Anti-One-Shot Mechanics.

[EmptyDevil]

Sounds like a crutch for people that can't manage higher level enemies (That's not meant as an insult). I'm very familiar with getting instamurdered by high level enemies (I main Mag, and she goes squish fairly easily if I don't have constant CC rolling), but honestly all this would detract from the difficulty of the game. Severely. Any half decent player would NEVER die with these mechanics implemented. And it would really undervalue the mechanic of reviving group members.

 

A games difficulty shouldn't revolve around us absolutely needing to constantly spam CC in order to not be oneshot killed. The difficulty would still remain due to scaling. Anything that is too weak could be increased in damage/fire rate to compensate in case the mechanic makes our survival too good. However, the way i presented it should allow for the difficulty of the game to remain the same but eliminate oneshot kills entirely.

 

It wouldn't undervalue the reviving of squadmates at all because in those situations where you absolutely need a team, this wouldn't make you immortal or capable of soloing a mission forever. This would help you in reviving a person for just a fraction longer, it would help healing frames have a better cue on healing someone, and it gives players a bit more build freedom by allowing use of other things besides specialized niche builds + tactics.

 

I should probably compile my idea for the mechanic into one large post or thread but, i'm not sure i really want to make another one since we have this.

Edited December 24, 2015 by EmptyDevil

[GovernmentSecrets.gov]

The "lag issue" must be on your end I never lag in Warframe.

Edited December 24, 2015 by GenerationX3

[Gnarfrog]

A games difficulty shouldn't revolve around us absolutely needing to constantly spam CC in order to not be oneshot killed. The difficulty would still remain due to scaling.

 

Why not? Enemies reaching a point of being able to one shot is a part of scaling, and a challenging part of the game. I don't get the rational behind trying to add an abuseable mechanic (unless it has a CD of ATLEAST a minute) to avoid it, instead of using strategy and builds for the situation to manage it. Besides the fact that perma CC and niche strategy's are rarely even neccesary anyway. I've run 2 hour t4s pub groups with NO CC or any real team synergy. The whole thing seems unneccesary in the first place.

[Epsik-kun]

Why not? Enemies reaching a point of being able to one shot is a part of scaling, and a challenging part of the game. I don't get the rational behind trying to add an abuseable mechanic (unless it has a CD of ATLEAST a minute) to avoid it, instead of using strategy and builds for the situation to manage it. Besides the fact that perma CC and niche strategy's are rarely even neccesary anyway. I've run 2 hour t4s pub groups with NO CC or any real team synergy. The whole thing seems unneccesary in the first place.

Dude, making it having a CD of two seconds is enough to make it "abuseability" irrelevant. We already have Bless Trin. You can't abuse more than that. Install the game first, then try to theorycraft.

All I ask for is a half second death delay after having your shields crushed. In vast majority of cases, you won't even notice the change.

[EmptyDevil]

Why not? Enemies reaching a point of being able to one shot is a part of scaling, and a challenging part of the game. I don't get the rational behind trying to add an abuseable mechanic (unless it has a CD of ATLEAST a minute) to avoid it, instead of using strategy and builds for the situation to manage it. Besides the fact that perma CC and niche strategy's are rarely even neccesary anyway. I've run 2 hour t4s pub groups with NO CC or any real team synergy. The whole thing seems unneccesary in the first place.

 

Read everything i typed on the matter, you'll see it isn't abuse prone. One shot kills is not the point of scaling, enemies becoming so tough that they diminish your will to continue is the point. I believe you are lying really hard about your 2 hour pub run in T4S with no form of CC or team synergy. Please try to use factual and logical arguments to explain why it isn't necessary AFTER you read everything i typed on the mechanic.

[Gnarfrog]

Read everything i typed on the matter, you'll see it isn't abuse prone. One shot kills is not the point of scaling, enemies becoming so tough that they diminish your will to continue is the point. I believe you are lying really hard about your 2 hour pub run in T4S with no form of CC or team synergy. Please try to use factual and logical arguments to explain why it isn't necessary AFTER you read everything i typed on the mechanic.

 

I've read through everything you've posted already. I still see it as abuseable, given all you have to do is take cover after your shields drop. 1 second of invulnerability is more than enough time to do that. Then wait out the CD. Especially paired with the Guardian sentinel mod. I just don't see the issue with one shot kills in the first place. A one shot kill has never been the reason for a failed mission for me. At worst, it's a minor annoyance, not an issue that needs to be fixed.

 

Also - 2 Zephyrs, a Mesa, and an Ash. 3 Tonkors, 1 SomaP. Soma manages bubbles, Tonkor everything around corners and choke points. Was supposed to be a 20 min run, but we just kept going. And honestly it was closer to 1 hour 45 min, close enough.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Gnarfrog

[EmptyDevil]

I've read through everything you've posted already. I still see it as abuseable, given all you have to do is take cover after your shields drop. 1 second of invulnerability is more than enough time to do that. Then wait out the CD. Especially paired with the Guardian sentinel mod. I just don't see the issue with one shot kills in the first place. A one shot kill has never been the reason for a failed mission for me. At worst, it's a minor annoyance, not an issue that needs to be fixed. No need to be a $&*^ about it.

 

Also - 2 Zephyrs, a Mesa, and an Ash. 3 Tonkors, 1 SomaP. Soma manages bubbles, Tonkor everything around corners and choke points. Was supposed to be a 20 min run, but we just kept going. And honestly it was closer to 1 hour 45 min, close enough.

 

First of all you didn't read all of it if you think that is abuseable. Second of all you need to calm down and quit the name calling, it makes your argument look really weak. I was simply telling you to read it over instead of skimming. You need to read it again, carefully this time and with a clear head.

 

I'm sure you all used abilities during that mission as well. You were also camping with 3 Tonkors and 2 powerful DPS frames. You call that not using synergy or CC? You lied hard as i suspected.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

 

 

 

Now that i broke it down, i said Valkyr's Shield Collapse Invulnerability would be placed on cooldown. So no, she does not get oneshot killed because her shields will still gate with her remaining shield. This effectively gives her a chance to survive without giving her another layer of immortality.

 

Wait you say it is on Cooldown, but that her Shields will still Gate so she does not get 1-shotted.

So the only downside of delayed damage from Hysteria is applied to her Shields which will act as a 'Gate' to prevent her from being one-shotted by said 'delayed damage'.

Not balanced - is what I read as that would be a buff to Hysteria's invincibility.

[i'm trying to avoid seeing another "Covert Lethality applied to all Stealth Melee attacks"

The Rage +Quick Thinking semi-immortality still succumbed to 1-shota if the damage was high enough to deplete Shield+Health+Energy Health in 1 large damage instance, but faired better against multiple instances of Damage like Corpus Tech Supra or Gorgon from Heavy Gunners]*

Also the 1-shot would still happen in NM due to the Shield-gate not working with No present Shields.

I think more 1-shots happen in NM than normal missions percentage-wise, although I could be wrong as I am speculating.

[Gnarfrog]

First of all you didn't read all of it if you think that is abuseable. Second of all you need to calm down and quit the name calling, it makes your argument look really weak. I was simply telling you to read it over instead of skimming. You need to read it again, carefully this time and with a clear head.

 

I'm sure you all used abilities during that mission as well. You were also camping with 3 Tonkors and 2 powerful DPS frames. You call that not using synergy or CC? You lied hard as i suspected.

 

Off the top of my head, you could eat Bombard rockets (with 100% knockdown resist) and use the invuln. to clear groups or Vazarin revive in the middle of a pack of enemies. It wouldn't be hard for someone more inventive than me to come up with something.

 

In addition to that, I feel it would make the game SIGNIFICANTLY easier. If I don't have the threat of eventual one shots from a high level enemies, there's really nothing to be concerned with anymore. I can play as sloppy as I want. 1 second invuln. is more than enough time to get cover and drop a restore. Unless it's on a significant cooldown.

 

And I read your posts, several times to make sure I didn't miss anything. I'm not mad or upset, but you came off as condecending and I responded in turn. I apologize.

 

And if you're really gunna say that's a synergistic group compared to say Loki, Trin, Nova, and Rhino, then there's no such thing as an unsynergistic group. And my point anyways was that even now you can run any frame you want and still be successful, and even with the Shield-Gate, people are still going to want specific frames for certain scenarios. It won't change that.

 

Good luck with yall's idea anyway.

Edited December 24, 2015 by Gnarfrog

[EmptyDevil]

Wait you say it is on Cooldown, but that her Shields will still Gate so she does not get 1-shotted.

So the only downside of delayed damage from Hysteria is applied to her Shields which will act as a 'Gate' to prevent her from being one-shotted by said 'delayed damage'.

Not balanced - is what I read as that would be a buff to Hysteria's invincibility.

[i'm trying to avoid seeing another "Covert Lethality applied to all Stealth Melee attacks"

The Rage +Quick Thinking semi-immortality still succumbed to 1-shota if the damage was high enough to deplete Shield+Health+Energy Health in 1 large damage instance, but faired better against multiple instances of Damage like Corpus Tech Supra or Gorgon from Heavy Gunners]*

 

What are you talking about exactly? It wouldn't be a buff to Hysteria. As long as a frame has some shields left, they won't be oneshotted by a large amount of damage. The damage would obliterate the shield but the next shot would definitely kill them if the invulnerability is on CD.

 

Rage + Quick Thinking is a health gating tactic and not shield dependent, so yes a frame will die faster than not having a shield. This is because the shield would actually fulfill a purpose and become a damage buffer.

 

Also the 1-shot would still happen in NM due to the Shield-gate not working with No present Shields.

I think more 1-shots happen in NM than normal missions percentage-wise, although I could be wrong as I am speculating.

 

 

Nightmare mode is completely irrelevant to this topic because if you have no shields, you're obviously not going to have a shield gate. So you will be oneshotted on your health.

 

Lets try not to move off topic.

[EmptyDevil]

Off the top of my head, you could eat Bombard rockets (with 100% knockdown resist) and use the invuln. to clear groups or Vazarin revive in the middle of a pack of enemies. It wouldn't be hard for someone more inventive than me to come up with something.

 

During that 1 sec you'd also be susceptible to hordes of enemy fire, procs, and with the potential of death if not careful. Your example is literally THE point of the mechanic, to give the player a fighting chance to turn the tide instead of helplessly dying to oneshots.

 

Vazarin's revive has a 3 minute charge up/cooldown AND procs teammates with Magnetic + Viral minimal FYI, so it's not like you'll be able to spam instant revives with no risk.

 

 

In addition to that, I feel it would make the game SIGNIFICANTLY easier. If I don't have the threat of eventual one shots from a high level enemies, there's really nothing to be concerned with anymore. I can play as sloppy as I want. 1 second invuln. is more than enough time to get cover and drop a restore. Unless it's on a significant cooldown.

 

I detailed it to the point of showing how that wouldn't be the case, this is why i still don't believe you actually read it. You can find cover, pop a shield restore, and then hop back out there to watch your shields drop just as fast as it did before. The only thing is you'd mostly die this time.

 

10 seconds is a good cooldown considering the pace of the game. I don't think putting a 1 ~ 3 minute cooldown on something as minuscule as 1 second invulnerability is necessary. You most likely wouldn't even notice it.

 

 

And if you're really gunna say that's a synergistic group compared to say Loki, Trin, Nova, and Rhino, then there's no such thing as an unsynergistic group. 

 

 

syn·er·gy

ˈsinərjē/

noun

 

1. the interaction or cooperation of two or more organizations, substances, or other agents to produce a combined effect greater than the sum of their separate effects.

 

 

So in what way is having 2 DPS frames, 2 CC frames, 3 Tonkors, and an organized plan of camping down and shooting choke points not synergy? The definition of synergy isn't specific meta setups.

 

 

 

 And my point anyways was that even now you can run any frame you want and still be successful

 

 

You can run any frame and be successful in oneshot damage situations as long as you have a lot of CC, a way to stay hidden, or some form of extended immortality.

 

 

and even with the Shield-Gate, people are still going to want specific frames for certain scenarios. It won't change that.

 

Obviously, some people prefer meta/niche set ups and that is fine. This is about giving the shields a function that is equal across all frames and allowing a player more wiggle room on what they would like to bring. 

[(PSN)MrNishi]

What are you talking about exactly? It wouldn't be a buff to Hysteria. As long as a frame has some shields left, they won't be oneshotted by a large amount of damage. The damage would obliterate the shield but the next shot would definitely kill them if the invulnerability is on CD.

Rage + Quick Thinking is a health gating tactic and not shield dependent, so yes a frame will die faster than not having a shield. This is because the shield would actually fulfill a purpose and become a damage buffer.

Nightmare mode is completely irrelevant to this topic because if you have no shields, you're obviously not going to have a shield gate. So you will be oneshotted on your health.

Lets try not to move off topic.

Currently Hysteria has a delayed damage that accumulates: the damage can be large enough to 1-shot Valkyr coming out of Hysteria Full Shields and all.

(Punishment for not killing the enemies)*

If all that damage is going to be applied to the Shield-gate that basically just changes Hysteria's delayed damage to being a loss of Shields when Hysteria ends rather than an actual threat to her health/potential 1-shot for being AFK accumulating damage

@10 energy to cast that is 415 remaining energy (Primed Flow) with .63 energy drain per second so roughly 11mins of Hysteria...

All damage accumulated would only go to her Shield and not health with 'Shield-gate' protecting her from single damage 1-shot.

That is a buff from current delayed damage mechanic.

Removes the potential death penalty for not taking stored damage and staying in harm.

Please change title to Shield-gate mechanic and not Anti-1 shot mechanics if the only purpose of the thread is Shield-gating and not actually addressing a way to circumvent 1-shot mechanics.

Quick-Thinking is sort-of a Health Gate unless damage is too great or game lags and decides you go into Bleedout with a Full Energy bar

Burst large damage Toxin will still bypass Shield-gate so players will still get 1-shotted by Toxin Ancients or Juggernauts or Toxin-Sortie Ballistias since this Thread is only about Shield-gate and not actually about protecting from all 1-shot mechanics in the game.

It would help with Bombs & Fire pit in LoR if you still have Shields, so that is a plus.

Edited December 24, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[EmptyDevil]

Currently Hysteria has a delayed damage that accumulates: the damage can be large enough to 1-shot Valkyr coming out of Hysteria Full Shields and all.

(Punishment for not killing the enemies)*

If all that damage is going to be applied to the Shield-gate that basically just changes Hysteria's delayed damage to being a loss of Shields when Hysteria ends rather than an actual threat to her health/potential 1-shot for being AFK accumulating damage

@10 energy to cast that is 415 remaining energy (Primed Flow) with .63 energy drain per second so roughly 11mins of Hysteria...

All damage accumulated would only go to her Shield and not health with 'Shield-gate' protecting her from single damage 1-shot.

That is a buff from current delayed damage mechanic.

 

I see what you're referring to now. It wouldn't be a buff and i'll explain why with the following example:

 

- Valkyr has 150300.

 

- Valkyr uses Hysteria to become invulnerable.

 

- Valkyr's shield collapse immunity is flagged as active for the duration of hysteria.

 

- Valkyr accumulates 2,100 damage while Hysteria is active.(Keep in mind that she only receives 25% of this damage if enemies are within her aura) 

 

- Valkyr toggles Hysteria off while enemies are within Hysteria's aura.

 

- Valkyr's shield collapse invulnerability immediately goes into cooldown.

 

- Valkyr's receives 525 damage out of the amount she accumulated and her shields are immediately destroyed.

 

- The enemies shoot at Valkyr and she immediately takes health damage because the shield collapse invulnerability is on cooldown.

 

- She is susceptible to death if she does not defuse the situation quickly.

 

 

Removes the potential death penalty for not taking stored damage and staying in harm.

 

 

The threat of death remains very real from the way i detailed the mechanic. That Hysteria drawback is a damage penalty, not a death penalty. If it were intended to kill her, she would receive 100% of the stored damage.

 

 

Please change title to Shield-gate mechanic and not Anti-1 shot mechanics if the only purpose of the thread is Shield-gating and not actually addressing a way to circumvent 1-shot mechanics.

 

 

A shield gate is a way to circumvent oneshots from sources of damage that don't bypass shields altogether. Though i suppose a rename or new thread would make more sense.

 

 

Burst large damage Toxin will still bypass Shield-gate so players will still get 1-shotted by Toxin Ancients or Juggernauts or Toxin-Sortie Ballistias since this Thread is only about Shield-gate and not actually about protecting from all 1-shot mechanics in the game.

 

 

All shield bypassing effects are fair game to ignoring a shield gate. There are also very few instances of pure toxin based attacks. We can't make things easy by blocking toxin damage or slash procs with shields.

[Maicael]

Currently Hysteria has a delayed damage that accumulates: the damage can be large enough to 1-shot Valkyr coming out of Hysteria Full Shields and all.

(Punishment for not killing the enemies)*

If all that damage is going to be applied to the Shield-gate that basically just changes Hysteria's delayed damage to being a loss of Shields when Hysteria ends rather than an actual threat to her health/potential 1-shot for being AFK accumulating damage

@10 energy to cast that is 415 remaining energy (Primed Flow) with .63 energy drain per second so roughly 11mins of Hysteria...

All damage accumulated would only go to her Shield and not health with 'Shield-gate' protecting her from single damage 1-shot.

That is a buff from current delayed damage mechanic.

Removes the potential death penalty for not taking stored damage and staying in harm.

Please change title to Shield-gate mechanic and not Anti-1 shot mechanics if the only purpose of the thread is Shield-gating and not actually addressing a way to circumvent 1-shot mechanics.

Quick-Thinking is sort-of a Health Gate unless damage is too great or game lags and decides you go into Bleedout with a Full Energy bar

Burst large damage Toxin will still bypass Shield-gate so players will still get 1-shotted by Toxin Ancients or Juggernauts or Toxin-Sortie Ballistias since this Thread is only about Shield-gate and not actually about protecting from all 1-shot mechanics in the game.

It would help with Bombs & Fire pit in LoR if you still have Shields, so that is a plus.

I see what you're referring to now. It wouldn't be a buff and i'll explain why with the following example:

 

- Valkyr has 150300.

 

- Valkyr uses Hysteria to become invulnerable.

 

- Valkyr's shield collapse immunity is flagged as active for the duration of hysteria.

 

- Valkyr accumulates 2,100 damage while Hysteria is active.(Keep in mind that she only receives 25% of this damage if enemies are within her aura) 

 

- Valkyr toggles Hysteria off while enemies are within Hysteria's aura.

 

- Valkyr's shield collapse invulnerability immediately goes into cooldown.

 

- Valkyr's receives 525 damage out of the amount she accumulated and her shields are immediately destroyed.

 

- The enemies shoot at Valkyr and she immediately takes health damage because the shield collapse invulnerability is on cooldown.

 

- She is susceptible to death if she does not defuse the situation quickly.

 

-snip-

Seems to me like y'all are disagreeing on pretty specific aspects of the shield-gate that more than likely DE would look at before implementing. Remember this should be an overall idea(that I agree could be a good addition to the game) and leave the specifics to DE.

 

In regards to your qualm with Valkyr's Hysteria, I think a simple solution to all of it: Self-harm damage is excluded from shield-gating. (To me Hysteria's stored damage would count as self-harm since the ability "stores" it even though it's stored from enemy damage.)

 

Edit: This would also prevent "free" shots from weapons like Penta, Ogris, Kulstar, etc.

Edited December 25, 2015 by Maicael

[EmptyDevil]

Seems to me like y'all are disagreeing on pretty specific aspects of the shield-gate that more than likely DE would look at before implementing. Remember this should be an overall idea(that I agree could be a good addition to the game) and leave the specifics to DE.

 

In regards to your qualm with Valkyr's Hysteria, I think a simple solution to all of it: Self-harm damage is excluded from shield-gating. (To me Hysteria's stored damage would count as self-harm since the ability "stores" it even though it's stored from enemy damage.)

 

Edit: This would also prevent "free" shots from weapons like Penta, Ogris, Kulstar, etc.

 

True, i was just showing him my POV on how it could easily be balanced.

 

You brought up a very good point that i completely overlooked. I agree that self-harm damage should be excluded from shield gates to prevent abuse.

 

I also realized that shield gates would make radiation procs more forgiving while keeping their threat.

Edited December 25, 2015 by EmptyDevil

[Swailwort]

This would mean this mechanic should also apply to Corpus, which is a HUGE NOPE for me. Ever.

[Maicael]

This would mean this mechanic should also apply to Corpus, which is a HUGE NOPE for me. Ever.

That was already discussed, and no it wouldn't need to apply to Corpus, you know, because they can reach infinite shields/health like other enemies. Just because it applies to players does not mean it would have to apply to enemies as well and the reverse is also true.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

I was thinking more along the lines of the excessive delayed damage, which honestly is an issue with Hysteria.

[Hysteria functioning more like Defy but still including innate 5% LifeSteal, Status Immunity and Knockdown Immunity would seem more balanced to me]*

Excessive delayed damage (skip fast forward ahead

-That would be 25% of millions of damage only applied to her Shields

If Self-harm is exempt then she still gets 1-shotted by her ability ending. (Being reckless)

Edited December 25, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[kleerr2]

Woah guys, have you never used the ''Guardian'' sentinel mod? If not, you should...

[viperveteran]

I would prefer they introduce shield gating from mass effect tbh. At least that way you can choose to react when your shields go down and not get insta downed by something you didn't even see.

 

I have been running around with quick thinking full health, shields and energy and bang dead in one shot.

[Maicael]

I was thinking more along the lines of the excessive delayed damage, which honestly is an issue with Hysteria.

[Hysteria functioning more like Defy but still including innate 5% LifeSteal, Status Immunity and Knockdown Immunity would seem more balanced to me]*

Excessive delayed damage (skip fast forward ahead

-That would be 25% of millions of damage only applied to her Shields

If Self-harm is exempt then she still gets 1-shotted by her ability ending. (Being reckless)

If you're ability deactivates with enemies around and you've stored enough damage to one-shot her, then that's too bad. That's like launching Penta grenades, standing on where they landed, and detonating them, especially now that Hysteria isn't Duration-based. There's plenty of places to get away from enemies since you can climb any wall as high as needed before deactivating(on tiles that are tall enough).

Woah guys, have you never used the ''Guardian'' sentinel mod? If not, you should...

Two things to note about that though:

1) That has a cooldown of 30 seconds and doesn't prevent one-shots like OP is talking about

2) If you're at the point that some enemies are killing you in one hit most likely your Sentinel has been destroyed(both times if you have Regen)

[(PSN)MrNishi]

If you're ability deactivates with enemies around and you've stored enough damage to one-shot her, then that's too bad. That's like launching Penta grenades, standing on where they landed, and detonating them, especially now that Hysteria isn't Duration-based. There's plenty of places to get away from enemies since you can climb any wall as high as needed before deactivating(on tiles that are tall enough).

Yeah I agree that a player should be punished (die) for just carelessly taking millions of deferred damage.

But the suggestion presented was they while Invulnerability Shield-gate would be on Cooldown, but any 'Shields' would still Gate the damage to not be a One-shot.

(Without the Self-harm fix added in)

That was why I was saying it would be broken if Hysteria's delayed damage was negated by Shield-gate....

Just like WuKong Defy could eat a bullet for 1k damage to Shields (only Shields would be drained) and then another 1k Bullet would trigger Defy Proc granting current Defy Invincibility window. Which if longer than 3secs means process repeats where 1-shot high level damage on WuKong doesn't need Shield Gate Invincibility just needs Shields to eat a 1-shot to cover refreshing Defy cast.

Basically these frames most likely do not need Shield Gate nor Shield-gate Invincibility window, as the benefit to them would be unblanaced and allow further survivability issues when Players are in content where every Enemy attack should be a 1-shot. Other frames would get 2-shot and Valkyr/WuKong would still be Invincible.

Mag/Trinity/Equinox being able to spam healing Shields could still use Shields to eat damage. (But it would be the same effectiveness as only healing Defense/Excavator with Shield Polarize : Think Shield 1-shots but continually restoring the Shields to stay alive.) Arcane Barrier..FTW

Not needing the Shield-gate Invincibility, but just allowing Shields themsleves to not have damage pour-over into health.

[tnccs215]

I've run 2 hour t4s pub groups with NO CC or any real team synergy. The whole thing seems unneccesary in the first place.

With what frame? You cant claim a fit and not give its details.

[tnccs215]

Mag/Trinity/Equinox being able to spam healing Shields could still use Shields to eat damage. (But it would be the same effectiveness as only healing Defense/Excavator with Shield Polarize : Think Shield 1-shots but continually restoring the Shields to stay alive.) Arcane Barrier..FTW

Not needing the Shield-gate Invincibility, but just allowing Shields themsleves to not have damage pour-over into health.

You forget the 10 second cooldown. If they insta recharged them, they could still get one shoted due to the simple fact that the shield gate wouldnt activate.

I simply think Empty_Devil got it Right. Gurl/Boy, you should make a thread about it and develop it more. This thrrad has basicaly derailed into one about it.

[ashrah]

high level balista can 1 shot u.. in split sec