Limbo, The Other Side Of The Coin.

[AstroLord]

Bad players are burdens to teams. Any 'Frame in the hands of a good player can be an asset to a team when used properly.

On this topic we can End. Thank you :D.

[MirageKnight]

This guy nailed it in another thread

It isn't some player issue as there is just no good way to play him without interrupting anyone. Simply bc thats how he was designed.

 

You do realize that you're just using someone else's opinion (that you agree with) to back up your own, right?

 

I don't deny that Limbo could probably benefit from a couple of tweaks here and there, but to say that Limbo IS awful and say (or at least strongly imply) that Limbo always ruins team games is a bit incredulous.

 

But hey, I have my observations and opinions and you have yours.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Would anyone be opposed to the idea of Limbo gaining insane armor while using Rift Surge instead of attack power?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

You do realize that you're just using someone else's opinion (that you agree with) to back up your own, right?

I don't deny that Limbo could probably benefit from a couple of tweaks here and there, but to say that Limbo IS awful and say (or at least strongly imply) that Limbo always ruins team games is a bit incredulous.

But hey, I have my observations and opinions and you have yours.

Is there a reason for me not to?english isn't my native language so i rather quote someone who summs up my standpoint then bother with the alternative.

There is no good limbo player... you'd litteraly have to read evryones mind or play solo in your own territory to play him good, what leaves what exactly? Survivals? Solo gameplay? as potential playground he can perform on. He is DEFINITLY interrupting evrything else around him when he is close to someone.

Whats the alternative that includes teamplay? Staying in riftwalk and tank bullets? Valkyr does it better and that's nothing one could call performance eather.

His abilitys are not designed to offer team utility and it's impossible to play him accordingly. The oppinion that skill has influence on how well he performs is therefore not only biased but flawed to the core.

I believe that thers truth in your words as it reflects what you experienced but please note that YOUR experience as limbo player differs from the experience of evryone around you as his kit only leaves a negative impact on others, not yourself. Please trust these people. Trust me. We ain't lying or exagerating eather.

Edited January 19, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Derped. Off topic.

Edited January 19, 2016 by (PS4)RenovaKunumaru

[MokutoBunshi]

Excuse me fellas but um...

 

 

This thread's purpose is NOT to debate IF limbo is useful or not rather it is to show WHAT he IS capable of doing.

 

Right or wrong what you guys are saying is going off topic.

 

]\'[

[YasaiTsume]

Excuse me fellas but um...

 

 

This thread's purpose is NOT to debate IF limbo is useful or not rather it is to show WHAT he IS capable of doing.

 

Right or wrong what you guys are saying is going off topic.

 

]\'[

With all respect, if what he is capable of doing has conditions, the Most Effective Tactic Available (META) would be to pick something that doesn't have tied in conditions,

Example, using Mirage as comparison, I can deal more damage on more enemies consistantly without having to put them into the Rift first, and lets be real, Limbo has always been a closed door that refused to be opened by any other player that isn't Limbo. 

 

 

Limbo has his niche, and he is super good at some roles, but trying to sell him off as a meta is not gonna be taken seriously.

I still think Limbo needs to be Equinox'd and given dual ability sets to fill in his capacity to Rift Jump, rather than make him a haunted house that pulls people into his domain.

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

Excuse me fellas but um...

 

 

This thread's purpose is NOT to debate IF limbo is useful or not rather it is to show WHAT he IS capable of doing.

 

Right or wrong what you guys are saying is going off topic.

 

]\'[

Woops, my bad.

Limbo plays pretty well when using Catalysm from far and sniping his targets that walk into it. Also a Life strike Jat combo with him allows him some decent dps on non end game content.

He is the king of Corpus Spy missions but with my experience, that's as far as he goes.

[MirageKnight]

Played right, he's also useful on Rescue missions: Banish the guards so they can't set off alarms and then kill them in the Rift, Banish Prisoner so they don't take damage, etc.

 

On Extraction, Interception, Survival and Defensive missions, good timing with Cataclysm can really help thin out incoming mobs while interfering very little with the team's ability to pick up any drops, Banish can be used to weaken and completely remove dangerous enemies from the battle until you're ready to deal with them - or protect a player from dying.

[(XBOX)VenomousBanshee]

When you say worst frame in the game. People will usually think: Limbo.

 

The purpose of this thread is to show why I believe that with a little modding and play style changes, he does not have to be.

 

I will start with a big reason I use him.

 

Here is a build with a little bit of power strength:

 

 

Now read The rift surge ability:

 

That right there, is a big reason to use limbo. I can increase that boost to crazy amounts.

 

The current damage booster frame of choice is mirage:

 

Mirage projects 1 / 2 / 3 / 4 holographic mirror images that follow and mimic her actions for 10 / 15 / 20 / 25 seconds. Each hologram is invulnerable to damage, draws enemy attention, and deals 5% / 10% / 15% / 20% of the current weapon's total damage.

 

And she cant do nearly as much damage as limbo (according to the wiki).

 

people don't realize that rift surge is additive damage not multiplicitve meaning it is a waste because it only adds, in your case, about 500-600 dmg instead of multiplying it.

[MokutoBunshi]

With all respect, if what he is capable of doing has conditions, the Most Effective Tactic Available (META) would be to pick something that doesn't have tied in conditions,

Example, using Mirage as comparison, I can deal more damage on more enemies consistantly without having to put them into the Rift first, and lets be real, Limbo has always been a closed door that refused to be opened by any other player that isn't Limbo. 

 

 

Limbo has his niche, and he is super good at some roles, but trying to sell him off as a meta is not gonna be taken seriously.

I still think Limbo needs to be Equinox'd and given dual ability sets to fill in his capacity to Rift Jump, rather than make him a haunted house that pulls people into his domain.

Here is an example of what I mean:

 

#1 Limbo is an exceptionally niche frame but he is good a sabotage as he can run to the target in the rift, then further destroying while staying in the rift using cataclysm.

 

#2 Also, Limbo may not be able to use many weapons while in the rift (if any) but castana/talon type weapons can still trigger in the rift without causing him harm. This allows him to plant them at his feet and escape to the rift drawing in enemies and further destroying or at least knocking them down so that he has time to make use of rift surge and finisher damage to quickly end a high level situation.

 

#3 Another thing limbo is good at is using his energy as backup health using rage+quickthinking+energy siphon he can stay either in the rift of come out able to escape back even at very low health. This is especially useful in no-shield nightmare missions because he can act as a carry for the team when reviving especially when he uses (vasarin?) to revive faster. (He can even do most of the killing using his cataclysm if its against corpus.

 

And here is a secret one I will throw in because I wanna see more people testing him out:

 

#4 Limbo also has a complicated method to kill bosses using cataclysm that can (theoretically) one shot bosses and requires a team formation of mag, hydroid and trinity that I call the battery effect. All that is needed is to give your limbo rift torrent before a match. After that assemble a team and bring a good Damage weapon (like the opticore of a strong bow or shot gun or explosive etc...).

 

Once the mission starts, choose a spot on the boss level to open a cataclysm and instruct hydroid to collect enemies inside using mag to pull in the minions. Hydroid will gain enough energy from the cataclysm to stay as a pool, mag will not gain enough energy to keep pulling though.

Trinity provides the team with energy; she is needed to get max effect here (the cataclysm mostly protects mag). Mean while limbo agros the boss.

 

Once there are over..I dunno 100 or so enemies in the pool? bring the boss in that cataclysm. Then activate your Rift surge Torrent aim and FIRE!

 

This works on any boss at all so long as there are minions that can be sucked in the pool. It can be changed up a bit but this tends to work best.

 

Does the boss have multiple stages? No problem! Charge the battery and repeat!

 

Also, make sure to follow the proper procedure when disposing of batteries ;)

 

Once you kill the boss make sure trin is backing the team up and get ready to eliminate the enemies (If you have an AOE weapon just do the same thing you did to the boss).

 

 

This method has been tested and proved. But do you see what it does? It takes 3 warframes people say need work (mag, hydroid and limbo) adds what they ARE good at with a trin and you have a unique, elaborate, effective and fun way to do something that involves the whole team... Like taking down any boss.

 

And I got plenty more things I use limbo with as well. Thats the kind of constructive discussion I was hoping for here.

 

]\'[

[ScribbleClash]

Excuse me fellas but um...

 

 

This thread's purpose is NOT to debate IF limbo is useful or not rather it is to show WHAT he IS capable of doing.

 

Right or wrong what you guys are saying is going off topic.

 

]\'[

[...] The purpose of this thread is to show why I believe that with a little modding and play style changes, he does not have to be.[...]

No, according to this here the purpose of it is to give your opinion on the frame and why some mods improve him.

If we keep to that then we can just close the thread as your single post at the start is the only thing on topic.

 

Going further, if you say X is capable of something, you gotta expect others to try to disprove it. If you want a one sided argument then this is whole thread is pointless.

For Limbo I'd rather call it restrictions than capabilities to begin with.

[achromos]

Oh look, we have a "mastered le hard warframe" player! I bet you feel proud and consider yourself a useful asset when people in pub manage to beat a sortie with you in the team.

 

When the other three are periodically dropping to the ground like they are drunk?  I bet a limbo feels useful, especially in sorties.  If you've pub sorties, especially survival sorties, being able to revive people with 99% impunity is a godsend, however...  I think a lot of people already have made the case of Limbo's usefulness, it takes a player to know how/when to use his abilities and think ahead. 

 

Am I saying that forethought and knowledge is being appropriately rewarded?  No.  Especially when if I wanted to I can bring Wukong or Valkyr, to be a res-bot, or I can play any other frame like Mag vs corpus, or Saryn vs anything and reduce their hp to half and make the map THAT much easier for my team, Limbo feels like you have to jump through so many more hoops just to be 3/4 as useful as any other frame, and while he can be passable, I feel he needs a buff.

[MokutoBunshi]

[...] The purpose of this thread is to show why I believe that with a little modding and play style changes, he does not have to be.[...]

No, according to this here the purpose of it is to give your opinion on the frame and why some mods improve him.

If we keep to that then we can just close the thread as your single post at the start is the only thing on topic.

 

Going further, if you say X is capable of something, you gotta expect others to try to disprove it. If you want a one sided argument then this is whole thread is pointless.

For Limbo I'd rather call it restrictions than capabilities to begin with.

I am trying to reduce potential anger in the thread(debate is good, but not people yelling in type) . and with both statements I want to show what limbo IS good for and how to better make him useful and what sitiuations he can be used in.

 

]\'[

[vitmerc]

For a start, a friend of mine mains limbo, and he is successful at it.

 

I, at one point, came up with this change:

 

Remove current functionality of RIft Surge.

Damage boost in rift is now passive, works on allies and you.

Damage boost is 3x and is not subject to power strength.

 

Rift surge now does:

All entities in the rift, including Limbo, are thrown out of the rift violently.

They recieve N finisher damage and an impact proc.

Subject to PowerStr

N should be enough to rip trash mobs at level 50, but not in a sortie environment.

 

Augment: Rift Torrent

Allies that were affected by Rift Surge, 

Gain a 50% total damage increase for 10 seconds.

Edited January 20, 2016 by vitmerc

[MokutoBunshi]

For a start, a friend of mine mains limbo, and he is successful at it.

 

I, at one point, came up with this change:

 

Remove current functionality of RIft Surge.

Damage boost in rift is now passive, works on allies and you.

Damage boost is 3x and is not subject to power strength.

 

Rift surge now does:

All entities in the rift, including Limbo, are thrown out of the rift violently.

They recieve N finisher damage and an impact proc.

Subject to PowerStr

N should be enough to rip trash mobs at level 50, but not in a sortie environment.

 

Augment: Rift Torrent

Allies that were affected by Rift Surge, 

Gain a 50% total damage increase for 10 seconds.

VERY interesting and ORIGINAL ideas :) But it would also be cool for you to give limbo tips or like ow your friend plays limbo... so you stay close to topic.

 

]\'[

[Guest]

For a start, a friend of mine mains limbo, and he is successful at it.

 

I, at one point, came up with this change:

 

Remove current functionality of RIft Surge.

Damage boost in rift is now passive, works on allies and you.

Damage boost is 3x and is not subject to power strength.

 

Rift surge now does:

All entities in the rift, including Limbo, are thrown out of the rift violently.

They recieve N finisher damage and an impact proc.

Subject to PowerStr

N should be enough to rip trash mobs at level 50, but not in a sortie environment.

 

Augment: Rift Torrent

Allies that were affected by Rift Surge, 

Gain a 50% total damage increase for 10 seconds.

Cool ideas... except...

1)OP is using a 5.28 rift surge with power strength for an executioner build. Maybe not passive damage 3x? I don't wanna piss off OP so...

2) Your rift surge is literally an easy access DD. Which means making him a damage dealing frame with max range cataclysm and rift surge. Also, I don't know your friend, but I rely on the rift/material plane separation mechanic to survive with Limbo so I don't need to add in additional survival mods to buff Limbo's already poor survivability (because he's invulnerable with rift walk, that's why). Throwing Limbo out of the Rift will result in direct enemy exposure and leaving Limbo open if some adds happen to wander in. Similar to cataclysm cast time leaving Limbo vulnerable. Also the damage increase is a bit too drastic.

Edited January 20, 2016 by Guest

[MokutoBunshi]

Cool ideas... except...

1)OP is using a 5.28 rift surge with power strength for an executioner build. Maybe not passive damage 3x? I don't wanna piss off OP so...

2) Your rift surge is literally an easy access DD. Which means making him a damage dealing frame with max range cataclysm and rift surge. Also, I don't know your friend, but I rely on the rift/material plane separation mechanic to survive with Limbo so I don't need to add in additional survival mods to buff Limbo's already poor survivability (because he's invulnerable with rift walk, that's why). Throwing Limbo out of the Rift will result in direct enemy exposure and leaving Limbo open if some adds happen to wander in. Similar to cataclysm cast time leaving Limbo vulnerable. Also the damage increase is a bit too drastic.

Don't worry. Not much bothers me.

 

Also, in its CURRENT state, those mechanics may not work. But if the limbo play style was changed that could actually be something.

 

]\'[

[(PSN)RenovaKunumaru]

I suggest unless you're a sniping Limbo, to have negative Range. Makes handling enemies in -Catalysm so much more manageable with melee.

[MokutoBunshi]

I suggest unless you're a sniping Limbo, to have negative Range. Makes handling enemies in -Catalysm so much more manageable with melee.

The reason I don't is ONLY because rift surge needs it for this build. So instead I rely on VERY fast and effective grinner killing weapons like the dark dagger with corrosive. Or orokin killing weapons...cause other than sentient...what else is there? XD

 

]\'[

[Aurruxco]

Would anyone be opposed to the idea of Limbo gaining insane armor while using Rift Surge instead of attack power?

why not both? I mean he's the only one getting the buffs, that shouldn't make the skill OP

[Vance.Stubbs]

Am I saying that forethought and knowledge is being appropriately rewarded?  No.  Especially when if I wanted to I can bring Wukong or Valkyr, to be a res-bot, or I can play any other frame like Mag vs corpus, or Saryn vs anything and reduce their hp to half and make the map THAT much easier for my team, Limbo feels like you have to jump through so many more hoops just to be 3/4 as useful as any other frame, and while he can be passable, I feel he needs a buff.

 

That's the point. There are better tanky\invis Warframes for ressing while being able to do massive damage or\an CC (Chroma, Wukong, Valkyr, Loki, Ash, etc).

 

TBH Limbo feels like a trolling from DE to make some "advanced" players feel somehow superior because they can barely do the job with putting several times more required effort into it. 

 

Limbo needs a massive rework.

[MokutoBunshi]

why not both? I mean he's the only one getting the buffs, that shouldn't make the skill OP

 

That's the point. There are better tanky\invis Warframes for ressing while being able to do massive damage or\an CC (Chroma, Wukong, Valkyr, Loki, Ash, etc).

 

TBH Limbo feels like a trolling from DE to make some "advanced" players feel somehow superior because they can barely do the job with putting several times more required effort into it. 

 

Limbo needs a massive rework.

Guys....this is NOT a limbo rework thread. Does he need a rework? YES. But this thread is how to use him currently!

 

]\'[

[Aurruxco]

touchè.... 

[Guest]

tl;dr:

- Limbo has an incredible number of uses that have yet to be discovered, and that's a treat for me in the normally grindy Warframe.

- Limbo introduces me to different playstyles, and I grasped the feeling of being a rookie and having to learn everything from scratch once more, and I like it.

- Sure, there are a few tweaks handy for Limbo, which I myself, for one, approve of, but all I see are rework threads with drastic changes to his powers, ranging from portals to easy access nuking and even teleportation and switching in and out of the rift while doing so. I'm not really sure if this is going to work for me.

-Since DE's rework went so bad with Excalibur (2 of 4 abilities are unusable because they have an LoS limitation which kinda screws them over. LoS is known for being inaccurate even though the target is directly in the line of sight, and some frames like Loki might have issues with it when using switch teleport), I'm afraid that the Limbo after the rework would lack synergy and be another generic frame, like Mirage's blind bot or Trinity's "EV TRIN Y U NO EV I DON'T HAVE ENERGY" bot (Trinity players get booted by this a lot) or even Loki's disarm + radiation proc bot. Maybe the problem's with the word "rework" that freaks me out.

Edited January 28, 2016 by Guest