Razorback, Divine Waste Of Time And Ideas To Fix It

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

Yesterday i tried the new "Divine Will" Event it had Nef in with supposely and his latest creation: Razorback, i was intrigued by what could it be! It was a lower lvl mission so i went with my dear Ember with some gear i needed to Lv up. Then i got gangbanged by two Hyenas and a bunch of Bursas.

 

I went back, this time with my Valkyr and i was able to push through the Hyenas and Bursas until i finally reached him and i was Surpriced by his size, then the cinematic started and it hit me: This guy looks and moves exactly like Jackas, i mean Jackal.

 

My Fears where confirmed when the fight started and he attack just like Jackal, exept instead of shooting one shot, lock on rockets he shoots Lazer balls that can fry you if you get close as they travel and rockets that deal decent damage but are not instakill, thank god.

 

Here is how the fight goes. It's exactly the same fight as with Jackas but instead of us hitting the legs we need to hack a Bursa to do it for us, now this bothers me Gameplay and Logic.

Gameplay

 It feels like this was made for a bigger stage where Bursas would be running around Razorback and part of the Tenno team would get Razorback's attention while the other hunt for Bursas to hack without being shot by Razorback itself and the Bursas can get a few cheap shots before it notices.

In its current stage the fight is rather annoying as Bursas and up in small rooms around the stage protected by laser lines you have to avoid by walking from behind then disabling the Bursa so you can hack it so it can shoot at Razorback and somehow shot down its shield giving you a few seconds to attack before he dies.

I defeated Razorback, alone with a Un-forma Valkyr and a rank 4 Radiation Ignis. If i could defeat this "Divine Creation" with minimal gear i can't imagine what a team of Tenno could do to this thing. The fight is a Joke, i know Valkyr is a tank but it was hilarious to stay in the middle of the room looking around where the next Bursa spawned while poor Razorback was shooting missiles and machine gun fire endlessly and the damage was simply legible, the only thing that was doing constant damage and could actually kill me where the balls of energy and shoot lazors at me.

I would even say that the Hyenas and Bursas before the fight had more firepower than this waste of machinery, cause that was Razorback feels a waste of resources, feels like Nef put all its money on making sure our weapons where ineffective against the shield but for some reason not from his own Bursa's weapons, more on that later, blew the budget on that and had to scrap some crappy weapons from a scrap yard or something.

 

Logical

First of all yes i do know this is a game with space ninjas with magical powers fighting aliens, robots and what not with Rifles, chemical launchers and steam powered hammers in space so one shouldn't apply logic to this. But im talking In Game logic here as DE has been doing a good job being consistent (in the later years at least) when it comes to the Warframe Logic.

What bothers me on this boss is the logic behind its gameplay, here we have a large Robot with a Shield that is somehow immune to any of our weapons. No matter the type of damage the shields won't fade and you can't even pass through it with toxic or gas like it normally would. However the Bursa weapons can damage it for some reason.

Why can the weapons of the bursa damage Razorback and why only when we hack them? It's not like they have special weapons or anything, they basically only wield uber versions of weapons we have seen before like Energy Shotguns and Railgun fire. Why can't we do the same as we have more advance versions of their weapons? why do they only last a few seconds after hacking? why cant they continue until shot down? would be an interesting idea

I guess his low damage is because he will probably replace the Jackas but if thats the case he is a little too complicated for new player, i mean Jackall is like what the third boss? and by complicated i mean how is a small team of newbies supposed to fight a Bursa? i want to stress the Bursas are a bigger threat than the Razorback due to their variety of tools to disable a tenno like frost auras, Shotgun shots, Grapling hocks and shockwaves. A single Bursa would be more than enough to wipe out a team of newbies and i suppose they woudlnt have to fight the Hyenas but again a Bursa is a dangerous foe, specially for a Tenno who is still getting its gear in place and trying to understand the basics of the game.

 

HOW COULD WE FIX IT?

This wouldn't be a feedback forum if i didn't give some ideas to fix a problem right? For me Razorback should be left as a special boss that shouldn't be approached by newbies, kinda like how Uncle Hek is about 5 lvls higher than anything on earth.

Give him a new arena, i would say  a large battlefield like place. Flat for the most part with a few boxes and maybe destroyed equipment around for Tenno to take cover behind. Give him a stronger armor and remove the shield. Almsot amp up the firepower a bit, specially on the gattling guns but DONT MAKE THEM INSTAKILL, instakill are cheap specially when they follow you (im looking at you Phorid).

Its all to make it feel more like you and your team are fighting a powerful war machine, or in this case a powerful machine with "Divine power". Also have Bursas running around, however this bursas, when hacked, should recover half their HP and fight for you until they die, its a sort of way to try and lvl the play field against the boss, of course Razorback will kill them quick if they are too close to him but if he turns around to kill a Bursa those are precious seconds hes not attacking your team.

Also as a little surprise what if he is immune to crits? by that i mean you can't crit when attacking him, maybe only his head can't take crits, or maybe the joins on its legs. Or maybe omething like the Hyperion robots from borderlands who had powerful armor that resisted almost all elements except for Corrosive and Slag, they are a good base for a boss like this i feel.

 

Those are my ideas and opinions on Nef's latest "Divine intervention", do you think the same, do you have other opinions about it or other ideas to improve it? leave them down below and see what happens.

THANKS FOR READING.

Edited February 12, 2016 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[Omega-Shadowblade]

You doubled up your explanation. Might want to edit that so its a somewhat smaller wall of text.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

You doubled up your explanation. Might want to edit that so its a somewhat smaller wall of text.

well thats weird thanks for pointin it out

[WolfTitan]

Well, if it was as simple as "kill it fast because you can do insane damage," then it wouldn't be a tactical alert. It would be a simple assassination mission on any planet.

The cap on damage makes the event viable for everyone, including newcomers.

Tactical alerts call upon skill and new tactics, not raw damage output.

Edited February 12, 2016 by WolfTitan

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

No.

 

Whatever was that you wrote, I didn't bothered to read it all. Note for the future you: don't waste your time with walls of text. Be simple and concise next time, otherwise it will do far more bad than good.

How can you say its a waste of time if you didnt read it all. I have heard this claim time and time again yet i see alot of post wtih walls of text, if your too lazy to read it then dont comment on it unless you have a legitimate reason

Well, if it was as simple as "kill it fast because you can do insane damage," then it wouldn't be a tactical alert. It would be a simple assassination mission on any planet.

The cap on damage makes the event viable for everyone, including newcomers.

Tactical alerts call upon skill and new tactics, not raw damage output.

Its not a new tactic, its the same tactic with Jackal exept instead of shooting his legs yourself you have to tell someone else to do it.

[AethonWalker]

The logic behind it can be explained I suppose. We don't magically avoid our allies when shooting/hacking away with melee, and neither do most of the enemies. The only thing I can say is that hacking a Bursa changes whatever frequency they fire their weaponry in or something, which allows them to target the Razorback. To top it off, we don't have all the Bursa weaponry. Some have the ability to cripple a warframe's movement/abilities, so it's plausible that they have something to rip Razorback apart when rewired.

 

A bigger arena would be neater for the fight, along with fixing how/where the Bursas spawn. AI in Warframe has always proven to bug out at some point, so instead of trying to fix it during a time-limited event, why not bypass some of the problems altogether?

 

I like puzzle bosses and all, but relying on temperamental AI to function perfectly isn't a good idea. Plus, you can't Ripline the Bursas, and idk if Switch Teleport works (likely not), so it's not like a player can change their approach to adjust.

[Eredoc]

Its not a new tactic, its the same tactic with Jackal exept instead of shooting his legs yourself you have to tell someone else to do it.

 

It did require new tactics, because you couldn't damage the Razorback without the help with Bursas, and honestly, it was a breathe of fresh air, there's too many bosses in this game that is just mindless shooting, and a few exceptions are Lt Lech Krill and Mutalist Alad V and those fights are far more entertaining than Vor, than the Jackal because they require more to damage the boss.

 

I like puzzle bosses and all, but relying on temperamental AI to function perfectly isn't a good idea. Plus, you can't Ripline the Bursas, and idk if Switch Teleport works (likely not), so it's not like a player can change their approach to adjust.

 

I won't deny that the Bursa AI isn't perfect but no AI will be, I often found it best to let the Bursa out of its pen and then Hack it, Only troubles I had were when people killed the bursa before it could be freed, and to answer your question, from what I hear, the Bursa can be teleported by ST.

[Specific.Zod]

So you simply want it become bullet sponge? Go play vay hek. I don't mind new players, as long as they don't die and do anything stupid.

And you said from lose wise?

Then we shouldn't be able to hack bursa either, or easy getting through the map to razorback, or fight razorback solo. From lose wise, razorback will be protected by xx amount of new hyena, xxx amount of bursa, and xxxx amount of normal unit, not even counting eximus spam. So if you want lore wise, maybe witcher 3 suit you? Full of lore.

P/s: this event require tactics, not more bullet, go solo with other frames, see how hard it is. There are posts calling event so hard on them WHEN SOLO.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

The logic behind it can be explained I suppose. We don't magically avoid our allies when shooting/hacking away with melee, and neither do most of the enemies. The only thing I can say is that hacking a Bursa changes whatever frequency they fire their weaponry in or something, which allows them to target the Razorback. To top it off, we don't have all the Bursa weaponry. Some have the ability to cripple a warframe's movement/abilities, so it's plausible that they have something to rip Razorback apart when rewired.

 

A bigger arena would be neater for the fight, along with fixing how/where the Bursas spawn. AI in Warframe has always proven to bug out at some point, so instead of trying to fix it during a time-limited event, why not bypass some of the problems altogether?

 

I like puzzle bosses and all, but relying on temperamental AI to function perfectly isn't a good idea. Plus, you can't Ripline the Bursas, and idk if Switch Teleport works (likely not), so it's not like a player can change their approach to adjust.

I will have to defend the warframe AI here cause franky its one of the best i have seen, specially the Grineer who to be hones are pretty sofisticated, does it bug out sometimes? yeah but its inevitable all AI will bug out at some point but i will give props to DE their AI is pretty solid for the most part.

 

For what they do the Bursas are quite reliable, to the point i dont know how are they hitting Razorback half the time but there could be better options to make him vulnerable.

 

It did require new tactics, because you couldn't damage the Razorback without the help with Bursas, and honestly, it was a breathe of fresh air, there's too many bosses in this game that is just mindless shooting, and a few exceptions are Lt Lech Krill and Mutalist Alad V and those fights are far more entertaining than Vor, than the Jackal because they require more to damage the boss.

 

 

I won't deny that the Bursa AI isn't perfect but no AI will be, I often found it best to let the Bursa out of its pen and then Hack it, Only troubles I had were when people killed the bursa before it could be freed, and to answer your question, from what I hear, the Bursa can be teleported by ST.

If we are talking breath of fresh Air i have to mention Tyr Regor, he was pretty different from most bossess cause he doesnt stand still, he dodges, runs erratically and teleports at random to get in a hit you in melee. Razorback on the other hand feels like hes disguising his lack of depth by making the process needlessly longer.

 

If they wanted to make Razorback more of a puzzle boss how about maybe he has an invulnerable shield that is powered in another part of the stage so maybe the team has to split up where one goes to face Razorback while the other shuts down the Generator and defends it from enemies trying to fix it, and by enemies i mean Hyenas protecting crewmen.

 

Something that requires true teamwork not artifitially making the fight longer.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

BUMP cause we got a follower WEEEEE

[iBlockattack]

Walls of redundancy .

[DSpite]

It's a Tactical Alert, something DE normally uses to test a bunch of things to use on future things. They are usually fairly raw to play, and that is the entire point, they exist to test whatever DE needs to get tested.

 

I fail to understand why the OP had "expectations". DE can't very well "balance" something they just brought out, the whole point here is to run the mission as is so when the enemy is actually introduced later it will work properly.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

It's a Tactical Alert, something DE normally uses to test a bunch of things to use on future things. They are usually fairly raw to play, and that is the entire point, they exist to test whatever DE needs to get tested.

 

I fail to understand why the OP had "expectations". DE can't very well "balance" something they just brought out, the whole point here is to run the mission as is so when the enemy is actually introduced later it will work properly.

Well i didnt got that memo, i though tactical alerts where special alerts, that require some kind of tactic

 

If anything then im just doing what im supposed to right? give feedback of what i played?

Edited February 13, 2016 by The_Sharp_Demonologist

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

bump

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

come on people

[-CdG-Zilchy]

I'm just curious, did you do the second endurance mission? Saying Razorback is weak etc suggests you've only done the 1st mission and not the 2nd where his rockets can wreck you and he has an obscene amount of health.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

I'm just curious, did you do the second endurance mission? Saying Razorback is weak etc suggests you've only done the 1st mission and not the 2nd where his rockets can wreck you and he has an obscene amount of health.

Nah i got bored of the first fight and went to do other things, like running some infested invations for some easy money.

 

Dont tell me his Rockets can one shot again....

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Oh my yes. And he has about 10 times the health and armour :(

The rewards are different too, you get a random mod from completing the mission. Annoyingly the 4 toxin mods are in the table but you can also get the 4 past Puncture event mods Bore, Auger Strike, Breachloader and Piercing Caliber.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Zilchy

[Herosupport]

razor back needs these simple changes;

 

-the removal of the damage cap when its vulnerable to damage with a 5 second window.

 

-a 5 second cool down on its stomp knock down ability

 

-Corrupted Vor's elemental status mods be replaced with R5 x5 core packs or the Electric elemental status mods.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Great changes, also get rid of missiles homing in on invisible Tenno lol.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

razor back needs these simple changes;

 

-the removal of the damage cap when its vulnerable to damage with a 5 second window.

 

-a 5 second cool down on its stomp knock down ability

 

-Corrupted Vor's elemental status mods be replaced with R5 x5 core packs or the Electric elemental status mods.

I did noticed that when i was trying to hit his legs with the hysteria (before i knew about the Bursa thing) he just stomped over and over

 

Great changes, also get rid of missiles homing in on invisible Tenno lol.

And lower their damage them whats up with DE and one shot skills sheesh

[AethonWalker]

I did noticed that when i was trying to hit his legs with the hysteria (before i knew about the Bursa thing) he just stomped over and over

 

And lower their damage them whats up with DE and one shot skills sheesh

I'm laughing right now because DE doesn't want us pulling One-Hit Knockouts and yet it seems to be their favorite technique for us pesky ninjas. It just reminded me of Gaige's Anarchy tree from Borderlands 2. They might have trouble hitting ya but when they do it'll hurt.

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

I'm laughing right now because DE doesn't want us pulling One-Hit Knockouts and yet it seems to be their favorite technique for us pesky ninjas. It just reminded me of Gaige's Anarchy tree from Borderlands 2. They might have trouble hitting ya but when they do it'll hurt.

Or dont want Rhino to be immortal yet they release Wukong. Or Valkyr and her Hysteria