little above 3.

The strain is less and you can easily click that fast.

[Synxxx]

It's not like a akbolto that has almost 30 bullets and a potential fire rate of 10.

Kunai and Despair have 10 blades and a fire rate little above 3.

The strain is less and you can easily click that fast.

A proper (read: actually fixes the underlying problem) solution would be to simply keep them F/A and tune the fire rate until it's where they want it without ruining them with semi-auto. I don't use akboltos because spam clicking isn't even remotely fun, and it's really @(*()$ painful after a while. No need to add that crap to other weapons.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Synxxx

[LazyKnight]

What I think is broken is the 72% speed fire mods pushes these weapons into the op zone. So reason I said make it semi auto was so it couldn't use single click murder all Grineer mode. If they just made it a fixed fire rate unaffected by that mod it would work too.  I am not trying suggest something to hurt people with repetitive stress injury. I am unsure if the developers tested the Kunai and despair and just over looked this mod but it might be the only thing that needs adjusting is fire rate.

Edited June 2, 2013 by LazyKnight

[dukelego]

Remove v sure. Remove auto? No way! It would make high level enemies a lot harder to deal with! I'd rather have a damage decrease then a change to semi auto. If you think the fire rate aught to be slower just lower the base fire rate for them

What difficulty are you guys playing on anyway? (Enemy level)

Edited June 2, 2013 by dukelego

[dukelego]

Prepare for the inevitable dooms-day for the Kunai and Despair everybody, you all know its coming.

*de nerfs*

*people start to play on pluto and t3*

*people: all are weapons suck wt**********

Edited June 2, 2013 by dukelego

[LazyKnight]

Armor piercing(Despair) and armor ignore(kunai) and have a fire rate potential of 5.676 with 55 base damage and 45. And read my if comment, it was UNLESS the developers want to fix the scaling issue that double mitigation of mobs and nerfs normal weapons. 

 

It just need to be caped at fire rate of 3 max. Its only broken because of speed NOT damage.

 

I am not saying this is needed for level 50 can kill just as fast with Hek akbolto or anything else. I am talking about that mob that  are over 100+ It is is top dog without a close 2nd with just damage mods the fire rate is too much.

.

I have basically maxed all damage for weapons except hornet strike at rank 8(last mod to max for weapon damage)  So I can test when I want to compare and not just run numbers.

Edited June 2, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Bennyworld]

Yeah - they are skillful weapons - I really hope they don't get over-nerfed. *crosses finger*

[Synxxx]

I'm guessing that they'll wait until the sales of the stalker pack hit a nice low before they buff Reaper Prime to where it deserves to be and nerf Kunai/Despair to the ground.

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

I've been using Kunais since the 2nd day of their release.

 

 

This is what I have to say.

 

 

-Rank 30

 

-Not Super Charged

 

-Hornet Strike Rank 4 +100% Damage

 

-Gunslinger Rank 4 +60% Fire Rate

 

-No Return Rank 0 +5% Armor Piercing Damage(Kunais already have innate armor piercing, but I had one mod spot left so I just slapped this on)

 

-Trick Mag Rank 0 +15% Ammo Capacity

 

-Heated Charge Rank 0 +15% Fire Damage

 

-Deep Freeze Rank 0 +10% Freeze Damage

 

-Convulsion Rank 0 +15% Electrical Damage

 

-Quickdraw Rank 0 +8% Reload Speed

 

 

 

Slap on a PISTOL SCAVENGER ARTIFACT for battle.

 

 

 

Only ever use Kunais.

 

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BASS CANNON (no I am just kidding)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Grineers die in 1-2 hits.

 

I clear rooms only using Kunais and nothing else before anyone shows up.

 

Bosses just get drained of HP.

 

I can kill anything far away with these.

 

Reload is almost instant.

 

I have never ever run out of ammo for Kunais since I've used them.

 

Ancients die in 4-7 hits which takes less than 3 seconds and ammo replenishes so fast that I gain more than I lose thus I never run out of ammo.

 

Hordes of infested, grineer, and corpus succumb to them very easily.

 

Easy mode headshots.

 

Kills anything much faster than my super charged level 30 Braton Vandal.  So I don't use it that often anymore.

 

 

Only use melee weapon stacked with Fury mod for super fast sword dashing.

 

 

I don't even need to use radial javelin to kill tons of enemies since my Kunais are much more effective (unless I want to one hit ancients)

 

 

Slash Dash is only really used as an escape move now.  Kunais kill much faster.

 

The enemies' bodies that have been killed by the Kunai can go crazy and kill the other enemies for me which means my Kunais make dead bodies kill things for me.

 

 

Effortlessly kill anything with them.

 

Extremely efficient while moving, sliding, jumping, parkour, etc.

 

Hardly need to aim, ammo pick-ups restore missed shots anyways.

 

It's hard for me to miss any shots really.

 

Like I said before, I may miss an enemy that I want to kill, but if I kill another enemy, its body has a chance to kill the enemy I originally wanted to kill.

 

 

Trick Mag + Pistol Scavenger Artifact = "Infinite" Ammo

 

All the other mods = God Weapon

 

 

 

 

Kunais at Rank 0.  It was the strongest weapon in my arsenal since it was born.  It wrecked everything since the beginning.  Maybe half of everything in the above list occurred since the start.

 

95% of the above list occurred when I got my Kunais to Rank 4 so I could install Rank 4 Hornet Strike +100% damage.  

 

Rank 8 Kunais were then upgraded with Rank 4 Gunsliger +60% Fire Rate.  Everything died.

 

 

 

AFAIK, my Kunais out-do anyone with Despairs.  People I meet using Despairs have reload issues and the projectile itself seems different.  I know they do higher base damage, but they're NOTHING compared to my Kunais.

 

 

Wonder what they'd be like if I super-charged them with max Hornet Strike and higher ranked Elemental Damage mods, and a maxed multishot mod.

Edited June 2, 2013 by GoatGodJohn

[Kotoso]

^be warned, there is a bug that won't let you slide attack quickly with kunai/despair.

 

The damage is fine, but I don't understand the fire rate/10 shot clip thing. All of the knife ammo is in a holster. The mag/clip/drum is your warframe's hand(s).

 

You can hold up to 2 knives at a time: 2 shots, then reload? Hopefully the mag size mod doesn't let this round up to 3 for weirdness.

 

or

 

Do a Paris sort of thing, without the charge shots, lower the fire rate drastically.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Kotoso

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

The damage is fine, but I don't understand the fire rate/10 shot clip thing. All of the knife ammo is in a holster. The mag/clip/drum is your warframe's hand(s).

 

You can hold up to 2 knives at a time: 2 shots, then reload? Hopefully the mag size mod doesn't let this round up to 3 for weirdness.

 

 

 

Actually, that sounds like a great idea.

 

And about that bug, it seems to slow down the fire rate of my Dual Ethers randomly, but I can still sword dash really god damn fine almost that it's never a problem to begin with.  I am a slipping, sliding, lethal speed demon ninja.

 

 

/No swag intended.

Edited June 2, 2013 by GoatGodJohn

[Toom1275]

I'd support them being semiauto - it'd make it a bit easier to stop after throwing 9 of them in order to prevent the reload bug.

[BenHoliday]

I've been using Kunais since the 2nd day of their release.

 

This is what I have to say.

I've had them since then, but haven't used them exclusively because I wanted to try the Dual Broncos first.

 

But since I already have Barrel Diffusion, I don't even need to max the Kunai for them to outperform my other weapons. Right now I'm making good use of the Kunai being OP and simply leveling primary and melee weapons I will never use to gain mastery rank. It would be nice if the Kunai get a re-work (for those who can't stand the word nerf,) so eventually there's a reason to use the primary or melee weapons I've already maxed and potato'd.

[Lady_Khaos]

I got an idea of a solution. Both of them are stealth weapons, which require one shot, one kill most enemies. But fire rate is too high for something with that damage. Game says paris is 225 plat, while Kunai is 175. However, kunai has more than triple fire rate and ten times the clip size. Id say, lower the accuracy and fire rate, and also increase the dropping motion until it can only kill something 30m tops. Throwing weapons shouldnt reach very far anyway.

 

What I know its a stealth weapon, so nerfing damage sounds bad. I also have an idea, how about making clip to 5 and making it semi auto, but charge attacks can throw all the rest of the kunai left in the "clip". Damage per kunai needs to be lowered I think since 5x45 is kinda making it more OP

 

p/s: nerfing accuracy would also cause long range throwing to be ineffective. Well, you dont have sights for throwing stuff right?

 

 

 

The reason you hold 10 is because you are HOLDING them. 5 per hand.

[--GOOLOO_GOOLOO_GOOLOO--]

The reason you hold 10 is because you are HOLDING them. 5 per hand.

 

Yet we only see one in each hand and the fact that the position of the hands indicates the grip of one knife.

Edited June 2, 2013 by GoatGodJohn

[LazyKnight]

Kunai and Despair should NOT BE treated as the same.

 

Kunai are higher damage than despair. I also do not think they can be balanced without instigating rage they have a different problems than the Despair.

 

Kunai(armor ignore) is a pure kill everything flawless weapon that is a pure upgrade over Akbolto class weapon. I agree it is the best overall dps out of the two throwing knives. I have no idea how they could even tackle this weapon without rage. It would likely be safer just to buff up the bolto class or something. It is a weapon no easy fix to make it challenging other than removing its armor ignore and making it lackluster.

 

Despair(armor piercing) is just like the fang and has clear strengths and weakness. It will murder thing that are weak to armor piecing damage but will do weak damage to light armored units. This only needs weapon to lowering its rate of fire making so its used a precision weapon for heavy units.  Does not need a nerf hammer just a small tweak to firing speed.

 

.

Edited June 2, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Aerensiniac]

So in the last livestream they mentioned a lot of people are asking them to be nerfed, I can see where they are coming from, but I just hope DE doesn't overnerf like they so often do. Kunai and Despair are great weapons, but are harder to use than other and the blades seem to be even slower than bolts. They are weapons that actually need a bit of skill to use, not much should be changed.

All DE needs to do is remove one of the V slots. It would make sense if they became semi-automatic, though I'm not sure if that would make them slower or faster (and they shouldn't be faster).

 

I dont really understand all the calls on the kunai. Yes it does good damage for an offhand weapon. What you do not count is that there are other offhand weapons with similarly good performance and dps. Take the Lex for instance. One of the most accurate weapons in the game, also one of the most heavy damaging ones. Good fire rate too, but admittedly longer reload.

Never the less, compared to the kunai its just slightly worse.

 

Also: DE could do everyone a favor and test their god @(*()$ weapons before selling them out.

You put a god damned 800 platinum pack into the shop, sold it with the bow being borderline useless compared to other weapons, and now you are going to nerf the kunai?

Do you honestly want to scare away everybody who ever pays you?

2 of my friends dropped the game when you decided to nerf banshee in the ground after waiting 2+ months with it.

 

Could you please figure out what the **** you want in the game and TEST it before selling it for actual MONEY?

Your attitude is completely counterproductive.

Do tell please who will ever give you their money once you have screwed them over by nerfing something they bought with irl currency. Cause i can tell you 8 people right away who said that they are never ever going to give you an another penny.

 

So once more: Please THINK.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[Enomilli]

I'm guessing that they'll wait until the sales of the stalker pack hit a nice low before they buff Reaper Prime to where it deserves to be and nerf Kunai/Despair to the ground.

Not into the ground.