Teshin Conclave Syndicate Weapons: Yay Or Nay?

[Autongnosis]

There are imho three ways you can go about this:

- introduce a new, PvP only weapon that gives no mastery points

- introduce a new, PvP and PvE weapon that can be acquired both through Conclave an sone other way for PvE

- introduce more skins and weapon-specific augments for PvP only

The first system is imho the worst one. You'll get screams of protest from almost every side, on top of the fact that the balancing of such weapons would be a huge problem. The progression dictates that they should be more powerful, but were they more powerful it would widen the divide between players a little too much, on top of generally breaking the equipment choices variety this game can offer.

Second way is imhi the best one as it gives dedicated PvP players something to look forward to and doesn't anger too much the PvE side of the playerbase. An the weapon could be pretty much balanced in PvP without too much whining as well, because it would just be another weapon. Only the PvPers get to acquire it through Tenshin.

Third way is imho something i, despite my very little experience in Conclave, would love. Having my favourite weapon do some weird S#&$ through a mod is a good thing for me.

That said, i think not everyone enjoys the idea as much as i do, so i'd say it takes the comfy "good idea but not top idea" seat.

[(XBOX)TheLastDax]

YES!

Combat focused syndicate needs a bloody weapon. Why is this even a question.

The screams of peasants can be heard throughout the system as you bear a arm crafted of the bones of fallen Tenno who were not worthy enough to remember.

They forgot the conclave.

[maximum43]

I would be all for it, but my opinions on the matter would be bias due to the fact that the point I am at right now is to spend the rep that I earn on getting Exilus Adapters only. The rest of the rewards I already have including all of the Sigils. I am glad that I do not have to do scans for Simaris anymore. This method is much more fun. I would welcome any new rewards though.

[Radon086]

Why not? Why should players invested their time in Conclave get rewards poorer than from other Syndicates?

As a player who plays both pvp and pve, I'm actually pretty surprise that pvp's rewards are such... unattractive.

 

I believe no matter what form the farming takes(Conclave,Archwing,Void,Sortie...),designers should keep adding ideal rewards to keep players motivated. Otherwise, after the excitement of "simply playing the mode" started to drop, people easily feel empty(Like they already stated at numerous complaining threads about Sortie).   

 

And to be a little off topic, I think Conclave players deserves better-then-now rewards like Syndicate Weapons even if some players against this idea because they unwilling to participate. The rule of Warframe is always there - "You play and you gain". A player is not qualified for any reward from any mode at the first place if he is not joining the game.     

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

No. Conclave isn't balanced enough to require people to play it to get weapons that can be used in PVE. They honestly shouldn't be putting that much effort into PVP until it becomes popular and things like skins and all that you can live without are fine. All it would do is make people despise PVP more to be honest and push others away.

[(XBOX)TheLastDax]

No. Conclave isn't balanced enough to require people to play it to get weapons that can be used in PVE. They honestly shouldn't be putting that much effort into PVP until it becomes popular and things like skins and all that you can live without are fine. All it would do is make people despise PVP more to be honest and push others away.

Do you even logic bro.

Why would you wait for something to get popular to create it when you're trying to create something and make it popular.

Conclave needs a weapon. It is a syndicate based on Tenno vs Tenno combat.

Hmmm. An Arena based syndicate exclusively suffering from the lack of a weapon. Even simaris has a weapon. I understand The people are being sensitive towards the mastery rank obsessed players who refused to play PVP. I get that. Because this handful of players deem themselves among the elite. So yeah maybe we should just ignore everyone else. Pvp isn't grindy enough anyway.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Do you even logic bro.

Why would you wait for something to get popular to create it when you're trying to create something and make it popular.

Conclave needs a weapon. It is a syndicate based on Tenno vs Tenno combat.

Hmmm. An Arena based syndicate exclusively suffering from the lack of a weapon. Even simaris has a weapon. I understand The people are being sensitive towards the mastery rank obsessed players who refused to play PVP. I get that. Because this handful of players deem themselves among the elite. So yeah maybe we should just ignore everyone else. Pvp isn't grindy enough anyway.

 

Because as it is now, conclave isn't good. Period. It's not attacting a majority of the people from PVE because in the end, it offers nothing to advance your PVE experience and the second it does so with say weapons that can be used in PVE, people will fight it and should. Ideally, you would be able to play PVP and get something to take in PVE to excuse all the time put into it but as it is now, it's not worth it unless you enjoy the PVP experience. You expect people to take this game type seriously without dedicating servers? Should people who struggle with PVP have to hurl their controller at the tv because a host migration derailed all their hard work to beat some challenge to make the grind a little easier? Can't take something seriously that isn't trying to take itself seriously as it stands.

 

Creating weapons for it unless they are exclusive to PVP and didn't add to your mastery will create nothing but a backlash and if the were exclusive weapons for conclave then they might as well take it further and make it so you can only use conclave created weaponry to help them balance things out properly instead of just cramming something in and balancing it as they go.

[rockscl]

it offers nothing to advance your PVE experience and the second it does so with say weapons that can be used in PVE, people will fight it and should.

 

what is there to fear about this, only an extra bunch of salty posts in the forum, which already looks like the dead sea so it will be like tears in the rain, nothing to be worried and will bring more win than loss(if any loss)

 

 

 

Because as it is now, conclave isn't good. Period.

 

archwing defense is terrible and still DE puts mastery rewards on it in order to lure people into the node, the same can apply to conclave under the current logic, also, that is just your opinion

Edited January 22, 2016 by rockscl

[Lordricker]

If the pve people react  like allornothingdays says it will (which i dont have a very hard time believing) then i would rather wait till they get servers. If the idea is to draw people to conclave, then they will be comming to get the weapon and if the p2p thing starts acting up (host migrations, disconnects and such) then it will push them away from it. Id be happy with conclave weapons but i dont want conclave to turn in to a field of farmers

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

what is there to fear about this, only an extra bunch of salty posts in the forum, which already looks like the dead sea so it will be like tears in the rain, nothing to be worried and will bring more win than loss(if any loss)

 

 

"DE, I suck but I'm trying to make standing in conclave to get these new weapons but people keep leaving conclave or I get sent into host migration, can we get some dedicated servers to help with this?"

 

DE: No plans at this time

 

"I thought you weren't going to lock PVE content behind conclave? First it was mods, now it's weapons and you have no plans or interest to make this mode stable for us? /throws tomatoes" 

 

How is it going to bring more "win" than loss if you and a handful of the same people are the only ones playing it?

 

 

archwing defense is terrible and still DE puts mastery rewards on it in order to lure people into the node, the same can apply to conclave under the current logic, also, that is just your opinion

 

Archwing is a PVE experience. You gain mods/materials that contribute to a PVE experience while PVP does not contribute to it. We've already had missions that have you in a PVE experience transitioning into archwing,it's part of the game now and PVP is not. Losing connection with players via hosting migration to where you lose your rewards and any other gains you make in Archwing and PVP in general does happen (rarely, for me) but nowhere near the PVP experience. Me saying conclave isn't good is definitely opinion but it's based on the fact DE doesn't know what conclave is going to be and you know why? It wasn't built around PVP and because of that, it shouldn't be locking content behind it that PVE players can use while PVP tries to find itself against all odds while at the same time including things in PVP that make you think they STILL have no idea how to balance PVP.

 

I am stridently against adding weapons BUT you give me dedicated servers and personally, I could find a way to deal with it if there's something I like. At least then I don't feel bad for someone struggling and becoming seriously disheartened by lucking out and beating a couple challenges and losing them in one instance, a known issue that hasn't been handled ASAP and should if you want people to take conclave seriously and even with these fixes, I still have a problem with PVE centric players playing conclave and getting nothing but the weapon they'e grinding for and a few PVP mods that add very little to their PVE experience because I believe they need to bridge that gap to attract more players.

[rockscl]

Archwing defense is a sneeze fest, a sorry excuse of pve that is most actually sit there and spam the elytron thingys, and pvp does contribute to pve with rare materials, the only thing we arent getting from pvp that we do get from pve is mastery fodders

 

the migrations and failed migrations do happen a lot in archwing defense, one of the reasons i never finished a rotation of that node, i invite you to try a pub match in that mission and see how people will always leave before rotation C, and sometimes without even waiting for the end of the current rotation, i tried and experience that before noticing how painfully boring it was and aborting the grind on that node forever

 

"must not lock content for pve behind pvp" -> just liek you said, there is already pve content behind pvp, the skins and the sygils, and as far as i know some mods too(Spring-Loaded_Broadhead by example), so this comes late, again the only thing not exclusive in pvp are mastery fodders because it would hurt people, still i dont see less win than loss in bringing some salt to the forums because of 3000 mastery points (or a lot more, why not)

 

"servers" -> transversal dedicated hosting and everyone will win

 

as a foot note, i repeat, the pvp players shouldnt care about the pve reaction, pvp wouldnt exist under such worries to begin with

Edited January 22, 2016 by rockscl

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

Archwing defense is a sneeze fest, a sorry excuse of pve that is most actually sit there and spam the elytron thingys, and pvp does contribute to pve with rare materials, the only thing we arent getting from pvp that we do get from pve is mastery fodders

 

Agreed but now you're going into opinion and I'm not sure what archwing being a sneeze fest has anything to do with it not being included in regular PVE missions and it never will be, the mods you are forced to use ensure this.

 

Mods like soft hands aren't anything special and add nothing to PVE imo unless for some reason you're willing to forgo an elemental mod or other better mod for it, not sure why you would. The only good thing I ever got from a match mod wise that weren't your standard pvp mods was 5 gold cores but that only happened once. You would attract a lot more people if they handed out a pack or cores of different varieties alongside a conclave mod because as it is now, I gain more by doing your average mission than playing conclave and anyone who sticks with conclave is going to stall behind when it comes to advancing in the overall game.

 

the migrations and failed migrations do happen a lot in archwing defense, one of the reasons i never finished a rotation of that node, i invite you to try a pub match in that mission and see how people will always leave before rotation C, and sometimes without even waiting for the end of the current rotation, i tried and experience that before noticing how painfully boring it was and aborting the grind on that node forever

 

Are you seriously trying to compare PVE migrations to PVP migrations? Archwing or your average mission, it makes no difference. Once host migratiopn occurs in a PVE setting, all I do is shrug and lean back and wait to link up with all that is left. If it happens in PVP? Got to hope I didn't invest too much time in completing challenges or get a lot of kills because it's done, back to the ship you go. Back to back host migrations have happened to me in PVE and you know what doesn't happen? I don't face palm because I know I'm going back to my ship, I know I'll be the one left standing in a mission and just have to see if I can complete it on my own or not. PVP? I know exactly where I'm going after one. Require PVE players to play conclave and DE has to answer one question from the community, why are you demanding I play a broken mode to get these items? Where are my dedicated servers? Until they can answer that, they're better off not going in that direction. If Archwing routinely acted like PVP with host migrations and the like, they would have no business releasing content for it until it was fixed. I've also never had a host migration issue in PVE aside from that bug that kicked you from the game that was then fixed, you know why? Because PVE is their bread and butter and once that is messed up, they know they're in serious trouble. Let PVP host migrations become a thing in PVE and see how quickly the game would abandoned.

 

"must not lock content for pve behind pvp" -> just liek you said, there is already pve content behind pvp, the skins and the sygils, and as far as i know some mods too(Spring-Loaded_Broadhead by example), so this comes late, again the only thing not exclusive in pvp are mastery fodders because it would hurt people, still i dont see less win than loss in bringing some salt to the forums because of 3000 mastery points (or a lot more, why not)

 

Skins and sygils are just cosmetics, I'm fine with them. The community as a whole may or may not be but they don't help you advance in the game but this is coming from someone who doesn't care about sygils or weapon skins because I like coloring my weapons myself. There were complaints about the mods and rightly so because DE claimed you wouldn't need to go through conclave to get anything you might need for the main game. The fact they even had to say that tells you enough so I'm not sure how you can still say you see less win than loss with the amount of conclave hate there already is. Only way around this is to have each syndicate have their own melee weapon but allowing conclave to have the pick of any of them for standing.

 

 

as a foot note, i repeat, the pvp players shouldnt care about the pve reaction, pvp wouldnt exist under such worries to begin with

 

Again, you still don't see less win than loss? The implication of this is that PVP wouldn't exist because the PVE community as a whole isn't interested in it. So they're catering to a minority here. 

 

I also really don't think that's too much to ask at this point. Host migrations, challenges that seem counter intuitive to how they want people to play the game and not being sure yourself how you want people to play which has been shown via updates/abilities they allowed frames to have/weapons/how melee operates/no dedicated servers so you risk raging if you have a challenge that must be completed in a match that you can't slowly chip away at even if you lose progress. The community itself is divided over how PVP should work that isn't going to help them figure things out since they don't have a vision themselves and I'm not attacking you when I say this but your mentality isn't helping either in regards to bringing up "salt" and act like DE will be fine if they cater to you in this mode and don't worry about everyone else, all it is going to do is continue to drive people away so that you and a handful of people can play a mode that will be abandoned once they see how little people end up being interested in it and negativity it brings in Warframe's direction. Until they figure out what they want to even do, they shouldn't put people in a spot who wouldn't want to play to begin with to come across the current problems with conclave and be livid once they see something they want and made frustrating to attain because of design decisions on their end. 

[rockscl]

people would not be forced to play conclave because of the potential MR laying behind it, just like we had 6 uncompatible former syndicates with a wall of void farm for rare parts to the highest rank,  and everyone had the 12 weapons laying behind them and without being forced to switch between them, i dont think its delusional to assume that if people wants the MR and doesnt want to play conclave they can perfectly just trade for the weapon that will not be any scarse as every active conclave player has nothing else to spend standing than exilus bps

 

about all the conclave problems you mention, i wouldnt ever deny their existence, but i think its not that relevant because if you dont like pvp you wouldnt play it even without those problems in the middle

Edited January 22, 2016 by rockscl

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

i dont think its delusional to assume that if people wants the MR and doesnt want to play conclave they can perfectly just trade for the weapon that will not be any scarse as every active conclave player has nothing else to spend standing than exilus bps

 

It's just kind of convenient that a mode with this much trouble that you like and that a lot of people hate could potentially get exclusive items and to everyone else your response is? It's ok! Don't want to deal with host migrations? Lag? Changes to PVP overall as it goes back and forth trying to find itself? OP weapons? Just trade for what you want. I'll take that platinum off your hands. Uh huh. No thank you, fix it then we can have a real discourse on this matter. 

 

about all the conclave problems you mention, i wouldnt ever deny their existence, but i think its not that relevant because if you dont like pvp you wouldnt play it even without those problems in the middle

 

I'm sorry but it is very relevant. Those who at least try to grind through something they aren't into it are being punished for no fault of their own via all the issues discussed above will breed the sort of animosity towards it that you don't want. The one thing you can't say about PVE syndicates is that host migrations and other changes/issues are keeping you from gaining rep.

 

Bottom line, get the foundation straightened and even then tread cautiously if you plan on introducing weapons you can't get elsewhere. PVP will be in a world of hurt because of this if this comes to fruition. As of now, not being mindful of that will further damage it. You don't have to go far to see how the general populace feels about PVP and questions its entire existence.

[ANGELVIXEN]

I'd be fine with exclusive weapons that can only be aquired in pvp.

Why should Pvp players be punished on what to get and such because judgemental Pve players get salty about it? Because the foundation is broken? It still is and people are still playing on it.

I find Archwing not fun to play, and I still trekked through it and maxed some gear, and I consider that mode broken for the fact that the exp gain is very poor, also I never do Simaris scans, and that mode has exclusive fusion mods for card gambling as well, Im being punished because I don't like to do it? well, thats on me.

If pve players started to play pvp just for the gear, well, thats their prerogative, and if they get salty about it, well, just more feedback.

If the DE's really wanted to push exclusivity with some pvp stuff, they would've done it, with or without the backlash.

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

I find Archwing not fun to play, and I still trekked through it and maxed some gear, and I consider that mode broken for the fact that the exp gain is very poor, also I never do Simaris scans, and that mode has exclusive fusion mods for card gambling as well, Im being punished because I don't like to do it? well, thats on me.

 

You're not comparing light with light, it's that simple. You're trying to compare PVP which is a completely different mode to something that has already been fully integrated into PVE. Archwing isn't a separate mode, it's fully involved in the PVE experience. Besides, slow EXP is a far cry from losing any hard earned progress someone who struggles with PVP might make from host migration that so far they don't seem interested in doing anything about. 

 

PVP is a totally separate thing, period. There's no comparison to be made. 

[rockscl]

 

 

PVP is a totally separate thing, period. There's no comparison to be made. 

 

 

the same applies to archwing, and even if you consider it fully integrated with pve, there are some(many?) pve purist nazis that, still after uranus revamp, would consider you an heretic for pretending to say that archwing is remotely integrated with the core of the game, and so i dont get misintrepreted, i like and support archwing

 

but i think you are wrong, in the end its as simple as that, i think that the trade system and the optionality of several syndicates is enough experience to make conclave work a bit like that

 

PVP will be in a world of hurt because of this if this comes to fruition. 

 

in the worst case accodingly with your own reasons, DE would find more feedback asking for dedicated hosting and whatever other fix its needed, and that would be the end of the story, nothing will make a pvp hater grind for weeks or months just to get a single gun, just like i will never have a enough reason to abandon steel meridian for the perrin sequence, i will just trade my vaykor thingys, that is what the entire community does and no one complains afaik

 

and i assume that this convenient scenario about keeping the conclave broken in general is an hyperbole, because when one posts around here everyday asking for improvements  its rather clear that one has the dream of having a better conclave

Edited January 23, 2016 by rockscl

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

the same applies to archwing, and even if you personally want to consider it fully integrated with pve or whatsoever, there are some pve purist nazis that will consider you an heretic for pretending to say that archwing is remotely integrated with the core of the game

 

No. For example. When was the last time you had a PVP alert pop up alongside an archwing or regular alert? Never, right? Because PVP is separate from PVE. Archwing is not. Remember when you were doing that one story mission with the cool cinematic that turned into a PVP battle? I don't, because it doesn't exist and PVP is seperate. Archwing is a part of the PVE experience, like it or not. There's even a whole planet dedicate it. Kindly remind of the whole planet that was nothing but PVP nodes, I'll wait. Why isn't this? Because Archwing was built into PVE, PVP isn't and will not be.

 

 

this again, in the worst case accodingly with your own reasons, DE would find more feedback asking for dedicated hosting and whatever other fix its needed, and that would be the end of the story, nothing will make a pvp hater grind for weeks to get a single gun just like nothing will make me grind archwing defense in order to get Kaszas, just like i will never have a enough reason to abandon steel meridian for the perrin sequence, i will just trade my vaykor thingys, that is what the entire community does and no one complains afaik

 

Want feedback? DEDICATED SERVERS. What has DE's response been to that? Not a lot of feedback to get from "why is pvp in this game?" "why aren't my challenges being saved after a host migration disconnect? I did all of them and now they're lost. Why are you implementing a broken mode that is actively keeping me from completing challenges and gaining rep?" "Why can't this work as well as the syndicates? I never lose out on rep because of host migration doing those" "Why haven't you nerfed the new cheap OP weapon of tactic? It's keeping me from completing challenges." "Why is cephalon capture even a thing and how do you expect me to kill 12 people with my primary if people are beating it before I can kill them fast enough?"

 

How much you like archwing has nothing to do with/doesn't change the fact it is integrated into PVE and besides that, doesn't have you fighting against something that isn't an AI and cannot exploit the next new cheap tactic/weapon/power/design flaw, host migration everywhere issue with PVP as it stands now. 

 

PVP is just an addition, to what is already in place. Go have the void trader hand out a primed PVP mod or have DE say they're gearing towards focusing on delivering a PVP experience to see how people feel about PVP lol. It isn't the game's draw, it might be to you and a few others, but it isn't for their main audience and even DE's if you go by how they're handling it. Host migration is not acceptable, I'd like to see them take that seriously first, otherwise, this is just an add on to mess around with and there's nothing wrong with that--so long as it's not a barrier between you and PVE items.

[rockscl]

 Because PVP is separate from PVE. Archwing is not. 

 

there are harder purist taht will burn you in a public square for saying such heresy

[ANGELVIXEN]

You keep speaking of host migrations as if it's very light in Pve, There are times where you lose untold progress via host migration where you are sent back into the ship in pve as well, as it has happened with me getting at least 20 fusions cores and a host migration disconnect.

As for the Planet with Pvp modes, I remember something called dark sectors where Pvp was getting intergrated with Pve, and those same dark sectors nodes are still there, in every planet. I consider it still seeing light with light in my eyes. That reminds me, we still have solar rails, which you need Pve Materials to make for Pvp, just because that armistice is still there does not mean it's not intergrated. 

as for Alert pvp pop ups, who is to say DE's won't do that? there is already mutations modes going in place in pvp, which happen uncommonly, like a alert anyways.

For those meta weapons, people will complain about that one way or the other, as for those cheap tactics, there is nullifiers in place for that.

As for the games main draw, and? What does that have to do with getting some exclusive weapons for pvp? because it affects said other players harshly about? what exactly? that their not getting 100% completion?

Edit : You keep saying those host migrations issues all the time, those same issues are still present in Pve as well, losing connection and being sent back.

The average persons patience is their own to deal with, and thats pretty much opinion at that point, new players being stomped is more of a match making issue then anything.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Bob300

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

there are harder purist taht will burn you in a public square for saying such heresy

 

That's just their opinion, something that crashes rather harshly against the facts. There's a whole planet fusing arching and ground combat together, it's been fully integrated and doesn't suffer from the constant host migration issue that challenges your average person's patience with PVP and ruins progress. DE would be absolutely foolish to expect a new player to not only deal with likely being stomped in a match, but to be stomped and absolutely dread losing progress if they luck out and complete a challenge, just to lose it due to a host migration. Until that is fixed, no thank you to conclave acquired weaponry. 

[Uzpian]

I'm ok with Conclave syndicate weapons since I play PvP for fun.

 

I don't know about the PvE guys though.

[Marrt]

The whole game is a grind. If you want a maxed mastery rank (what a circular purpose...) people should also play some pvp. But maybe those full prime goldskin colored rhino players really feel a bit salty if they suddenly have to take a break from their omnipotent pve domination.

Just do it, add some mastery rank rewards, warframe pvp is something very unique in the shooter world, give those pve players a reason to check it out in depth, but only after adding at least crude matchmaking :)

Edited January 23, 2016 by Marrt

[(PSN)AllOrNothinDays]

You keep speaking of host migrations as if it's very light in Pve, There are times where you lose untold progress via host migration where you are sent back into the ship, as it has happened with me getting at least 20 fusions cores and a host migration disconnect.

 

They are not common. No one would be playing much if this was the case. Unlike PVP, this happens a lot.

 

As for the Planet with Pvp modes, I remember something called dark sectors where Pvp was getting intergrated with Pve, and those same dark sectors nodes are still there, in every planet. I consider it still seeing light with light in my eyes. That reminds me, we still have solar rails, which you need Pve Materials to make for Pvp, just because that armistice is still there does not mean it's not intergrated. 

 

How are those dark sector nodes doing? You're not comparing light with light because again. The reason PVP isn't integrated like Archwing is because of the balancing issues and host migration and that Warframe was never built up to be a PVP experience to begin with. If every time there was a host migration in archwing you were shoved back to your ship and made zero gains, it would be either tossed out or put off to the side like PVP as they tried to fix it. If dedicated servers are a start and they said they planned on implementing them at such and such a date, then that's what they're going to have to do to have PVP taken seriously. Respectfully, just imagine playing call of duty and it had this sort of problem.

 

 

As for the games main draw, and? What does that have to do with getting some exclusive weapons for pvp? because it affects said other players harshly about? what exactly? that their not getting 100% completion?

 

They don't want to play PVP, it gets in the way of their PVE experience. Saying "trade chat" doesn't take away from the fact you'll be adding only resentment to sub community that separates itself from the whole. Warframe is about acquiring near gear, putting new weapons only accessible through PVP would be a very big deal. 

[rockscl]

absolutely dread losing progress

 

lol in conclave you recover that progress in 10 minutes while in pve if you came with some defense extraction troll you can lose over an hour of picnic gameplay, also that point where you insist so much will be more easier adressed if theres more players complainning about it so conclave mastery fodders would actually help

Edited January 23, 2016 by rockscl