Datamined Mission Rewards Are Bad. If True, Please Change Them.

[Wutever]

What MMOs have you been playing?

None at the time, but I used to play WoW, TERA, Diablo 2 (not technically an MMO), Path of Exile, and prolly some more. And while none of them were perfect at any point, they never had this levels of bullsh*t going on when it came to grinding and end-game content.

 

1. What these core mods?

2. The Void isnt end game content the Void is simply an area to get a different kinds of loot.

3. Outside of Forma, are any of those items necessary? It's not like other games where you endlessly doing runs for items that are tremendously helpful.

4. I dont know that but... what's the problem?

 

Like i mentioned earlier, U8 is just over a week old and you folks are flipping out over stuff that isnt necessary.

1. Multishots, Frost mods, Stretch and other energy / ability affecting mods (Flow isn't even there), Vitality. And why the hell is Rush in tier 3 Defense with 0.15% when it drops like every time in Raid?

2. Then what is end game? Where do you get the best weapons (outside clan rewards), rare mods and a special frame? Which other area has stronger enemies? Wave 40+ defense sure isn't late game, cause the loot doesn't get any better, so we're stuck with Orokin Void as the next level of content for the time being and it is bloody terrible in a multitude of ways.

3. They provide progression. Prime stuff is arguably the best stuff in the game, Forma is absolutely essential for most maxed out builds. A game, especially a p*ss easy PvE one, without progression is worthless. With 0.15% chance there essentially is no progression.

4. Outside the fact that I would like to have a chance at getting them without paying or be warned in a comprehensive way that I can't get them without buying a very specific modpack? Nothing, because they aren't essential.

 

I'd rather complain now than later, and see if they listen so I can decide on whether to jump the ship before it goes under or stay for the ride. I have seen too many Titanics in my time with online gaming to go down with one.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Wutever

[Lumireaver]

I obtained Pure Bladestone in Demon's Souls, which has a drop rate of something like 0.5%. That is pretty much as low as I'm willing to go...normally. That was just one desirable drop in an entire game of otherwise not-as-rare crap. Here in Warframe we have an ever expanding drops which occur even more infrequently than Pure Bladestone. (Which I still have nightmares about, by the way.)

 

DE, I'd say you need to sort out your loot tables carefully. Instead of making all the goodies drop exceedingly rarely everywhere, you should make certain treats drop respectably rarely in certain places. ...Rarer, more desirable loot should only drop in late-game places, on hardcore difficulty, with headshots/ground-finisher only mode enabled. Grineer mods should only drop from Grineer, ect. (I know they're not "Grineer" mods, but you follow me, yeah?)

 

Make each little thing we can do have a nice 2.5% rare drop instead of making everything draw from the same pool of 0.15% loot. It makes getting the things we want a chore bordering on insanity. 

 

I understand you want to make money, and I'll give you money, but what you're running here is a glorified sexy ninja lottery, and psychos like me who are willing to play that lottery until we make bank, I believe, are in the minority. 

 

It would also be huge if you could just publicly disclose drop rates so we don't have to rely on dataminers.

[Mak_Gohae]

None at the time, but I used to play WoW, TERA, Diablo 2 (not technically an MMO), Path of Exile, and prolly some more. And while none of them were perfect at any point, they never had this levels of bullsh*t going on when it came to grinding and end-game content.

 

 

I dont know about Tera or PoE but Blizzard game has this silliness the same way. I dont now how you escaped it.

1. Multishots, Frost mods, Stretch and other energy / ability affecting mods (Flow isn't even there), Vitality. And why the hell is Rush in tier 3 Defense with 0.15% when it drops like every time in Raid?

2. Then what is end game? Where do you get the best weapons (outside clan rewards), rare mods and a special frame? Which other area has stronger enemies? Wave 40+ defense sure isn't late game, cause the loot doesn't get any better, so we're stuck with Orokin Void as the next level of content for the time being and it is bloody terrible in a multitude of ways.

3. They provide progression. Prime stuff is arguably the best stuff in the game, Forma is absolutely essential for most maxed out builds. A game, especially a p*ss easy PvE one, without progression is worthless. With 0.15% chance there essentially is no progression.

4. Outside the fact that I would like to have a chance at getting them without paying or be warned in a comprehensive way that I can't get them without buying a very specific modpack? Nothing, because they aren't essential.

 

I'd rather complain now than later, and see if they listen so I can decide on whether to jump the ship before it goes under or stay for the ride. I have seen too many Titanics in my time with online gaming to go down with one.

 

1. Outside of flow none of that is core or necessary that needs to drop from mission rewards.

2. Stop labeling stuff is what folks need to do. You folks say that this game shouldn't follow some MMORPG systems yet turn out and use MMORPG terminology when suits you. This game doesnt have an endgame. The Void is just the newest zone added.

3.The item itself is the progression not the drop rate because, again, in other games the rare stuff is always rare.

4.What mods are confirmed to be specific to modpacks? The locker room thingy?

[Keetsune]

Screen shot it.

Omni ammo box comes from store, defence and the daily award.

Another Youtube player.

[Keetsune]

0.17% drop rate from mobs it's OK, but 0.17% for 5 waves which last about 10 mins ... i have no words to explain my thoughts about that.

[Otaiken]

DE has to change this loot pool system sooner or later. There is no alternative. This game has grown quite a bit and this system is not very stretchable. At some point we might have so many frames, that just their basic common abilities will dilute the pool so much even common mods will become uncommon as hell. You can't keep adding stuff to this system. Drop chances should be increased or the pool has to be divided... preferably both. Surely DE has to know this.

 

Also, even now there is so much clutter in this system. Do we REALLY need ammo boxes as rewards? You get credits and those are useless as is, so why the hell would you avoid making players use them in favor of diluting the pool even more. Why not make mission rewards mostly the rarer stuff, or make it so higher leveled missions reward with higher level mods. There's no reason for vitality to be a reward on Pluto. Everything drops everywhere so in the end you get nothing. You can't even farm since there's not a really defined place to farm some of these things.

 

Anyway, change is coming, it's inevitable. This system will not and CAN NOT work forever.

Edited June 3, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Lumireaver]

- snip -

 

Sensible post is sensible. This is the main reason I don't fault DE for the current situation. It's a pretty terrible, but it's grown into this state. There is no precedent, and we already know DE is aware of it, and changing it. Let's not be all pitchforks and torches just yet.

[BlueIstari]

Hahaha... wow. In a previous post I mentioned how Warframe's drops didn't feel nearly as bad having experienced the grind of Phantasy Star Online. If the OP's tables are accurate, then I am objectively mistaken. Guess I'll never see a T3 Void mission.

[YellowJacketXV]

Oddly enough I'm reminded of the time when Redirection mods were basically like finding a Flow mod.

[Stalvert]

stuff

I'm no longer interested in this discussion as much as I'm interested in you, specifically: how many of your two thousand, four hundred, and twenty eight posts are spent in fervent defense of bad decisions?

 

If we hated DE or Warframe, we wouldn't even bother complaining. We'd be gone. We expect better from them.

[Mak_Gohae]

I'm no longer interested in this discussion as much as I'm interested in you, specifically: how many of your two thousand, four hundred, and twenty eight posts are spent in fervent defense of bad decisions?

 

If we hated DE or Warframe, we wouldn't even bother complaining. We'd be gone. We expect better from them.

 

I want to know how many other companies have you loved as much as DE to complain once some one datamined some possible percentages.

[CosyPigeon]

I think we'd all rather prefer it if DE supported itself with more cosmetic items that don't affect gameplay and allowed the gameplay affecting items to be obtained more freely.

 

Pretty much this. Making gameplay items realistically only obtainable though cash hurts paying customers almost as much as f2p ones. Why? Because it removes incentive for us to play the game, if the core aspect of gameplay is kill more enemies to get more stuff. Then paying for the stuff in lieu of killing enemies kind of makes playing the game pointless. 

 

I also want more badass looking stuff to make my frame and weapons look more unique. 

[CosyPigeon]

Oddly enough I'm reminded of the time when Redirection mods were basically like finding a Flow mod.

 

Perhaps I should go and resurrect my 'luck is the only way to progress in update 7' thread :/

[Mak_Gohae]

Perhaps I should go and resurrect my 'luck is the only way to progress in update 7' thread :/

That update was weird because people always complain about the game not being challenging and with what was done there it did make the game challenging but there was a massive flip out.

[Madotsuki]

Considering how accurate the dataminers were on the Lab Weapons, I'd trust them on this too. And I'd have to say, DE done goofed with the drop rates. They better fix the rewards system soon, because I am getting sick of farming that won't even get me anywhere unless a miracle happens.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Wow..now I know why some mods took me so long to get.

These rates are ridiculous.

They seem factual and coincide with my on gameplay experience.

[Xylia]

"This game ain't about farming"

 

.......heh.

 

Then why did they make so many friggin ridiculously important mods (Hello, Multishot?) so ridiculously hard to get, when they KNOW players will want to, uh, FARM them?

 

Then they decide to make Neurodes a component in nearly every stinking gun, so you have to.....uh.....FARM Neurodes until you're blue in the face.

 

And here comes DOJOS! Now we have to... wait, FARM? materials by the loads to build dojo rooms.

 

The only thing you're not farming is Forma and Potatoes... those, you CAMP. you open up a twitter feed and just wait until one pops hopefully you're on your computer and able to drop what you're doing and log in.

[Flunky]

ahaha those tier 3 void key drops rates. that's straight up pay to play if you want to access that S#&$ regularly without leeching off someone else

[taiiat]

Look at the table, listed under "Raid" is omni ammo box.

but, who are you to say whether or not this is actually true? our only way of testing such things would be to run a raid mission a bunch of times. so honestly, unless you've run a raid mission 10,000 times, we can't really know that it's just absolutely untrue. 

 

assumptions based on iffy information is how everything can get screwed up. (like this 'datamined' information. worth checking out further, but not to assume the numbers are accurate).

 

It would also be huge if you could just publicly disclose drop rates so we don't have to rely on dataminers.

i think i agree. it's probably the best for Warframe, the more the players know, the more opinions we can give, and DE can get a better idea of what might be 'too high' or 'too low'. there's no reason why absolutely everything in Warframe shouldn't be up for a possible change based on how things actually play out, as inhouse an idea might be good, but not workout in actuality. 

 

 

all in all, drop rates for things should probably take into account stacked chances (such as tower keys and prime BP's and BP parts and material drops to make said BP's), how much an item willl be used, and effectiveness of fusions (i.e. how many of said duplicates you'll need to fully level any mod, assuming you don't burn random cards or use fusion cores) and it goes on. Warframe has a lot of stacked mechanics, and the stacking might be getting forgotten. 

Edited June 3, 2013 by taiiat

[shinydunsparce]

Arguing with each other over datamined content that has already had to be corrected seems troublesome. The issue here is two fold:

1) Reversed engineered data is not perfect.
2) The RNG system as a whole is actively being changed.

So, bearing in mind Steve has addressed the issue of RNG as a whole (https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/), and that our current system is largely inspired from games like Diablo (and others), what changes are you looking for? What would you like to see?

Thanks to those who referred to the concept of "rare" items as a whole and how that plays into drop rate systems in other games. Definitegj brings up a good point on "use it an it's gone" in regards to keys and how that could affect arguments.

 

On people asking if this is legit. Rebecca doesn't deny it. Just tries to discredit it.

[Skeloton]

 

 

On people asking if this is legit. Rebecca doesn't deny it. Just tries to discredit it.

 

And by mentioning Diablo makes me :(

Diablo3 is/was as bad as Warframe, RNGwise.

[shinydunsparce]

And by mentioning Diablo makes me :(

Diablo3 is/was as bad as Warframe, RNGwise.

But at least you could buy gear strait up with real money / in game money. And content wasn't hidden behind a <2% drop chance.

[Flunky]

the datamine bro was correct on all the clan weapon stuff. the three tier raid reward bonus is too: anyone who's done a bunch of defense farming on different planets and paid attention to the 5-wave rewards should be able to see the mods listed are correct. if that's a fake he's really done his homework

[JamnikPucek]

 

 

On people asking if this is legit. Rebecca doesn't deny it. Just tries to discredit it.

 

 

Totally.

 

Especially when she says that reverse engineered data is not accurate.

 

And by mentioning Diablo makes me :(

Diablo3 is/was as bad as Warframe, RNGwise.

 

She mentions Diablo, presumably the series. Not D3 in particular.

 

Action RPG loot systems, you know, you kill stuff, loot drops out of them. Based on a better or worse RNG system. The staple of all Action-RPGs.

 

Some call those games Diablo-clones. Or games like Diablo. Its a fairly common term for people who had their first contact with the game style through said game.

[shinydunsparce]

Totally.

 

Especially when she says that reverse engineered data is not accurate.

 

 

 

Are you being sarcastic? Because she doesn't say that at all in that quote. She didn't even specify the datamined information in question. She just said generally ' Reverse engineered data is not perfect ' If she wanted to say that the tables shown were wrong, she would have just said it.