Limbo, The Other Side Of The Coin.

[MokutoBunshi]

Edit: (For a complete idea of what this thread is about please see post 115: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/590854-limbo-the-other-side-of-the-coin/page-6#entry6802947 )

 

When you say worst frame in the game. People will usually think: Limbo.

 

The purpose of this thread is to show why I believe that with a little modding and play style changes, he does not have to be.

 

I will start with a big reason I use him.

 

Here is a build with a little bit of power strength:

 

Now read The rift surge ability:

 

That right there, is a big reason to use limbo. I can increase that boost to crazy amounts.

 

The current damage booster frame of choice is mirage:

 

Mirage projects 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 holographic mirror images that follow and mimic her actions for 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 seconds. Each hologram is invulnerable to damage, draws enemy attention, and deals 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% of the current weapon's total damage.

 

And she cant do nearly as much damage as limbo (according to the wiki).

 

A second point is that not only he, but his teammates can use the rift to be virtually invincible to all damage for a short period while also gaining energy (and 25% health if heaven is equipped). This can be used to get Tenno out of sticky situations. As well as to protect, capture targets.

 

 

 

I will post the next point, possibly as a video showing how he can be used well.

 

 

]\'[okuto Bunshi

 

Peace out.

Edited January 29, 2016 by MokutoBunshi

[Phailberry]

Very well done, i use limbo in a very similar way, a sort of Executioner type Limbo you could say. +1 for you ^__^

[MokutoBunshi]

Very well done, i use limbo in a very similar way, a sort of Executioner type Limbo you could say. +1 for you ^__^

I have a build I call brawler limbo. I use the Obex (for fun) Rift torrent and quick-thinking along with quickening beserker. To make the most of enemies in the cataclysm. High speed ball of maddening impact. Anything that comes in is toast, perfect for defending hallways and other areas.

 

]\'[

[Kintair]

The problem with this is that it requires you to keep *two* duration-based abilities constantly up, while constantly casting a third on things you want to attack. Yes, it's powerful, possibly rightfully so, but it gets to be such a pain since if any one of these things fails, you could do either regular or NO damage until you get yourself tooled up again.

 

I, honestly, would rather have Limbo's damage boost in the Rift be a passive of some description, if still moddable. Just have him naturally deal more damage while in the Rift, no ability required. This would free up Rift Surge to do something else, possibly what I thought it was when I first heard the ability: deal damage to all enemies in the Rift. Or something else. I'm not picky.

 

Then there's the idea of combining his 1 and 2 a-la Ivara's 1, opening up a slot for something completely new as well.

 

I *like* Limbo. The concept is great, but so many of his abilities are wasted on getting things into and out of the rift that he's left with no room to do neat things with the concept.

[AstroLord]

I like Limbo too and his Top Hat.

I can say how i play Limbo in few words: Stay in Rift Walker, defeat one after the other. Banish him and target get knocked down. This give a chance to kill target by my 1Second Opticor (Love this weapon). And Limbo is the best way to revive people withouth damaging. One disvantage in my opinion is low survivability withouth riftwalker because i have no health/shields mods on Limbo. Maube this is the reason why nobody like him? Because player who play him needs Brain :P

Thank you. Bye.

[MokutoBunshi]

The problem with this is that it requires you to keep *two* duration-based abilities constantly up, while constantly casting a third on things you want to attack. Yes, it's powerful, possibly rightfully so, but it gets to be such a pain since if any one of these things fails, you could do either regular or NO damage until you get yourself tooled up again.

 

I, honestly, would rather have Limbo's damage boost in the Rift be a passive of some description, if still moddable. Just have him naturally deal more damage while in the Rift, no ability required. This would free up Rift Surge to do something else, possibly what I thought it was when I first heard the ability: deal damage to all enemies in the Rift. Or something else. I'm not picky.

 

Then there's the idea of combining his 1 and 2 a-la Ivara's 1, opening up a slot for something completely new as well.

 

I *like* Limbo. The concept is great, but so many of his abilities are wasted on getting things into and out of the rift that he's left with no room to do neat things with the concept.

I have a counter argument... But I have to go for a bit... be back.

 

]\'[

[AstroLord]

Then there's the idea of combining his 1 and 2 a-la Ivara's 1, opening up a slot for something completely new as well.

I love the idea of "New Slot" for another ability

[AXCrusnik]

The current damage booster frame of choice is mirage:

 

Mirage projects 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 holographic mirror images that follow and mimic her actions for 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 seconds. Each hologram is invulnerable to damage, draws enemy attention, and deals 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% of the current weapon's total damage.

 

And she cant do nearly as much damage as limbo (according to the wiki).

What? No mention of Eclipse/Total Eclipse? Mirrors are nice but I though TE was the reason Mirage was the "damage booster"

[CephalonHibiya]

When you say worst frame in the game. People will usually think: Limbo.

 

A second point is that not only he, but his teammates can use the rift to be virtually invincible to all damage for a short period while also gaining energy (and 25% health if heaven is equipped). This can be used to get Tenno out of sticky situations. As well as to protect, capture targets.

 

Well said, Limbo too often gets discredited as a 'useless' frame, but, he can be an invaluable team-mate, and an unbelievably effective Spy on both Corpus and Grineer vaults.

 

Side note, the augment for Limbo's first ability is "Haven".

[swizzybeatzjamz]

The problem with limbo is banishing enemies one by one when u face 180+ enemies is impractical... This is a hoard based game. I can't deal with pressing 1 180 times

[Kintair]

The problem with limbo is banishing enemies one by one when u face 180+ enemies is impractical... This is a hoard based game. I can't deal with pressing 1 180 times

That's what Cataclysm is for: it's the AoE version of his 1. Did you know that Cataclysm is an aimed power? Its origin isn't centered on Limbo. So if you have a crowd some distance away, you can cataclysm them to put them in the rift, be in the rift yourself, and attack them from a distance.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Aint you ignoring a few aspects? First off, the clones only start at 20%. Thers an augument that effectively boosts theyr damage out and mirage is able to get an additional defensive or offensive buff,next to blinding enemys, what's about the strongest CC in the game.

Next, rift surge only works for banished enemys, what basicly means cuddling enemys if you want that buff. What's bad for the glass cannon limbo who only has the option to eather: banish them one by one or to set a cataclysm, what definitly excludes the team, even if you shoot from afar riftwalking...what's not even an option if you wanna act fast.

And if you're looking for a buffer then it's banshee. Ya know, the frame that shares the buff with evryone and has about the same extend of defense as also glasscannon...even better active defense trough CC. For MORE, MUCH MORE ADDITIONAL DAMAGE. She starts where limbo ends and has means to decrease armor as well.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Point stands. Limbo is by far the worst frame in the game. His abilitys are egomanic and medicore, in a multiplayer pve game where abilitys exist that beat him in evry category.

[Pro3Display]

When you say worst frame in the game. People will usually think: Limbo.

i thought it was hydroid?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

i thought it was hydroid?

Does hydroid interrupt evryone around him while not beein helpfull? Thers also his kinda usefull loot and CC...hydroid needs work. Limbo on the other side needs his theme reworked.

[Guest]

Does hydroid interrupt evryone around him while not beein helpfull? Thers also his kinda usefull loot and CC...hydroid needs work. Limbo on the other side needs his theme reworked.

That really depends. Hydroids seem to die way too frequently in interceptions because they get out of the puddle form, but if they stay in the puddle form it's gonna cost the team more effort to actually fight off enemies. Hydroid seems to be more of a burden when compared to Limbo, simply because Limbo can create a chokehold point and fight off enemies, while Hydroid turns into a puddle that can die any second... but still, opinions are opinions. Sure, Hydroid does not interrupt everyone because he turned into a puddle, but does not really help either because once he leaves the puddle form, he'll die in like 5 secs or so and have the entire team revive him (that's sortie, not some normal trash mob missions, so I would say Hydroid is somehow good, but not THAT good). Hey, that looks like a job for Limbo the OG.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

That really depends. Hydroids seem to die way too frequently in interceptions because they get out of the puddle form, but if they stay in the puddle form it's gonna cost the team more effort to actually fight off enemies. Hydroid seems to be more of a burden when compared to Limbo, simply because Limbo can create a chokehold point and fight off enemies, while Hydroid turns into a puddle that can die any second... but still, opinions are opinions. Sure, Hydroid does not interrupt everyone because he turned into a puddle, but does not really help either because once he leaves the puddle form, he'll die in like 5 secs or so and have the entire team revive him (that's sortie, not some normal trash mob missions, so I would say Hydroid is somehow good, but not THAT good). Hey, that looks like a job for Limbo the OG.

Tentacles? Sure they wiggle them around a bit but still allow melee and explosives, whats still in the ideal, given that the probably best weapons are the tonkor and multiple melee weapons imo, depending on the frame you use. No idea whats the point of the puddle anyway. It does finisher damage but the ammount is just way too low...and its still covered by knockdowns on dive and release. Only enemys aggroing from afar are a threath. Thing is, he has something working for him, limbo doesn't. Limbo has a decent defensive ability that's missing any means of CC and acts as wall. He regenerates energy but is a hindance to weapons. Setting cataclysms forces others to step in and excludes them otherwise, defending with a cataclysm offers no cover for your team whatsoever as they are forced to step out...

Hydroid dying basicly comes down to bad choices. He can manage... the rift on the other side is messing with evryones rhytm and targets...limbo is the only one that benefits from the most part while actually interrupting evryone else..

Edited January 7, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[AstroLord]

I wish the Cataclysm will in near future knockdown enemies inside like banish. PLEASE DE why Cataclyms not Knock down enemies?

[Guest]

Tentacles? Sure they wiggle them around a bit

A BIT? That thing gives absolutely no advantage over aiming or whatsoever.

 

given that the probably best weapons are the tonkor and multiple melee weapons imo, depending on the frame you use.

Are you kidding me? Are you missing Dread? Rakta Cernos? Vaykor Marelok? Things that actually needs aiming?

 

No idea whats the point of the puddle anyway. It does finisher damage but the ammount is just way too low...and its still covered by knockdowns on dive and release. Only enemys aggroing from afar are a threath. 

+1...... Someone who noticed that. And people still use that thing as a suicide button/looter.

 

Limbo has a decent defensive ability that's missing any means of CC and acts as wall. He regenerates energy but is a hindance to weapons. Setting cataclysms forces others to step in and excludes them otherwise, defending with a cataclysm offers no cover for your team whatsoever as they are forced to step out...

No cover? Won't a reloading + energy regen zone be beneficial to the team? Isn't a Limbo sniper on a ledge, aiming inside the globe the very protection the pod needs? And do you not notice how often Frost's snow globe dies in sortie 3, even with a strength build? Limbo's the juggernaut in these situations.

 

Hydroid dying basicly comes down to bad choices. He can manage...

I can ensure you it's not about bad choices, it's about terrible base stats.

 

the rift on the other side is messing with evryones rhytm and targets...

Like how an Ember with WoF interrupts with everyone's rhythm and targets with stuff below lvl 40? Or Ash Bladestorm above lvl 40? Or even Hydroid tentacle swarm affecting everyone's aiming? Every frame can affect the battle with its own uniqueness, and you're doing a terrible job at glossing over Hydroid.

 

limbo is the only one that benefits from the most part while actually interrupting evryone else..

1. Weapon leveling

2. Rescue banish

3. Makeshift healer

4. Chokehold point control

5. Defense globe + sniping

...

Look I know how you like Hydroid and actually know how to play him, but I can name at least 5 ways of playing him with minimum interruption caused to teammates with Limbo, and I'm sure you can name it for your Hydroid. I like to play Limbo as much as you like playing your favorite frame, and if you like to play that frame, you can bet you'll find as much ways to fit in any mission as you can, which is what I'm doing right now. Sounds fair?

[hukurokuju5]

that quickthinking with no flow PLUS the fact that you'd be dropping so much energy with that level of power efficiency looks painful AF.....

 

and Mirage damage boost is mostly from eclipse....

 

 

just... 

 

what..

[Zachatoo]

That's what Cataclysm is for: it's the AoE version of his 1.

Cataclysm is way too dangerous to use offensively in endgame, once you put it up Limbo is vulnerable to their attacks and you will be instakilled. Banish has a knockdown so you have time to react, Cataclysm is only good for protecting something while you're far away (cata pod, grab an accurate single-shot weapon and snipe once they enter since they'll be aggroing the pod not you) or nuking low-levels.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

A BIT? That thing gives absolutely no advantage over aiming or whatsoever.

Are you kidding me? Are you missing Dread? Rakta Cernos? Vaykor Marelok? Things that actually needs aiming?

+1...... Someone who noticed that. And people still use that thing as a suicide button/looter.

No cover? Won't a reloading + energy regen zone be beneficial to the team? Isn't a Limbo sniper on a ledge, aiming inside the globe the very protection the pod needs? And do you not notice how often Frost's snow globe dies in sortie 3, even with a strength build? Limbo's the juggernaut in these situations.

I can ensure you it's not about bad choices, it's about terrible base stats.

Like how an Ember with WoF interrupts with everyone's rhythm and targets with stuff below lvl 40? Or Ash Bladestorm above lvl 40? Or even Hydroid tentacle swarm affecting everyone's aiming? Every frame can affect the battle with its own uniqueness, and you're doing a terrible job at glossing over Hydroid.

1. Weapon leveling

2. Rescue banish

3. Makeshift healer

4. Chokehold point control

5. Defense globe + sniping

...

Look I know how you like Hydroid and actually know how to play him, but I can name at least 5 ways of playing him with minimum interruption caused to teammates with Limbo, and I'm sure you can name it for your Hydroid. I like to play Limbo as much as you like playing your favorite frame, and if you like to play that frame, you can bet you'll find as much ways to fit in any mission as you can, which is what I'm doing right now. Sounds fair?

Ember and ash? You mean by killing stuff? Rly?... i've also never seen someone going into the endgame with a dread, aside from fun of course. You have also the option to shoot trough these things as they're no actuall obstacles to a approaching wave.

For whatever reason a frost would build for strength for the globe btw. He needs nothing but efficiency as that thing scales from incomming damage. Spamming the globe with a 3second delay under heavy fire makes it more or less invincible to following incomming damage. Offering CC on entrance and in range, even percentuall damage and a knockback on recast, not interrupting from the inside. There is just NOTHING that makes cataclysm superior to snowglobe. Sry but that's how it is.

Look, i can respect that you know and like to play limbo. Point is, you might be the only one in a team that thinks that way and a rework would him do real good. Just immagine the rift working completely different, for example by reducing and amplyfying damage on entrance and creating a bigger gap if both partys are affected. Cataclysm creating a battle area for evryone to use, rift surge pushing both your offense and defense and sharing these benefits with evryone in the rift.. thers just soo much options to a rift-theme and DE choose the most user unfriendly one, whats just a shame as i rly like it. I'd therefore rly appreciate if you'd stop playing the issues down. He has issues.

Edited January 7, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Pro3Display]

Ember and ash? You mean by killing stuff? Rly?... i've also never seen someone going into the endgame with a dread, aside from fun of course. You have also the option to shoot trough these things as they're no actuall obstacles to a approaching wave.

For whatever reason a frost would build for strength for the globe btw. He needs nothing but efficiency as that thing scales from incomming damage. Spamming the globe with a 3second delay under heavy fire makes it more or less invincible to following incomming damage. Offering CC on entrance and in range, even percentuall damage and a knockback on recast, not interrupting from the inside. There is just NOTHING that makes cataclysm superior to snowglobe. Sry but that's how it is.

Look, i can respect that you know and like to play limbo. Point is, you might be the only one in a team that thinks that way and a rework would him do real good. Just immagine the rift working completely different, for example by reducing and amplyfying damage on entrance and creating a bigger gap if both partys are affected. Cataclysm creating a battle area for evryone to use, rift surge pushing both your offense and defense and sharing these benefits with evryone in the rift.. thers just soo much options to a rift-theme and DE choose the most user unfriendly one, whats just a shame as i rly like it. I'd therefore rly appreciate if you'd stop playing the issues down. He has issues.

badness of limbo is badness of it's pilot, limbo is a frame with high skill cap, and in dividing the battlefield he is king.

limbo is not useless, useless is one playing him badly.

only thing is with limbo by playing badly one can make more harm rather than just not having an input into the teams effort

by the way loki can be harmful in some cases of radial disarm too, but that's rare

limbo is just not for pubs, or if you want to play limbo in pub you need to think of every action your team can make to not get in the way of it

that's all there is to it

he is strong, just not for everyone.

 

on the other hand hydroid is just bad:

absolute glass

abilities deal negligible damage

tentacles interrupt aiming

puddle prevent enemies from being killed

i admit he can cut off a group of enemies, pretty much like limbo, when it is needed, but most of the times it just prevents their death

at least limbo doesn't make them absolutely invincible, though he doesn't stop them from shooting either, but that's still is taken care of by tanks/healers

hydroid just not worth the effort of bringing him in

[(PSN)OmegAmorbis]

I wish the Cataclysm will in near future knockdown enemies inside like banish. PLEASE DE why Cataclyms not Knock down enemies?

 

This is one of the changes I absolutely want Limbo to get. It seems weird to me that Banish knocks enemies down, but Cataclysm doesn't. A little cc would help that skill immensely imo, particularly in defense type missions.

[hukurokuju5]

ENEMY KNOCKDOWN ON ENTRY OR EXIT OF RIFT

 

PLAYER SHORT DAMAGE REDUCTION ON ENTRY OR EXIT OF RIFT

 

 

EZ PZ FIX