Maxed Tonkor Build But Putting Bane Of Infested Will Lower Dmg Even Vs Infested

[SoulEaterReaper]

usually bonus damage towards a faction does give a bonus dmg, taking away 3000 dmg from tonkor to replace with bane wich will then make the 2500 dmg +55% towards infested just makes it weaker.

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[egregiousRac]

That's pretty obvious. You are replacing your only +90% mod with a +55% mod.

 

Replace Hammer Shot or Heavy Caliber instead, preferably the former. It really isn't justifiable on anything.

 

 

Even then, you are better off putting on a toxin mod instead of the Bane mod. Corrosive is good stuff.

Edited February 16, 2016 by egregiousRac

[Kthal]

Replace Hammer Shot with a second element for vastly increased damage.

 

Then Argon Scope of Heavy Caliber are the next weakest mods, either of which could be replaced with a bane for increased damage output. I'd recommend Argon Scope as you aren't really going to be aiming continuously with the Tonkor.

[SoulEaterReaper]

without argon scope my weapon loses way 2 much, and red criticals = 14x multiplier.

 

and i tested taking away hammer shot first time i added it but supricingly my red crits were lower damage than with viral.

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[Autongnosis]

Bane mods work mostly on base damage guns and not on crit guns.

Crit guns already have a lot of slots locked (6 to be precise - base damage, multishot, crit mods, a combo element) and thus generally have way less build freedom than base damage guns

The Primed ones are a good replacement for Heavy Caliber though, giving a +55% total damage bonus vs Heavy Caliber's +62% (a net increase of just +4.6% over total damage at the expense of accuracy) for anything non-Void related.

The only setup where the Bane mod drastically outperforms the normal one is the pure Toxin against Corpus that completely ignores shielding when dealing damage, cutting out a pretty damn huge chunk of effective HPs from any Corpus enemy except the Bursas, particularly in Enhanced Shields Sortie missions.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Autongnosis

[SoulEaterReaper]

yeah thats exacly why there should be a change to bane mods. 55% is too little, and 150% is more like it.

 

taking away electricity will give a -2900 dmg, taking away heavy caliber is almost the same output, around -3000 dmg.

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[TwevOWNED]

Bane mods are only really effective after you already have one or two 90% elementals on. If you have one 90% a primed bane mod will out perform the other elemental by a small margin, while if you already had two 90% elemental mods a primed bane will vastly outdo a third 90%.

 

I'd also swap out argon scope for critical delay for more consistency, but that's just me.

[SoulEaterReaper]

Bane mods are only really effective after you already have one or two 90% elementals on. If you have one 90% a primed bane mod will out perform the other elemental by a small margin, while if you already had two 90% elemental mods a primed bane will vastly outdo a third 90%.

 

I'd also swap out argon scope for critical delay for more consistency, but that's just me.

tonkor explosions activates argon scope instantly almost everytime.

 

aswell as 103% = 3 % chance of red crits, wich is equal to never. with argon scope its there almost in every single shot.

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[Autongnosis]

I'm not saying it's bad at all actually.

Also, you're borking your numbers. Slotting the second elemental (the right one) rirses your damage from 1.9x to 4.15x (considering the +75%), a net increase of +118.42%, second only to Serration. That's apparent for Infested where Ancients are the only units that get really tough late on except for the occasional Charger Parasitic Eximus, and even more apparent versus armoured units since Corrosive and Radiation, on top of the +75% vs their respective armour tipes, also reduce armour values when calculating damage by the same amout (75%) and thus vastly outdamage any other element in their niche.

Bottom line is, never ever break your elemental combo.

EDIT: for reference the total damage increment works like this for the Tonkor, in order of best to worst:

- First elemental combo +315% vs beneficial, +180% vs neutral

- Serration +165%

- Crit mods +123.77%

- Split Chamber +90%

- Heavy Caliber +62%

- Primed Bane mod +55%

- Bladed Rounds +53.75%

- Argon Scope +43.06%

- Normal Bane mod +30%

- Third element beneficial to faction +27.11%

- Hammer Shot +26.58%

Which by the way is also the order in which you want to slot your mods when modding a weapon that's not max rank.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Autongnosis

[SoulEaterReaper]

okay maybe i have based my tonkor build mostly against those acolytes and the acolyte boss. against the boss without buffs i had quite the more damage with hammer shot. instead of Viral.

 

and so far it seems to be just going to the test grounds. and or see other builds that exceeds my damage by today.

 

this is what i used to have,

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[Autongnosis]

Another thing: for max raw damage per trigger pull the absolute best build is Serration, Split Chamber, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Heavy Caliber, Bladed Rounds plus a combo element sitting at 65k per trigger pull, closely followed by the one tat swaps out Heavy Caliber and slots Argon Scope sitting at 58k.

[SoulEaterReaper]

3 elemental with the mods above - heavy caliber = 7424 total http://i.imgur.com/ilwswlc.jpg

2 elemental without third elemental + heavy caliber = 9149 http://i.imgur.com/RVcAbKM.png

3 elemental with the mods above - heavy caliber = 7424 total

2 elemental without third elemental + heavy caliber = 9149

idk where heavy caliber became so weak. adding +165% dmg or +90

do you want a multiplier of x11 or do you want a multiplier of x7 / x8 ? obvious answer. bladed rounds is for weapons that doesn't get into red crits.

like you get into things like, oh you have +150% crit chance with argon scope so that means your 11x multiplier is the same as 7.5-8 since 50% of each shot is red crits.

nobody really is that interested in the average damage, people just wants the highest damage numbers.

 

and at last, the damage numbers seemed to be higher with 1 elemental rather then 2 and using hammer shot instead.

and thats kinda odd to me.

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[SoulEaterReaper]

just did a t4 defence as frost with viral build, highest damage i saw was 260-270k on red criticals, was never any damage above 300k towards any type of enemy.

 

as the wiki provides so bad information about damage 2.0 towards corrupted, even this http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Corrupted_Tab

doesn't say any damage multipliers towards corrupted AND or even if corrupted is neutral and has no multipliers, poor way of giving information about corrupted if you ask me, even if i goto corrupted ancient it doesn't say anything, it just says armor 400 then displays damage types viral etc not saying if they are - or + or anything at all. so i take it corrupted are neutral and -0% towards any.

and if not then why dont you tell me a little bit about corrupted units?

 

and if thats true and if i get 300k+ without any buffs on next build then i know wich is strongest.

there was no buffs, or cp's in that game, trinity , frost, loki , and ash prime.

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[WingsOfGryphin]

That's pretty obvious. You are replacing your only +90% mod with a +55% mod.

 

Replace Hammer Shot or Heavy Caliber instead, preferably the former. It really isn't justifiable on anything.

 

 

Even then, you are better off putting on a toxin mod instead of the Bane mod. Corrosive is good stuff.

You are wrong to compare bane 55% with elemental 90%. +90% elemental mod gives 90% damage, but it's additive while bane mods are multiplicative. To put it in simple exmaple - if you add 90% elemental mod to 100 damage weapon you get 190 damage, add another one you get 280, while bane mod after that 190 will give you 294.5 dmg. The difference in usefulness is massively noticeable if you add 3 elemental mods vs 2 elements and 1 bane - 100 + 3*90% = 370 dmg, while (100+2*90%)*1.55 = 280*1.55=434 dmg. 

Problem here is that you need at least 1 elemental mod to get good return from bane. And that's the reason i hate crit weapons - they got 0 mod slots for anything. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by WingsOfGryphin

[SoulEaterReaper]

we already knowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

 

bane stacks and elemental doesn't k. dont need to make so long text for us to get it.

100 base and have total +400% dmg with other sht on it and you have 500 dmg, if you take away 1 mod you might end up with 300 dmg but +55% of that 300 dmg and in total you end up with 465 dmg wich is lower.

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[Ashnal]

just did a t4 defence as frost with viral build, highest damage i saw was 260-270k on red criticals, was never any damage above 300k towards any type of enemy.

 

as the wiki provides so bad information about damage 2.0 towards corrupted, even this http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Corrupted_Tab

doesn't say any damage multipliers towards corrupted AND or even if corrupted is neutral and has no multipliers, poor way of giving information about corrupted if you ask me, even if i goto corrupted ancient it doesn't say anything, it just says armor 400 then displays damage types viral etc not saying if they are - or + or anything at all. so i take it corrupted are neutral and -0% towards any.

and if not then why dont you tell me a little bit about corrupted units?

 

and if thats true and if i get 300k+ without any buffs on next build then i know wich is strongest.

there was no buffs, or cp's in that game, trinity , frost, loki , and ash prime.

You're having issues with the wiki? It's pretty clear to me.

 

Corrupted Ancient article reads that they have a base health type of 400 Fossilized and shows the icons for which damage types get multipliers. Each icon has + or - next to it to indicate a bonus or penalty. If you click on fossilized it gives you an even easier to read breakdown. Corrupted units have pretty much the same damage type bonuses and penalties as their non-corrupted counterparts. Simply look up which health type a unit has, then compare it to the Damage 2.0 chart and you're good to go. Slow down and read carefully.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Ashnal

[Tulzscha]

Please be advised, we have a specific subforum for advice/tips/builds/asking for help:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-please-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/

 

Moved to the proper section.

[Capetoider]

Either Argon Scope or Bladed Rounds make you have to keep aiming... is that really how you use a explosive weapon like Tonkor?

 

Instead of counting on big (overkill) numbers... maybe a more versatility on the actual gameplay can increase survivability and maybe sustained DPS (you would be moving and shooting and not... camping and waiting...

 

At least is how I roll =p

[(PSN)Darkfurygaming]

Do yall have a spare argon scope ill trade defiled snapdragon. My tonkor is really op'd

[SoulEaterReaper]

guess i heard some smartass mr21 saying bane mods doesn't work vs corrupted, cant do anything else than blaming him for missinforming me/others.

 

annyway, k. difference with hammer shot and or viral is really small. i just gave it a shot to use ember x3 multiplier and fire damage on tonkor, that did not seem to show the effect yet even on wave 40, even tho normal numbers was around 250-350k on red crits. and with multiplier it should been around 600k normaly. but it didn't show up.

but one question then since i feel like this system is rather $&*&*#(%& in terms of buffs and such,

 

banshee + rhino roar = x12 multiplier or x20?

makes no sence if it only gives x12, cause rhino makes you deal x2 dmg. banshee makes enemy take another x10 damage. 

i have a weapon that deals 1 damage, with banshee weakspot it deals 10 damage,

but when i use rhino roar my damage is 2 and with banshee weakspot should then increase 2 with its multiplier x10 = 20 damage. wich is twice the amount than without a rhino. 

Edited February 16, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper

[egregiousRac]

You are wrong to compare bane 55% with elemental 90%. +90% elemental mod gives 90% damage, but it's additive while bane mods are multiplicative. To put it in simple exmaple - if you add 90% elemental mod to 100 damage weapon you get 190 damage, add another one you get 280, while bane mod after that 190 will give you 294.5 dmg. The difference in usefulness is massively noticeable if you add 3 elemental mods vs 2 elements and 1 bane - 100 + 3*90% = 370 dmg, while (100+2*90%)*1.55 = 280*1.55=434 dmg. 

Problem here is that you need at least 1 elemental mod to get good return from bane. And that's the reason i hate crit weapons - they got 0 mod slots for anything. 

 

Oh I am well aware. When you are replacing your only elemental mod with a Bane, as OP did, they are directly comparable however.

I would argue that in most cases the combo element from having two elemental mods is more important than that slight damage boost from the Bane though. Bane instead of a third element is pretty clear cut statistically.

 

 

Of course, I just run a Corrosive, Corrosive/Cold, or Corrosive/Fire build on everything and don't care about faction weaknesses. Not having to swap mods for different missions is nice.

[SoulEaterReaper]

thats why i already suggested they should increase the bane damages.

[Roboplus]

It's already been said. Bane mods aren't for crit weapons. They don't have room for them.

[TrinityPrime]

guess i heard some smartass mr21 saying bane mods doesn't work vs corrupted, cant do anything else than blaming him for missinforming me/others.

 

[size=1]<-- M.R. 21 not that it's relevant.[/size]

 

Bane mods don't work against corrupted.  They also don't work if the enemy is confused by radiation procs or similar effects.

[SoulEaterReaper]

also, try 1 elemental, and argon scope + bladed rounds.

= 8.5x multiplier on headshots, and on red crits = 17 multiplier.

oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh daym.

well its not that op annyway. having 2 elemental and x11 multiplier on red crits, or take away an elemental for x17 multiplier on headshot only.

Edited February 17, 2016 by SoulEaterReaper