[Spoiler] Wait.... Who Wore What Warframe?

[SilentMobius]

I like to think the revelation created MANY, VERY gender confused Tenno

Assuming such things are even an issue any more.

[Amazerath]

After the Second Dream they do, before that point we have no indication they remembered anything.

Every single Weapon and Warframe we pick up we needed to re-build affinity with.

 

Imagine being in a coma that gave you amnesia, It's distinctly possible that you wouldn't begin to recover until you woke from the coma. In the same way I think the Tenno only started remembering _after_ they were released from the reservoir.

 

Let's keep it simple. What you're saying is that you think the tenno had no access to memories while dreaming but then those memories returned after they woke up? If that's it then yes, I agree. I thought "pre-cryo" was referring to the orokin era and that confused me.

 

In a lucid dream you can influence the events of the dream, at least that is my limited experience.

Usually when you realise you are dreaming you wake up but if you can remain in the dream yo should be able to influence it, I've managed it twice myself.

 

My point was that lucid or not dreams are not real. If you're aware of your dream then you're aware that what happens inside this dream is also not real. Therefore, you do not question what you see or what you do. Everything just works.

 

For this reason, it would not make sense for the operator to question anything that happened during their Second Dream.

[Omnimorph]

My point was that lucid or not dreams are not real. If you're aware of your dream then you're aware that what happens inside this dream is also not real. Therefore, you do not question what you see or what you do. Everything just works.

 

For this reason, it would not make sense for the operator to question anything that happened during their Second Dream.

 

I think you're absolutely right that they wouldn't question, but not for the reason you're suggesting. 

 

Let's distinguish between:-

 

1) us (people who know what their real situation is) having a) a dream, and b) a lucid dream, on the one hand, and

 

2) Tenno (people who don't know what their real situation is) having a) a dream and b) a lucid dream.

 

With 1) we know we're dreaming not while we're dreaming (otherwise we would be lucid dreaming) but when we wake up - then we say "ah it was just a dream".  But while we're dreaming, there's no indication of real or not real - it's all just stuff happening that we accept with our somewhat rudimentary consciousness.  With lucid dreaming, we wake up in the dream, so we regain some of our normal consciousness, and we can control things (where we move in the dream, and to some extent, we have a sort of "magic power" to alter things in the dream).  But the reason we think "ah this is a dream", when we wake up in the dream and become lucid, is precisely because we have this background knowledge (which is activated with that normal consciousness) of our real situation.

 

Contrast this with the hypothetical Tenno situation.  They don't know they're dreaming, and what they are in is a lucid dream situation straight off the bat (there's no intermediate ordinary dream for them, where they have fuzzy consciousness and no sense of control).  So they have that normal consciousness, and sense of control of what they're doing (just like would in a lucid dream).  But they don't have the background knowledge that "it's just a dream" (which is what makes us aware that we're "waking up" in the dream, when we lucid dream).

 

So the reason they accept stuff in the dream is because it just seems real to them and it's all they know, not because "it's just a dream - what the heck, go along for the ride" (as we, with our background knowledge might).

Edited December 16, 2015 by Omnimorph

[Liv.Somik]

​"Dream, not of what you are... but of what you want to be." Margulis.

[Amazerath]

[...]

But they don't have the background knowledge that "it's just a dream" (which is what makes us aware that we're "waking up" in the dream, when we lucid dream).

[...]

 

Omni, I think you're making things more complicated then they need to be. The definition of "lucid dream" is "a dream in which one is aware that one is dreaming". Awareness of the dream is the condition necessary for the dream to be considered "lucid". If the awareness cannot be achieved then the dream cannot be called "lucid".

 

So even though I understand the logic behind the different backgrounds, I still don't think it factors in. Lotus said the dream was lucid and to me that is the same as saying "the tenno were aware that they were dreaming".

 

Also, "what the heck, go along for the ride" would imply that the operators didn't really care about their dream. My opinion is quite the opposite of that. I believe the tenno were using their dreams as a tool to seek some sort of fulfillment. Perhaps in order to fill their empty souls. Perhaps in order to forget who they really are and what they have been through.

[Khazid_Hae]

So more of a cyborg in the same sense that a Terminator T-800 is a Cyborg (really an android but the living flesh component makes it less android and more cyborg).

 

In the case of the Warframe armor then you have a highly integrated machine using an organic component. The hardware side of things comprise the armor, shields, and sensors with the mods as some sort of scalable interface between the surrogate inside and its shell. The wetware component to the armor then would be necessary for transference and as a conduit for the operator in the form of special abilities unique to each frame and the focus abilities once a stronger connection is gained at the end of the Second Dream quest.

 

That makes me wonder how things are divided up in the frame? Is the surrogate a fairly rudimentary life form? As Alad mentions they do not have eyes, perhaps literally so as the sensors in the armor are the eyes and ears of the warframe and interface via some sort of simple brain that houses a basic consciousness that is subsumed or was subsumed by the operator prior to the events in the Second Dream.

 

This basic consciousness might handle house keeping chores like keeping itself fed as well as maintenance on the frame when the operator is occupying another warframe and in the case of a warframe subject to immediate transference the basic consciousness might also cover functions like mobility so that the operator doesn't have to spend unnecessary time on things like walking.    

[tnccs215]

I like to think the revelation created MANY, VERY gender confused Tenno

Doubt it. They changed warframes like you change clothing. Since they remembered nothing after waking up, gender has no meaning for them (because they simply didn't learn about it). If you can be both sexes, than any difference between each person dissapears. When they wake up, now knowing to be children. They still don't know about gender (and might even not know about sex, if they keep on that chair forever more and don't get naked), so they'll keep living their life has they did.

There is also a misconception of the OP, regarding the subjectivity of what is "normal". The OP is admitting that the tenno would

1)know about sexes;

2)thing that every mind can only have one body.

However, this things are learned. They wake up, not remembering anything, and are basically told they can change body (probably through an instantaneous moment that might feel like quickly falling asleep and waking up). Sure, some might see it has odd, but if you didn't know you weren't supposed not to be able to do it, you simply accept it. It becomes normal, unquestionable.

Same thing with sexes. They don't know they exist. They probably might never get to, since they only meet through warframes, and prepubescent people have little to no difference between sexes. And if you don't even know about sex, how will you know that, in some societies, you are expected to behave in a certain way (I.e. Gender). For them, they are all people. Some more cold, some more empathetic, some more sensible, some more courageous, but there is no divisory line. Because they are all equal, since they have (or they used to have) no unique body.

Of course, I am admitting tenno only now are remembering a few things, none of them related to the culture they lived in. And honestly, even if they start to remember about it, we don't even know how the orokin dealed with it. Has far as we know, they might very well have ditched the concept of "different sex, different mind" completely.

Edited December 17, 2015 by tnccs215

[Mak_Gohae]

Doubt it. They changed warframes like you change clothing. Since they remembered nothing after waking up, gender has no meaning for them (because they simply didn't learn about it). If you can be both sexes, than any difference between each person dissapears. When they wake up, now knowing to be children. They still don't know about gender (and might even not know about sex, if they keep on that chair forever more and don't get naked), so they'll keep living their life has they did.

There is also a misconception of the OP, regarding the subjectivity of what is "normal". The OP is admitting that the tenno would

1)know about sexes;

2)thing that every mind can only have one body.

However, this things are learned. They wake up, not remembering anything, and are basically told they can change body (probably through an instantaneous moment that might feel like quickly falling asleep and waking up). Sure, some might see it has odd, but if you didn't know you weren't supposed not to be able to do it, you simply accept it. It becomes normal, unquestionable.

Same thing with sexes. They don't know they exist. They probably might never get to, since they only meet through warframes, and prepubescent people have little to no difference between sexes. And if you don't even know about sex, how will you know that, in some societies, you are expected to behave in a certain way (I.e. Gender). For them, they are all people. Some more cold, some more empathetic, some more sensible, some more courageous, but there is no divisory line. Because they are all equal, since they have (or they used to have) no unique body.

Of course, I am admitting tenno only now are remembering a few things, none of them related to the culture they lived in. And honestly, even if they start to remember about it, we don't even know how the orokin dealed with it. Has far as we know, they might very well have ditched the concept of "different sex, different mind" completely.

 

The question mainly is what where they told?

Did they not see other people and how they were different from each other?

Did they not see that the warframes look different from each other?

 

 

Unless the answer is complete brainwashing to the point that their thoughts are only of combat, it's would be really, really, hard for this stuff NOT to come up.

[YasaiTsume]

I'm Saryn.

[Mak_Gohae]

I like to think the revelation created MANY, VERY gender confused Tenno

 

Yeah, we really, really need more lore when it comes to this.

The game needs more lore in general.