I do not like the direction this game is taking.

[Herosupport]

Every time they introduce a new corpus unit its not done properly the nulifiers bubbles still need a nerf at least one where the bubble pops instantly if it takes enough damage. the bursa's suck they are poorly designed (punchthrough meaningless) and implemented into the game has you have pointed out. 

with event mods only the Dual stat elemental/status mods are worth collecting and they are obtainable in spy and infested Hive missions and corrupted Vor in tower 4. mods like piercing caliber do the amount of damage has a 90% elemental mod so no one is really missing out there so I'm not sure why DE is so tightfisted with those.

[Me.Greedy]

in the end Sorties are designed for 4 tenno. just like raids are designed for 8 players. you can solo Sorties, but why do that when you can have help and make it feel balanced instead of feeling overwhelmed? 

[YasaiTsume]

1 hour ago, CaterHowlett16 said:

 

You know what makes me sick the most? You said you were what? MR19? MR20? and endless waves of enemies and the idea of a mythical mob got to you? Dosen't going MR 19-20 mean that you're a hardened veteran player who isn't easily intimidated? I am MR 12 and apparently I have bigger cojones than you. This is a MMO, as in play together.....with other people, new players would be stupid to think that they can waltz into hard areas and expect to solo everything.    

 

Pretty much why I felt like OP was trying to hint hint that he was a veteran player, and I wonder how a veteran player could have problem with Bursas.

 

Spoiler

I guess when all yu do is kill Grineer on Draco, when yu actually meet something that isn't Grineer, shyt gets real.

Real real quick.

 

 

[CaterHowlett16]

Just now, YasaiTsume said:

Pretty much why I felt like OP was trying to hint hint that he was a veteran player, and I wonder how a veteran player could have problem with Bursas.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

I guess when all yu do is kill Grineer on Draco, when yu actually meet something that isn't Grineer, shyt gets real.

Real real quick.

 

 

I guess so

[EvilChaosKnight]

7 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

Guess there is no placing oneself in another one's shoes for some people...

Also Venus Def wave 15 confirmed for hard area by CaterHowlett16.

Edited February 26, 2016 by EvilChaosKnight

[Flirk2]

Ok, there were a lot more answers then I expected when I started the thread. So forgive me if I miss something.

8 hours ago, MumblesMcphatty said:

Right - so far as you're concerned - it's a UI issue - and your actions in a mission shouldn't affect the number of enemies you have to face? K ... What's that got to do with the thread?

As for the OP - completely lost as to what he's complaining about at this point. Supposed concern for newer players ... who will actually be experiencing a game with some solid difficulty and challenging enemies that require tactics to beat as opposed to the cakewalk most of us have experienced in the past couple of years. That's a good thing in my eyes - and since it doesn't actually affect most us at the stage we've reached - not sure what the issue is at all.

Especially since he know appears to have moved on to complaining about requiring specific mods to progress - which - while a less than perfect system - is the way it's always been. You can clear the starchart out to the outer planets without using Multishot mods whatsoever. Where's the beef?

What a bizarre thread. Have folks really been taking this game so easy for so long that a Bursa is actually considered some sort of impassable challenge? 

I'm beginning to suspect that I can't convey my thought in an understandable manner.

When did you go through Jupiter for the first time, I wonder, before or after the bursa infestation that is going on now started?

 

8 hours ago, AM-Bunny said:

According to the wiki, Split Chamber drops from Leech Ospreys and Sapping Ospreys. It's also a drop from Sargas Ruk, who appears somewhat early on.

It never dropped from those when I did not have it. The first split chamber I got, I got through transmutation. Then I got to Triton and split chambers started to rain on me to the point of transmutating some of them.

 

8 hours ago, NeroGrave said:

OP, when I look at your post and think back about it, I recall all the times when someone else would go into the forums and say "I just started Warframe recently and I already got everything in the game" or "This game is so easy", quite the contrary I suppose to your post. It's all a matter of how you bring about your own progress in this game and if you feel the amount of expectations piling up beyond your capabilities, try a different approach, or take a break for a while. The best is having a couple of friends over while you're doing missions, you will feel less burdened and you can help each other out for those spares that you missed out on.

P.S And yes, I do feel the grind is a load of BS sometimes mainly due to how it depends on RNG luck and not the amount of effort and time given from you. I myself played for almost 3 years and I still haven't got my Despair from Stalker. (RNG lol) DE did say a long, long time ago that they wanted to reduce the grind, but as you can see for almost more than a year later some have changed while the others.... Well that's a different topic I suppose.

I have a clan to play with. And I know how to use the recruiting. Problem was not in the difficulty of the mission. It was in the impossibility of it. The enemies spawned faster then I could kill them. And even if I could one-shot them, they would still spawn and increase the enemy count.

8 hours ago, DarcnyssWolfe said:

The grind can be tedious, luckily for me most the grinding has been reduced down to core farming only.

PS. Flirk2, add me if you get on again. Not sure your time zone but if I'm ever on I'd be willing to give you a hand with things.

Thank you, but as I said the problem I saw was not in the lack of teammates or gear or anything else in that sortie mission. It was the infinite spawns on extermination mission. And the general disdain for increasing the difficulty of normal missions on the starchart. To the point of introducing a normal enemy that is harder to kill then the planet's boss.

7 hours ago, Homer87 said:

On OP's issue with exterminate - I mainly notice that with Infested exterminates. The few extra units don't really bother me too much, but the extra units that the Juggernaut brings with it does. I personally try to avoid fighting the Juggernaut, as there is zero benefit in doing so (especially after completing the Jordas quest). I haven't noticed extra units spawning with Corpus. With the Grineer, it's mainly the Drahk Masters spawning in Drahks, and since they tend to stick together, that at least shortens the time it takes to look for those enemies.

I also thought of the new player, and wonder what they will say after they get their feet wet and the wonders of getting their starter frame and weapons wears off. I'll have to wait and see.

Thank you for your support.

I was stuck like this in the eris exterminate once on a loki with dread and don't remember what else. I had too stay invisible for ever, but went out of ammo and had to hack the Juggernaut the hard way just because I was not skilled enough in use of decoys and if I did not apply the invisibility  in time, he would one-shot me. But I did complete the mission and did not think it was a problem because

A - it was my mistake to not think if a juggernaut

B - there was only 1 juggrnaut

The only thing I need to reiterate is: "The bursa keep coming". No matter what you do, they will keep coming. It's not a matter of skill or having the right tools. It's an uphill battle against the bursa spawning mechanism.

7 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

OP was playing Ivara and somehow had a problem with Bursas. Ivara, who can always easily deal with them with a sleep arrow and a few quick-melee strikes in the back. Stealth multiplier wrecks everything.

For another thread I tested every unique Warframe with mediocre loadouts (no potatoes or corrupt mods etc, using an unpotatoed and unmaxed weapon) against a team of three level 30 Bursas and 14/28 of them had the means to make the fight pretty easily manageable. Most of the rest had a weaker but relevant capacity to handle them with some CC or other partially helping the effort.

If you couldn't handle a lone level 10 Bursa with a little time of paying attention and trying, I don't know what to say.

Needing Mods from rotation C rewards? I didn't have Split Chamber until I got one from the Void one day, and Barrel Diffusion evaded me even longer (jumped out of an ODD run early for it when Defenses only let you have one reward). Still got through the Star chart just fine - although a lot of changes and units have happened since then, it was still the entirety of non-void content.

It's not that hard to get through the star chart... and if you do hit a stumbling block, just opening yourself up to public matches will take care of it. That'll get you through a few planets to access some variety in warframes - and you have access to every basic resource except Control Modules once you've gotten Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn unlocked - all enemy levels 20 and under, at which point you can upgrade to a good weapon and start to walk through everything on your own again.

Did you read the post, I wonder? I'm going to quote your post here in all it's glory just for the shear irrelevance of the major points.

Level 10 bursa? Where did I say they were level 10 on Jupiter? They were level 22 on wave 10.

3 bursa? Try infinite spawns. Infinite. As in they keep spawning no matter what you do. On an exterminate mission of all things. Deal with that with any load out.

Yes it was a physical enhancement sortie mission. So? How are endless spawns in an exterminate mission fine?

And the going through star chart is easy comment... When did you go through it? If before the bursa got added to Venus of all things, then I"m sorry, but your opinion is outdated and irrelevant.

7 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Better check Google again, my first ever Serration came from 4 extractors on Earth Lua. Are you telling me that that's too much for a new player as well? 

Honestly I think players are getting soft, games used to be a lot harder to progress in than this. You're MR 19, one higher than me. If you had trouble with the Bursa's you're doing something wrong, they started spawning on me while I solo'd the Exterminate Sortie, so I dropped Air Support and no more spawned, problem fixed. I killed 5 lvl 58 Bursa's in that mission none of them were a problem. 

Now when I was a new player, I didn't even attempt to stay till wave 20 on early planets, because I knew it was beyond me. I understood my limits and struggled through the planets that I could manage. Nobody held my hand and I didn't attempt anything beyond my gear. Leaving after 5 waves allowed me to progress and over time, I gradually built up my mods and became more powerful but it took TIME. 2 days ago I played a Sortie 3 Survival with 2 others, one had 88 hrs playing time and the other had 130. One had a Valkyr, one had an Excal and unsurprisingly, both of them fell over a lot. After getting tired of reviving them I had to make a choice about continuing to do so or kill enemies for LS. I decided on the latter, they ran out of revives and called me a S#&$ team mate. If new players are poking their nose into a place that is far beyond their gear I have zero sympathy for them, the same goes if any new player decides to wander into a Corpus mission and stay beyond their limits. I have zero sympathy because I've been there and done it, they should realise their limits as I'm tired of carrying them all the time.

My personal feeling is that new players just want to rush through the game and become powerful straight away. Not only does this destroy the experience, it defeats the purpose of the game, it's supposed to be long play. It feels the same as when newbies were joining Diablo 2 and asking to be rushed through the game in a matter of hours. What's the point? This game is about farming, working your way to the endgame and farming more till you have everything. Beyond that, what's the point in playing? You just take a break and wait for content. The new players rushing will just reach endgame, get bored and leave, so they should take their time instead.

For the record I also put myself in a newbies shoes and gimped myself to take on Bursa's with low level weapons and either the starting frames or Rhino. Still not difficult, just requires some tactics and not trying to face tank every enemy. Some guy the other day said he can't beat Bursa's because of the glowing blob attack of the Isolator nullifying his Iron Skin umm try dodging?... It makes a shrill noise when about to fire it. Maybe the high level players need to do that for you too..

2 questions.

1. When did you see serration drop on Lua? Because I did so much of that in my time I still have some of the void keys I got there. And there were no serrations there then. Maybe it's changed. And that's good. But it does not fix the problem of bursa on low level planet.

2. Did you bother to read my post to the point where I said that bursa started to spawn when the consoles were unresponsive and Ordis did not think there was anything to shut down? And then the lockdown happened and I hacked twice, but the enemy counter kept rising?

 

6 hours ago, carnaga said:

To be constructive and polite you can read the OP again. As far as I understood OP loves the game but doesn't like the direction the game is going. Little by little he has narrowed the gameplay to exterminate missions and with latest updates and the exterminate missions he has been having fun with -- are becoming somewhat weird or something he doesn't like. And I agree with @Flirk2

Thank you for support But there seem to be a misunderstanding. I did moved from the exterminations to other mission types when I got the gear and some button pushing skills to enjoy those.

The endless extermination on which you eventually come to the point where there is nothng but bursa left and those keep spawning I am not in love with. :-)

6 hours ago, Zilchy said:

I had a lvl 80 Juggernaut spawn today after not killing anything to "amp up the fight". Perhaps I should start complaining that they're too hard to kill and make Sorties too hard etc. Nah I'll just kill it instead in Solo, which I did(though it killed me twice, spikes thru walls).

That's nice. Take notice that you had 1 juggernaut spawn. Not a constant stream of them like with the bursa.

4 hours ago, (PS4)El__Lobo_Loco said:

It would come off very snobbish to say your first mistake was playing Sorties in the first place

True. If you have all those event weapons already.... :-) I don't and they are mocking me. :-)

3 hours ago, Rorgal_Sina said:

1

 However, if you dodge enemy x, then enemy x will be temporarily stunned, allowing you to deal massive damage to a certain weakspot.

2

Eximus that freezes you. They have more health, higher levels, and a freezing aura. You engage them the exact same way you engage other enemies, but you're a little more disadvantaged. You're completely reliant on rng to hope that you don't happen to get hit by too many bullets while doing so. Of course, you can keep a distance, so why not specialize the enemy even more. Will it be a long distance or short distance fighter? As of now, it's simply an all-rounder that's just better than other enemies.

Not sure how to quote 2 places in the post so had to resort to place numbers, hope you'll forgive me.

1 - Like scorpions are locked in animation with their had outstretched after you dodge their grappling hook? I don't think it's reasonable to get some kind of adverse effect if you miss with your attack. Beyond the overstep when melee.

2 - And then comes arctic nullifire. You have to have some serous damage output to deal with it in raged combat. And by the time you pop his snow globe, his null field is regenerating.

And if you go melee, you are slowed down. And yet, they are still not a third as annoying as bursa...

3 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Get Tigris, run behind them, one shot them.

Easy enough.

Inb4 marketplace mr4 weapon is too hard to get.

How kind of you. So players are supposed to use only a handful of weapons now? Go tigris or o home? Nice...

3 hours ago, CaterHowlett16 said:

I tried to sympathize with you, I really did, but you sir, are a wimp.

I sense the opportunity to have a constructive and intellectual discussion with you, sir. Your awe inspiring tact an intelligent arguments compel me to agree with you wholeheartedly. (That was sarcasm i case you did not notice)

3 hours ago, Me.Greedy said:

in the end Sorties are designed for 4 tenno. just like raids are designed for 8 players. you can solo Sorties, but why do that when you can have help and make it feel balanced instead of feeling overwhelmed? 

LOR can be done in a group of 4 using meta setup.

I looked at the sorties that day and thought: survival will be troublesome. Maybe I should go public for that. Or try to naramon valkyr it as usual.

I never expected the infinite spawn of bursa.

I know for a fact it it a bug. I did missions where bursa started spawning after the alarms went off, and stopped after I shut them down. Problem is, this bug happens a lot, it happens for quite some time. But was it addressed in the latest hotfix? No, it was not.

1 hour ago, YasaiTsume said:

Pretty much why I felt like OP was trying to hint hint that he was a veteran player, and I wonder how a veteran player could have problem with Bursas.
 

  Hide contents

I guess when all yu do is kill Grineer on Draco, when yu actually meet something that isn't Grineer, shyt gets real.

Real real quick.

 

 

How nice of you to assume that all I do is Draco...

And that I have a problem with bursa

I did level a few things on Draco. But much more on ODD while being an Trinity when farming for that Ember prime blueprint before it got vaulted. That was rather fun. Frustrating. But I like to watch fire burning so I did not complain too much.

When I went Ember there then I used nothing but the fireblast. That was even more fun. :-)

I have about equal kill count on all the major factions that's about 180k each.

Do I consider myself a veteran player? No I don't.

Did I have much problems with bursa? No. What I had problems with is them spawning constantly. Regardless of if the alarms were on or off. Why is it so hard to read what I say? Is my English really that bad or do people just like to skip the text and jump to conclusions?

Edited February 26, 2016 by Flirk2

[Eredoc]

9 hours ago, carnaga said:

For me bursas aren't the problem with exterminate missions. This is the problem:

http://i.imgur.com/ckg9cwb.jpg

And I hate it. I hate to be lied to. If there is 136 enemies on the map don't put 115 enemies on my screen! If the counter says I need to kill 400 enemies I kill them, but don't lie!

I feel you failed to realise what @MumblesMcphatty was actually saying - A mission will spawn 115 enemies at the start, however if a Tech corpus spawns a Shield osprey, then it increases the counter because it's a new enemy that it couldn't account for because it's  possible to kill a corpus tech before the shield osprey is spawned, Similarly, the corpus map spawns enemies based on how you play through Moa closets and it's possible to complete the mission without ever having spawned one, as such it would be pointless to mark them on he list to kill as you never would if you didn't set off the alarms

 

In regards to feeling sorry for new players, I got into this game through a friend who insisted on helping me, at the time he was MR9 and it was so boring, there was no risk of him dying so there was no risk of me dying at all. I cannot confirm nor deny the Bursa spawning but it's not a bad thing it if they do spawn as it offers challenge and also makes new players aware that not everything can be assaulted head on.

[YasaiTsume]

Then OP should very well know MR means nothing to skill level and trying to use it as a leverage to show how much content yu experienced is akin to saying "look I have high MR, so I know what I'm talking about" 

Well I do agree Exterminate should not have additional spawns, yur direct bias to Bursas (and Corpus) make me think yu have problems with them. 

[ClinkzEastwood]

8 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

How kind of you. So players are supposed to use only a handful of weapons now? Go tigris or o home? Nice...

Or Hek

Or Sobek

Or Penta

Or Tonkor

Or Drakgoon

Or Valkyr with any melee weapon

Or Excalibur with any melee weapon

Edited February 26, 2016 by ClinkzEastwood

[-CdG-Zilchy]

Ok good of you to respond to so many. Look honestly If rather 10 Bursa's than a lvl 80+ Juggernaut, they can be a nightmare to put down. I think you missed what I was saying about Air Support though. It works even without consoles to hack, it locks down the alarms so that not only do you not have to hack a console to turn off the alarm, the alarm will no longer activate in that area. Try it and see, it will stop the constant spawns. Regarding Serration on Lua, I've seen it stop many times, always as a round 4 reward, I used to farm there a lot for Neurodes. 

[felixsylvaris]

9 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

And you suddenly can't ignore it. Because there is a bright gold convergence way-point on your screen. Hence the no-lens approach I took.

I can. :-)

Sure sometimes the gold thing pops up. Sometimes it is 400f sometimes 40f. And sometimes i can level school up while just doing my things.

There is several things which could be ignored, like mobs, all crates, killcount. And focus is just another thing.

[carnaga]

7 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

Thank you for support But there seem to be a misunderstanding. I did moved from the exterminations to other mission types when I got the gear and some button pushing skills to enjoy those.

The endless extermination on which you eventually come to the point where there is nothng but bursa left and those keep spawning I am not in love with. :-)

Sorry for misunderstanding. But those endless extermination missions where bursas keep spawning is a bug. You should report it. I bumped in-to one on brokk hammer skin alert. They kept coming and there was nothing to do but abort the mission and re-do it.

Lately I've been farming morning yellow pigments from osprays on Tier 3 corpus missions and I'm deliberately triggering the alarms. On exterminate missions it's sometimes a pain cause to trigger alarm you need a Crewman to push the button. Nowdays on normal mission it's kinda rare to bump in-to large amount of bursas. I usually get 4-6 before the mission ends.

7 hours ago, Eredoc said:

A mission will spawn 115 enemies at the start, however if a Tech corpus spawns a Shield osprey, then it increases the counter because it's a new enemy that it couldn't account for because it's  possible to kill a corpus tech before the shield osprey is spawned, Similarly, the corpus map spawns enemies based on how you play through Moa closets and it's possible to complete the mission without ever having spawned one, as such it would be pointless to mark them on he list to kill as you never would if you didn't set off the alarms

-snip-

I think this is similar thing as with "Acheron Exterminate 31 - 33 Corpus Ship" mission. Enemies in there are not lvl 31-33 but lvl 31-40. The problem I'm having with extra spawning enemies is that they spawn far away way behind you - depending of the tileset of course. So many times I find myself traveling back and forth with elevator. It's not like you see a corpus tech and he pops an osprey from his backpack in front of you. Then there are these bursas who break the game flow: you need to wait and let them die conclusively before you can continue the mission. I upload a video where you can clearly see this.

I play with PC and a gamepad but I use mouse with Corpus Hack Consoles: The directional indicator with a gamepad on a hack panel is too thin for my tastes so I'm better off doing those on mouse. On Tier 3 exterminate missions I rarely use CC (Crowd Control) abilities. I let the sentinel do that (sweeper with radiation).

And from the video you see a stuck kill counter (a screenshot in spoilers)

Spoiler

Regarding the counter I killed all enemies 121/121. And no exit. The counter didn't count the last bursa. At this point the counter should be 121/122.

 

 

Edited February 26, 2016 by carnaga
Added a screenshot of stuck counter

[Eredoc]

4 minutes ago, carnaga said:

Sorry for misunderstanding. But those endless extermination missions where bursas keep spawning is a bug. You should report it. I bumped in-to one on brokk hammer skin alert. They kept coming and there was nothing to do but abort the mission and re-do it.

As Far as I'm led to believe with the Tac Alert that happened with the Razor Back, Bursas will spawn as long as Alarms are raised, I'm not saying that it's fine but I just hope to explain why they were "Endlessly Spawning", really a cap should be looked at

 

6 minutes ago, carnaga said:

I think this is similar thing as with "Acheron Exterminate 31 - 33 Corpus Ship" mission. Enemies in there are not lvl 31-33 but lvl 31-40. The problem I'm having with extra spawning enemies is that they spawn far away way behind you - depending of the tileset of course. So many times I find myself traveling back and forth with elevator. It's not like you see a corpus tech and he pops an osprey from his backpack in front of you. Then there are these bursas who break the game flow: you need to wait and let them die conclusively before you can continue the mission. I upload a video where you can clearly see this.

This is a Bug and  DE are actively squashing said bug as it's not just with Bursas, it can happen with any enemy faction, I can't remember what was said however during one of the devstreams I believe steve said that the bug has been squashed or is being looked into.

[Himodor]

Well, considering I've been playing this a week I guess I'm qualified to chime in!

I first encountered a bursa on Jupiter I think, in a Sabotage mission that I was trying to find the exit from (yeah I get lost a lot). Then I found that I couldn't even scratch it so I chose the noble and super effective strategy of running away from it.

The second time was a defense mission where we were on wave 15 and doing fine when not 1 but 2 of them spawned in. To say they cleaned our clock was an understatement. They were ragdolling us with ease and all 3 of us were completely and pathetically ineffective for 5 odd minutes. I then twigged that they had less armour on the sides and back so I typed into chat "Hit them from the sides and rear". So all 3 of us split up and took them from different directions and, after literally using up every bit of ammo I had including my secondary pistol, we actually managed to kill them. I was in a Volt for the record.

The problem is, of course, that you cant split up when you are solo. :) And I still dont know if what we did was correct or optimal but it got us through the mission.

But yeah expecting totally new players to be able to deal with a Bursa because we should know how by osmosis, and we of course have perfectly modded Frames for our level because osmosis is fantastic, is hilariously elitist. Even if you take an unmodded frame you are still using your year or 2 of experience in the test. Plus I'm in my 40s. Reflexes eroding away yo :)

Anyway, I think a simple way for DE to deal with the issue of spawning enemies driving up the counter is simply to have the counter remain the same as when you start the mission. So when you reach the mission goal you can extract even if there are enemies left on the map.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Himodor

[YasaiTsume]

18 minutes ago, Himodor said:

Well, considering I've been playing this a week I guess I'm qualified to chime in!

I first encountered a bursa on Jupiter I think, in a Sabotage mission that I was trying to find the exit from (yeah I get lost a lot). Then I found that I couldn't even scratch it so I chose the noble and super effective strategy of running away from it.

The second time was a defense mission where we were on wave 15 and doing fine when not 1 but 2 of them spawned in. To say they cleaned our clock was an understatement. They were ragdolling us with ease and all 3 of us were completely and pathetically ineffective for 5 odd minutes. I then twigged that they had less armour on the sides and back so I typed into chat "Hit them from the sides and rear". So all 3 of us split up and took them from different directions and, after literally using up every bit of ammo I had including my secondary pistol, we actually managed to kill them. I was in a Volt for the record.

The problem is, of course, that you cant split up when you are solo. :) And I still dont know if what we did was correct or optimal but it got us through the mission.

But yeah expecting totally new players to be able to deal with a Bursa because we should know how by osmosis, and we of course have perfectly modded Frames for our level because osmosis is fantastic, is hilariously elitist. Even if you take an unmodded frame you are still using your year or 2 of experience in the test. Plus I'm in my 40s. Reflexes eroding away yo :)

Anyway, I think a simple way for DE to deal with the issue of spawning enemies driving up the counter is simply to have the counter remain the same as when you start the mission. So when you reach the mission goal you can extract even if there are enemies left on the map.

I feel yur issue is that Bursas are spawning in low level territory.

IMO, get rid of Sapping Ospreys from low level territory too. It's just murder.

And yes, stop the counter from increasing, it will mess with people during exterminates.

[Himodor]

Sapping Ospreys... MENTION NOT THEIR NAME THRICE!!! *sobs*

[RagingGrizzly]

17 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

You are aware of the fact you are suggesting someone who goes through the Jupiter for the first time to get a 1) primed secondary that takes 10 orokin cells to even make, 2) maxed hornet strike (256 r5 fusion cores for someone who doesn't have access to Triton and even if he did have the access does not have the gear to survive there)?

So you're saying this on the basis that you have no friends to help you out with anything?

Bursas on jupiter aren't that hard to kill dude..,

Try out the Tigris on them if you want.

[fakeBOSHI]

I've played about 5 or so corpus only missions everyday (mostly high level nodes) since bursa complaints came up to test it for myself.

Can't speak to the exterminate counter issue but I feel like I'm one of the few that actually likes fighting them as part of the normal mix. I finally have a mob that isn't a push over and requires a little more than just pointing a weapon in their general direction. I utilize parkour and shots in the air alot so I have little problem getting behind them or hitting them from the top. I've played with bows, snipers, burst fire rifles, shotguns...everything is effective enough on them.

For the first time, I've had a mob that made me feel like I could lose. In the last 3 yrs, all content was soloable even with conventional non min max builds. When I see 4+ bursas, I smile and get my game face on.

There are enemies in the game that you should fear. More so when there are large numbers of them. If you can't deal with them solo, it's time to play coop. It is ok to fail. Games are supposed to allow u to win and lose. 

New players shouldnt expect that everything is the game is a stomp fest or that you can just throw bullets and powers everywhere until the universe implodes. As a new player their first task is to familiarize themselves with the game. To learn from vets. To read on wiki and understand how to play. 

[Himodor]

28 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

So you're saying this on the basis that you have no friends to help you out with anything?

Bursas on jupiter aren't that hard to kill dude..,

Try out the Tigris on them if you want.

Because a mastery level 4 weapon should be the obvious answer to noobs running into this...

And 2 bursas on Jupiter WERE pretty bloody hard to kill for me and my 2 fellow noobs, because we didn't min maxed setups dreamed up by Tibetan mystics who sip pure testosterone and which are...

7 minutes ago, fakeBOSHI said:

As a new player their first task is to familiarize themselves with the game. To learn from vets. To read on wiki and understand how to play. 

.. only shared with the Elite among men. Which we must worship and adore for the wisdom they dripfeed to the masses. Its called Trickle On Gameplay.

I guess the phrase "grow the hell up" is appropriate.

Dude, when something is broken and badly designed, pointing out that it is broken and badly designed is not whining. "L2play noob" is not an answer. I'm well aware that there are challenges in the game that are beyond me, but when one unit is WAY out of whack with everything else you see then pointing it out is right and prudent. And I bet if you didn't have your "Mjolnir PRIME as I got to be a superior vet before any of this showed up" suit you would be screaming your head off. There is challenging and then there is frustrating and the 2 are not the same.

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 hours ago, Himodor said:

low level new player Bursa story

See? A new player had the initiative to think and try a different approach, and found success.

 

I'm not going to say the Bursas are the epitome of fairness. When you get three or more together and you have no way of stopping them using knockdowns, your only bet is range and patience chipping away at the partially-vulnerable exposed part at the front. But there's your proof that they're not the complete blockades to player progression people are making them out to be.

Turning speed could be dialed back a bit (same with the Shield Dargyn archwing enemies, come to think of it) and the knockdown spam is a bit ridiculous if you get stuck with a group of them. Otherwise they're tough, but manageable.

 

Good on you, Himodor. Volt's not an easy frame to handle them with - Overload only stops them briefly, and your other options are sitting back with Electric Shield or going full ham with Speed and melee (assuming your weapon takes priority in its swings over a knockdown) to brute force it.

Going deep into a defense solo can practically require specialised loadouts or at the very least to be overgeared, so you can handle the threats from all sides without losing the pod to chip damage. That's why you can exit at 5 waves, though. You'd be expected to be in a party or to know what you're getting yourself in for if you're pushing for B and C rotation rewards.

9 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

Did you read the post, I wonder? I'm going to quote your post here in all it's glory just for the shear irrelevance of the major points.

Level 10 bursa? Where did I say they were level 10 on Jupiter? They were level 22 on wave 10.

3 bursa? Try infinite spawns. Infinite. As in they keep spawning no matter what you do. On an exterminate mission of all things. Deal with that with any load out.

Yes it was a physical enhancement sortie mission. So? How are endless spawns in an exterminate mission fine?

And the going through star chart is easy comment... When did you go through it? If before the bursa got added to Venus of all things, then I"m sorry, but your opinion is outdated and irrelevant.

I was looking more at Venus when I mentioned level 10. Still, wave 10 isn't necessary for progress - and like I said above, soloing a Defense past 'progression' puts the burden of do you understand the risk right there in the "Extract | Battle" prompt. Any single ally, even a public random player, makes a Bursa easier to deal with by far thanks to being able to flank it. Oh, and about those level 22s at wave 10.

 

I fought three Bursa units at once, with deliberate loadout gimping. Them being spread out a bit wouldn't be a problem, nor would using a reasonably powerful weapon. I mean, your issue happened in a sortie - and while it may have bugged somewhat, the ease with which your loadout should be able to pick off any number of Bursa pretty much as they spawned should have allowed you to push through the rest of the 'expected' enemies and get Extraction to be available between a Bursa kill and the next spawning in.

Also, I specifically said that I went through the starchart a while ago if you cared to actually read, instead of making pointless rhetoric questioning me for an answer that was already present. Fact remains that you can beat the star chart with starter weapons. Bursas, Nullifiers, Combas and all. Do you know how much of a faceroll it used to be? I camped Vor on Mercury until I had a level 30 weapon then pretty much did the entire map in sequence. Using a Braton, Lato and Cronus. I barely had any damage mods. No damaged Serration tiding me over until the real one appeared.. God forbid you get a little fun with something that makes you do something other than W+LMB all day.

Edited February 26, 2016 by EDYinnit
added reply to hilarious OP response

[fakeBOSHI]

1 hour ago, Himodor said:

Because a mastery level 4 weapon should be the obvious answer to noobs running into this...

And 2 bursas on Jupiter WERE pretty bloody hard to kill for me and my 2 fellow noobs, because we didn't min maxed setups dreamed up by Tibetan mystics who sip pure testosterone and which are...

.. only shared with the Elite among men. Which we must worship and adore for the wisdom they dripfeed to the masses. Its called Trickle On Gameplay.

I guess the phrase "grow the hell up" is appropriate.

Dude, when something is broken and badly designed, pointing out that it is broken and badly designed is not whining. "L2play noob" is not an answer. I'm well aware that there are challenges in the game that are beyond me, but when one unit is WAY out of whack with everything else you see then pointing it out is right and prudent. And I bet if you didn't have your "Mjolnir PRIME as I got to be a superior vet before any of this showed up" suit you would be screaming your head off. There is challenging and then there is frustrating and the 2 are not the same.

There is no groveling for knowledge about the game. Wiki tells u all the mechanics. If you can't be bothered to learn, then I have nothing for u.

Every enemy that has been introduced has had people saying they are broken only to find that they really aren't or that they needed to play better. If you can't be bothered to try to play in unconventional or more extreme ways, then I have nothing for u.

If vets are elitist because they don't seek out new players to teach them I don't know what u want.

I play with unconventional builds alot. I dont use the strongest weapons or frames unless u think hydroid with a prisma gorgon is op. I use handspring, and aviator alot. No minmax builds use these. I've shown new players how to deal with enemies that appear broken to them in a way they feel confortable. 

Nowhere did I tell anyone that they shouldnt raise concerns. I'm putting the "x is broken" into perspective.

Just to be clear, I am not advocating a position that bursas are perfect nor am I saying they are easy, nor am I saying "git gud". I am saying there are ways to deal with them and that failing (even using up all 4 revives in a given mission) is acceptable. 

Edited February 26, 2016 by fakeBOSHI

[TalonBlue]

A direction would imply that game is going somewhere. You don't go anywhere in a game that is the equivalent of a treadmill or a stationary bike.

[carnaga]

1 hour ago, fakeBOSHI said:

There is no groveling for knowledge about the game. Wiki tells u all the mechanics. If you can't be bothered to learn, then I have nothing for u.

-snip-

Well, wiki doesn't tell that bursas sometimes regenerate health (yellow bar). Also it doesn't tell about hyper ADHD bursas. And it doesn't define that if you get an alert on the tileset, enemy levels gradually get higher and soon you are fighting against lvl 70-100+ enemies and bursas -- on a regular lvl 31-33 exterminate mission. You learn these things from playing :)

Here is screenshot from normal exterminate mission and after waiting a while (Pluto: Acheron - Exterminate 31 - 33 Corpus) -- level began with 115 enemies:

Spoiler

Lvl 70 bursa 149/163

lvl 70 moa 156/172

lvl 82 Eximus 159/173

Lvl 73 Bursa 164/176

I can imagine the wrath when a player who takes his time on an exterminate mission -- ignoring the alert status of the tileset -- bumps in to lvl 80+ monsters :D

But to the good part: you can achieve the "end game" pretty easy with exterminate mission to test your skills and abilities. In my case the mission became endless extermination: you have 45-90 seconds to kill a bursa until the next one spawns. Gradually the killing phase became too slow and I was overwhelmed by them :)=

Edited February 26, 2016 by carnaga
screenshots x4

[RagingGrizzly]

1 hour ago, Himodor said:

Because a mastery level 4 weapon should be the obvious answer to noobs running into this...

By the time you get to Jupiter, you should already be MR4... if you advance to quickly through the star chart and get destroyed that's your fault.

[Flirk2]

I finally got home had dinner and now while I'm not hungry anymore and in no danger of spilling HCl all over the thread, I want to try and play the game again. So I'll try to be brief. Let's see if I'll manage.

11 hours ago, Eredoc said:

I feel you failed to realise what @MumblesMcphatty was actually saying - A mission will spawn 115 enemies at the start, however if a Tech corpus spawns a Shield osprey, then it increases the counter because it's a new enemy that it couldn't account for because it's  possible to kill a corpus tech before the shield osprey is spawned, Similarly, the corpus map spawns enemies based on how you play through Moa closets and it's possible to complete the mission without ever having spawned one, as such it would be pointless to mark them on he list to kill as you never would if you didn't set off the alarms

In regards to feeling sorry for new players, I got into this game through a friend who insisted on helping me, at the time he was MR9 and it was so boring, there was no risk of him dying so there was no risk of me dying at all. I cannot confirm nor deny the Bursa spawning but it's not a bad thing it if they do spawn as it offers challenge and also makes new players aware that not everything can be assaulted head on.

So you did not read any of my posts, or you did not get the "they kept spawning" that I reiterate again and again. I know when the enemy count is increased. I faced a juggernaut while exterminating with a loki. I have done a lot of corpus missions. But, pay attention please, never was there a time when the enemy to kill section was ticking like a freaking Geiger counter.

And the second part of your post was just epic. You were carried by a friend before the bursa happened, and did not feel challenged. So you are fine with increasing the difficulty across the board for those who want to experience the game on their own pace with no one to carry them.  Because logic.

11 hours ago, YasaiTsume said:

Then OP should very well know MR means nothing to skill level and trying to use it as a leverage to show how much content yu experienced is akin to saying "look I have high MR, so I know what I'm talking about" 

Well I do agree Exterminate should not have additional spawns, yur direct bias to Bursas (and Corpus) make me think yu have problems with them. 

You agree? Thank the stars. And no I had problems with them spawning infinitely, and them appearing on low level missions. But not with bursa as a concept. Just their place and spawn mechanic.

11 hours ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

Or Hek

Or Sobek

Or Penta

Or Tonkor

Or Drakgoon

Or Valkyr with any melee weapon

Or Excalibur with any melee weapon

I really don't know what are you talking about. I know how to deal with bursa. But let's see the stats.

Ambulas. The Pluto boss, you know,

Robotic = 2000

proto shield = 300

alloy armor = 200

Denial bursa, that you can encounter on any corpus planet at the moment and not necessary there will be only one in the room

Robotic = 2500

proto shield = 2400

ferrite armor = 350

Sapienti sat.

11 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Ok good of you to respond to so many. Look honestly If rather 10 Bursa's than a lvl 80+ Juggernaut, they can be a nightmare to put down. I think you missed what I was saying about Air Support though. It works even without consoles to hack, it locks down the alarms so that not only do you not have to hack a console to turn off the alarm, the alarm will no longer activate in that area. Try it and see, it will stop the constant spawns. Regarding Serration on Lua, I've seen it stop many times, always as a round 4 reward, I used to farm there a lot for Neurodes. 

You don't get 10 bursa instead of 1 juggernaut. You get infinite amount if bugged or at least 2 if everything's allright. And while we are looking at the stats

Juggernaut

infested 3500

ferrite armor 200

Do you still want 10 bursa instead of 1 juggernaut of the same level? :-)

11 hours ago, felixsylvaris said:

I can. :-)

Sure sometimes the gold thing pops up. Sometimes it is 400f sometimes 40f. And sometimes i can level school up while just doing my things.

There is several things which could be ignored, like mobs, all crates, killcount. And focus is just another thing.

A human being is amazingly adaptive. But why would I need to adapt to something like that in a game?

5 hours ago, carnaga said:

Sorry for misunderstanding. But those endless extermination missions where bursas keep spawning is a bug. You should report it. I bumped in-to one on brokk hammer skin alert. They kept coming and there was nothing to do but abort the mission and re-do it.

It's been a while now. So it was reported a lot, I'm sure.

4 hours ago, Himodor said:

Well, considering I've been playing this a week I guess I'm qualified to chime in!

You are. And your input is most appreciated. I really don't get why there are so many people that seem to have lost memories of their early Warframe days. Some of them got carried and their early days could be quite short. But most did it by themselves.

The fact that the star chart becomes more and more difficult with new enemies introduction baffles me. They need a challenge? Alright. But why are they not advocating new high level nodes or new high level planets then? Why are they defending the obviously overpowered units on the nodes they did not even play for a year in most cases? The missions that are supposed to be challenging to a no mod load out?

4 hours ago, YasaiTsume said:

I feel yur issue is that Bursas are spawning in low level territory.

IMO, get rid of Sapping Ospreys from low level territory too. It's just murder.

And yes, stop the counter from increasing, it will mess with people during exterminates.

Finally. Yes. Now we agree.

3 hours ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

So you're saying this on the basis that you have no friends to help you out with anything?

Bursas on jupiter aren't that hard to kill dude..,

Try out the Tigris on them if you want.

Of course they are not hard to kill. If you have the weapon and mods. The question is, if you have those, then what are you even doing on Jupiter in the first place and why are you looking for a challenge there?!

3 hours ago, fakeBOSHI said:

 In the last 3 yrs, all content was soloable even with conventional non min max builds. When I see 4+ bursas, I smile and get my game face on.
 

Right. Because you are awesome like that. We got it. Now meditate on the actual reason that you want the missions that you did for the first time when there were no bursa to have them. Because for now it seems like it was all handed to you. You never faced a bursa on Jupiter while you did not have a maxed vitality in your inventory.

2 hours ago, EDYinnit said:

I fought three Bursa units at once, with deliberate loadout gimping.

This one made me laugh so hard....

I do hope I misunderstood. Please tell me that you are not talking about what I see on that screenshot you posted as a deliberately gimped loadout.

Maxed vitality and redirection on a level 30 ember prime, max vitality carrier prime, level 30 vulkar wraith with a syndicate mod on, and whatever else you have as secondary and melee there do not a gimped loadout make.

Even if you don't have anything for melee and secondary there, it's still far from a gimped load out for a 10 wave Jupiter mission. Bursa or no bursa.

 

2 hours ago, TalonBlue said:

A direction would imply that game is going somewhere. You don't go anywhere in a game that is the equivalent of a treadmill or a stationary bike.

It is not standing still that's a fact. You are going somewhere with a game if you up the difficulty on old missions.

1 hour ago, carnaga said:

Well, wiki doesn't tell that bursas sometimes regenerate health (yellow bar). Also it doesn't tell about hyper ADHD bursas. And it doesn't define that if you get an alert on the tileset, enemy levels gradually get higher and soon you are fighting against lvl 70-100+ enemies and bursas -- on a regular lvl 31-33 exterminate mission. You learn these things from playing :)

Do you know the funny thing? Wiki you can fix. All those things are up to developers. And they seem to like it this way.

1 hour ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

By the time you get to Jupiter, you should already be MR4... if you advance to quickly through the star chart and get destroyed that's your fault.

How nice of you to point that out. Shame you did not get to fight bursa when you were going through Jupiter for the first time.

 

I think I did not miss anyone? Sorry if I have.

Now let's see if I can play this game today.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Flirk2