Fix Saryn's Rework, Please?

[AutoPhox]

Try max range rather than damage, mixed with a little duration.

I have no problems with Saryn at all. Not survivability or energy.

^this Is how I do well in sorties. Shes not a typical tank/nuker. She's a hit and run combat controller. Move up, drop molt, hit it with spores, fall back, shoot at all the procs, repeat. Press 4 if in a bad spot. Hell I don't even waste nrg on 3, when spores can be spread by gunfire. Edited February 9, 2016 by AutoPhox

[Kalvorax]

Actually Sayrn is the most Impressive rework if you ask me. I only use 1st & her 3rd ability & boy is it so fun seeing the whole map drowning is posion & viral dmg. NUMBERS EVERYWHERE!

would you happen to be able to put a build together? sounds interesting.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

would you happen to be able to put a build together? sounds interesting.

Sure. This the exact build I use

Vitality meant to be R10. & for Exluis mod. I'm waiting for her prime version so I can put either Power Drift or (That one Drift mod that gives a tiny bit of stretch.)

[Issxi]

How is comboing saryn's skills anywhere close to stressful?

 

1. You hit a target with spore

2.Melee it with contagion

3.Reap energy

4.Cast miasma

 

1.Cast Molt

2.Spore on molt

3.GG you've done the same as above in causing viral and toxin proc

4.Cast miasma

 

 

While it can definitely be noted that the energy vs benefit cost is not in her favour, to argue that playing saryn now is "stressful" is a gross exaggeration. To even go as far as to call the rework a failure is pushing it.

 

 

 

 

 

Viral procs are a great debuff, Toxin procs are horrible. She doesn't even have corrosive procs

Half the time it takes to do that someone else has already killed the enemies you're targeting. The mandatory combos are too slow even with NAtural Talent and thus kills enemies a very small portion of the time if at all.

[YasaiTsume]

Half the time it takes to do that someone else has already killed the enemies you're targeting. The mandatory combos are too slow even with NAtural Talent and thus kills enemies a very small portion of the time if at all.

Yu have no idea how wrong yu are :3

I have already met various Saryn players who mastered the combo. They can Spore an Enemy while Bullet jumping, Cast Molt while Bullet jumping, and Cancel Bullet jump into Miasma.

Good Saryn players can effectively complete the entire combo in as much time as to finish a Bullet jump.

 

"But captain, why Bullet Jump? Whats so good about it?"

It pops Spores. 

Edited February 9, 2016 by YasaiTsume

[Latiac]

The problem here is the cost of the abilities and the fact you have to mod for everything.

 

You want max spore range? That'll need overextended which means no power strength for Miasma.

 

Want effeciency to cast these abilities? You need fleeting to get anywhere decent and guess what? Less Duration for ticks.

 

Also the fact that other rework threads gathered an average of a couple hundred posts in reply, Saryn's reached a couple thousand.

 

No matter what DE may think, this rework was a complete disaster, she's kinda useable against some lower tier stuff but you can't mod for everything, I'd revert her to her previous state and change things upwards from there. Miasma was good, it cleared rooms but it had a catch, negative power strength so her other abilities basically became useless and the damage fell off in the late 40's. Make this similar to Nova, Negative Power strength does this to miasma but negatively effects her other abilities, Then keep the power duration and change mechanics for Spore so a Miasma with a spored enemy / Viral proc nearby did double damage, effectively giving us two ways to play saryn instead of the mandatory spam everything and hope you don't run out of energy.

 

Also the HP nerf was uncalled for personally, if Toxic lash is useable (It probably still isn't) then Saryn needs to get up close, why would you nerf the HP?

 

The rework was a nerf into the ground, and I've stuck by this for months after.

[Hellmaker2004]

The problem here is the cost of the abilities and the fact you have to mod for everything.

 

Whaaaaat, her ability's are effected by more than one mod stat, how silly. No other frame in the game has that requirement.

 

 

Also the HP nerf was uncalled for personally, if Toxic lash is useable (It probably still isn't) then Saryn needs to get up close, why would you nerf the HP?

 

This however is something i agree on, she seems a little bit squishy for a frame that focuses on melee, in a lot of games it would be fine. But sadly there is no "Tanking" so a Glass cannon melee frame in Warframe, make very little sense. She may not be the glassiest frame. But she is by no imagination a very tanky one.

[Latiac]

Whaaaaat, her ability's are effected by more than one mod stat, how silly. No other frame in the game has that requirement.

 

 

It's not the fact that they are effected by more than one stat, it's that they all use different stats completely as in Strength, effeciency duration and range, which currently we can't do to the best of our abilities since we'd have mods decreasing range to boost strengh and vice versa, We wouldn't be able to maximise the damage potential without reducing the range, and vice versa which would effectively cripple her. You can build for a 'Average' build that focuses on everything, but then she becomes sub-par and other frames can do it better.

[ranks21]

saryn is very underwhelming and is relegated to low  and mid level missions. the returns on her ability to time  energy cost and enemies armor and power makes her a high risk frame to use in any serious mission going long no matter how you slice it.

 

 so many high level players using saryn cant even back up their words  and prove that she is better than before the rework. so many tried and failed hard using her past level 60 high armored units..

 

 looks around in sorties >> no saryn

 

looks around in high level grineer missions= no saryn

 

 looks around infested missions oh sht a saryn player= that where she is seen mostly  and last I checked those enemies don't shoot back. if the combo abilities  was so much better she would be seen everywhere and not just infested mission.

 

she don't even last 45 mins against sentients and the acolytes wrecks her so bad.

Edited February 10, 2016 by ranks21

[Hellmaker2004]

It's not the fact that they are effected by more than one stat, it's that they all use different stats completely as in Strength, effeciency duration and range, which currently we can't do to the best of our abilities since we'd have mods decreasing range to boost strengh and vice versa, We wouldn't be able to maximise the damage potential without reducing the range, and vice versa which would effectively cripple her. You can build for a 'Average' build that focuses on everything, but then she becomes sub-par and other frames can do it better.

 

A a lot of Frames need / use a lot of different stats to boost each individual power by itself. Now i am not saying that there are not obvious exception because there are. What i am saying is that if anything to go by, i would say that Saryn is the example in how every Frame should work.

There should be no case where a negative stat make a ability better. All ability's should be effected by almost all the power manipulating mods in the way that you want higher values in almost all the areas. Of course there will be exception but the overall concept should be that all ability's are effected.

We are clearly not there, as there are many frames who don't use values or even worse. Get stronger when they get a lower than 100% Value. But the game should start moving more towards the redesign of where Saryn went, ratter than to stay where she was. Maybe she needs a tweak here and a tweak there. But overall her kit is one of the better designs i have seen in a Frame.

[Latiac]

A a lot of Frames need / use a lot of different stats to boost each individual power by itself. Now i am not saying that there are not obvious exception because there are. What i am saying is that if anything to go by, i would say that Saryn is the example in how every Frame should work.

There should be no case where a negative stat make a ability better. All ability's should be effected by almost all the power manipulating mods in the way that you want higher values in almost all the areas. Of course there will be exception but the overall concept should be that all ability's are effected.

We are clearly not there, as there are many frames who don't use values or even worse. Get stronger when they get a lower than 100% Value. But the game should start moving more towards the redesign of where Saryn went, ratter than to stay where she was. Maybe she needs a tweak here and a tweak there. But overall her kit is one of the better designs i have seen in a Frame.

 

Each to their own.

 

Personally her new kit is awful in my opinion, Awful, Unfun and a chore to use and mod for. Why cast Spore, Toxic Lash and Miasma or Spore / Miasma when I can Mow down enemies with a weapon, or my teammates can do the same while i'm setting up.

 

Excaliburs and frost's reworks were amazing, DE should have done a similar thing here with her and Mesa, Change things up a tiny bit, reworking EVERYTHING pretty much gave her the 'Pre buff Ember Treatment.'

Edited February 10, 2016 by Latiac

[ClinkzEastwood]

I'm not playing her as a tank, i'm playing her not at all haha. 

I see.

[ClinkzEastwood]

Anyway, Saryn's strength is that she can kill very quick at low level, while her damage can't fall off at high level.

Most frame's damage fall off, even the like of Chroma or Mirage, but Saryn's damage output actually increase with time. Viral proc is one thing, but the stack+restack toxin proc is what really shine. The more enemies+the longer they last, the toxin proc damage output will increase until infinite number. Saryn is the dps frame that you could bring everywhere, from low level exterminate to 10 hours survival.

Why cast Spore, Toxic Lash and Miasma or Spore / Miasma when I can Mow down enemies with a weapon, or my teammates can do the same while i'm setting up.

 

You don't play here at all right? Because according to this sentence I see you don't.

[Latiac]

Anyway, Saryn's strength is that she can kill very quick at low level, while her damage can't fall off at high level.

Most frame's damage fall off, even the like of Chroma or Mirage, but Saryn's damage output actually increase with time. Viral proc is one thing, but the stack+restack toxin proc is what really shine. The more enemies+the longer they last, the toxin proc damage output will increase until infinite number. Saryn is the dps frame that you could bring everywhere, from low level exterminate to 10 hours survival.

You don't play here at all right? Because according to this sentence I see you don't.

 

I play the game frequently. Many times when I set up Spore to get the Viral procs to double Miasma's damage a Frost Avalanches or someone mows a line of enemies down with a Tonkor or Soma, Why would I spend time setting up if the enemies will die before I get the chance to unleash Miasma?

 

Don't accuse someone of 'not playing the game'. It's a $&*^ move.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Latiac

[ClinkzEastwood]

I play the game frequently. Many times when I set up Spore to get the Viral procs to double Miasma's damage a Frost Avalanches or someone mows a line of enemies down with a Tonkor or Soma, Why would I spend time setting up if the enemies will die before I get the chance to unleash Miasma?

 

Don't accuse someone of 'not playing the game'. It's a $&*^ move.

I'm not accusing you for not playing the game. I'm accusing you for talking random S#&$ without know how to actually play the frame. And evidently you don't.

Edited February 10, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[Latiac]

I'm not accusing you for not playing the game. I'm accusing you for talking random S#&$ without know how to actually play the frame. And evidently you don't.

 

So I don't know how to play the frame because an ally manages to kill all the enemies before Miasma gets the killing blow? Logical.

 

I know perfectly well how to play new Saryn, Do I like playing her? Yes, she's an awesome looking frame and is one of my favourite design wise.

Do I like the rework? No way. It can be satisfying seeing all the little numbers on screen and occasionally nuking a crowd of enemies (if teammates don't storm past and kill them all first that is) but it's far from great, she eats energy like there is no tommorow and at the end of the day is outclassed completely by many other frames.

[IceColdHawk]

 and at the end of the day is outclassed completely by many other frames.

Yep.

[ClinkzEastwood]

So I don't know how to play the frame because an ally manages to kill all the enemies before Miasma gets the killing blow? 

Yes.

The fact that you use Miasma at all for dps gave it away.

Now l2p again.

[Latiac]

Yes.

The fact that you use Miasma at all for dps gave it away.

Now l2p again.

 

So this is what it comes down to eh? Calling people a Press 4 to win player. I see you are one of those people.

 

Stop thinking people who dislike the rework are simple 'Press 4 to win players' because it's far from the truth.

 

But brb gotta learn how to play again though because I care about DPS and use the term DPS as damage in general while modding a Saryn to be effective.

 

You are the kind of person this community could do without, that toxic attitude.

Edited February 10, 2016 by Latiac

[Freelancer27]

Well, all I can say simply...

 

Toxic Lash should be Toggled, since all the other abilities already have durations that are too meticulous watch over and can lead to some strain with energy usage.

 

Spores is a great ability. Molt and Miasma could use a buff.

[ClinkzEastwood]

So this is what it comes down to eh? Calling people a Press 4 to win player. I see you are one of those people.

 

Stop thinking people who dislike the rework are simple 'Press 4 to win players' because it's far from the truth.

 

But brb gotta learn how to play again though because I care about DPS and use the term DPS as damage in general while modding a Saryn to be effective.

 

You are the kind of person this community could do without, that toxic attitude.

My attitude fit Saryn's design.

Also I'm not calling you a Press 4 to win player. I'm calling you a player who expects to Press 4 to win with Saryn.

Saryn's damage output is actually a combination of her weapon and her spores. You don't press 214 with Saryn, you press 1 then fire your weapons, looking at your weapon spreading spore while your spore carry your weapon damage to other target.

At low level that combo will outright kill your enemy. At high level the damage will echo between your targets until they drop.

[Thebel]

I play the game frequently. Many times when I set up Spore to get the Viral procs to double Miasma's damage a Frost Avalanches or someone mows a line of enemies down with a Tonkor or Soma, Why would I spend time setting up if the enemies will die before I get the chance to unleash Miasma?

 

Don't accuse someone of 'not playing the game'. It's a $&*^ move.

 

I'm actually confused here since killing spored enemies spreads spores, which means that even though those initial enemies died, you now have other targets that are spored.

[paulogabbi]

maybe DE buff saryn after the prime  or its going to be another oberon you can make her good but  have allot of frames how is much better

[YasaiTsume]

maybe DE buff saryn after the prime  or its going to be another oberon you can make her good but  have allot of frames how is much better

In the end it is personal preference.

We can only bring 4 people into missions and people who want to go the furthest will just follow the meta, cos it is less forgiving when yu mess up.

I have personally played Saryn deep into Level 100~ Grineer Survival, she is actually pretty darn good when she cuts Health in half, and letting a guy with Ignis just roast them to ashes.

(Oh other weapons can do it too : Saryn has 25% bonus Status Duration, so she is allowed to fire and forget, People also run Corrosive anyways.)

People argue that Nova is better of doing that but let's be real, versus endgame enemies, Damage wise only, doing say, 1000 damage x 2 is way lesser than just removing half the Hp of a Level 100 unit. 

[NezuHimeSama]

The only thing I really want to see changed is miasma. It should be full channeling. It doesn't have the range or damage to be useful as-is anymore.

What is useful is toxic lash. Throw in molt and spore for utility. Spore's damage is too weak to be useful, but if you hit something with it at full health, it's twice as easy to kill, making your already powerful melee hits even more effective.

I think the damage buff TL provides is rather small when compared to other damage buffs, and it should work on a group rather than just on Saryn alone.

 

 

In the end it is personal preference.

We can only bring 4 people into missions and people who want to go the furthest will just follow the meta, cos it is less forgiving when yu mess up.

I have personally played Saryn deep into Level 100~ Grineer Survival, she is actually pretty darn good when she cuts Health in half, and letting a guy with Ignis just roast them to ashes.

(Oh other weapons can do it too : Saryn has 25% bonus Status Duration, so she is allowed to fire and forget, People also run Corrosive anyways.)

People argue that Nova is better of doing that but let's be real, versus endgame enemies, Damage wise only, doing say, 1000 damage x 2 is way lesser than just removing half the Hp of a Level 100 unit. 

 

Let's look at some math here:

 

If an enemy has 80,000 health, and you cut it in half and deal 1000 damage, it will take 40 hits.

If an enemy has 80,000 health, and you deal 2000 damage, it will take 40 hits.

 

Notice a similarity here?

But wait, there is a difference.

 

If an enemy has 80,000 health but only has 60,000 remaining, and you cut that max HP in half and deal 1000 damage a hit, it will take 40 hits.

If an enemy has 80,000 health but only has 60,000 remaining, and you do 2000 damage per hit, it will take 30 hits.

 

But wait, there's more!

 

If an enemy is hit by mprime, it becomes an easier target, on top of exploding on death, dealing damage to nearby units! This also reduces the enemy's effective damage, as their attack/fire rate is also lowered, as is the time it takes for them to get into position!

 

So, not only is nova 100% more effective at supporting mob-killing than Nova, but also provides better defensive aspects, deals more direct damage more quickly, doesn't need a target or setup to provide support, and is more mobile.

 

Mind you, this isn't really a problem with Saryn. Spore is a 1, Mprime is a 4. Mprime should be better. The problem is that Miasma is S#&$, through and through.

Edited February 10, 2016 by NezuHimeSama