soooo why does the braton prime have a max ammo pool of 375 again?

[Sonicbullitt]

5 minutes ago, Ognj said:

People did complained when they Buffed braton prime, but they reduced ammo capacity for the "balance sake". We never got a full response as to why and they just ignored it so people stopped asking.

And yes I also use Braton Prime, a LOT.

yeah very strange that it has a lower ammo count even though it's stats are fairly average.

[Freelancer27]

Knowingly from its history, I do believe Braton Prime's ammo was nerfed due to the instant outrage of automatic weapons such as Soma Prime becoming a powerhouse weapon that people use quite frequently.

Right now, Braton Prime is just a rusty piece that left ignored with much more powerful weapons overshadowing it.

[Sonicbullitt]

2 minutes ago, Freelancer27 said:

Knowingly from its history, I do believe Braton Prime's ammo was nerfed due to the instant outrage of automatic weapons such as Soma Prime becoming a powerhouse weapon that people use quite frequently.

Right now, Braton Prime is just a rusty piece that left ignored with much more powerful weapons overshadowing it.

I see, still makes no sense though, if you have one powerful weapon wouldn't want something that came at least close in terms of damage , so you have greater choice in weapons ? Also if this was nerfed because of such reasoning why weren't high power rifles like the soma nerfed ? This logic is &#! backwards.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[Freelancer27]

Just now, Sonicbullitt said:

I see, still makes no sense if you have one powerful weapon wouldn't want something that came at least close in terms of damage , so you have greater choice in weapons ? Also if this was nerfed because of such reasoning why weren't high power rifles like the soma nerfed ? This logic is &#! backwards.

You may not get it right now, since new weapons have already been rolled in.

Before Shotguns even got buffed to mainstream, Soma Prime's argument is completely exaggerated; having both sides asking for nerfs and buffs non-stop.

[Sonicbullitt]

6 minutes ago, Freelancer27 said:

You may not get it right now, since new weapons have already been rolled in.

Before Shotguns even got buffed to mainstream, Soma Prime's argument is completely exaggerated; having both sides asking for nerfs and buffs non-stop.

Soma's ammo pool and mag size was fine as is, I really didn't understand the huge buff to the prime , throws even more of the weapon balance outta wack, but yes I most certainly don't understand why ammo cap was nerfed. That is all the reason why that old reasoning is invalid since we have so much powerful primaries now. This further proves my my point on why the Baton prime's low ammo count right now makes absolutely no sense in the game's current meta.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[Freelancer27]

1 minute ago, Sonicbullitt said:

Soma's ammo pool and mag size was fine as is, I really didn't understand the huge buff to the prime , throws even more of the weapon balance outta wack, but yes I most certainly don't understand why ammo cap was nerfed. That is all the reason why that old reasoning is invalid since we have so much powerful primaries now. This further proves my my point on why the Baton prime's low ammo count right now make absolutely no sense in the game's current meta.

Knowing how Boltor does more damage and has more ammo capacity than Braton. It does raise a lot of eyebrows.

[Sonicbullitt]

Just now, Freelancer27 said:

Knowing how Boltor does more damage and has more ammo capacity than Braton. It does raise a lot of eyebrows.

I know right ? It's damage isn't spectacular nor does it have something exceedingly unique about it either, boggles the mind.

[CS0310]

1 hour ago, Kthal said:

The Braton Prime was given a massive buff, increasing damage. status chance, fire rate, and magazine capacity significantly. To offset this, DE dropped the ammo capacity.

they buffed it from "literally trash" to "okay" but had to make a tradeoff for that while the boltor is still left untouched ever since its introduction?

[Sonicbullitt]

1 minute ago, SFTT.Lightning said:

they buffed it from "literally trash" to "okay" but had to make a tradeoff for that while the boltor is still left untouched ever since its introduction?

soma and a bunch of others too lol, their "balance" choice makes no sense whatsoever. It doesn't have particularly high dps like those weapons.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[ScorpDK]

Pretty sure it's more of an oversight than anything else. It's noteworthy that the balance passes on weapons doesn't happen on their own all that often. It's mostly happening when people start an outcry for them either being too bloody weak or too freaking powerful. Such as was the case for the Spira Prime. If you highlight the problem with BratonP's ammo capacity in comparison to other rifles in its category, potentially they will buff it to be in-line with the rest.

[Sonicbullitt]

15 minutes ago, ScorpDK said:

Pretty sure it's more of an oversight than anything else. It's noteworthy that the balance passes on weapons doesn't happen on their own all that often. It's mostly happening when people start an outcry for them either being too bloody weak or too freaking powerful. Such as was the case for the Spira Prime. If you highlight the problem with BratonP's ammo capacity in comparison to other rifles in its category, potentially they will buff it to be in-line with the rest.

Pretty much , I really wish they had a dedicated pve weapon balance team just like they have for pvp. Because it really takes them too long to look at weapons and tweak them. The reason I made this post is to do just that, try to get the devs attention because this is just a small issue that could be fixed with a simple number tweak, that could easily be implemented in a hotfix. The fact that mere max ammo pool of a weapon can cause such a stir shows you how many issues current weapon balance has.

This is why I feel we really need a dedicated team for pve weapon balance, since the devs are busy with much bigger issues such as damage 3.0 which involves reworking the whole mod system entirely, a huge undertaking among many other things that require higher priority. Scott is only one man and there are many , many weapons and warframes in game to balance. We could also do with some kind of alpha playtest server to test things before they release, so we don't get overpowered crap that wrecks the balance of the game. Sort of like BF4's cte or d3s playtest servers.

DE has milions of testers right here they need to use them. The players also spend much more time playing the game and find problems much faster than they can with a few QA testers. They have the design council at their disposal too, yet they hardly make use of them, something I cannot understand.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[Pacmega9999]

33 minutes ago, SFTT.Lightning said:

they buffed it from "literally trash" to "okay" but had to make a tradeoff for that while the boltor is still left untouched ever since its introduction?

They buffed most of its stats but then decided as a tradeoff for buffing it to "okay" they had to reduce max ammo... Which I don't think ever made any sense to begin with since the Boltor Prime (I pray that thing never comes out of the vault) has always been stronger than the Braton Prime yet doesn't have the same ammo limitation.

[(PSN)ShiroPhyla]

Because it's not the durpy Boltor prime

[Lost_Cartographer]

The Braton Prime was buffed because people wanted that weapon to be a good Prime weapon, not the best, just GOOD.  As in, at least better than the Hind/Karak (because it was about dead even with those two before its buff.)  They got it, but also around this time was an outcry about weapon balance.  So naturally, DE buffed the Braton Prime but hurt its ammo pool.

In typical DE fashion, they ADHDed the effort of balancing weapons and simply "balanced" the Braton Prime, leaving the two actual problem weapons people felt were out of whack untouched.

About par for the course.  I still only play because the Braton Prime gores the bad guys, which is satisfying as hell.  Beyond that, I'm not totally impressed, and feel like DOOM will give me a reason to leave until DE gets their act together.  I'm not holding my breath for mod/damage 3.0, or Archwing, or Sabotage 2.0, or anything really.  Their track record is that bad in my eyes.

[Sonicbullitt]

17 minutes ago, Pacmega9999 said:

They buffed most of its stats but then decided as a tradeoff for buffing it to "okay" they had to reduce max ammo... Which I don't think ever made any sense to begin with since the Boltor Prime (I pray that thing never comes out of the vault) has always been stronger than the Braton Prime yet doesn't have the same ammo limitation.

Ikr ? Their reasoning behind their "balancing" of the weapon makes no sense, yet they didn't actually "balance" the problematic weapons. They either over buff or over nerf weapons, I wish we could have a happy middle. The same thing happend to the boar prime they nerfed its status and fire rate because they buffed the damage, when it wasn't even close to being one of the stronger shotguns, it was more of a nerf to the shotgun than anything, same thing happend to Saryn.

14 minutes ago, Littleman88 said:

The Braton Prime was buffed because people wanted that weapon to be a good Prime weapon, not the best, just GOOD.  As in, at least better than the Hind/Karak (because it was about dead even with those two before its buff.)  They got it, but also around this time was an outcry about weapon balance.  So naturally, DE buffed the Braton Prime but hurt its ammo pool.

In typical DE fashion, they ADHDed the effort of balancing weapons and simply "balanced" the Braton Prime, leaving the two actual problem weapons people felt were out of whack untouched.

About par for the course.  I still only play because the Braton Prime gores the bad guys, which is satisfying as hell.  Beyond that, I'm not totally impressed, and feel like DOOM will give me a reason to leave until DE gets their act together.  I'm not holding my breath for mod/damage 3.0, or Archwing, or Sabotage 2.0, or anything really.  Their track record is that bad in my eyes.

I feel you man , I am a huge cynic myself sometimes, damage 3.0 is going to be huge undertaking they have to rework the entire mod system if they want a true fix and not just have another mod replace the current mandatory mods. The pressure is on indeed , if they mess up there is going to be huge backlash for sure.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sonicbullitt
spelling error

[Pacmega9999]

1 minute ago, Sonicbullitt said:

I feel you man , I am a huge cynic myself sometimes, damage 3.0 is going to be huge undertaking they have to rework the entire mod system if they want a true fix and not just have another mod replace they current mandatory mods. The pressure is on indeed , if they mess up there is going to be huge backlash for sure.

Yep, damage 3.0 is going to be big. If they make core mods obsolete there is going to be a backlash because of all the wasted cores, if they move away from mods completely I wonder what they are going to do. It definitely sounds interesting but if they mess up everything is going to explode... Forums, Youtube, Twitter, Ingame chat, everything.

We know they have the potential to produce great things sometimes, I guess we'll just have to pray they do the same thing with this.

[hukurokuju5]

same as boar prime, having a low ammo pool.....

DE needs to take a damn math class

[Sonicbullitt]

Just now, Pacmega9999 said:

Yep, damage 3.0 is going to be big. If they make core mods obsolete there is going to be a backlash because of all the wasted cores, if they move away from mods completely I wonder what they are going to do. It definitely sounds interesting but if they mess up everything is going to explode... Forums, Youtube, Twitter, Ingame chat, everything.

We know they have the potential to produce great things sometimes, I guess we'll just have to pray they do the same thing with this.

This change cannot be rushed , it has to be multiple updates before we get the change, they have to rework many many things since so much was reliant on the mod system. Players need to be compensated indeed, we put time , effort and money into those mods. They would have to rework prime mods and rebalance all the weapons too, man the more I think about the more insane this change sounds. They are basically shaking the core of the entire game.

[Lost_Cartographer]

14 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

Ikr ? Their reasoning behind their "balancing" of the weapon makes no sense, yet they didn't actually "balance" the problematic weapons. They either over buff or over nerf weapons, I wish we could have a happy middle. The same thing happend to the boar prime they nerfed its status and fire rate because they buffed the damage, when it wasn't even close to being one of the stronger shotguns, it was more of a nerf to the shotgun than anything, same thing happend to Saryn.

I feel you man , I am a huge cynic myself sometimes, damage 3.0 is going to be huge undertaking they have to rework the entire mod system if they want a true fix and not just have another mod replace the current mandatory mods. The pressure is on indeed , if they mess up there is going to be huge backlash for sure.

The only mods they need to remove/fix are the pure damage mods (serration, hornet strike, point blank and pressure point) and adjust multi shot to not always be a go to mod.  2 bullets out = 2 bullets spent isn't the right way to do it (that essentially amounts to a fire rate mod,) but looking at Archwing's small +30% chance to fire an additional free shot might be a proper way to balance multi-shot - a gamble, not a guarantee.  Alternatively, multi shot always fires an extra round but there's a chance to not cost that extra round.

Otherwise, the rest of the mods are more issues with utility mods being overall completely underwhelming to the point where they don't really do anything for a weapon while elemental damage mods improve weapons by leaps and bounds, because EVERYTHING is percentile based.  The former needs toned up, and the latter toned down.

Then enemy scaling needs compressed, so we're not looking at Heavy Gunners being 300x tougher than their Elite Lancer counterparts by level 40, but more like the Elite takes 3-4 rounds, the rarer Heavy Gunner takes around 15-20.  I shouldn't be able to one shot common fodder while dumping entire magazines into the heavy units.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Littleman88

[Pacmega9999]

4 minutes ago, Sonicbullitt said:

This change cannot be rushed , it has to be multiple updates before we get the change, they have to rework many many things since so much was reliant on the mod system. Players need to be compensated indeed, we put time , effort and money into those mods. They would have to rework prime mods and rebalance all the weapons too, man the more I think about the more insane this change sounds. They are basically shaking the core of the entire game.

I hadn't thought of splitting it into multiple updates yet but that does sound like a very good idea. There are so, so many things they have to revisit to avoid unintentional breaking of systems. Modding is one of the core things in the game and changing something there will affect everything.

I kind of wonder what Baro will sell if some of the primed mods were to be removed. Probably more cosmetics, that's pretty much the only persistant thing he has remaining if that happens, together with Prisma gear. But please don't spam those DE, they are special now like Primes once were and I would like it to stay that way tbh.

[Sonicbullitt]

10 minutes ago, hukurokuju5 said:

same as boar prime, having a low ammo pool.....

DE needs to take a damn math class

you see the problem isn't that simple , you remove those mods and others will take their place and become "mandatory"  That said I want to stay on topic damage 3.0 is a topic for another day and another post. 

Edited February 27, 2016 by Sonicbullitt

[Pacmega9999]

1 minute ago, Sonicbullitt said:

you see the problem isn't that simple , you remove those mods and others will take their place and become "mandatory" . That said I want to stay on topic damage 3.0 is a topic for another day and another post. 

Oh right, the original topic... :P

[Sonicbullitt]

Just now, Pacmega9999 said:

Oh right, the original topic... :P

yeah xD, this was about a simple number tweak to a weapons ammo pool lol

3 minutes ago, Pacmega9999 said:

I hadn't thought of splitting it into multiple updates yet but that does sound like a very good idea. There are so, so many things they have to revisit to avoid unintentional breaking of systems. Modding is one of the core things in the game and changing something there will affect everything.

I kind of wonder what Baro will sell if some of the primed mods were to be removed. Probably more cosmetics, that's pretty much the only persistant thing he has remaining if that happens, together with Prisma gear. But please don't spam those DE, they are special now like Primes once were and I would like it to stay that way tbh.

I meant that the changes would only come after we have had multiple updates since it is such a big change , but yes incremental patches could be a good idea since even damage 2.0 had to get tweaks after release , so it is more like damage 2.1 tbh.

[Weidro]

souds like a bug to me but since braton prime isnt popular enough it will prolly never be fixed

[Sonicbullitt]

16 minutes ago, Weidro said:

souds like a bug to me but since braton prime isnt popular enough it will prolly never be fixed

that is why we gotta make some noise man, let our voices be heard.