Taranis49 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I hate to do this but... Ignis looks like a flamethrower to me. It's affected by bullet attractor; the name of which is self-explanatory. Which means the Ignis can't be a flamethrower, since it evidently fires bullets. Your turn. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V101 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 what the ignis really needs is an aparience change, i mean, a moded grakata? really? where are the fuel tanks ? ...checkout my flamethrower https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/17850-grineer-alternative-weapons-sugestion-fanart/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webly Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 what the ignis really needs is an aparience change, i mean, a moded grakata? really? where are the fuel tanks ? ... checkout my flamethrower https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/17850-grineer-alternative-weapons-sugestion-fanart/ That looks pretty good man, I still think the mechanics of the Ignis need to change though (see the first post, pic). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V101 Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) yeah i know it should, but not that "conic" shape, if you see flamethrowers, they fire in lines, because is the fuel burning, yet it should have a bit more spread Edited June 17, 2013 by V101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeadlyNerd Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 Most games never do flamethrowers justice. I've played so many damn shooters and not a single one strikes me out as "oh snap that was a hell of a flame thrower". They all tend to suck. A good shotgun? Soldier of Fortune. A good rocket launcher? Half-Life, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam, UT2k4 A good sniper? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (gauss rifle), Quake 3 Arena, UT2k4 A good pistol? Half-Life, dat Colt Python etc etc. I can never think of a game where I was, oh hey that was so good I actually wanted to use it. Even in far cry I couldn't be bothered. You obviously haven't played RTCW. Game's hella old but it has THE best flamethrower effect so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webly Posted June 17, 2013 Author Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) yeah i know it should, but not that "conic" shape, if you see flamethrowers, they fire in lines, because is the fuel burning, yet it should have a bit more spread I suggest the conic shape because it's proven to be the most fun type of flamethrower in video games. Realistic doesn't necessarily mean fun. But if we want to continue arguing for realism in our spaceninja game, most military flammenwerfers might shoot long, skinny jets of fire, but most homemade ones and some old military ones shoot in a short range cone of fire especially the smaller greek/byzantine fire throwers used for close up "crowd control" (this is also arguably the most prolific use of flamethrowers in history, proportionately there were more flamethrowers in use in the later greek and east roman empires than in any of the modern armies that have since made flamethrowers iconic). And one more thing, the Ignis hardly looks like the "REAL" flamethrowers that have been continually linked in this thread, if anything it looks like it'd work off flammable pressurized gas (which could fit in the Ignis's small size) as opposed to ignited liquid propellant (which WOULD and still do require large WWI-WWII era tanks). That means even its looks say it would shoot in a short range cone instead of a long range steam. tl;dr Stop talking about what is REALISTIC and lets discuss what would be the most fun. Edited June 17, 2013 by Webly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBugII Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 (edited) Go through or envelop enemies so it hits enemies behind it, wha? Seriously? If a person were to body-block a flamethrower in real life, would you really think it would go through them to hit enemies behind them? Geez. If that were true, why are flame-throwers considered "crowd-control" weapons? The spread and plume of the flames would fully engulf and reach behind any single person in a matter of milliseconds. If you're looking for a less lethal approach however, stand in front of a firetruck's hose and see how wet everyone behind you gets once they stop spraying you with it. Additionally, the heat alone is enough to melt/burn flesh regardless of weather contact is made or not with the actual flames (See Also: Microwave Oven) Edited June 17, 2013 by DBugII Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Notso Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 It's affected by bullet attractor; the name of which is self-explanatory. Which means the Ignis can't be a flamethrower, since it evidently fires bullets. Your turn. :-) I'm going to assume Poe's Law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinnius Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 I wouldn't mind having this kind of range, either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HammerMill Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 The devs would need to add liquid physics to the game to make that work, which is way too much effort for one weapon. It wouldn't necessarily be for one weapon; if they put in the work it would open up possibilities for unique future weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grilleds Posted June 19, 2013 Share Posted June 19, 2013 tl;dr Stop talking about what is REALISTIC and lets discuss what would be the most fun. This needs to be on a sticked thread or something in this section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webly Posted June 24, 2013 Author Share Posted June 24, 2013 This needs to be on a sticked thread or something in this section. The entire DC and Improving Warframe section needs to have that shown whenever they post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Webly Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Flux Rifle got a buff but Ignis is still bad? The fix is clear, hell I know DE can do AoE because of the Ogris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueWhistler Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 I don't agree with the damage aspect, from what I've seen it does way more damage than the Grakata, that being said, I agree with everything else. the flame thrower should fire in a cone and be able to hit multiple clustered targets. You should also be able to use if for short term area denial by lighting sections of the floor on fire etc. The range of the Ignis is 8 ft...the range of the Grakata is...well.....much longer in comparison. Ignis should do higher damage especially when it is much riskier to use because you have to be within 8 ft to hit a single enemy. Closer if you want to hit a cluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLostReverend Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 This gun will get a buff in the future, we can all be sure of that. I just want to know when. I don't really want to agonise through leveling this up several times before I can put puncture, seration and split chamber on it, plus other damage mods only to find it gets buffed. Making the whole process a lot easier and more fun. Anyone heard any news on when this will happen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qynchou Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Most games never do flamethrowers justice. I've played so many damn shooters and not a single one strikes me out as "oh snap that was a hell of a flame thrower". They all tend to suck. A good shotgun? Soldier of Fortune. A good rocket launcher? Half-Life, Duke Nukem, Serious Sam, UT2k4 A good sniper? S.T.A.L.K.E.R. (gauss rifle), Quake 3 Arena, UT2k4 A good pistol? Half-Life, dat Colt Python etc etc. I can never think of a game where I was, oh hey that was so good I actually wanted to use it. Even in far cry I couldn't be bothered. SS:TSE, situational but very good in those cases. In general I dont like the animation flamethrowers in video games have. Its supposed to be liquid gas on fire coming out and it should be sprayed not little puffs of fire cloud chugging towards an enemy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aucran Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 They could use the same mechanic as Torrid, just put the gas cloud at the end of the muzzle and increase the size a bit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PopTartZombie Posted July 23, 2013 Share Posted July 23, 2013 Napalm fire cannon secondary plz DE. kthnx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taiiat Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) Wolfenstein, the latest one, had a fantastic flamethrower. Return to Castle Wolfenstein had one too. yeah, Wolfenstein 2009 had a really nice flamethrower. i enjoyed using it when i needed to. A small tweak of current physx effects could easily make that work. i agree, because i like PhysX particles, but you can't force everyone to use PhysX. the engine must natively support everything without the use of PhysX addons. Edited July 24, 2013 by taiiat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Shiro Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) ... i agree, because i like PhysX particles, but you can't force everyone to use PhysX. the engine must natively support everything without the use of PhysX addons. Sadly PhysX is linked to memory of vidcard right now - I can't set it to ON because I only have 512... I find this strange since I'm using PhysX in many other places, it's completely working with this card (Nvidia GeForce 9600gt) but the game just doesn't allow me to. I'm not a game programmer (just a simple one), so I don't know what makes this limitation mandatory but hell... anyways, I agree that the flamers animation, especially in a game like this, with graphics like this, doesn't really do justice to fire. (Sorry for the very "functional" image.) In point 1 you can see the current mechanics, sprites (planes always facing camera) are placed and if the character move to much, like firing while sliding, the spaces in between become too large to cover, destroying even the last bit of the illusion. In point 2 you can see the possible solution as I think - extra sprites in between that are bound to the adjacent ones but resize, filling up the space. Their size change shall be linked to the center points of adjacent sprites (with a certain minimum so they never appear as "lines"), meaning if you see the "fire" from the front/behind, the size is on minimum, while from the size it can stretch as necessary. Of course this is not perfect, but better that "puffs" of fire. If the don't want the "texture" to stretch, they can make the sprite to stretch hy creating an end and a starting part, with repeating middleparts and when the stretch reaches a certain amount, they put in a new part, like this: (right lower corner shows what happens when certain stretch amount is reached) I think this might help the looks - this is how I did it in 3ds max previously anyways, and it was pretty decent looking with very low resources (was on old comp). Of course I'm not on the same level but the current flames aren't either :D ____________ _ _ ____________ Edited July 24, 2013 by K_Shiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaskadar Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) It's kinda hard to program a flamer correctly. Honestly, it should have the Collision_TouchAll sorta thing going for it instead of terminating on player collision. Once you change that then it becomes a proper flamethrower. Have a wide collision radius for the "projectiles" and make sure they phase through everything (except world geometry) and it'll be set. Edited July 24, 2013 by Vaskadar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K_Shiro Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) It's kinda hard to program a flamer correctly. Honestly, it should have the Collision_TouchAll sorta thing going for it instead of terminate on player collision. The trick would be for it to terminate not when colliding with "entities" (objects, enemies, containers) but when hitting map structure (walls) and props (like handrails, stairs, vases... etc). If the props and entities are separate then it should cause no trouble to do it so - even if they are not, a tag might very well be on them, like "invulnerable" or something, since we cannot destroy stairs, and that can be used. A few things unnecessarily stopping the flames is better than being forced to put Penetration on a flamethrower... man, seriously, that's hilarious, but destroys the gun. About the damage part - the flamer is weak even against light infested. When I put fire damage on my weapons it deals a great amount of that damage to infested, grineer, even corpus soldiers - but not the Ignis. It is simply weak. The "on contact" damage should be strong so when I concentrate "fire" on enemy it feels evil and brutal. If you look at most shotguns on rank 0, they are scary against low level characters - the ignis isn't. Sure, shotguns have less overall ammo, but not by that much. Also they scale better and are effective at longer ranges, etc. Also to make the flamer worth that XP requirement, and to make it really a flamer, a DoT effect to fire should be added - not just to the flamer but to every flame damage in the game. That way every element could have some special effect that does them justice. Cold - slows. Posion - slow, longtime DoT (the dmg coming from directly health can be a good idea but you can call it acid and then applying it to shields first is no longer strange). Lightning - chance to stun (also make melee lightning worth using please, 5% damage makes it a waste of that 6+ mod points). Fire - faster/stronger DoT than poison but way shorter time - maybe not that much more damage but then it could give a chance for the enemy to panic. ____________ _ _ ____________ Edited July 24, 2013 by K_Shiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnPetrucci Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 (edited) it has a Short Range and the flames can't cone hit multiple enemies and damage them and it hasn't a damage over time.the ignis has to be like this ---> ---> ---> ---> Edited July 24, 2013 by JohnPetrucci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaskadar Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Well, I do have some experience scripting weapons, and usually, for the most part, there's world collision (level geometry, meshes, CSG additive/subtractive), and then there's actor/pawn collision. And I do agree with your elemental/damage type suggestions. Ignis does need work, that's obvious. Hopefully they'll get around to it sooner than later. DoT on a flamer would be really nasty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WetAedeagus Posted July 24, 2013 Share Posted July 24, 2013 Rising Storm has an excellent flamethrower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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