Should Valkyr's armor be nerfed?

[EmptyDevil]

2 minutes ago, Demoonic said:

Yes I fully agree her invulnerability is way too strong, it's always has been even when her melee was all clunky and broken.

Yeah, there are a vast number of changes that can make her more Berserker-like and useful without it. When DE changed Trinity's invulnerability, it was a step in the right direction. I was a little salty at first but never complained because i quickly realized cheese is not healthy for a game.

[Littlerift]

6 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

Yeah, there are a vast number of changes that can make her more Berserker-like and useful without it. When DE changed Trinity's invulnerability, it was a step in the right direction. I was a little salty at first but never complained because i quickly realized cheese is not healthy for a game.

 

But there are tonnes of frames with immunity that is cheaper than Valkyr's and doesn't limit them to melee only. Just off the top of my head: Nezha's Warding Halo, Rhino's Iron Skin, Zephyr's Turbulence (sans melee), stealth frames can avoid almost any damage, anyone with Shadow Step can avoid almost any damage, and then there are all the frames that have 95% damage reduction. Immunity or near-immunity is a rather fundamental part of Warframe, due to the fact that in the average mission a Tenno has to kill several hundred enemies.

As for Trinity, what did changing her 100% immunity in favour of 95% immunity really change? She can still heal any of the minor damage that she might suffer, and she can overcharge her own shields to ludicrous levels anyway. An intelligent Trinity player is far more tanky than any Valkyr player can be, and Trinity can ensure she remains almost immune to damage due to EV. So if we're going to use the term 'cheesy' to refer to frames that are impossible to kill lets not pretend that the changes to Trinity made her much less cheesy than she was. Personally, I don't actually have an issue with Trinity at all, but if Valkyr is too tanky then there are a hell of a lot of other frames that also need reworks.

 

And after all of that, once you've removed or reduced the effectiveness of all damage mitigation abilities what are you left with? You don't increase the skill level because most damage mitigation abilities require you to be mobile and active to be at their most effective as it is. All you've really done is ensure that the issue of enemy scaling becomes more apparent, as more and more people become frustrated by deaths from Ballistas and Bombards and hordes of Sapping Ospreys. I simply fail to see what is gained by nerfing Valkyr's invincibilty, or what is being lost currently.

 

Oh, and before someone says that I just want to keep Valkyr in her current state so that I can cheese the game: I don't have Valkyr currently, and I don't particularly want her back; I don't really like melee frames.

[Senoinya]

9 hours ago, AntifaHooligan said:

Wow, really? Way to go off-topic mr. Edgelord. Obligatory anti-feminist comment sucessfuly posted. Moving on.

Anti-Extremist feminist and anti-feminist are not the same thing. Reading is a useful and wonderful thing. I only referenced it because it was the first thing that came to mind when reading this nonsense. Also, lovely of you to focus on a single line in my entire post and ignore the entire rest of it.

As for this guy...

 

3 hours ago, EmptyDevil said:

I didn't bother reading any of what you just typed. Why? Because you clearly didn't read mine. Quit filling my notifications with your nonsense. You got that upset about my opinion and that i won't debate why, so you need to make these laughable posts. Grow up and move on with your life. Try contributing something else to the thread instead of your toxicity and personal vendetta with me.

You didn't bother reading what I typed because you don't want to be wrong. Unfortunately for my own intelligence, I did read what you said. I got upset about your opinion...? When? I said nothing about your opinion one way or the other. There you go again, pretending the only reason anyone is calling you out as ignorant is because of your opinion. But I'll at the very least humor you and actually comment about your opinion: I don't care about your opinion. In fact, I actually agree with you that Valkyr's near-permanent immortality is pretty stupid because immortality at all in and of itself just shouldn't be a thing in a game where you're supposed to be offered a challenge. Why would an opinion that I agree with upset me?

My post wasn't directed at your opinion that I agree with about Valkyr, my post was directed at your ignorant way of expressing your opinion. I don't think you even realize the critical flaw here, which is the fact that your "I'm a victim" act is so obnoxious that even someone who agrees with you will still dislike what you have to say simply because of how you choose to say it.

 

That said, on the actual topic:

Nerfing or buffing Valkyr is a sensitive and complicated subject that has never come to a resolution because every topic for it tends to focus on only one thing about her, and that's her Hysteria, as though it's the only relevant thing to do with Valkyr. This topic in particular focuses on changing her main statistics, which helps absolutely nothing and only makes things worse because then people will welcome necessary Hysteria changes even less than they already do.

If you want to change Valkyr, you need to focus on every part of Valkyr. Frankly, I both agree and disagree to buffing Valkyr. I don't think Hysteria should be just outright nerfed with a "lol, 'k, that's beaten into the floor. We'll come back sometime next year and fix all the issues with the rest of the abilities actually being underpowered. See ya!" like what happened with Mesa. Valkyr's first, second, and third abilities are all mediocre, with her second being the least mediocre of the three.

Ripline - Purpose...? Hell, we have guns in this game that do basically the exact same thing Ripline does, minus being able to grapple you. But really... Why would I want to grapple myself to something slowly and waste energy in the process when I can already just parkour to wherever I want? Seems useless.

Warcry - Useful, but why is it her 2? It costs 75 energy, which is the cost of most 3s. In fact, you'll spend more energy keeping Warcry up than you will keeping Hysteria up, and ultimately get less out of it. Her augment helps keep Warcry up, but even then it has a problem because once you have Warcry lasting forever, you can't cast it again to actually make use of slowdown and armor reduction it deals to enemies. Oh, what's that? Turns out two of your three allies weren't in the buff zone? Well, despite the fact that Warcry adds more to its timer every time you kill an enemy, it's not going to give your other allies the boost anyway, and unless you stop killing with melee, that won't change!

Paralysis - Don't you just love it when a frame has two abilities worthy of being a 1, but one of the 1-esque abilities is made into a 3? Yeah, I don't either.

Hysteria - Literally the only good ability Valkyr has. The problem? It's compensating for everything the other abilities don't do. It's too good. But until it doesn't have to compensate for the other three, it needs to stay that way. It deals good melee damage, the charge attacks reliably one-shot enemies up until the very, very high levels, you're completely immortal, it's very easy to keep up due to having a fairly low cost for what it does, and on top of that it heals whatever damage you may have taken before you could activate it. But that does rather raise question: Why do we have the ability to heal ourselves with an immortality ability that we never need to exit anyway?

 

So here's my proposed fix:

Ripline - Ditch it, it's useless. Worse, it doesn't even fit into her kit. Make Paralysis her first instead.

Paralysis - Make it her 1 and change it so that you also get a melee damage boost based on the amount of shields depleted.

Enrage (new toggle second ability) - Valkyr leans back and releases a prolonged yell of anger. The scream causes most enemies within range to temporarily cower in fear. When disabled, Valkyr will get a shield, armor, and HP buff based on the duration she kept the yell going for. The shield buff will last until shields are depleted, the armor buff lasts until Valkyr takes an amount of damage equal to the armor buff she received, and the HP buff lasts until she's been reduced to her base health.

Warcry - Change this into a duration-based AoE, where any enemies that remain within range of Valkyr while Warcry is active will be affected by slowdowns and armor reductions, and any allies that remain within range will get the bonuses.

Hysteria - Change this completely. Instead of total immortality, every single hit you take adds to your armor based on the amount of damage taken. This means that in order to become nearly immortal, you're going to need to take a lot of damage to get there, and you'll need to make use of your life steal on the ability if you want to achieve that. However, to prevent it from being a nerf, every time  Valkyr kills an enemy with her Hysteria claws, she gets a temporary bonus multiplier that grows stronger with every kill, starting small, but growing big if you manage to chain a whole bunch of kills. Basically, like the normal melee damage multiplier we have by default, but without needing to get a ridiculous number of hits just for 3.0x. Due to a small duration, you'll need to rapidly kill enemies to keep your maximum damage going.

 

This would change Valkyr from a boring frame with three bad abilities and one ridiculous ability to a fun frame with four good abilities.

Edited March 13, 2016 by Valsako

[LunarTemplar]

-.- no.

more over, no.

 

16 hours ago, Stratego89 said:

"Too much for a berserk"

While it's nice to see someone recognize that she's meant to be a berserker and not a tank for a change- her armor is not even a problem. She'll still be absolutely shredded at any decently high level unless she's really doing some work on those enemies. Her main (but by no means only- I have a thread somewhere explaining all her flaws and how to improve them) issue is the invincibility her hysteria gives her. No skill in this game should allow you to sit there forever and not die- period.

 

have you not played Inaros at all? cause he is virtually unkillable with even a 'meh' load out.

[EmptyDevil]

2 hours ago, Littlerift said:

 

But there are tonnes of frames with immunity that is cheaper than Valkyr's and doesn't limit them to melee only. Just off the top of my head: Nezha's Warding Halo, Rhino's Iron Skin, Zephyr's Turbulence (sans melee), stealth frames can avoid almost any damage, anyone with Shadow Step can avoid almost any damage, and then there are all the frames that have 95% damage reduction. Immunity or near-immunity is a rather fundamental part of Warframe, due to the fact that in the average mission a Tenno has to kill several hundred enemies.

As for Trinity, what did changing her 100% immunity in favour of 95% immunity really change? She can still heal any of the minor damage that she might suffer, and she can overcharge her own shields to ludicrous levels anyway. An intelligent Trinity player is far more tanky than any Valkyr player can be, and Trinity can ensure she remains almost immune to damage due to EV. So if we're going to use the term 'cheesy' to refer to frames that are impossible to kill lets not pretend that the changes to Trinity made her much less cheesy than she was. Personally, I don't actually have an issue with Trinity at all, but if Valkyr is too tanky then there are a hell of a lot of other frames that also need reworks.

 

And after all of that, once you've removed or reduced the effectiveness of all damage mitigation abilities what are you left with? You don't increase the skill level because most damage mitigation abilities require you to be mobile and active to be at their most effective as it is. All you've really done is ensure that the issue of enemy scaling becomes more apparent, as more and more people become frustrated by deaths from Ballistas and Bombards and hordes of Sapping Ospreys. I simply fail to see what is gained by nerfing Valkyr's invincibilty, or what is being lost currently.

 

Oh, and before someone says that I just want to keep Valkyr in her current state so that I can cheese the game: I don't have Valkyr currently, and I don't particularly want her back; I don't really like melee frames.

Looks like i'm going back on my previous statement of not debating this. Let us try to keep this toxicity free.

I want to say stop using "melee only" as a drawback for Hysteria because it's not. Anyone that knows Valkyr well will know it is false because the damage scales very high into late game. Her charge attack while in Hysteria is a 100% instant kill for any finisher-vulnerable enemy you can connect it with - it executes quickly. When modded correctly(not hard to do) you can keep her in a state of total invulnerability + immunity for minutes against everything that isn't a nullifier.

Your examples are poor comparisons to Hysteria's invulnerability for a number of reasons, here is why:

Iron Skin and Warding Halo

- Is a fixed number of hit points.

- Has to be completely removed before reapplying.

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining.

Turbulence

- Redirects some projectiles.

- Is completely vulnerable to melee and AoE(rockets, stomps, ignis, and etc).

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining and procs.

Shatter Shield

- Lowers damage done by bullets.

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining and CC.

Shadow Step

- Is invisibility, not invulnerability and immunity. Don't use them as if they are synonymous with each other. 

- Can still be damage if not careful.

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining, CC, and procs.

Link

- Lowers enemy damage and also reflects CC + procs(only if Trinity is Linked to an enemy).

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining(CC and procs in some cases).

Blessing

- Damage reduction is applied based on the amount of damage healed.

- Requires a specific situation or tactic to maximize damage reduction.

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining, CC, and procs.

Undertow

- Puts player into a state with invulnerability.

- Has severely limited mobility and very weak damage.

- Drain is increased per enemy in the pool.

- Vulnerable to explosions.

Vex Armor

- Boosts armor when shields are damage, boosts damage when health is damage.

- Can still be damaged. 

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy drains, CC, and procs.

Prowl

- Makes the player invisible.

- Cancels when sprinting, sliding, grabbing ledges, bullet jumping, and wall latching.

- Temporarily disables player's invisibility when firing a non-silent weapon. 

- Drains more energy when walking, using melee, or taking damage.

- Still vulnerable to procs, CC, and damage.

Rift Walk

- Grants total immunity and invulnerability to everything outside.

- Is cut off from doing anything significant unless the enemy is brought into the rift.

- Is vulnerable while in the rift with an enemy.

Defy

- Can cheat death as long as energy and health are kept up.

- Heals less after each death and loses 25% of his current energy with each 'death'. 

- Still vulnerable to procs, CC, and damage.

 

Hysteria

- Grants damage, CC, and proc immunity.

- Gives access to powerful and scaling melee weapon.

- Charge attack is an instant kill on enemies that can receive finishers.

- Has the potential to last indefinitely with energy orbs.

- Vulnerable to enemy energy draining.

- Limited range.

Please review that list and compare the abilities with each other. You can clearly see which ability is better at grant immunity and invulnerability.

Even if enemy scaling was changed, Hysteria's invulnerability would still be cheap.

Valkyr has the potential to be so much more, but she has too many players holding her back with the desperate need of invulnerability.

Edited March 13, 2016 by EmptyDevil

[IceColdHawk]

19 minutes ago, Valsako said:

Also, for some reason it decided to make two quotes and this bloody awful new forum system won't let me remove the second quote, what a shame...

Double-click on the quote and press "Delete". Problem solved!

Btw, even though it had nothing to do with this "thread" (can you even call it a legit thread?), i like your proposed ideas.

Edited March 13, 2016 by IceColdHawk

[evilfluffy]

8 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

Looks like i'm going back on my previous statement of not debating this. Let us try to keep this toxicity free.

I want to say stop using "melee only" as a drawback for Hysteria because it's not. Anyone that knows Valkyr well will know it is false because the damage scales very high into late game. Her charge attack while in Hysteria is a 100% instant kill for any finisher-vulnerable enemy you can connect it with - it executes quickly. When modded correctly(not hard to do) you can keep her in a state of total invulnerability + immunity for minutes against everything that isn't a nullifier.

Your examples are poor comparisons to Hysteria's invulnerability for a number of reasons, here is why:

Iron Skin and Warding Halo

- Is a fixed number of hit points.

- Has to be completely removed before reapplying.

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining.

Turbulence

- Redirects some projectiles.

- Is completely vulnerable to melee and AoE(rockets, stomps, ignis, and etc).

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining and procs.

Shatter Shield

- Lowers damage done by bullets.

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining and CC.

Shadow Step

- Is invisibility, not invulnerability and immunity. Don't use them as if they are synonymous with each other. 

- Can still be damage if not careful.

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining, CC, and procs.

Link

- Lowers enemy damage and also reflects CC + procs(only if Trinity is Linked to an enemy).

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining(CC and procs in some cases).

Blessing

- Damage reduction is applied based on the amount of damage healed.

- Requires a specific situation or tactic to maximize damage reduction.

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy draining, CC, and procs.

Undertow

- Puts player into a state with invulnerability.

- Has severely limited mobility and very weak damage.

- Drain is increased per enemy in the pool.

- Vulnerable to explosions.

Vex Armor

- Boosts armor when shields are damage, boosts damage when health is damage.

- Can still be damaged. 

- Still vulnerable to enemy energy drains, CC, and procs.

Prowl

- Makes the player invisible.

- Cancels when sprinting, sliding, grabbing ledges, bullet jumping, and wall latching.

- Temporarily disables player's invisibility when firing a non-silent weapon. 

- Drains more energy when walking, using melee, or taking damage.

- Still vulnerable to procs, CC, and damage.

Rift Walk

- Grants total immunity and invulnerability to everything outside.

- Is cut off from doing anything significant unless the enemy is brought into the rift.

- Is vulnerable while in the rift with an enemy.

Defy

- Can cheat death as long as energy and health are kept up.

- Heals less after each death and loses 25% of his current energy with each 'death'. 

- Still vulnerable to procs, CC, and damage.

 

Hysteria

- Grants damage, CC, and proc immunity.

- Gives access to powerful and scaling melee weapon.

- Charge attack is an instant kill on enemies that can receive finishers.

- Immune to enemy energy draining.

- Has the potential to last indefinitely with energy orbs.

- Limited range.

Please review that list and compare the abilities with each other. You can clearly see which ability is better at grant immunity and invulnerability.

Even if enemy scaling was changed, Hysteria's invulnerability would still be cheap.

Valkyr has the potential to be so much more, but she has too many players holding her back with the desperate need of invulnerability.

Let's look at this lovely list I bolded all the incorrect parts which granted weren't many

Rhino's iron shrapnel augment allows recasting with a hard knockdown.

Valkyr's claws are far weaker than any crit melee weapon with blood rush/body count combo.

Her ult is not immune to energy drain not anymore anyway (as are none of the energy over time costing abilities since 18.5).

Now can we stop asking to nerf a frame that doesn't need a nerf. Thank you. (and no she doesn't need a buff either)

Edited March 13, 2016 by evilfluffy

[EmptyDevil]

17 minutes ago, Valsako said:

-snip-

I'm playing victim? Don't project your personal issues onto me. You made that apparent with your ignorant brain-cell-killing feminist remark. It's quite sad that you felt the need to go out of your way for something like that - it's childish. You just didn't like the opinion. Again, grow up and learn to express yourself without the personal jabs and petty remarks. You've been that way in the previous Valkyr threads as well.

Anyway, on topic. The change you listed were ok but she doesn't necessarily need a new ability. Everything about her can be fixed with simple tweaks.

 

[EmptyDevil]

21 minutes ago, evilfluffy said:

Let's look at this lovely list I bolded all the incorrect parts which granted weren't many

Rhino's iron shrapnel augment allows recasting with a hard knockdown.

Valkyr's claws are far weaker than any crit melee weapon with blood rush/body count combo.

Her ult is not immune to energy drain not anymore anyway (as are none of the energy over time costing abilities since 18.5).

Now can we stop asking to nerf a frame that doesn't need a nerf. Thank you. (and no she doesn't need a buff either)

That list is taking the base ability itself into account. This means i am not listing augments because you need to sacrifice a slot just to obtain the effect.

Valkyr's claws are not that much weaker than a crit weapon with Blood Rush and Body Count. It is weaker but she gains access to complete immunity and a 1 shot kill.

Hysteria being affected by energy drains is either a bug or a lie. I want to believe you wouldn't lie to further an argument, so i'm going to log on and give it a test.(Evilfluffy enlightened me to the drain).

Valkyr needs Hysteria's invulnerability removed and she needs some buffing/tweaks in other abilities.

Edited March 13, 2016 by EmptyDevil

[evilfluffy]

• Fixed toggled Abilities preventing energy drain effects from Leech Eximus enemies.

if it isn't being drained then that's the bug.

found in 

Would I be opposed to hysteria's invulnerability being removed?  not really.

Does it need to be removed?  not really.

As long as the change doesn't make ability any more worthless than it is now (as it stands now only useful as a panic/revive teammate/activate life support button) but I play a warcry valkyr whose soul design in build is to survive outside of hysteria.

[LunarTemplar]

3 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

That list is taking the base ability itself into account. This means i am not listing augments because you need to sacrifice a slot just to obtain the effect.

Valkyr's claws are not that much weaker than a crit weapon with Blood Rush and Body Count. It is weaker but she gains access to complete immunity and a 1 shot kill.

Hysteria being affected by energy drains is either a bug or a lie. I want to believe you wouldn't lie to further an argument, so i'm going to log on and give it a test.

Valkyr needs Hysteria's invulnerability removed and she needs some buffing/tweaks in other abilities.

 

I can back up that 'energy drain' thing. I happened several times on my last trip to Eris for a rousing game of 'whole sale slaughter of the Infested'. A truly noble sport as you can imagine. Anyway, I was kicked out of Hysteria a couple times when I knew I still had 100+ energy left only to see 0 now and even got nailed by a Shock Eximis, needless to say, I was highly confused by this. So yeah, she's not immune to energy draining BS now.

[EmptyDevil]

1 minute ago, evilfluffy said:

• Fixed toggled Abilities preventing energy drain effects from Leech Eximus enemies.

if it isn't being drained then that's the bug.

found in 

Would I be opposed to hysteria's invulnerability being removed?  not really.

Does it need to be removed?  not really.

As long as the change doesn't make ability any more worthless than it is now (as it stands now only useful as a panic/revive teammate/activate life support button) but I play a warcry valkyr whose soul design in build is to survive outside of hysteria.

Thank you for showing me the source. I'll revise my list now.

Yeah, the idea isn't just to nerf Hysteria for the sake of nerfing her but to improve her too. Like how Trinity was changed and became arguably a lot better.

[evilfluffy]

1 minute ago, EmptyDevil said:

Thank you for showing me the source. I'll revise my list now.

Yeah, the idea isn't just to nerf Hysteria for the sake of nerfing her but to improve her too. Like how Trinity was changed and became arguably a lot better.

That is the trick though changing it in a way that keeps in line with berserker but doesn't nerf it to hell.

[(PSN)robotwars7]

am I the only one who is genuinely surprised that this thread hasn't been locked yet? either the mods are slacking, or people are being somewhat civil, and I don't know which is less likely...

[hawker_mech]

Her armor is fine, nerf Hysteria's survival capabilities instead.

[Stratego89]

42 minutes ago, LunarTemplar said:

-.- no.

more over, no.

 

 

have you not played Inaros at all? cause he is virtually unkillable with even a 'meh' load out.

Except for that firstly- he's a tank, not a berserker. A berserker isn't supposed to be able to stand up to a ton of damage without stealing any back, Inaros can do that. He's a tank. Secondly- everyone knows he's OP. Idk how he'll get change but I'm sure he will be at some point. He's definitely lower on the list of priority reworks though. *looks at exalted blade*

[EmptyDevil]

6 minutes ago, LunarTemplar said:

 

I can back up that 'energy drain' thing. I happened several times on my last trip to Eris for a rousing game of 'whole sale slaughter of the Infested'. A truly noble sport as you can imagine. Anyway, I was kicked out of Hysteria a couple times when I knew I still had 100+ energy left only to see 0 now and even got nailed by a Shock Eximis, needless to say, I was highly confused by this. So yeah, she's not immune to energy draining BS now.

Yeah, i also tested to be sure myself after getting the source from Evilfluffy. It's a good change but she needs some additional tweaks to better her kit.

3 minutes ago, evilfluffy said:

That is the trick though changing it in a way that keeps in line with berserker but doesn't nerf it to hell.

I always felt that making it so she still takes damage but can't die would be a one possible good change. If they were to do that, i'd want an increase to her movement speed by 25% and for Valkyr's damage to increase when she takes damage in Hysteria(something akin to Nyx's absorb). The damage could be added to the base damage of her claws, so it scales better with her melee mods.

3 minutes ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

am I the only one who is genuinely surprised that this thread hasn't been locked yet? either the mods are slacking, or people are being somewhat civil, and I don't know which is less likely...

I'm surprised too. Pretty sure they got lock requests/reports unless something broke. Things do seem to be calming down but we'll see how long that lasts...

[Senoinya]

37 minutes ago, IceColdHawk said:

Double-click on the quote and press "Delete". Problem solved!

Btw, even though it had nothing to do with this "thread" (can you even call it a legit thread?), i like your proposed ideas.

Ah, thank you! Though for me it doesn't seem to be double-click, it's hold down ctrl and right click, but nonetheless, your solution is how I discovered that, so it was very helpful.

I'm glad you liked the ideas I suggested. But no... This is far from a legit thread.

[Ibro156]

If you use a high duration and efficiency while being coupled with a primed flow or a regular flow. She can have her ult for a ridiculous amount of time. I understand she is primarily a melee berserker warframe, and I understand why she need the immunity, but the life steal just seems to push her over to OP section. To be honest, it too late to change her, she has the same situation like Loki. Majority of the community is already used to her. If DE tried to nerf a tiny bit, they get a sh1ts storm from their fan base about the change. Just look at this thread! If DE did it, most people here saying she's fine. They'll probably be the ones going for blood

[SubjectL]

This is all i'm going to say

 

If you lower the Armour

Buff something in return

Like so, the Armour does not need a nerf at all, its fine the way it is.

[IceColdHawk]

4 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Secondly- everyone knows he's OP. Idk how he'll get change but I'm sure he will be at some point. He's definitely lower on the list of priority reworks though. *looks at exalted blade*

Did you seriously go so far to call even Inaros OP?

 

[VoidNomade]

As long as Valky is being locked out from "half" of the game nodes because of the meta (valk + def = no no) i don´t see a problem. Even in her best Meta, Surv nodes, i barley see more than one valky.

I think her niche is fine. Changing her would mean her meta would shift. I wouldn´t like to see that. And let´s be honest a change would mean Mesa 2.0 all over again.

 

So please, stay away from her.

Edited March 13, 2016 by VoidNomade

[EmptyDevil]

2 minutes ago, Ibro156 said:

If you use a high duration and efficiency while being coupled with a primed flow or a regular flow. She can have her ult for a ridiculous amount of time. I understand she is primarily a melee berserker warframe, and I understand why she need the immunity, but the life steal just seems to push her over to OP section. To be honest, it too late to change her, she has the same situation like Loki. Majority of the community is already used to her. If DE tried to nerf a tiny bit, they get a sh1ts storm from their fan base about the change. Just look at this thread! If DE did it, most people here saying she's fine. They'll probably be the ones going for blood

Personally i don't think Loki really needs a change. If they were to change Loki, i would want them to remove disarm animation from enemies that were already disarmed. The should also make invisibility use the following mechanic from Prowl:

- Firing non-silent weapons temporarily reveals Loki's location and reapplies his cloak when he stops.

The same could be done for Ash and Smoke Screen.

[Scandroid]

Joined 13 days ago tries to balance the game

[Senoinya]

31 minutes ago, EmptyDevil said:

I'm playing victim? Don't project your personal issues onto me. You made that apparent with your ignorant brain-cell-killing feminist remark. It's quite sad that you felt the need to go out of your way for something like that - it's childish. You just didn't like the opinion. Again, grow up and learn to express yourself without the personal jabs and petty remarks. You've been that way in the previous Valkyr threads as well.

Anyway, on topic. The change you listed were ok but she doesn't necessarily need a new ability. Everything about her can be fixed with simple tweaks.

 

Unfortunately, yes, you are. You keep claiming people are just looking for an argument with you for no good reason, and anyone who disagrees with that statement is just mad because you want Valk's immortality gone even if the person makes it clear that they want it gone too. But I'm done with this, because clearly you're incapable of letting any of it sink in and so it's pointless to even try. But let me make this clear: I have no problem with your opinion (despite you claiming I do, because victim mentality), and lastly, what previous Valkyr threads? I don't recall posting in a Valkyr thread in quite some time, and I definitely don't recall anything like this happening in those, but I'm definitely not denying it's possible because I end up arguing with people about their logic all the time. Could you please provide reference to back up your claim? Or you can just ignore this part of the post, that'd be perfectly fine too, because like I said, it's pointless. My replies aren't sinking in for you, and your responses aren't contributing anything at all to this topic nor what I'm saying to you. It's honestly better to just drop it at this point.

 

But on topic, she does need a new ability. Like I said, Ripline is useless, and Paralysis is basically just another "1", she doesn't need two "1s", and she doesn't need a useless ability. Why should Valkyr be the only frame with two "1"-esque abilities? You are correct that she can be fixed with simple tweaks, but technically, Excalibur could have been fixed with just tweaks too, but It doesn't mean his full rework wasn't the better way to fix him. Simple tweaks might be better for frames like Nyx that only really have one problem (Psychic Bolts), but Valkyr has a lot of issues, as I noted.