High Level Tenno Nukers, Why Are You Playing In Public?

[(PSN)Cwellann]

*snip*: overall tone

On what basis did you determine them to be trolls determined to ruin a lowbie's day?  I'm honestly asking, not trying to bait you.  Because if there's an actual answer to that, a good portion of the rest of this post is going to need a lineout and rewrite.

 

"It's Pub, anyone does anything they want"  

Actually, yes.  As long as it's within the rules, which using your abilities to complete the mission objective is.  Your point also doesn't really hold a lot of water here - the point of a mission is to complete it, not to complete it with 25% across the board for everyone.  Your "speed runners and nukers" are just efficiently playing the mission.  If you want to, say, take your time and explore the map, or experiment with a new weapon, or just play at your own pace, that's fine, but you are setting your own rules and therefore need to remove yourself instead of trying to disallow others.

 

Shouldn't they be the ones tackling such low level content on solo, because they can handle it and it wont bother anyone else?

Maybe!  But the onus for this is on DE.  I'm too new to know anything about conclave rating limits other than it used to be a thing and that Tactical Recall weekend was hearkening back to that, but I've seen a lot of "it's gone because it didn't work".  There's other ways around this too, for example, curve the players ability if they are "overpowered" for the mission.  Ever played Destiny, solo'd Crota, then gotten distracted and murdered in under a minute by a level 0 Fallen?  Yeah, that doesn't work either.  This is kind of a tricky pickle, because why force someone to not be able to play how they like after they've put tons of effort into being able to do something?  Kind of runs counter intuitive to the whole power fantasy that is this game.  Again, this is DE's pickle, and as long as the rules say it's ok, that's the conditions we've got to work to.

 

Again, if you are talking about a specific situation where you have proof that the other guys were there to deny people an experience and troll, that's different.

[MagPrime]

On what basis did you determine them to be trolls determined to ruin a lowbie's day?  I'm honestly asking, not trying to bait you.  Because if there's an actual answer to that, a good portion of the rest of this post is going to need a lineout and rewrite.

 

Actually, yes.  As long as it's within the rules, which using your abilities to complete the mission objective is.  Your point also doesn't really hold a lot of water here - the point of a mission is to complete it, not to complete it with 25% across the board for everyone.  Your "speed runners and nukers" are just efficiently playing the mission.  If you want to, say, take your time and explore the map, or experiment with a new weapon, or just play at your own pace, that's fine, but you are setting your own rules and therefore need to remove yourself instead of trying to disallow others.

 

Maybe!  But the onus for this is on DE.  I'm too new to know anything about conclave rating limits other than it used to be a thing and that Tactical Recall weekend was hearkening back to that, but I've seen a lot of "it's gone because it didn't work".  There's other ways around this too, for example, curve the players ability if they are "overpowered" for the mission.  Ever played Destiny, solo'd Crota, then gotten distracted and murdered in under a minute by a level 0 Fallen?  Yeah, that doesn't work either.  This is kind of a tricky pickle, because why force someone to not be able to play how they like after they've put tons of effort into being able to do something?  Kind of runs counter intuitive to the whole power fantasy that is this game.  Again, this is DE's pickle, and as long as the rules say it's ok, that's the conditions we've got to work to.

 

Again, if you are talking about a specific situation where you have proof that the other guys were there to deny people an experience and troll, that's different.

It's trolling when someone intentionally does something to upset another persons gaming experience.  Running ahead and wiping out the map and denying someone xp, especially if they don't communicate their intent nor intend to stop if asked, is trolling.  Sadly, I don't have any screenshots handy to show the High MR that told me I was wasting their time nor do I have a screenshot of me and two other teammates asking a MR17 to stop killing everything before we could get in range, and them telling us to 'git gud'

 

As to removing myself from the situation, sure.  If it was just me that had the issue, I would and have done such.  But the existence of this thread proves that it's not an individual problem, but rather a wide spread one that is causing grief in the community.  Enough people have behaved in an inconsiderate manner that many people have commented about how aggravating it is to deal with them. 

 

I have no problem with someone playing efficiently, it's something that I do as well, and if someone wants to play that way, go for it!  But don't be upset when someone else doesn't want to play that way and don't tell them to go to solo if they have an issue with it.  By your own advice, if they have the issue (the efficient player not wanting to play as a team member) then they should be the ones to go solo, because they're the ones with the issue.

 

Not sure where you're going with the conclave bit?  I didn't mention anything about restricting someones abilities due to it nor did I say anything about matchmaking.

 

Although, I honestly believe a better matchmaking system would put the majority of this to a rest. 

 

EDIT: Something I just realized, a lot of people I've interacted with on this seem to think it's a 1:1 thing.  One High MR/Nuker type joins a solo low MR/non-nuker type when in my experience, it's been 2 or 3 low MR/non-nukers joined by a High MR/nuker.

 

In that situation, should all 2 or 3 low MR players then go on solo because that one high MR refuses to ceed to the teams request of teamwork, or should the high MR be the one to go on solo, because they want to play a specific way that is counter to the teams wishes?

Edited January 24, 2016 by Noamuth

[ChampionUnknown]

Personally I hardly ever play 'nukers'. Mainly I use Trinity, and if I ever find myself in a low level zone I just give my team energy and watch everyone kill while I sit back drinking lemonade.

[(PSN)obsidiancurse]

I doubt anyone deliberately sets out to spoil a low level game, they just probably head to an alert/invasion with whatever they had equipped at the time.

Also it's not like you can't reoeat a mission again if you think your first time through was tarnished.

[Guest]

....

 

 

The only person here that has some personal problems are you.

 

....

 

yes, its a deep personal problem when i have to face that in a mission or if im confronted with

 

i really dont like themes like that, it shows bad teamless style and its a socalled very "unthankful" theme for me

 

all i try to do with my comments is to remember that there are better ways with a better style to play together

 

and yes, again, i have a big problem with and i see i dont get tired to fight against and im a little bit proud of my problem :-)

 

good things with a good value like working as a team together even when its a spontaneous mixed team of individuals together in a mission is smth which is worth to support for me

 

ongoing :-) you can see me really helpless here to do otherwise

Edited January 24, 2016 by Guest

[xiaodenden]

I kinda dont mind some nukers... but I really hate those embers that just run straight to extraction with WOF on. Except still leave a good amount of mobs still alive...

 

Rest of the party for some reason just follows the ember, and Im left behind cleaning the left overs...

 

And then the ember calls me noob for being slow in getting to the extraction point...

 

Thats not how extermination mission work... .- .  

 

This annoys me so much.  They think they're so awesome, but they're just leaving messes for others to clean up.  They also don't understand the concept of extermination.  Just because they run to the end, the game won't let them extract unless all the enemies are dead.  If they want to be nukers, at least be good nukers.    

[(PSN)Cwellann]

1.  It's trolling when someone intentionally does something to upset another persons gaming experience.  Running ahead and wiping out the map and denying someone xp, especially if they don't communicate their intent nor intend to stop if asked, is trolling.  Sadly, I don't have any screenshots handy to show the High MR that told me I was wasting their time nor do I have a screenshot of me and two other teammates asking a MR17 to stop killing everything before we could get in range, and them telling us to 'git gud'

 

2.  As to removing myself from the situation, sure.  If it was just me that had the issue, I would and have done such.  But the existence of this thread proves that it's not an individual problem, but rather a wide spread one that is causing grief in the community.  Enough people have behaved in an inconsiderate manner that many people have commented about how aggravating it is to deal with them. 

 

3.  I have no problem with someone playing efficiently, it's something that I do as well, and if someone wants to play that way, go for it!  But don't be upset when someone else doesn't want to play that way and don't tell them to go to solo if they have an issue with it.  By your own advice, if they have the issue (the efficient player not wanting to play as a team member) then they should be the ones to go solo, because they're the ones with the issue.

 

4.  Not sure where you're going with the conclave bit?  I didn't mention anything about restricting someones abilities due to it nor did I say anything about matchmaking.

 

Although, I honestly believe a better matchmaking system would put the majority of this to a rest. 

1.  Fair enough.  Point conceded in regard to that specific circumstance and any others like it.  Some people need to go watch Spider Man a few times.

 

2.  Bundled into 4.

 

3.  Agreed, but I must restate, just for clarity, that the cause for "go solo" must be someone getting salty at someone else doing something allowed.  It absolutely goes both ways.

 

4.  No, you didn't, but it seemed like the only sensible place to go with that.  2 goes here too, because I also honestly believe a matchmaking system is the solution to getting rid of all this salt.  You undoubtedly noted I didn't say better.  I think what we currently have is bad enough that it doesn't really even deserve the name, and submit this thread, and every other like it as my evidence to that.

 

And now, having said that, here's a proposed solution.  Make it based on MR.

K, everyone done doing a spit take and grabbing a pitchfork?  Great, let's continue

Make MR a thing that you can lose, and therefore more meaningful than it currently is.  An example:  bow accuracy drops below x% for y MR?  Bye bye all MR points for all bows until a challenge (similar in execution to current MR tests) is completed, or overall accuracy returns above the benchmark.  Additionally, make the challenges for the next MR dependent on what was used to attain those MR points.

 

Not saying this is perfect, not saying it's what should be done, but hey, at least I suggested something.  Matchmaking needs to have a skill (and gear, because most of this game's a gear check) component.  Anyway, this is getting rambly.

[MagPrime]

1.  Fair enough.  Point conceded in regard to that specific circumstance and any others like it.  Some people need to go watch Spider Man a few times.

 

2.  Bundled into 4.

 

3.  Agreed, but I must restate, just for clarity, that the cause for "go solo" must be someone getting salty at someone else doing something allowed.  It absolutely goes both ways.

 

4.  No, you didn't, but it seemed like the only sensible place to go with that.  2 goes here too, because I also honestly believe a matchmaking system is the solution to getting rid of all this salt.  You undoubtedly noted I didn't say better.  I think what we currently have is bad enough that it doesn't really even deserve the name, and submit this thread, and every other like it as my evidence to that.

 

And now, having said that, here's a proposed solution.  Make it based on MR.

K, everyone done doing a spit take and grabbing a pitchfork?  Great, let's continue

Make MR a thing that you can lose, and therefore more meaningful than it currently is.  An example:  bow accuracy drops below x% for y MR?  Bye bye all MR points for all bows until a challenge (similar in execution to current MR tests) is completed, or overall accuracy returns above the benchmark.  Additionally, make the challenges for the next MR dependent on what was used to attain those MR points.

 

Not saying this is perfect, not saying it's what should be done, but hey, at least I suggested something.  Matchmaking needs to have a skill (and gear, because most of this game's a gear check) component.  Anyway, this is getting rambly.

1. Spider Man?  Which one and which specific part?  It's not the "Great Power" quote, is it?  ^.^;

 

2. 3.Little clarification on that one.  Again, if it's the team majority that makes the request but is technically going against the "allowed" rules for the mission, who has the onus to remove themselves?

 

4. Interesting solution.  I was considering dropping a matchmaking concept in originally, but here it is now.

 

Lock the nodes by MR but remove the locks when on premade, solo, friends only, anything that's not Public.  If invited to a PUG team, the MR lock would be negated.

 

Making MR a viable system is a whole different nightmare.

[Brandr_]

I can only get nice, meaty, spawn rates in 4-player multi

[.--Seiryu--.]

I can honestly understand that feeling you had. 

I believe that match-making can be made further improved by tuning to frequency of same level in a mission. Benefits will be: fair-and-square competition,  have equal fun. 

[(XBOX)MK Ultra K11]

He's in public because he can...?

I mean you could go into solo just as easily as he can so...

I think he/she cant do it alone solo but also doesnt want to be carried. So he/she is probably playing with freinds.

[Krymanol]

Came here to vent. Apologies.

 

I have been playing for quite a while now but I still get irritated every time I am in a low-level public mission then someone decides to pop in with their shiny [insert what you think is an OP Warframe here]. Fully pimped, going in one room to the next melting, squishing, and maiming everything (EVERYTHING!) on their path.

 

Bro! Why are you even in public? With your load out, you already decided that you want to kill all of them by yourself anyway...

 

Edit: I know the purpose of damage dealers in high level public. In fact I love you guys when you are there. I just wanted to point out that my frustrations are based on high-level player nukers who join low-level missions when they can solo it. Mental note: make title clearer next time.

 

 

Reasons I can think of is that more enemies spawn in public missions.   The more players on a team, the more enemies there are to kill.

 

This is only relevant when players want to farm something like resources or for specific mods and in some rare cases, affinity for things such as leveling a single weapon or for focus xp gains.

 

 

Now people may say killing higher level mobs is better xp and that is true but not in all cases or situations.

 

Take for instance using Ember.   Her world on fire has a limit to the number of enemies it can affect at one time.  This limit does not matter at low levels because you can one shot kill with one blast of fire, each enemy entering the radius.    But when that enemy level is say level 80, it will just get caught in the CC effect and be dancing the dance of fire for 5+ seconds before it dies...an ancient or heavy grineer unit may last 10+ seconds in WoF raidus before dying.    So when you've reached the limit of enemies you can affect with Wof, and you will at higher levels, not only does it take longer to kill that enemy, but you are both being attacked more frequently by more enemies who hit much harder than low level enemies and you are getting much slower affinity gains due to taking longer to kill.

 

So evne though higher level enemies give higher affinity, the scaling of damage, armor, shields in this game makes a huge difference in affinity gain in real time.

 

 

Also, because of the above stuff, affinity gains factor in.   Since at higher levels you can't kill stuff in one shot most of the time (unless you get lucky and hit enemies in their weak spots), it sometimes becomes more efficient to do mid to low level missions.

 

 

So lets take a level 1 light unit that gives 50 affinity per kill.   At level 80 it will give you 114 affinity per kill.   But at level 1 you can one shot that light unit in less than 1 second.   At level 80, that unit may last 5 or more seconds before it dies...my experience has shown that some units can last 10 to 15 seconds since being a bullet and power damage sponge comes into play at such levels.

 

 

Second, there is the spawn rates to think of.   The faster you kill, the faster the respawns.   Also, the more players there are the more enemies there are to kill, the faster the respawns happen and the greater the affinity gains are.

 

 

So now with this in mind, if you can kill a level 1 in lets just say 1 second (even though technically it's faster than that) and it takes 5 seconds to kill a level 80 of that same unit, you are gaining 250 affinity for killing 5 low level enemy verse 114 affinity for killing one high level enemy.

 

So in terms of affinity gains (assuming that's a goal of a player doing low level missions), killing low level enemies is often faster affinity but most importantly is the less risk.    Think in terms of survival.   If you start a level 35 survival mission, by the time you get to 20 minutes there's a chance you might fail and lose everything (assuming playing in pug of course).    If you start a lower level mission, things are a breeze until the 40 minute mark.    So there's less risk for higher reward in doing low level missions.   Along with faster affinity gains, you get more chance at resource and mod drops too.

 

 

So in my opinion, these are reasons why high level players with good builds go to low level missions and nuke everything.   It's been this way since I started playing 3 years ago and it won't change unless DE somehow make missions level locked or something.    Like not being able to take a high conclave valued build into a low level mission.     If you are conclave level 800+, not being able to get into a level 15 mission because of that rating is the only thing that will put a stop to high level players doing low level missions.

 

 

Now also, I'm aware that there is some ways to get better affinity, resources and such from higher level missions.   Many will say Draco is better than any low level mission but I believe it's more about the frame you use and the enemy you face.   For example, if you like using Mag, doing a grineer mission isn't the best for earning affinity as doing any corpus missions would.   since she can one shot any level corpus under the right circumstance, it also means you are less likely to see her in low level missions nuking corpus because unlike the issues above, mag can get more affinity killing high level enemies than low level enemies.

 

 

So everything is situational and based on the frame, build and enemy you face.   There's no universal rule that says build a nuke'em frame, go to this or that mission and nuke away.

 

So while it is frustrating, though less than back before the nerf of M.Prime, there is nothing we can do about it as long as missions remain open to any level player.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Krymanol

[jonnin]

I do it now and then ... alerts that are annoying to solo even if I can (interception and excavation mostly).  Farming for resources or something where more players = more enemy (it does scale you know) = more drops faster.   Or to level an item without leeching a higher end group --- when you want to re-level your primary for example, I have a choice of being a useless lump in a high end run or being OP in a low end run .. soloing works here but again, more kills in groups.

 

Most of the time I avoid doing this unless one of the above reasons is strong enough to justify it.   Sometimes, though, its a useful thing to do.

[(PSN)Cwellann]

*snip*

1.  No, of course not, why would you possibly think that?

 

3.  Ok, so yeah, this is where things can start to get dicey because the ethical right answer and the "legal" right answer aren't necessarily going to be the same case by case.  But if the argument about it's going to take longer than the mission itself (let's say an Invasion Exterminate), I'd say it's probably not worth the effort.  Slight tangent - DE needs to be a little better about the interaction of the ignore list and matchmaking.

 

4.  I like it, as long as the removal of the lock is not permanent after the node has been accessed the first time, because that's way to similar to what we have now.  Unfortunately, while I agree that making MR meaningful is a big ol' can of screaming night terrors, it would have to be addressed prior to use of MR locks being in any way useful.  I think you meant this, so please take this as clarifying.

 

Edit:  Krymanol, did you ever play FFXI?

Edited January 24, 2016 by (PS4)Cwellann

[srlhama]

When someone do it I just stay 1m away from extraction and make the guy wait 1 minute.

Or I just release sprint and just walk the whole mission until extraction, is nice to see some map details we usually don't have time to pay atention.

[MagPrime]

1.  No, of course not, why would you possibly think that?

 

3.  Ok, so yeah, this is where things can start to get dicey because the ethical right answer and the "legal" right answer aren't necessarily going to be the same case by case.  But if the argument about it's going to take longer than the mission itself (let's say an Invasion Exterminate), I'd say it's probably not worth the effort.  Slight tangent - DE needs to be a little better about the interaction of the ignore list and matchmaking.

 

4.  I like it, as long as the removal of the lock is not permanent after the node has been accessed the first time, because that's way to similar to what we have now.  Unfortunately, while I agree that making MR meaningful is a big ol' can of screaming night terrors, it would have to be addressed prior to use of MR locks being in any way useful.  I think you meant this, so please take this as clarifying.

MR lock would be for public setting only and not something that would be removable simply by ranking up.  The only way around it would be via premade, invite or solo.  

 

I personally would prefer a block system over ignore. : /

 

I'm thinking that alerts would have to be free of the MR lock, we do get potato alerts and Alertium on low planets as well as high.  The only reason for this would be because of limited teaming options effecting someones ability to get the alert finished in time.

[Kihana]

If lower level players don't like well geared players dropping into missions and wiping the floor, they should not expect to drop into a higher level mission themselves and be carried by the same well geared players.

 

Funny thing is, I have a Nova setup for lower level alerts so I'm not leaving people with nothing on the scoreboard. Just a base Boltor, Maralok and Orthos, and no corrupted mods. And the same can still happen. You can gear down all you like, but there's a point where you know your frame and your weapons and how to kill efficiently with them that well, you might as well just bring your best stuff anyway.

[Shiichibukai]

i dont play this way, will never do and have never done, its plain stupid and egoistic, this people compensate personal problems in real life and need you for their one-man-show

dont give a thing on your counter how many missions you aborted, simply leave, run away or ignore them, they are faar of having a insight in their behaving "and need" others to suck their idiotic ego-show

they need help and compassion, as well as the right one, for this people i would be glad to have a "kick"-button off the mission that the others IN A TEAM dont get close to be raped by stupidity =)

warframe is a coop-/teamgame and this morons should go somewhere ... sorry, i have only sharper words so i stop here

the main problem with that loosers is that if there are too many warframe will be destroyed in a short amount of time

You my friend are all kinds of special arent you...insulting ppl because some play it as a fast paced game. I hope your personal "gameplay" gets ruined by those so called morons. Geez

[wypower2]

Because peoplr say time is precious(?

[(PSN)thefndodge]

When someone do it I just stay 1m away from extraction and make the guy wait 1 minute.

Or I just release sprint and just walk the whole mission until extraction, is nice to see some map details we usually don't have time to pay atention.

This is exactly what I do too. Make them wait the whole minute. I also like to stare at them while they expect me to go back and take care of their leftovers. If they want to take over a low level mission, then they can finish it too. Most of the time I just follow and do nothing. Lockouts, left over enemies, carry a mob def objective, cover an objective while they hero down a hallway, nope. Why help someone that doesn't want help?

It's just a manners thing in my opinion. I'm petty, I fight bad manners with bad manners. Nothing else you can really do with how the game is set up.

[(PSN)Cwellann]

If lower level players don't like well geared players dropping into missions and wiping the floor, they should not expect to drop into a higher level mission themselves and be carried by the same well geared players.

 

Funny thing is, I have a Nova setup for lower level alerts so I'm not leaving people with nothing on the scoreboard. Just a base Boltor, Maralok and Orthos, and no corrupted mods. And the same can still happen. You can gear down all you like, but there's a point where you know your frame and your weapons and how to kill efficiently with them that well, you might as well just bring your best stuff anyway.

Took my (both potato-less) Dera Vandal and Twin Gremlins to Apolloduras on a freshly forma'd Trin Prime.  48%.  To your first part, I don't think it's the same group of players.  And if it is, I'm staying in my bubble as long as I can.

 

 

1. MR lock would be for public setting only and not something that would be removable simply by ranking up.  The only way around it would be via premade, invite or solo.  

 

2.  I personally would prefer a block system over ignore. : /

 

3.  I'm thinking that alerts would have to be free of the MR lock, we do get potato alerts and Alertium on low planets as well as high.  The only reason for this would be because of limited teaming options effecting someones ability to get the alert finished in time.

1.  K, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure.

2.  This is kinda the point I was trying to make.  /blist or whatever should effectively remove that person from the game for you unless you are both specifically invited to the same party by a third guy.

3.  Disagree (and unhappy about it, but, welp, yeah).  I think offering taxis to such is enough for that.  Otherwise, we're back at square one for this issue when vets start getting salty about the scroob in their pub.  

[MagPrime]

Took my (both potato-less) Dera Vandal and Twin Gremlins to Apolloduras on a freshly forma'd Trin Prime.  48%.  To your first part, I don't think it's the same group of players.  And if it is, I'm staying in my bubble as long as I can.

 

 

1.  K, that's what I thought, just wanted to make sure.

2.  This is kinda the point I was trying to make.  /blist or whatever should effectively remove that person from the game for you unless you are both specifically invited to the same party by a third guy.

3.  Disagree (and unhappy about it, but, welp, yeah).  I think offering taxis to such is enough for that.  Otherwise, we're back at square one for this issue when vets start getting salty about the scroob in their pub.  

3. what about instead of a MR lock, have a MR grouping system that has a 5 MR range?  i.e. if I'm MR 19, then anyone from MR 14-24 can join my team.

[(PSN)Cwellann]

3. what about instead of a MR lock, have a MR grouping system that has a 5 MR range?  i.e. if I'm MR 19, then anyone from MR 14-24 can join my team.

Definitely!  Groupings would absolutely be needed, otherwise, between that and the ping system, you'd never find anyone to play with.

[MagPrime]

Definitely!  Groupings would absolutely be needed, otherwise, between that and the ping system, you'd never find anyone to play with.

Good point.

 

Thank you for having a rational conversation about this, instead of a debate regarding my viability as a decent human being. :X

[(PSN)EnormeMostro]

They are doing alert

They are doing invasion

They are farming kubrow egg

....