Is there Counter-Play to Shock Eximus?

[-Temp0-]

Yeah right only it's 40% chance and there's also that thing... not all players do dem raids, especially every day. Since you know. It's a real end-game stuff.

[Saraphic]

Hey there's already a topic on this!  

The current behavior is cheap and impossible to avoid simply because you get blind sided by it before you have any chance to react.  I'm OK with it happening if this type of enemy happens to hit you, but the reality of an aura in crowded Corpus maps crawling with nullifiers is an instant death sentence above level 60, mostly due to vision issues preventing you from seeing these enemies, then vision issues after you're hit by the 100-0 shock and trying to run away.

This also COMPLETELY neuters melee builds, which, after Shadow Debt, I thought we were trying to encourage a bit more. 

Did anyone have fun in the Melee Only sortie with these guys yesterday? we sure did!!!! not....

Difficulty should not come from cheap, unavoidable 1 shot mechanics with too many different effects associated.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Saraphic

[Gurpgork]

2 minutes ago, Meneliki said:

There's an arcane. I forget the name, but it gives you a chance to resist magnetic proc.

Arcane Nullifier.

That can only go up to 40%, if you get ten of them. And even if it was 100%, that isn't something we can call a reliable way to counterplay these things, because of how atrocious basically everything about LoR is, especially the reward tables.

[-Temp0-]

Quote

Did anyone have fun in the Melee Only sortie with these guys yesterday? we sure did!!!! not....

It was ok with the cheap cheese - mag, ash + naramon rhino to pick up ash and mag from the floor sometimes. Cheapest in the universe. Tho again, I think it wasn't lvl 100 thats' why.

[Saraphic]

4 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

It was ok with the cheap cheese - mag, ash + naramon rhino to pick up ash and mag from the floor sometimes. Cheapest in the universe. Tho again, I think it wasn't lvl 100 thats' why.

Some of that MLG cheese.  This was my clans challenge run, so we were playing non-cheese random frames.  Still did it but the shock exmius really punished us.

[-Temp0-]

Well I just kinda joined the random team and there happened to be ash and mag (forgot which frame the fourth person used... loki maybe). And since I didn't feel like testing my luck I used cheesy rhino. At least I got dem lens that day, so i guess kinda worth it.

[ADirtyMonk]

Nope. Either you play at low enemy levels levels or at extremely low enemy densities where you are a walking god regardless, or you get #*($%%@. The new shock eximi, like magnetic procs, broken lights, nullifiers, comba/scrambus, parasitic eximi, and bursa scaling can get stuffed right back up the butt of whoever designed them.

[ScorpDK]

One thing that screenshot highlights, is the fact the Eximus units need different overlay effects (or even models), so you can tell them apart at a glimpse, not requiring aiming at each of them separately to see the nameplate.

Edited March 9, 2016 by ScorpDK

[Acos]

On 3/6/2016 at 5:15 PM, Havenless said:

This is really easy when they steal your energy through a wall before you can even see them.

Perhaps they shouldn't get an aura, but rather line of sight. That would make them a little more fair without completely invalidating what they are supposed to do. 

[renleech]

 If i was a new player in need of facing the hyena pack to progress through the starchart... I could just pray to never face a Hyena Th.This type of hyena has magnetic proc too. Nice, isn't it?

Imagine yourself in a sortie with Eximi stronghold difficulty. Who do you need to fear most: energy leech or electric? Such a hard answer...

This type of enemy needs to be tweaked. ASAP. I don't mind energy leech, but the electric aura should give us electric damage, not magnetic procs. Just follow the tooltip could be a huge step to improvement.

Or it could give electric damage alongside a control effect, like a slow or a weapon penalty to rate of fire, reload, etc.

 

Edited March 9, 2016 by renleech

[Inmemoratus]

1 hour ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Wasn't your response that people should "prioritize them" over other Eximus?  Please, by all means, tell me how many of those Eximus on that screen are Energy Leech as opposed to Leech, or Arson, etc.  

Unless you can take the time, amidst all that, to individually move your reticle over each distinct enemy, how would you possibly be able to do the same with Corpus and pick out the Electric Eximus units to prioritize them? 

I have no idea, but this thread is about Shock Eximus. The effect of having the Eximus Stronghold sortie condition is far more devastating with grineer because of the massive range of that aura. If it were Corpus you would probably have a better time avoiding it.

However, I've said multiple times that the aura should be visible on Shock Eximus. So I'm not 100% defending everything about this unit.

[Inmemoratus]

2 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

Sniper rifle only sortie rings a bell? Shotgun users are already punished by nullifiers. Now they don't even have the option to go close quarters on them. They should always bring an automatic secondary. Right. Because diversity. Sure.
Again. Do you think sorties that have shotgun only, sniper rifle only, melee only are meant to be impossible to do?

I do fine against them with semi-auto secondaries. I rarely use automatics. I don't use an auto-fire macro either.

I agree that sniper-only corpus sorties would be horrible. The problem there is the way sorties were designed. Sometimes a sortie is a perfect storm of ridiculous BS. That doesn't mean a certain type of unit is broken.

[Sunfaiz]

3 hours ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

Yes, but its a very broad pigeonhole, where as I was talking about meta-specific pigeonholes such as needing to use Mirage + x weapon. Forcing you to use guns in a shooter shouldn't be frowned upon, especially when you can avoid content where using melee only effectively kills you. If you are dead set on melee only you can bring friends with guns with you on missions and make a point to avoid shock eximus'. The only time you can't do this is on melee sorties...but again those are an example of avoidable content. You can simply skip that day's sortie. The game isn't a melee only game. There is going to be content where going melee only simply gets you killed, because that is not the aim of the game.

I understand the point you're making in which everything that can be used for anything cant be good for the game....wait. No. I don't. You're saying and, Please correct me if i'm wrong, That if i find a weapon that I like, invest heavily in it, and want to use it for anything and everything, I should be able to cause you think it's bad ? Isn't it the whole point of warframe ( and forma ) that we make any weapon you like that may be bad into something really great ?

Yes this isn't a melee only game. But Melee only is a playstyle. The same way gun play is a playstyle, The same way ability spam is a playstyle. Sure you are happy with gun play so it doesn't bother you but X is has a playstyle that's Heavily melee based, Y has a slightly Melee based style. I personally Shoot everything till my clip runs out and then hack at things until the room is clear enough for me to reload. It doesn't have to be melee only.

[Inmemoratus]

3 minutes ago, Sunfaiz said:

I understand the point you're making in which everything that can be used for anything cant be good for the game....wait. No. I don't. You're saying and, Please correct me if i'm wrong, That if i find a weapon that I like, invest heavily in it, and want to use it for anything and everything, I should be able to cause you think it's bad ? Isn't it the whole point of warframe ( and forma ) that we make any weapon you like that may be bad into something really great ?

Yes this isn't a melee only game. But Melee only is a playstyle. The same way gun play is a playstyle, The same way ability spam is a playstyle. Sure you are happy with gun play so it doesn't bother you but X is has a playstyle that's Heavily melee based, Y has a slightly Melee based style. I personally Shoot everything till my clip runs out and then hack at things until the room is clear enough for me to reload. It doesn't have to be melee only.

Melee-only is just as narrow as limiting yourself to one single warframe. This game is meant to be played with a variety of tools, not just one warframe or one weapon.

Even when you focus heavily one one playstyle you're supposed to bring some backup options. That's why we can bring guns and melee weapons at the same time.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[Sunfaiz]

3 hours ago, J1ffyLub3 said:

You are being so ignorant. If DE wants melee only to work they need to reconsider tileset design and what enemies they can introduce are extremely limited. Melee has just happened to work up until recently. Now that the game is becoming bigger its simply becoming apparent that melee only isn't DE's goal

So you're saying they want gunplay to work ? Well then they should scrap every level and make it nice and wide for the snipers too.

 

Melee does work. This enemy is the only evidence to the contrary. Hell look at the new event mods that make end game melee viable. Was it lazy to add in mods rather than straight into the system ? Maybe but they want the system to work. Melee makes this game stand out even more. This could easily be a generic 3rd person shooter with some parkour without it.

[Specific.Zod]

9 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

I do fine against them with semi-auto secondaries. I rarely use automatics. I don't use an auto-fire macro either.

I agree that sniper-only corpus sorties would be horrible. The problem there is the way sorties were designed. Sometimes a sortie is a perfect storm of ridiculous BS. That doesn't mean a certain type of unit is broken.

So you say an unit which will do nothing (no attacking, no touching) to you, but will screw you if you use: shotgun, melee weapons. It is just WOW. Sorties are meant to be hard, unfair challenge, but does it meant to be ridiculous? No. it's does not. Sniper only sortie was meant to be hard, a bit of ridiculous with nulifier shield (damage cap on hit), but that's it.

Other energy leech CAN BE COUNTERED by melee and you can still save a potion of your energy depend on how fast you do it.

This Shock eximus CAN BE KILLED by melee BUT YOU WILL NOT GET ANYTHING OUT OF IT BECAUSE THIS GAME BREAKING AURA. ok?

Everyone nitpick on diversity of weapons, frames, etc yet no one defending this eximus can provide HOW CAN YOU COUNTERED THIS KIND OF UNIT AND ITS (CURRENTLY) PURPOSE WITH MELEE WEAPONS.

I can give you many ways to counter AD, Nulifier, Leech eximus and in the end you can still have energy with melee. But there is none versus Shock Eximus.

Only viable option is Shadowstep, but is it a countered way? no. you still lose all energy. which is LOL.

[CaterHowlett16]

On 3/6/2016 at 7:02 PM, Havenless said:

How do you play around an enemy that steals ALL of your energy with no way to avoid it?

Are we just supposed to accept the fact that we'll never get to use our warframe powers on higher level missions?

Can someone explain to me how this isn't a massive pile of BS? Where's the counter play? Nullifiers now seem like a well designed enemy type when compared to these things.

 

Well it's not like energy leeches are something new. We have sap ancients and leech extremis. Not to say that they don't need to be fixed too.

Edited March 9, 2016 by CaterHowlett16

[Sunfaiz]

1 hour ago, Gurpgork said:

Arcane Nullifier.

That can only go up to 40%, if you get ten of them. And even if it was 100%, that isn't something we can call a reliable way to counterplay these things, because of how atrocious basically everything about LoR is, especially the reward tables.

Yeah that's a joke of a counter.

[ScorpDK]

Ancient Disruptors have probably become less of an issue to power users since it's not guaranteed to proc you with the magnetic effect (tho when it happens, generally after being pulled by their dumb hooks, it is really irritating),  so those shouldn't be counted into this. Leeches are fine if their effect doesn't stack, and you can get out of range in most scenarios by simply bullet jumping upwards and aim-gliding while shooting them. Shock Eximus units, however, don't grant you that ability, since their effect is instant and unavoidable if you didn't see them coming, especially bothersome since it affects you through walls, which is kinda cheaty, too.

[Sunfaiz]

5 minutes ago, CaterHowlett16 said:

Well it's not like energy leeches are something new. We have sap ancients and leech extremis. Not to say that they don't need to be fixed too.

The fact is we have enemies that hurt our energy pools why do we need more of the same ? Why not a viral proc when you get closer ? That way it comes back after a set peroid and you're only vulnerable for a short period of time.

[Sunfaiz]

17 minutes ago, Inmemoratus said:

This game is meant to be played with a variety of tools, not just one warframe or one weapon.

No, its not. This game Allows you to use a variety of tools, however CAN use something you have been and keep using it to be successful.

[Inmemoratus]

2 minutes ago, Sunfaiz said:

No, its not. This game Allows you to use a variety of tools, however CAN use something you have been and keep using it to be successful.

You can still melee a shock eximus, but that just makes everything harder since it drains your energy.

Same as how you could try to do Heiracon with any frame but it'll be a lot harder than if you used Frost or Vauban.

There are countless cases like this. There's always a best tool for the job.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Inmemoratus

[J1ffyLub3]

3 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Except the game hasn't really gotten "bigger."  They've added different mission types, etc, but aside from things like Archwing, the base game hasn't changed.  You still have a Primary, Secondary, and Melee weapon along with Frame abilities.  Please enlighten everyone what, exactly, has changed the game so much that, in your opinion, melee should no longer be viable?

The game hasn't changed that much to warrant making melee unviable. I'm simply pointing out the obvious fact that that choosing to keep melee-only viable has a cost. I already told you the game is changing. New tilesets are being made, as well as new warframes and new weapons to help us overcome certain obstacles. Taking out stamina and implementing parkour 2.0 made it easier to traverse open areas and allowed you to reach all parts of a certain room (where previously some spots were only accessible with frames with mobility abilities). It may seem small, but it effects gameplay beyond "the base game." Little instances of these changes can add up. 

If you choose to support melee-only, any enemies with proximity based effects are going to bring about an uproar. Strictly open tilesets will never be welcome, and even boss mechanics are limited to support people who want to run in with a sword. It's hard to implement puzzles such as that in the spy missions on the moon, i don't know the vaults name but there is one where you need to jump from vertical platforms and shoot the button on the moving death cube. There are consequences, and DE wants to accept those then so be it, that just simply isn't the impression i'm getting from them with the direction of recent changes though

[J1ffyLub3]

2 hours ago, (PS4)horridhal said:

Wasn't your response that people should "prioritize them" over other Eximus?  Please, by all means, tell me how many of those Eximus on that screen are Energy Leech as opposed to Leech, or Arson, etc.  

Unless you can take the time, amidst all that, to individually move your reticle over each distinct enemy, how would you possibly be able to do the same with Corpus and pick out the Electric Eximus units to prioritize them? 

I think the color of their aura is a very telltale sign, i can distinguish between them pretty easily in that picture. They have glowing swirling colors around them for a reason. I already said im personally all for making their visual cues more distinct than that...but all i've heard from you guys is that "I want it gone completely"

[(PSN)JT-Come-Lately]

So... Basically when this arrives on console don't play the game for 1-2 months until this is balanced right?

K, thank you for the forward notice lol. I'll enjoy the game as it is for another couple of weeks until this mess arrives.