Datamined Mission Rewards Are Bad. If True, Please Change Them.

[Kynian]

This is true - more rares in the rare pool make an individual less frequent. There is some caution on our part because I think squad/lobby trading will reduce the grind pain of a particular item type. We *do* organize Mod drops by faction somewhat but I'm looking for an example game that you think does it right. Fusion and Credits generally means your junk can be put toward a subset of desired items.

 

Do you have a positive counter example from the grind-fest one?

@Steve:

Truth be told, Steve, almost all games have grinding in them. Keep bashing them repeatedly until you get something you want out of it is soething common to games. But the manner in wich different games do this is different. Grinding exists in them all (except on say, platform games I suppose, and even then there's some). All MMOs I know of at least. I do feel that the "rares" in this game, specially mods, are a bit too rare. As in bashing my head to walls rare. (no, I'm not literally bashing my head, worry not kind sir.)

That said, I will name a few games that had some features I liked, and it may serve as something for you guys, even if it's just food for thought. I like the way loot is given on Borderlands and Borderlands 2, although it is radically different (and mostly randomly generated I think). Might not be applicable to warframe at all though. But the simple fact that whenever a boss is killed you get a mountain of loot is something fun.

Another is Guild Wars 2. Is it grind-heavy? Yes it is, like most MMOs are. It is, however not nearly as bad as any korean grindfest, unless you want those epic legendary items. Still, they have some daily missions wich are quite fun, and provide different, richer gameplay, suggesting you to do things you normally wouldn't even think of doing for the sake of completing said objective, and then rewards you for it. There are scheduled world bosses that give guaranteed good loot on some time intervals.

It's a lot less bad than the korean grindfest Ragnarok Online that could give you everything at once, or never ever. I suppose that is also RNG for you.

What is most desirable are different mechanics in wich loot can be attained, along with a proper "rarification balance", even if ever so slight. That goes for mats (control module comes to mind for some people. I personally never had a problem with it), mods, maybe even stalker visits (God knows I'm waiting for him on every game like a kid is waiting for santa claus by the fireplace on christmas, and everytime my cube fires his gun and makes those flickering shadows due to gunshot I think it's him -____-. Cruel cruel RNG).

Another game that pleases me quite a bit is one you seem to be basing yourselves on - Diablo franchise. The main difference is that, in Diablo, you have ways of improving you odds of getting something good and rare, and even if what you get is junk to you (although it may be rare), it can be valuable to someone else - so they have an Auction House (on D3 anyway), open trading... you can somehow make it useful. Not to mention those games all have a HUGE, HUUUGE array of things you may get. Warframe simply does not have enough items to make a viable use of a Diablo-esque system.

As it stands right now, only way we can make "junk mods" useful is by fusing them into heavy duty mods, like Hornet Strike or Serration. But then we can't "downgrade mods" so, at the same time, we can't really upgrade them. Not unless we have Forma to polarize our slots. But Forma is ultra duper almost korean-grindfest rare, required in (at the moment) humongous amounts on the dojo, and also in clan weapon recipies, from what I read in wiki (dont have the weapons myself yet, my clan is small - aiming on the shadow tier you mentioned in U8 related work. Btw, I really hope you can refund some mats to us when these tiers go live, otherwise we'll be poor broke for quite a while).

So in short, we can't find Forma because it's so frigging rare. Even if on Void it is not as rare, getting a key to get to the Void is problematic, so that's a double RNG jump. RNG to get a key, then RNG to get Forma. So what's left is to buy Forma.

That makes it a big paywall. I know you guys worked a lot to get U8 going, and you have all been doing a great job, but this one was a bit much imho. As you can see, I got some plat - Hunter Founder, considering going to Master. But I absolutely hate the idea of paying for simple game advancement and access to content - double that for a F2P. I'm all in for supporting the games, but there are a lot of better ways to do it. I'm a hardcore gamer and I'm not being rewarded for it at all. Or so it feels, maybe I'm wrong.

A small suggestion that I propose (and several users have before me) is to remove warframe skill mods altogether from loot tables on planets and systems above a certain level. Most suggested level 10, whereas I would suggest making it not drop at all on plantes above level 20 or 25, at least. Maybe more.

I also gave some suggestions for defense missions, I hope you saw them. Won't post it here because this post is already way too long, but it's one this very same thread, some posts ago.

Thanks for your time and attention. I have faith in you guys.

Edit: added Steve's quote.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Kynian

[DirkDeadeye]

This is always the problem in f2p games. The beta phase and release is not black and white.

 

I didn't pay anything into Blacklight, they actually included real money currency in the beta phases to see how people would spend it. Pay wall was down when the game was finished..I don't understand why those werent set in place.

 

I don't see why founder packs wouldn't grant MORE currency during testing phases, regular testers just get a certain amount and when the game launches, after the wipe they get the amount specified when they purchased it.

 

At least then you're not skimming people before the game is even fleshed out. I mean, variances like this, in an enviroment where people can and do pay hundreds of dollars. Is just irresponsible at the least. Nobody should be taken for anything out of pocket until the game is done.

 

I don't give a S#&$ what moniker you slap on a game, alpha, beta, founder release. You don't charge for an experience that can flip upside down.

[plznohurtme]

One thing more related to specific loot than necessarily drop rates that I've thought for a while should be addressed is drop rates in higher level areas. We finally got credit scaling, and experience scales (although pretty low it does still scale) have been in since the beginning of the game. I know that there are generic tiers as enemies level up their drops change, but I'd like to see more specific rate increases for higher level content. It makes sense that the drop rates should be better in Pluto than they are in Sedna (also maybe more mission types in higher level areas with item rewards).

Another thing that could be done is the end of mission rewards themselves could be scaled with the planets/enemy level being played against. For me at least the biggest problem regarding all the loot in the game is that there simply isn't a "better" place to get it... right now it's just a matter of farming the lowest level place that drops what you need to get it done faster. Material quantities is yet another thing that could be scaled up to balance out the playerbase more.

I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with RNG or with the basic system that DE employs for Warframe. I just think that there needs to be more to it and much more variance so that the players can choose from any way to handle things.

[Meepsauce]

We understand this is a beta, we understand things wont be perfect. But when there's potential money on the line and given the nature and context in-game platinum is used for, we would certainly like cleaner implementations of these new items. Extremely low drop rates for said items will only encourage purchases from people who don't realise the odds are scaled far against them, as we saw with the void keys. That will make people unhappy.

 

This for many is more of an issue in principle than it is as a game mechanic. I'm sitting on my void keys knowing I cannot get Master Thief currently. But what if I didn't know this, what if I wasn't so pessimistic or hesitant. It's the potential to sink so much into the impossible that we find scariest here.

 

First step would be to clean up the tables. Make sure that players can eventually get something good. Who knows, maybe you could adjust drop rate weight based on what drops people have received more often, or a token system could actually solve this for good. You have a similar implementation on the Cronus blueprint that does the inverse (not complaining, just mentioning the opposite has been done once).

 

You could even add mods as part of this token system. It might be scary to allow players to get a thunderbolt mod easier, since I'm aware it is a big incentive as part of the 1k platinum bundle. But if it took 10 tokens that's a few void runs. Players that want thunderbolt might want this alternative since void keys are available and group runs can net multiple players tokens. That's one less player whining about how he's wanted <x> mod really bad but he hasn't found it over 200 hours and there's no trading system, etc. This too would encourage void key purchases so people can farm up what they want through this system. It's the "pay to save time" mechanic at work. I realise you have to make money.

 

The persistent issue, the core issue in my opinion is not actually too big. It is rather that the chances for the things they want is too little, and the time investment can be very unforgiving. If a player can certainly reach his goal he will be much happier. If a player has done 200 void runs and he's not even certain he'll get what he wants, and he knows he's not any closer to his goal statistically, you can be sure he's getting frustrated, angry and bored. Many games offer a way out of this, through a group roll system on items or by simply having the rare item trade-able. Since the trade system is a no-go for a while - and rightfully so because it is a big undertaking. I would say the token system would be the best system until those commitments are made.

 

There's a lot of criticism, a lot of complaining, a lot of whining. I think we certainly need to clear the waters and focus on how to mitigate or fix these problems, merely stating them through frustration gets nowhere, and it doesn't make it any easier on you guys. But I think the fact people are adamant to express this shows they don't want to see this game 'take a fall'. They don't want to just drop the game and forget about it, because there is something wonderful underneath these issues we build a consensus on.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Meepsauce

[[DE]Steve]

Hey! DE_Steve.

 

I have a question that I'd like answer.

 

Would you call your game a grinding game?

 

Like you have a circular grinder and you working on some rough metal?

[Sideway]

Glad to see you here, Steve.

 

RNG alone is frustrating... and all it needs is a little twist to be good: Item fusing/mixing/crafting/whatever would be nice if executed properly. It works in many other games (TF2 is the best example. Perfect mix of RNG and Crafting = You are almost never frustrated).

 

Salvage Common mods for Tier 1 Mats, Uncommon for Tier 2 and Rare for Tier 3, now:

 

X Tier 1 Mats = one random Common Mod

X Tier 2 Mats = one random Uncommon Mod

X Tier 3 Mats = one Random Rare Mod

 

Special Option: "Blueprint: All In" - You sacrifice all your Mats to get the Jackpot (Random Multishot). Every mats used in the process will increase the % chance of getting it (for example - Common +0.1%, Uncommon +0.5%, Rare +1%). So you blow your entire Backpack after 100 hours of unlucky Grind and BAM - Split Chamber Chance = ~90%

 

Every craft/salvage could cost you a little... so there is always something to do with useless Credits.

And after these famous 200 Hours Played you will most likely craft your Multishots if you weren't lucky enough to loot them.

 

In the end... RNG is not a problem when you got all important mods - but then it's all about the Void Keys. And I understand the fact that you need to feed your families so we can simply buy these keys... but then F2P'ers are frustrated because it's next to impossible to get Tier 3 Key.

 

Suggestion: More cosmetic items. If Valve can get rich only because of the Vintage Hats - so could you. And maybe then - when cosmetic items will generate enough income - then there will be no need to limit the content for the F2P players so much. More Void Keys = Less whining = More Hats = More fun = More money = More content... wow... did I just solved all your problems?

 

If yes then you're welcome.

[[DE]Steve]

Glad to see you here, Steve.

 

RNG alone is frustrating... and all it needs is a little twist to be good: Item fusing/mixing/crafting/whatever would be nice if executed properly. It works in many other games (TF2 is the best example. Perfect mix of RNG and Crafting = You are almost never frustrated).

 

Salvage Common mods for Tier 1 Mats, Uncommon for Tier 2 and Rare for Tier 3, now:

 

X Tier 1 Mats = one random Common Mod

X Tier 2 Mats = one random Uncommon Mod

X Tier 3 Mats = one Random Rare Mod

 

Special Option: "Blueprint: All In" - You sacrifice all your Mats to get the Jackpot (Random Multishot). Every mats used in the process will increase the % chance of getting it (for example - Common +0.1%, Uncommon +0.5%, Rare +1%). So you blow your entire Backpack after 100 hours of unlucky Grind and BAM - Split Chamber Chance = ~90%

 

Every craft/salvage could cost you a little... so there is always something to do with useless Credits.

And after these famous 200 Hours Played you will most likely craft your Multishots if you weren't lucky enough to loot them.

 

In the end... RNG is not a problem when you got all important mods - but then it's all about the Void Keys. And I understand the fact that you need to feed your families so we can simply buy these keys... but then F2P'ers are frustrated because it's next to impossible to get Tier 3 Key.

 

Suggestion: More cosmetic items. If Valve can get rich only because of the Vintage Hats - so could you. And maybe then - when cosmetic items will generate enough income - then there will be no need to limit the content for the F2P players so much. More Void Keys = Less whining = More Hats = More fun = More money = More content... wow... did I just solved all your problems?

 

If yes then you're welcome.

 

Thanks for you note... dunno about silly hats in WF :( but I get your point.

 

As I posted in https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/ last week I am not stonewalling on RNG. I am E3-bound but it is something I've been reading and considering and we'll try to find a less grindy solution that doesn't tank our income.

[Skeloton]

Thanks for you note... dunno about silly hats in WF :( but I get your point.

 

As I posted in https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/ last week I am not stonewalling on RNG. I am E3-bound but it is something I've been reading and considering and we'll try to find a less grindy solution that doesn't tank our income.

i understand, i dont mind rng but not when everything seems to be determined by it. I've done about 70 runs on hek and ive yet to get the trinity systems i need, least it feels like 70. I used to laugh it off, saying the rngod disliked me for being the son of satan after getting aload of 666 crit hits with dread. However my interest is waning (being impatient teen isnt helping lol).

Ps have you done anything to stalkers drop rates? I think i used to be lucky with him but now i got dread im feeling very unlucky.

Pps potato alerts, offtopic i know, but its nine days since the last one....almost 10 did the influx of new loot mess it up?

 

Edit: I would prefer if the RNG was restrained. As in each faction has its specific drops and/or more common drops becoming rarer/non existent in the highest lvls.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Skeloton

[rhoenix]

First - Steve and Rebecca, thank you both for posting in this thread. It helps to see that the DE team is examining this issue, and looking for ways to try making things better.

I've seen discussions in the past about changing the Alert system, and the system by which a player gets mods. Perhaps adding a good chance for an Alert to give a rare material for that region when offered, plus a greater chance for the more interesting items. After all - if you have an Alert mission, you've already gone over that territory at least once.

Another idea I had a while ago was changing to a Research-based system for Alerts, wherein one would receive and save up a new form of currency to purchase the blueprints for rare items outright, once you had enough.

As for mission rewards specifically, my request would be to simply remove all the single-use items from all the mission rewards tables - except the Void Keys, of course. That alone should help the chances of the rest.

Edited June 3, 2013 by rhoenix

[plznohurtme]

Thanks for you note... dunno about silly hats in WF :( but I get your point.

 

As I posted in https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/ last week I am not stonewalling on RNG. I am E3-bound but it is something I've been reading and considering and we'll try to find a less grindy solution that doesn't tank our income.

I'd like to think that you ladies and gents at DE could do something token/less rng on a small scale the way you did the Glaive with alert/plat only. It seems to me that on a limited scale something more reliable to acquire would definitely make sense and shouldn't tank incomes across the board.

[CharginTarge]

 

Open Kimono: we're doing it they way you guys are suggesting. Maybe we're not doing it right, have bugs in some areas (and yes, we're looking at them). Maybe we're math idiots, maybe we need to explore other systems (tokens, going out of business). There is not a hotfix coming that sets "drop rates for everything fixed" however. We'll tweak and tune but I don't agree we're on outlier on these rates.

 

Rare started at 0.5%, blah blah bell-curve distribution but we upped it radically through the months of playing this game for ourselves.

 

Binning results, 10k rolls.

 

BEFORE:

Nanospores = 2051 (20.5%)

Ferrite = 7704 (77%)

ControlModule = 245 (2.5%)

WITH ENERGYFRAGMENT:

Nanospores = 2051 (20.5%)

Ferrite = 3870 (38.7%)

ControlModule = 249 (2.5%)

EnergyFragment = 3830 (38.3%)

 

Here is the copy/pasted C++ code into Lua, and fixed for table formating and array-indexing by 1.

 

[edited for whitespace]

local COMMON = 1local UNCOMMON = 2local RARE = 3local RESERVED = 4local FLT_MIN = 1.175494351e-38local PROBABILITIES = { 0.76, 0.215, 0.025, 0 } -- normalizedlocal ItemRarity = { COMMON, UNCOMMON, RARE, RESERVED }local ItemRarityNames = { "COMMON", "UNCOMMON", "RARE", "RESERVED"}local ResourcesA = {    {        mItemType="Nanospores",        mRarity=UNCOMMON    },    {        mItemType="Ferrite",        mRarity=COMMON    },    {        mItemType="ControlModule",        mRarity=RARE    }}local ResourcesB = {    {        mItemType="Nanospores",        mRarity=UNCOMMON    },    {        mItemType="Ferrite",        mRarity=COMMON    },    {        mItemType="ControlModule",        mRarity=RARE    },    {        mItemType="EnergyFragment",        mRarity=COMMON    }}      local function Lerp(a, b, t)    return a * (1 - t) + b * t;endlocal function NormalizeProbability(t)    local countsByProb = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }    for i=1,#t do        countsByProb[t[i].mRarity] = countsByProb[t[i].mRarity] + 1.0    end    local totalProb = 0.0    for i=1,#PROBABILITIES do        if (countsByProb[i] > 0.0) then            totalProb = totalProb  + PROBABILITIES[i]        end    end    if (totalProb > 0.0) then        local normalizedProb = { 0, 0, 0, 0 }        for i=1,#PROBABILITIES do            if (countsByProb[i] > 0.0) then                normalizedProb[i] = PROBABILITIES[i] / (totalProb * countsByProb[i]);            end        end        for i=1,#t do            t[i].mProbability = normalizedProb[t[i].mRarity]        end    endendlocal function PickRandomBiasAtten(t, bias, atten, perElemAtten)    -- normalization pass based on atten/bias    local totalP = 0.0       for i=1,#t do        if perElemAtten[i] == nil then            perElemAtten[i] = 0.0        end           local biasProb = math.max(FLT_MIN, t[i].mProbability - bias)        local peA = perElemAtten[i]        if peA == nil then            peA = 0.0        end        t[i].mBiasedProb = Lerp(biasProb, 1.0 - biasProb, math.min(1.0, atten + perElemAtten[i]));        totalP = totalP + t[i].mBiasedProb;    end       if totalP > 0.0 then        for i=1,#t do            t[i].mBiasedProb = t[i].mBiasedProb / totalP        end           -- pick random        local fr = math.random()        for i=1,#t do            local biasProb = t[i].mBiasedProb            if(fr <= biasProb) then                return i            end            fr = fr - biasProb        end    end    return 1endlocal function RunTest(t, numRolls)    NormalizeProbability(t)    local resultBins = {}    for i=1,#t do        resultBins[i] = 0.0    end       for i=1,numRolls do        local idx = PickRandomBiasAtten(t, 0.0, 0.0, {})        resultBins[idx] = resultBins[idx] + 1           end       for i=1,#t do        print("" .. t[i].mItemType .. " = " .. resultBins[i] .. " (" .. math.floor(0.5 + (resultBins[i] / numRolls) * 1000.0) / 10 .. "%)")    endendlocal seed = 75732453 -- os.time()print("BEFORE:")math.randomseed(seed)RunTest(ResourcesA, 10000)math.randomseed(seed)print("WITH ENERGYFRAGMENT:")RunTest(ResourcesB, 10000)

 

 

 

I ported the code into Java and it seems to check out.

 

Since I have no idea how to format code in this forum, here's a fancy screenshot!

 

[Sideway]

Thanks for you note... dunno about silly hats in WF :( but I get your point.

 

N-No! No to silly hats! Hats = Metaphor.

 

Suit/armor parts, new alt helmets, new themed sets ("Devil" Ember, "Mammoth" Rhino, "Tesla" Volt, "Technocyte Plague" Saryn etc.) shoulders, boots, gauntlets, new textures for weapons (Orokin Era Revolver Lex - Day one purchase.), etc

[winterau]

Thanks for you note... dunno about silly hats in WF :( but I get your point.

 

As I posted in https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/ last week I am not stonewalling on RNG. I am E3-bound but it is something I've been reading and considering and we'll try to find a less grindy solution that doesn't tank our income.

 

Above is the critical point (bolding is mine) that everyone seems to be missing.

 

DE don't have a way to extract money out of the player base except through manipulative, gambling industry techniques.

 

Update 8 appears to have shown their direction forward which is to provide a pay wall that gives a minuscule chance at getting the new content. This is not forcing you to pay once or twice, it is forcing you to pay hundreds of times in order to get anything. I can't see any universe in which I would be willing to pay on average $50-$100 for Latron Prime, yet that is roughly how much it would have cost when Update 8 went live.

[Skeloton]

Above is the critical point (bolding is mine) that everyone seems to be missing.

 

DE don't have a way to extract money out of the player base except through manipulative, gambling industry techniques.

 

Update 8 appears to have shown their direction forward which is to provide a pay wall that gives a minuscule chance at getting the new content. This is not forcing you to pay once or twice, it is forcing you to pay hundreds of times in order to get anything. I can't see any universe in which I would be willing to pay on average $50-$100 for Latron Prime, yet that is roughly how much it would have cost when Update 8 went live.

yeah that kinda caught my ire...i mean eye.

[Nerokerubina]

Like you have a circular grinder and you working on some rough metal?

Well that's what it feels like when I try and do anything in your game but then, after I've worked the rough metal my face goes to the grinder.

 

Granted I love the game; just wish it was done differently. I don't think we would hate you if you took looting systems from other games and mixed it up a bit. One thing I'd enjoy are more RARE spawns like the Stalker who follow us through out the maps and have a high chance of dropping multiple rewards but the enemy itself is rare to come across.

 

In other games they have RARE spawns but are guaranteed to drop something good.

 

All I ask is you make it so I don't have to feel my face on the grinder while you say it's not.

 

Now me and a certain group of bros of war have compiled a list of an enemy that's a RARE spawn you could put into the game and she drops BPs for an Infected Warframe we can use , her list of moves, and what she should drop.

 

Infected Female Tenno

>Immune to...

- Stagger

- Knockdown

- All Elemental Mods and attacks

- Resist 35% of Melee damage

>Attacks

- Has mods of it's own, more so max Multi-Shot and Serration 

- Can reflect Sentinel shots so they hit the users Warframe instead

- 100% chance to knockdown players continuously

- Can teleport instantly to a player and grab onto them until fired upon a certain amount of time

>Abilities

- Can spawn unlimited Flesh Rollers that explode in toxic clouds; they also have a 100% chance to knockdown players

- Has an AoE Heal and Toxic ability that continuously surround her

>Special 

- She will only stay on the map until the music for her stops playing. This means that you have a limited time to kill her, just like the Stalker but if she gets away she drops nothing.

 

Make this a RARE spawn so that it has a RARE CHANCE of spawning but everything that drops on it has a 50% chance or higher to drop off of her.

 

We just solved half your problems and making this game more fun.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Nerokerubina

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

Above is the critical point (bolding is mine) that everyone seems to be missing.

 

DE don't have a way to extract money out of the player base except through manipulative, gambling industry techniques.

 

Update 8 appears to have shown their direction forward which is to provide a pay wall that gives a minuscule chance at getting the new content. This is not forcing you to pay once or twice, it is forcing you to pay hundreds of times in order to get anything. I can't see any universe in which I would be willing to pay on average $50-$100 for Latron Prime, yet that is roughly how much it would have cost when Update 8 went live.

The issue is, people have pointed out time and time again that they'd be more inclined to buy plat if the prices for both plat and stuff in the shop weren't absolutely bat-S#&amp;&#036; &#036;&amp;*&amp;*#(%&amp;. But DE refuses to listen and only wants to ride the coat tails of people willing to buy the grand master package. This is why their income is tanking, because instead of going after everyone, they're going after a few big spenders then trying to force everyone else to become a big spender.

 

 

 

Infected Female Tenno

This is literally the worst idea I've ever heard.

[ADDpillz]

Its sad that DE needs to post the actual code to make you guys stop whining.

Here's a pro-tip: "Dataminers" don't know everything, neither does Wiki.

Its sad when White Knights aka Fanboys aka

 

belittle talented coders that take time out of their lives to make sure your not getting screwed out of your money and time.

 

Heres a pro-tip for you: 

 

Dataminers are one of the checks and balances of the gaming industry. 

 

These ones did a wonderful job.

Edited June 3, 2013 by ADDpillz

[Wojek]

I am E3-bound but it is something I've been reading and considering and we'll try to find a less grindy solution that doesn't tank our income.

Personally, if you stick with this level of grindiness, it  will be the end of me for this game.

As you can see, I invested a bit in your game and I did it mainly because Warframe offered me one thing: a quick and easy way of fun with a feeling of progress attached. Every day I could hop into the game, get mad at the ammo box (or super happy about that one reactor bp) and then do two or three runs, level my stuff, unlock new locations and get more gear - and I always progressed some way, be it finding new mods for my guns, new materials to craft my stuff or getting access to different and new missions and tilesets.

However, now I hardly feel any progress anymore. I could try even more new guns, I hardly got them all, but honestly some of them just plain suck so bad and cost so much materials, I will not put in that. Especially since I can't stand another 10 Kiste and Kappas runs until they're completely kitted out.

If I had one request, then please, please bring more diversity to this game. I don't care if you have to sit down for one month or so, read all the suggestions in this forums (there are many great ones out there!) and then work exclusevily on these and skip the bi-weekly new 'content' (because the stuff you keep releasing is nice, but I don't care about more guns, I want more bosses like the Jackal or Lech Kril). Also please bring in more diversity for melee, improve AI further, include new hazards and so on.

This is what will keep me being a paying customer - a casual customer, but one who nevertheless will keep dumping small amounts of money.

[JLXJPG]

N-No! No to silly hats! Hats = Metaphor.

 

Suit/armor parts, new alt helmets, new themed sets ("Devil" Ember, "Mammoth" Rhino, "Tesla" Volt, "Technocyte Plague" Saryn etc.) shoulders, boots, gauntlets, new textures for weapons (Orokin Era Revolver Lex - Day one purchase.), etc

 

This is a great idea!

 

I also hope that they'll add other alternate (not only cosmetic) parts in the future - would be great to customize the frames even further and prevent the unending need for all-new frames every X weeks. Instead you could just re-customize your already existing frames with new found alternate parts.

[[DE]Steve]

Have you even read the thread? 

 

The code was not even about the mission reward, it does not change anything.

 

Every array for rewards passes through that code.

[Nerokerubina]

Every array for rewards passes through that code.

I have a question.

 

Why not have certain rare mods drop from ? Alerts too?

[Webly]

I think we'd all rather prefer it if DE supported itself with more cosmetic items that don't affect gameplay and allowed the gameplay affecting items to be obtained more freely.

Reposting this.

[DAWGUNITALPHA]

I have a question.

 

Why not have certain rare mods drop from ? Alerts too?

Because then they couldn't charge 100 dollars for thunderbolt in a mod pack with some plat.

[Keetsune]

Open Kimono: we're doing it they way you guys are suggesting. Maybe we're not doing it right, have bugs in some areas (and yes, we're looking at them). Maybe we're math idiots, maybe we need to explore other systems (tokens, going out of business). There is not a hotfix coming that sets "drop rates for everything fixed" however. We'll tweak and tune but I don't agree we're on outlier on these rates.

Rare started at 0.5%, blah blah bell-curve distribution but we upped it radically through the months of playing this game for ourselves.

Binning results, 10k rolls.

BEFORE:
Nanospores = 2051 (20.5%)
Ferrite = 7704 (77%)
ControlModule = 245 (2.5%)
WITH ENERGYFRAGMENT:
Nanospores = 2051 (20.5%)
Ferrite = 3870 (38.7%)
ControlModule = 249 (2.5%)
EnergyFragment = 3830 (38.3%)

Here is the copy/pasted C++ code into Lua, and fixed for table formating and array-indexing by 1.

[edited for whitespace]

local COMMON = 1local UNCOMMON = 2local RARE = 3local RESERVED = 4local FLT_MIN = 1.175494351e-38local PROBABILITIES = { 0.76, 0.215, 0.025, 0 } -- normalizedlocal ItemRarity = { COMMON, UNCOMMON, RARE, RESERVED }local ItemRarityNames = { "COMMON", "UNCOMMON", "RARE", "RESERVED"}local ResourcesA = { { mItemType="Nanospores", mRarity=UNCOMMON }, { mItemType="Ferrite", mRarity=COMMON }, { mItemType="ControlModule", mRarity=RARE }}local ResourcesB = { { mItemType="Nanospores", mRarity=UNCOMMON }, { mItemType="Ferrite", mRarity=COMMON }, { mItemType="ControlModule", mRarity=RARE }, { mItemType="EnergyFragment", mRarity=COMMON }} local function Lerp(a, b, t) return a * (1 - t) + b * t;endlocal function NormalizeProbability(t) local countsByProb = { 0, 0, 0, 0 } for i=1,#t do countsByProb[t[i].mRarity] = countsByProb[t[i].mRarity] + 1.0 end local totalProb = 0.0 for i=1,#PROBABILITIES do if (countsByProb[i] > 0.0) then totalProb = totalProb + PROBABILITIES[i] end end if (totalProb > 0.0) then local normalizedProb = { 0, 0, 0, 0 } for i=1,#PROBABILITIES do if (countsByProb[i] > 0.0) then normalizedProb[i] = PROBABILITIES[i] / (totalProb * countsByProb[i]); end end for i=1,#t do t[i].mProbability = normalizedProb[t[i].mRarity] end endendlocal function PickRandomBiasAtten(t, bias, atten, perElemAtten) -- normalization pass based on atten/bias local totalP = 0.0 for i=1,#t do if perElemAtten[i] == nil then perElemAtten[i] = 0.0 end local biasProb = math.max(FLT_MIN, t[i].mProbability - bias) local peA = perElemAtten[i] if peA == nil then peA = 0.0 end t[i].mBiasedProb = Lerp(biasProb, 1.0 - biasProb, math.min(1.0, atten + perElemAtten[i])); totalP = totalP + t[i].mBiasedProb; end if totalP > 0.0 then for i=1,#t do t[i].mBiasedProb = t[i].mBiasedProb / totalP end -- pick random local fr = math.random() for i=1,#t do local biasProb = t[i].mBiasedProb if(fr <= biasProb) then return i end fr = fr - biasProb end end return 1endlocal function RunTest(t, numRolls) NormalizeProbability(t) local resultBins = {} for i=1,#t do resultBins[i] = 0.0 end for i=1,numRolls do local idx = PickRandomBiasAtten(t, 0.0, 0.0, {}) resultBins[idx] = resultBins[idx] + 1 end for i=1,#t do print("" .. t[i].mItemType .. " = " .. resultBins[i] .. " (" .. math.floor(0.5 + (resultBins[i] / numRolls) * 1000.0) / 10 .. "%)") endendlocal seed = 75732453 -- os.time()print("BEFORE:")math.randomseed(seed)RunTest(ResourcesA, 10000)math.randomseed(seed)print("WITH ENERGYFRAGMENT:")RunTest(ResourcesB, 10000)

Just making 3 rarity grp drop system is not enought. Also you should take in count item type, in example even if u count Void T3 Key as rare it should not share same drop chance with rare mods or mats or rare itmes of other type. 

 

In my opinion i dont want see "time advancement" in this game, just make a good RNG. 

 

Game with time advancement = second work in ur life.

RNG based game = everyone loves gamble.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Keetsune

[Sideway]

This is literally the worst idea I've ever heard.

 

I must agree with him. It's like this idea was created by a bunch of teens who always paint their Frames with pitch black and blood red.

 

 

I'm reading the comments and... wow... many people seem to forget about one thing. There is no such thing like "Free to play". Nothing is free. And if you don't want to (or you are not able to) help DE with some money... then don't complain with such arguments - because every purchased key, cosmetic item, color set, Warframe Slot, Potato and Forma means more potential content for you (for free, because you know you will never buy a single Platinum Pack).

 

If you don't want to put your money on the table to help... if all you can say is "DE = Jews"... then perhaps it's not the game for you. I'd even say that you're the "Jews" here, because you can really enjoy the game for ~10 Euro... but you will never pay a single cent. You could, but you won't. Because it's "Free to play" and therefore you expect the same content for you as for those who pay 10 bucks every month... not because they need platinum so much... they're just donating the game they enjoy.

 

So if you don't have money and you simply can't afford to buy Platinum - You kinda have to deal with it and wait till Warframe will be more like Team Fortress 2.

 

But... if you have money and yet you choose you don't want to support the game, because it's "free" and you will never pay for something that is "free"... then you're just greedy "Jews" who failed to understand the basic concept of economy. Please, by all means - enjoy your "free" content and stop complaining about Void Keys.

 

I see this thread as a Mods Drop Rate Discussion. Some ideas are nice, anything is better than RNG really... Mods are something that any player can get - you don't need money to enjoy that content... so let's hope that it won't be so frustrating in the future.