Anybody Feel Pity For Players Who Enjoy Cheesing A Lot?

[Eftycchia]

Hence why my clan is comprised out of people who never use the best way of playing the game. Plus they don't use Rhino religiously.

 

But to be honest i feel bad for people who desperately seek the most efficient way of playing the game every single time even though the setup doesn't matter for the mission type and difficulty arc. Like that one guy who asks for Frost for a Lv. 1-3 INFESTED Defense for only 5 waves.

 

 

[Stefe]

I kind of feel like all of the cheesing is due to how much of the rewards are locked behind SOME kind of wall (build timers, drop chance, mastery rank requirements, climbing that Forma ladder, etc.) After hitting these walls time and time again, it just kind of feels like, "... yeah. I think I've had enough."

 

But at the same time, these walls are what DE needs to keep us busy while they're slaving away at the office. Without them, players would reach the end game with nothing to do -- which would ultimately result in them moving onto greener pastures.

[Yetman]

Hey, I'm all for fun gameplay and playing for that alone, independently from rewards and achievements.

 

But the game sets itself to these kind of play styles. Repetition is the only thing Warframe has after a player has experienced the combat system and seen all available tilesets and modes (with variation coming from frame skills and weapons) , though some players are introduced to the game or are faster to "give up" to these shortcuts by veteran players.

But I agree that to some point imo it demeans the work put into it and the potential to just have fun.

 

On its core design however, given how the loot system works and randomly generated rewards have their chances weighted against players, efficient use of time is the only thing they can do to roll the dices faster.

And after standing at a roulette table and failing 50 times in a row, sitting in a comfortable chair at a slot machine is a far more enticing way to gamble.

[BlizzardBlade]

If they enjoy cheesing why should I pity them? they are enjoying the game and thus no reason to feel sorry for them. If a player has fun playing with OP loadouts  I'm not one to argue on what their concept of fun is.

[BlueFalcon13]

My goto frame and build is a max efficiency RB build (all stats slightly above 100%, but efficency is 175% range is 145%) with the RB augment. If stabbing every single enemy I kill is cheesing, then I am quite happy doing so.

Then again, that isn't meta, but it is the best way to make melee viable against lvl 100 mobs :)

[Renegade343]

If they enjoy cheesing why should I pity them?

I pity them for not trying out other things. Now, I might be biased (or wise beyond my years, I cannot tell the difference sometimes), but I feel that this society now seems to enjoy sticking to one thing and not leave out of the comfort zones. 

[Lost_Cartographer]

Once an enemy can kill you in one shot, the only way to win is cheese.

There's a distinct difference between abusing mechanics to hyper-grind affinity, and then being FORCED to do something just to survive.  Endless modes are somewhere in between of course - forced to cheese just to survive, but people only go that far to get the most out of their key.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Littleman88

[Krymanol]

First of all I just play the game because that's why I'm here.  Just like I don't look at people in real life and judge them based on how they live, I don't judge them in how they choose to play a game. 

 

Basically we play games for entertainment and what is or isn't entertaining to others has nothing to do with me.   You pay your money, spend your time and enjoy playing games the way you like.   Having pity on someone because they don't play a game the way I think it should be played is not good pity.   It's simply sitting in judgment of others unfairly. 

 

Also, I'd like to add that weapons, frames and games don't play themselves.   So regardless if someone chooses to use something in a game that makes it seem cheesy, they still have to work for what they achieve just like I do.   The only difference is they choose to take the easy path and I choose to take which ever one suits my needs at the time.    The most important thing to keep in mind is that this is "OUR" entertainment.  The way each of us choose to play the game should not reflect how we feel about how others choose to play it.    Otherwise you are just discriminating against people because they don't follow beliefs that you do.  It's this very mindset that has the world at each others throats.   We are so busy pointing fingers and judging people because they choose to do things in ways we don't believe that we let it fester into hate and ultimate we take action in some way or form.   So it's never a good path and I refuse to sit here in judgment of another player and have pity for them or anything else just because they play a game in a manner that does not adhere to my beliefs and personal feelings.

 

 

At the end of the day, it's a game, nothing more.   If a game was a job that affected peoples lives or my own, then that's another story but this is something we do for entertainment.   Nobody has the right to stand in judgment or tell another what should or shouldn't be entertaining for them.    So I just can't have pity for people choosing to play the game the way they like no matter how much I may disagree with their methods.    To disagree just means to me that I'll choose not to take the same path because I probably don't find it entertaining.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Krymanol

[AM-Bunny]

For starters, where exactly do you draw the line between 'cheesing' and 'efficient playing'?

[Renegade343]

For starters, where exactly do you draw the line between 'cheesing' and 'efficient playing'?

Trivial. Efficient playing is when the player is willing to explore other methods even when finding the most efficient method(s). Cheesing is when the player is not all that willing to explore other methods after finding the most efficient method(s). 

[AM-Bunny]

Trivial. Efficient playing is when the player is willing to explore other methods even when finding the most efficient method(s). Cheesing is when the player is not all that willing to explore other methods after finding the most efficient method(s). 

 

Pfff, I always keep an open mind about tactics, and I can tell you I've cheesed with the best of them. The veteran cheeser is always on the lookout for cheesier methods.

 

They just prefer to make the most efficient use of their time, which is respectable. I would never say I pity them.

[Renegade343]

They just prefer to make the most efficient use of their time, which is respectable. I would never say I pity them.

And barely try anything else, if at all?

 

I pity them for not trying out off the road items, or combinations that are not as efficient, because a good chunk of hidden gems are on those paths. 

[Guest]

I'm not sure about cheesing...but for example...I've been thinking of Nekros, Ignis, Furis with augment to farm infested-related resources and I did it last week....does that count as cheesing?  And I love my Valkyr which I use it very often for the high armor and high mobility and life leech... does that count as cheesing? I'm not sure where to draw the line as cheesing and personal play style... I love to find the tanky ways...sacrificing everything else to enhance defense thus making most things very easy to me... I'm not sure if that is within the cheesing area or not....

[BlizzardBlade]

I pity them for not trying out other things. Now, I might be biased (or wise beyond my years, I cannot tell the difference sometimes), but I feel that this society now seems to enjoy sticking to one thing and not leave out of the comfort zones. 

Then that's not pitying them because they like to cheese that's just pitying them for not trying new things that they may find fun or leaving their comfort zones , anyways if they enjoy cheesing then all the power to them , if they don't they will surely try something else till they find something fun.

[Renegade343]

Then that's not pitying them because they like to cheese that's just pitying them for not trying new things that they may find fun or leaving their comfort zones ,

That is what I literally said in the original post all along. 

 

anyways if they enjoy cheesing then all the power to them , if they don't they will surely try something else till they find something fun.

That does not alter the fact that I can feel pity towards them. I am not stopping them, if the original post is of any indication. 

[Krymanol]

And barely try anything else, if at all?

 

I pity them for not trying out off the road items, or combinations that are not as efficient, because a good chunk of hidden gems are on those paths. 

 

While I agree, because I'm the type of player who does off the wall types of builds and methods of playing a character in every game I play, I have to say that trying other things once you've found what makes the game fun for you is irrelevant to most players.    Time is the most important thing to people in general and between work/school, kids, spouse, family, friends and home life responsibilities, many people just don't have the time to invest in trying off the wall, alternatives to being efficient or playing a game.  

 

So yeah, in choosing the most efficiency for their time at the expense of trying anything else, is more important than trying anything else.   Some people just don't have the time (or desire) to turn a game into a chore or second job.

[Krymanol]

That is what I literally said in the original post all along. 

 

That does not alter the fact that I can feel pity towards them. I am not stopping them, if the original post is of any indication. 

 

But see that's the problem.   The definition of pity is having deep sorrow for someone who's struggling or suffering misfortune to some degree (at least close enough to it's meaning anyway).   But if the player is having fun and not struggling or anything in their mind, you having pity for them really isn't pity for them, it's you standing in judgment of them because they aren't trying new things or doing things that you "THINK" they might enjoy.   But you don't know if they've already found what they enjoy after having tried other things.    So your pity is based in assumption, not facts and honestly that makes your pity misplaced in my opinion.

[MopUpCrewman]

INB4 Lock.

This post must be watched by several community moderators (if not all) at once, seeing as how two already responded.

 

On a more related note,

I personally don't care if someone "cheeses". If you're good at your job then I'm alright with it.

[Kiyryite]

I just feel pity for anyone who goes on the forums. (like you and I)

 

The forums are the most cancerous part of warframe.

[Ziegrif]

There is no solid reason to not use the best possible tools that the developers give the players.

 

Other than avoiding boredom.

[Thebel]

I'm concerned that you feel so special that you need to pity people in a game for playing differently than you.

They are choosing to not artificially handicap themselves to enjoy the game.

Might as well complain about ever having a frost for defence since that can completely trivialize the mission.

[BlizzardBlade]

That is what I literally said in the original post all along. 

 

That does not alter the fact that I can feel pity towards them. I am not stopping them, if the original post is of any indication. 

Sorry I kind of only read the first part of your post and skimmed the 2nd , but in my opinion I just think as long as they have fun I don't really pity them , I would encourage them to try something new but if they enjoy it I don't really have anything to feel sorry about but that's just me ;P.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

I'm not sure why I should feel sorry for some one who is enjoying playing a video game? Isn't that the point of them?

[DTSWaRDawG]

Efficiency.

 

I'm not gonna lie to myself.

If there's a faster way of doing something, I'll do it that way UNLESS there's something about it that doesn't fit my playstyle.

 

There are things in the game I don't like and I think could use a tweak (*cough* energy restores *cough*), but until I'm forced to deal with a mission without them, I'm going to continue to use it.

 

Again, efficiency.

It's just illogical for me to intentionally handicap myself.

 

Is that cheesing?

I don't care, honestly.

 

I call it minmaxing.

It's up to DE to make sure things aren't too easy or too hard for some setups (which, admittedly, they're failing at).

This could not have been said any better lol when I want something, I want it now. If I can increase my odds of getting something or upgrading something by using something that clears the mission in 5 mins compared to not using it and it taking 8+, then I am going to do it.

Efficiency is of utmost importance to me. Also minmaxing is just fun to me since I'm a numbers guy, so yeah.

Edited December 9, 2015 by DTSWaRDawG

[Coaa]

Well we are talking about a game that revolves around time to farm resources and currency while incorporating real life money into the mix. Any time this happens you will have an immense amount of people trying to find the quickest easiest way to do things.

 

Now couple in the fact that Forma, reactors or any of the other upgrade items that make things even better aren't readily available all the time for free, it's no wonder people will try to go for the absolute meta first and then maybe long down the road when they have stock-piles, start to expand and play with things.

 

Games like this almost always have the majority flock to ease before fun because time is money. Once they hit the wall of having most items, only then do they stray and try other things. It's a great game and really fun for me, but it's a fault of the game itself. If forma were more plentiful, quicker / easier to attain then i'm sure there would be a ton more diversity. I can understand the current system for acquiring them for when the game first launched, but now that there is a sheer staggering amount of weapons, there is no point in having them as rare / time consuming as they are still. Reactors yes, they can stay how they are. But considering most weapons need 4+ forma to even get to a point where it's usable in anything considered higher tier....yeah.

 

To expand on the forma subject which i think is a root problem in weapon diversity and people trying things out. Lets say you spam void missions to earn all of your forma blueprints to build for free and have all the resources stocked up to build each of them. The new weapon you want to try out comes with no polarity slots but you like how it feels and know it'll take 5-6 forma. Seems you can ONLY build 1 forma at a time and have to wait each time. Thats a full 6 days of building forma non stop just to try out a new weapon, not including level it between each forma. An entire week of time just to try a single new weapon.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Coaa