Rhino's Rework Is Actually Pretty Lackluster.... He Needs To Be Buffed!

[Zarozian]

Envy isn't a valid method of justification. Adding to that, you shouldn't assume that Valkyr is in a perfectly acceptable state for DE or the community at large.

Oh really?

 

Well how presumptuous of you to assume it's envy~

 

People are quite happy with where she is, that's why you don't see unhappy threads of people demanding her receive a buff like this one~

 

If people are happy with her then she's clearly in an acceptable state where she's accepted by all who isn't envious.

 

All I'm trying to say is that I'm not happy with Rhino and where he is now. And we the Rhino players/Rhino fans believe Rhino Prime deserves a buff of armor. Here you are telling us we can't have that~

 

Also you can stop trying to sound smart. It makes me cringe a bit~ e .e

Holy S#&$ you just dont get it do you? I literally just said ... you know what screw it, i can see your type, you just wont let go of that somple-minded idea you inbedeted in you mind and refuse to listem to any other reason, i met ppl like you before.

Well with you telling your thoughts and me mind the you disability for reasoning will just have to end this here.

Whoa~ Where did that come from? o -o

[JuicyPop]

Oh really?

 

Well how presumptuous of you to assume it's envy~

 

People are quite happy with where she is, that's why you don't see unhappy threads of people demanding her receive a buff like this one~

 

If people are happy with her then she's clearly in an acceptable state where she's accepted by all who isn't envious.

 

All I'm trying to say is that I'm not happy with Rhino and where he is now. And we the Rhino players/Rhino fans believe Rhino Prime deserves a buff of armor. Here you are telling us we can't have that~

 

Also you can stop trying to sound smart. It makes me cringe a bit~ e .e

Whoa~ Where did that come from? o -o

 

All I'm trying to say is that I'm not happy with Trinity and where she is now. We the Trinity players/Trinity fans believe that she deserves a return to a truly invulnerable Blessing. Here you are telling us we can't have that.

 

Thanks in advance for setting a precedent.

Edited December 14, 2015 by JuicyPop

[Zarozian]

All I'm trying to say is that I'm not happy with Trinity and where she is now. We the Trinity players/Trinity fans believe that she deserves a return to a truly invulnerable Blessing. Here you are telling us we can't have that.

 

Thanks in advance.

Lol~

 

Well it is invulnerability and she can already reduce damage to non-existence, restore, buff, shields and health, so it was unreasonable to give her invulnerability on top of all that.

 

It's also not like we're asking for them to give Rhino Prime invulnerability. Giving him more armor won't drastically change Rhino into a overpowered one punch god.

[Zarozian]

All we're asking for is a buff to armor to better cope with the new formula for his Iron Skin.

Watching you of course.

 

How presumptuous~ = 3=

 

Who are you really?

 

 

Holy S#&$ you just dont get it do you? I literally just said ... you know what screw it, i can see your type, you just wont let go of that somple-minded idea you inbedeted in you mind and refuse to listem to any other reason, i met ppl like you before.
Well with you telling your thoughts and me mind the you disability for reasoning will just have to end this here.

 

Also the way you type and write stuff in that weird order reminds me of someone.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Zarozian

[Gurpgork]

All we're asking for is a buff to armor to better cope with the new formula for his Iron Skin.

You don't need to cope with this new formula because it makes Iron Skin objectively better. It's the same ability before and after the change, just now it's stronger.

 

The new formula for Miasma is something you have to cope with because now the ability works differently. It used to be an instant nuke, now it's a damage over time. That is a new formula you actually have to adjust for. This is not. This new formula does not change the way the ability functions, nor does it add any possibility of making it weaker than it was before the change.

Edited December 14, 2015 by Gurpgork

[JuicyPop]

Lol~

 

Well it is invulnerability and she can already reduce damage to non-existence, restore, buff, shields and health, so it was unreasonable to give her invulnerability on top of all that.

 

It's also not like we're asking for them to give Rhino Prime invulnerability. Giving him more armor won't drastically change Rhino into a overpowered one punch god.

 

It doesn't matter what you're asking for, the point is that there needs to be a clear and present reason for making changes. If you can demonstrate that Rhino is struggling to fulfill his role at a reasonable content level then you have a definite cause for concern.

 

Until you can do that I see no reason for any buffs since I have no difficulties with taking Rhino into Trials, Sorties and T4 endless.

 

Enlighten us.

Edited December 14, 2015 by JuicyPop

[Zarozian]

It doesn't matter what you're asking for, the point is that there needs to be a clear and present reason for making changes. If you can demonstrate that Rhino is struggling to fulfill his role at a reasonable content level then you have a definite cause for concern.

 

Until you can do that I see no reason for any buffs since I have no difficulties with taking Rhino into Trials, Sorties and T4 endless.

 

Enlighten me.

 

So was there a reason for them to change how Iron Skin works if it just lasts as long as how it did previously? 

 

You know why the added 1887 base Iron Skin Hp right?

 

You know why they added that 3 second absorption too right?

 

Because without it. Iron Skin would work and feel the same even with a maxed Steel Fiber on and all the Power Strength mods on.

 

This change was meant to be a buff but it has done nothing at all other than change the way how we mod Rhino. Now we need to sacrifice an important mod from our build to make room for mods like Steel Fiber, Armored Agility, Ironclad Charge, if we want to be very tanky, which then renders it all pointless because as soon as that Iron Skin runs out, he dies instantly, which then forces you to remove another crucial mod to your build to add in Iron Shrapnel, and at that point.....what's the point anymore?....Just grab Valkyr or Trinity or even Chroma instead. Need CC just go with Vauban or Frost.

 

And you know what? You're right. Even asking them to add more armor for Rhino Prime won't really make much of a difference either. At best he'll just last longer in endgame. But that's all that's needed for him to just last longer.

 

Because the devs intention with this change to Iron Skin was to buff it, but it failed to do that. So I am providing them a solution, cause as it is now, Iron Skin still only lasts as long as the old one.

[Zarozian]

Who an i? Just an ordinary rhino fan whos not used to this touchpad on phone like to my keyboard, gosh its really annoying me, excuse my typos still have hard time aiming at right letter and stuff. Beside thats completly out of topic.

Okay...?

[Zarozian]

You don't need to cope with this new formula because it makes Iron Skin objectively better. It's the same ability before and after the change, just now it's stronger.

 

The new formula for Miasma is something you have to cope with because now the ability works differently. It used to be an instant nuke, now it's a damage over time. That is a new formula you actually have to adjust for. This is not. This new formula does not change the way the ability functions, nor does it add any possibility of making it weaker than it was before the change.

Oh no.

 

I mean that I literally tested this out.

 

I had a pure Iron Skin build that focuses entirely on All Power Strength mods and All Armor mods, and it would have a much worse time surviving than a regularly build Rhino with maxed shields and health and a steel fiber with some power strength mods and power efficiency and power max.

[Zarozian]

See this one is the one that I used and it survived for much longer than-

 

This one down here vvvv

Because that ^^^^^

 

Forces you to sacrifice your Redirection and Vitality mods too, which would make it completely pointless, cause you die instantly as soon as it runs out, no one would use this build. Instead for the optimal performance they would use the first one.

[Epicagemo]

IMO charge was the only one that was nerfed, but iron skin (4 sec absorb) and stomp (recastable) got the ones that I was looking for.

 

Have any of you tried void lasers?

This is lackluster right? I don't even have defensive mods on lol.

 

 

[Zarozian]

First of the buff didnt fail as you think the iron skin does last longer if you just turn you brains on a bit and i only have steel fiber from mods you mentioned and i am still doing just fine. And stop saying armor buff is solution the ideal solution cuz its not. And you must alao keep in mind its 2nd ability meaning that appatently bless and link and hysteria are reasonable to protect more. Oh and they didnt add 1887hp thats only the effective hp with armor factor.

 

So the HP amount is still 1200 but the ability is factoring in base armor, which is why it shows 1887?

 

And no. I'm saying I've tested this and I'm saying it feels no different than the previous Iron Skin before the buff. The buff might look good in numbers but in terms of actual gameplay the buff isn't noticeable at all.

[Zarozian]

And now please explain how will.tje armor buff solve you modding problem here?

Cause then I can use the first build which is more optimal for tanking and surviving with the benefits of a stronger and more durable Iron Skin.

 

IMO charge was the only one that was nerfed, but iron skin (4 sec absorb) and stomp (recastable) got the ones that I was looking for.

 

Have any of you tried void lasers?

This is lackluster right? I don't even have defensive mods on lol.

 

It's 3 seconds lad~

 

And yes but that's only in the void however. 

[JuicyPop]

See this one is the one that I used and it survived for much longer than-

 

This one down here vvvv

Because that ^^^^^

 

Forces you to sacrifice your Redirection and Vitality mods too, which would make it completely pointless, cause you die instantly as soon as it runs out, no one would use this build. Instead for the optimal performance they would use the first one.

 

Are these serious builds or just something to test IS tank?

[Zarozian]

Yes the stats in your arsenal automativly calculate in the armor factor.

Oh? Then how come i also tested new iron skin and instantly felt great improvement from buff?

What were you testing them with?

 

I use using Sentient Battalysts level 40 as my base. I felt only a slight improvement. Nothing too great or that noticeable. I also believe it would have just lasted all the same with the old Iron Skin too.

Are these serious builds or just something to test IS tank?

Just to test of course.

Although they could be used seriously and the second one with Iron Shrapnel can do a ridiculous amount of damage.

[Zarozian]

Also don't judge it based on stats and the numbers you see. 

 

Performance wise it plays very differently.

I myself prefer the first one because it allows me to keep maxed efficiency, my health and shields, and a decently strong iron skin with strong abilities.

 

The second one purely focuses on Iron Skin and raw power. Which is invincible in mid and high end game. But not end-end game.

[Zarozian]

-snip-

Lol. But in all seriousness, they develop immunity to damage and CC and all other affects that abilities have on them. However they don't have anything against our defense and survival related skills.

Wukong might be the greatest warframe to use against them.

[Zarozian]

But you still have to deal dmg somehow and all abilities suffer from energy drain. Unless idk you bring 200 energy restores, can you do that in your "test"?

When Wukong is in cloud form, he doesn't get his energy drained, but with defy on he only does when the Sentients start doing that flashing thingy.

However......Rhino with his Iron Skin on is immune to that....he will play a very important role some day when the Sentients arrive as a faction.

[ashrah]

rhino is very strong if moded well that all veterans knows very well... on high level no frame who can stey on open and shot......ppl very offten doing that and get swarmed killed than guy who try to rev him get killed too

[GnosticCat]

When Wukong is in cloud form, he doesn't get his energy drained, but with defy on he only does when the Sentients start doing that flashing thingy.

However......Rhino with his Iron Skin on is immune to that....he will play a very important role some day when the Sentients arrive as a faction.

Problem is that you are basing whole faction of Sentiens on two drones that have been released. What if they learn dispel from Stalker or steal dreaded nullifier technology from Corpus? Oh no all your preparations and standing on street corner warning people about DOOOM will go to waste. Iron Skin will not work, energy will be drained. Clearly Iron Skin needs immunity to all powers so that brave Rhino can protect rest of helpless Tenno from Sentient menace.

[Zarozian]

Still gear can help a lot and i would like to know if you allow it to be used in that test of yours.

  

Yeah it can. Another thing is that...when you try to buff yourself with an ability, you buff the Sentients around you too.

Problem is that you are basing whole faction of Sentiens on two drones that have been released. What if they learn dispel from Stalker or steal dreaded nullifier technology from Corpus? Oh no all your preparations and standing on street corner warning people about DOOOM will go to waste. Iron Skin will not work, energy will be drained. Clearly Iron Skin needs immunity to all powers so that brave Rhino can protect rest of helpless Tenno from Sentient menace.

The Conculysts and Battalysts are just ground troops, the larger ones which drop them off aren't likely to be fought in large groups.

It's more like the Conculysts are their main fighting force anyways. And I don't think they'll use nullifier tech in that way, but more like they will be in an area that's protected by a large nullifier bubble that covers the map. We would need to disable it first before we can all use our abilities again.

As for dispell. Those are probably going to be for Sentient commanders only.

[DSpite]

IMO charge was the only one that was nerfed, but iron skin (4 sec absorb) and stomp (recastable) got the ones that I was looking for.

 

Have any of you tried void lasers?

This is lackluster right? I don't even have defensive mods on lol.

 

I think it's a really useful thing that this is actually possible, but please understand that it's the kind of thing DE would look at and say "hmmm, we did'nt think people would do that".

 

I tend to prefer mechanics that have a range. Yes, you might be able to do a few things outside the norm, but not technically "break" the numbers because like you have shown here, one enemy might have a 1 Billion damage ability because he's meant to be dodged, and instead we go stand in front of him.

 

I don't know. Seriously, Rhino is quite playable as is. My only personal gripe is not being able to turn off IS manually and just re-cast.

[Zarozian]

I think it's a really useful thing that this is actually possible, but please understand that it's the kind of thing DE would look at and say "hmmm, we did'nt think people would do that".

 

I tend to prefer mechanics that have a range. Yes, you might be able to do a few things outside the norm, but not technically "break" the numbers because like you have shown here, one enemy might have a 1 Billion damage ability because he's meant to be dodged, and instead we go stand in front of him.

 

I don't know. Seriously, Rhino is quite playable as is. My only personal gripe is not being able to turn off IS manually and just re-cast.

True. Being able to recast it would solve a lot of problems...But I don't want to sacrifice another mod to include Iron Shrapnel, my build it's pretty compact as it is. =/

[GnosticCat]

True. Being able to recast it would solve a lot of problems...But I don't want to sacrifice another mod to include Iron Shrapnel, my build it's pretty compact as it is. =/

Yes, I think most if not all duration abilities should be recastable. In this case Iron Shrapnel might have been reason why Iron Skin was not made recastable like Stomp. More and more skills are being moved to recastable like Nyx chaos and Hydroid's tentacles so I think there is hope.

Only frame that I can think of where I would not be sure about recastable would be Loki's invisibility.

[SquidTheSid]

I dunno, I think Rhino is in a really solid place right now and his kit is very solid. Iron Skin is much tankier now and allows him to survive reasonably well in sorties. That being said, I would make some tweaks to him. 

 

Base Stats:

 

Given that Rhino relies so heavily on armor (his augment for his first ability grants armor, his second ability scales with armor, etc.), it really doesn't make sense that his shield stat is higher than his health pool. I would swap the values (give him 100 shields and 150 health at base) to go in line with his theme of stacking armor. 

 

His passive is also quite lame and really situational. While it fits thematically, I can think of more useful passives, like staggering enemies that he sprints into or giving him a damage/speed buff to heavy melee weapons in the vein of Excalibur (the Fragor is his signature weapon, after all ,and the skin bundle comes with a skin for the Jat Kittag, so it would fit). 

 

Also, I would increase Rhino's base armor to 300 (to put him on par with Frost) and maybe the Prime's version to 350 armor or something. It really doesn't make sense for Rhino to have lower armor than Wukong and Excalibur, and it really doesn't make sense for his Prime variant to have less armor than Frost (as both used to have the same armor values). 

 

1). Rhino Charge

 

My only complaint is that it doesn't scale with melee mods (I thought Scott mentioned on stream that it would scale with melee mods, so I wonder what happened), which makes it fall off relatively quickly. 

 

Outside of that, it's a solid mobility and CC ability.

 

2). Iron Skin

 

Definitely much better now. Only major complaint is that you can't recast it without the augment. Fix that issue (let it be recastable without augment) and it will be a really solid ability.

 

Also, please let us disable the cosmetic effect for it. The Palatine skin is gorgeous, but I can't see it underneath all of that tacky purple armor. 

 

For the augment, I'd also increase the base range from 10 meters to 15 meters, since its effective range is quite small right now.  

 

3). Roar

 

Please let us recast Roar. I don't know why we can't do so already and it makes his augment mod rather useless without it. 

 

Also, it might be nice to temporarily draw aggro for a few seconds on cast so it can draw aggro for Iron Skin, but I'm  not sure that this should be baseline functionality.

 

Also, the augment is pretty terrible. Puncture procs in general are rather useless. Maybe it can temporarily strip armor off of enemies a la Sonic Fracture OR make the damage reduction last the full duration of the ability and scale with Power Strength? 

 

4). Rhino Stomp

 

Now that it's recastable, it's a really good hard CC ability. Not much I'd change about it honestly (yes, the damage is pitiful, but the 25m base range of the ability more than makes up for it).

 

Maybe we could get the ability to perform finishers on suspended enemies like Radial Blind? This could also be relegated to an augment mod if it's too much for baseline functionality.