RIP competitive PvP. Dark Sectors will no longer have PvP according to dev stream 71.

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

On 3/18/2016 at 4:58 PM, Phasedragon said:

All the real pvp players who played before dark sectors also stuck around after dark sectors, and pretty much unanimously agreed that it was crap. The only people who could have possibly quit from dark sectors removal were those who were abusing it and were salty that they lost their easy credit farm.

Anyone still trying to defend old DS 1.0......I'm just gonna drop this here:

 

 

Woah. Thats pretty fast. Almost as fast as SlvrDemon215`s run. Also, even though it has been over a year since they were taken out, what was your reasoning for using Bladestorm ? I think a person could do it faster using Bullet Attractor or Energy Vampire.

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

17 hours ago, (XB1)CFE Discord said:

Right. I cant come up with an occurence where Ive seen a PvP player go into a PvE related feedback section and bash it. I can think of several for the opposite though.

Because PVP players are all PVE players too. We can all PVE. I'm almost MR19 and I've done everything accept JV Raid for example. On the otherhand many PVE players can't PVP so they feel a need to come onto PVP related posts and bash something that either they are not good at or they refuse to try. Lol. It's like people who see your good at your job but also good at what they do and they are terrible at what you do, so it causes them to complain about you.

[(XBOX)StealthinWolf]

On ‎3‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:40 PM, (XB1)Xodus03 said:

Been doing this dance with DE and the community for over a year now and extremely tired of it... This is just another thread in the long line of threads that have been brought up only to be shut down due to people being overly adamant (or just plain ignorant) about the situation. If you want to read the first waves of this regurgitated banter, you can find a good portion of it here: 

 Some of the most involved and intelligent players ever to play this aspect of Solar Rails posted some of their ideas on the first above thread during the height of Solar Rail Wars on Xbox 1, and after asking us for our opinion, rather than listen, they basically ignored it until this point, shut down any previous conversation that was gaining traction (even though it would get heated... but that is what forum mods are for, or am I wrong?) and are now asking a community barely experienced in the game type they are referring to, due to stripping the game type away from us for over a year and the majority of true Rail Vets leaving due to lack of patients, for feedback about it's pitfalls. Good luck with that lol. 

 To anyone who is coming to this thread just to say how much they disliked old Solar Rails and the PvP aspects of it, how about you make the simple decision of not playing it? Could have done it when it was around, and could still do it if they were to come back... you are not FORCED to play it but the people who truly enjoy the game mode have no alternative that is even remotely related to the same aspects of Solar Rail conquest, aside from PvP that is still not balanced anyway. 

 Or we could go right into the reasoning behind the lore perspective of it and ask why do we even still have dark sectors with node bonuses at all without a Solar Rail to reach these Dark Sectors? If I am not mistaken, weren't Solar Rails the only way to reach Dark Sectors in the first place...? and thus the reason they are built and those zones can be conflicted on? No more Conflicts or Solar Rails should mean no more bonuses or even no more nodes themselves period. How would the community who "hates pvp but loves the bonuses" from these nodes, feel about just losing the bonuses altogether? 

 

 10% taxes... wayyyy too much (lol). I wonder how many people start civil war in whatever country you are from due to the toxicity of your tax system because I am sure that your tax values are much higher IRL lol.... I know mine are atleast roughly equivalent. Also 10 person Ghost Clan attacking fully active 4000 person Alliance... and you are surprised about the outcome? Players fighting other players while PvE aspects (other factions) of the game were involved and also attacking each other is EXACTLY what Solar Rail Conflict was before it was taken away... you said you played it but you obviously aren't very educated on the mode and how things actually worked... but you are ready to judge it full on.

 

 ...and that is EXACTLY what I am talking about in the first paragraph after the links. I don't mean to offend you with this comment but if I do, I apologize for doing so... but they are now going to piece together input from a group of people with either none, or next to no experience in the mode they are trying to improve... aka majority of posters on this and any recent thread involving Solar Rails.... should be interesting.

Okay so I live in the US as you could probly tell based on u knowing Art of War being an alliance. Also I'm more confused than upset did I state the outcome in a post about the attack and they at 1 point had the tax at 100% not 10%. The factions attacking as PvE yeah I said that but I never said I was a vet. I saw corpus and grineer specters never ones I see on other nodes. If they do well then they do. I liked the PvP I want them to bring it back many clans do. Just want people to come up with ideas. Do you have any? I made a suggestion that you kinda shot down after you saying im uneducated in Dark Sectors..yeah we attacked once but my idea wasnt for DE but for others to talk about ideas vets casuals newbies even the drifters you know maybe? Not to be rude but were you ever in Art of War or a clan in the alliance

 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

52 minutes ago, (XB1)StealthinWolf said:

Okay so I live in the US as you could probly tell based on u knowing Art of War being an alliance. Also I'm more confused than upset did I state the outcome in a post about the attack and they at 1 point had the tax at 100% not 10%. The factions attacking as PvE yeah I said that but I never said I was a vet. I saw corpus and grineer specters never ones I see on other nodes. If they do well then they do. I liked the PvP I want them to bring it back many clans do. Just want people to come up with ideas. Do you have any? I made a suggestion that you kinda shot down after you saying im uneducated in Dark Sectors..yeah we attacked once but my idea wasnt for DE but for others to talk about ideas vets casuals newbies even the drifters you know maybe? Not to be rude but were you ever in Art of War or a clan in the alliance

 

Wow. I literally can't even. Not only did you say Art of War had 100% taxes ( This is demonstrably false http://deathsnacks.com/wf/clan_bl_history.html#54a9aca35e9051a29556b442 LITERALLY ANYBODY can see Art of War has never had higher than 20% taxes) but then you ask if Xodus03 is in Art of War ? I have to assume this is some form of satire. Xodus03 is the founder of Art of War and arguably the most knowledgeable expert on rails (not counting JOEBLOW3800) on the Xbox One. We shouldn't have "Casuals, Newbies, and Drifters" giving asinine feedback if they don't understand how rails work to begin with. This is like asking a 4th grader to design a new model for a nuclear submarine.

[(XBOX)StealthinWolf]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Discord said:

Wow. I literally can't even. Not only did you say Art of War had 100% taxes ( This is demonstrably false http://deathsnacks.com/wf/clan_bl_history.html#54a9aca35e9051a29556b442 LITERALLY ANYBODY can see Art of War has never had higher than 20% taxes) but then you ask if Xodus03 is in Art of War ? I have to assume this is some form of satire. Xodus03 is the founder of Art of War and arguably the most knowledgeable expert on rails (not counting JOEBLOW3800) on the Xbox One. We shouldn't have "Casuals, Newbies, and Drifters" giving asinine feedback if they don't understand how rails work to begin with. This is like asking a 4th grader to design a new model for a nuclear submarine.

Okay first of if you had access to something like a chart which is really nice i saw someone on there I haven't talk to in awhile you could have just said what i said isn't true and this is proof instead of being so heated for my lack of knowledge or awareness. Secondly scrolling up and down i forget punctuations since i found out how to even follow post. Again my lack of knowledge popping up again. I'll try to proofread this one and future posts. So i didn't mean that their taxes were that high more of a hyperbole as what their taxes were as i stated only in the first response the taxes being too high as that is how the "revolution" I saw in chat and heard my clanmates saying while talking to there friends who were playing warframe. Didn't clarify that should have probably would have avoided this. Anyway you are upset also by what i said so to set the record straight. No i am not a vet of dark sectors, no i never invested a good amount of time into it as not being in a big clan thought it was not worth it since it was very unlikely to defeat any of the big guys like art of war, arbiters rage, or lock and load because again, I have almost to no insight, know how, or idea the ins and outs of dark sectors. No i was not showing any form of satire you took it that way as you stated. He stated that it wasn't true gave facts that were on the rude side blaming me for adding to the thread like you are now for responding. I asked the question at the end because his knowledge of the active players in the alliance and the enemy factions being present. I didn't ask or post anything in anger or hate nor did i state that it was bad i enjoyed it but again small clan versus big clan with alot more active members the small clan isn't getting anywhere. So my question is he in AoW was answered by you alright. Did you not read, stop, see what I was saying? You did read it all right? You didn't just skim and then respond? No disrespect for the previous questions either just the way you answer was unnecessary. Casual player being someone who could enjoy dark sectors like Xodus and i believe you also enjoyed it. Newbies so they can learn the ins and outs of dark sectors like the vets remember. Drifters...I'm sorry you confused the crap out me by being mad at me saying that what the hell do you think i meant by drifter? Especially with a maybe in the sentence i just threw again....a suggestion. So what I meant by drifter is someone who frequents dark sectors but are not apart of a clan. They do it because they enjoy PvP you know, like a lone wolf i guess that's what i was going for.

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

By the way. The only TRUE problem with rails is that they don't match the lore. We are supposed to have to build a rail to even REACH a dark sector. You're telling me we need to build a rail to reach part of a planet I can fly to in my ship? And now thst armistice is up, why are the nodes still getting the bonus resources? 
     Here. Me being awesome. Shall fix the issue! 
Here we go
You ready?
......
   Make a planet for the Dark Sectors.... Only reachable by rails! If you wanted to make one of the nodes a training node where noobs can face only specters and learn the basics of Rails before facing us MONSTERS in the REAL rail wars! So be it! But if you are going to fix the issues with rails, fix the REAL issues, not some imagined issued created by salty losers...
  You're welcome Tenno community!

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

From an undisclosed friend,

Dear pointless.
    Or whatever your name is. All I see is pointless statements pushing more relevant comments to the back of chat. Flooding my eyes with American school grammers,.!?':; And punctuation... 
     We came at you aggressively because you LIED. Trying to pass off your uneducated and admittedly 'ignorant' post as truth. 
   You may claim to like rails, but the sad fact is that you NEVER ACTUALLY PLAYED ONE! So please step aside for those of us who are competitive Railers who have waited long enough for DE to own up to, and fix their mistake. Which was, trying to make a rail system that caters to casuals, (like yourself), instead of fixing the system you already had! Which, by the way, was AWESOME!! 
    Sure there were region hopping scrubs, but that's not a hard problem to solve. You solved it in your last update to Conclave. Just make into a match can't start without defenders.
  Let's put aside trying to please little kids who are not even old enough to play this game. It does nothing to stop the complaining. And most of the complaints, as you can see, are based off of rumors and ignorance. 
   Bring back rails. Keep them large, real-time competitive PvP, which allows us to have actual real-time battle strategy. That was the draw of rails in the first place. The love of those battles, which brought TRUE glory to this game. 
    What these randoms are asking for, is a lukewarm version of this past awesomeness. Which will only do one thing. Lose you money. Please hear me DE! Don't take the advice of children! This is a 17+ game! For a reason!! 
     There are around 230+ PvE nodes. If you don't like rails, then don't play them. But if you do want rails, repost :   #StopCateringToCasuals

Edited March 24, 2016 by (XB1)Aeries Vendetta
Corrections

[(XBOX)StealthinWolf]

7 minutes ago, (XB1)Aeries Vendetta said:

From an u disclosed mutual friend,

Dear pointless.
    Or whatever your name is. All I see is pointless statements pushing more relevant comments to the back of chat. Flooding my eyes with American school grammers,.!?':; And punctuation... 
     We came at you aggressively because you LIED. Trying to pass off your uneducated and admittedly 'ignorant' post as truth. 
   You may claim to like rails, but the sad fact is that you NEVER ACTUALLY PLAYED ONE! So please step aside for those of us who are competitive Railers who have waited long enough for DE to own up to, and fix their mistake. Which was, trying to make a rail system that caters to casuals, (like yourself), instead of fixing the system you already had! Which, by the way, was AWESOME!! 
    Sure there were region hopping scrubs, but that's not a hard problem to solve. You solved it in your last update to Conclave. Just make into a match can't start without defenders.
  Let's put aside trying to please little kids who are not even old enough to play this game. It does nothing to stop the complaining. And most of the complaints, as you can see, are based off of rumors and ignorance. 
   Bring back rails. Keep them large, real-time competitive PvP, which allows us to have actual real-time battle strategy. That was the draw of rails in the first place. The love of those battles, which brought TRUE glory to this game. 
    What these randoms are asking for, is a lukewarm version of this past awesomeness. Which will only do one thing. Lose you money. Please hear me DE! Don't take the advice of children! This is a 17+ game! For a reason!! 
     There are around 230+ PvE nodes. If you don't like rails, then don't play them. But if you do want rails, repost :   #StopCateringToCasuals

Umm this wasn't directed just at me right

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

No it's directed at Xodus. He's TOTALLY more of a Casual than you.... 
I'm going to guess you will miss the dripping sarcasm. Yes. I was talkin' to ya...
 

[(XBOX)StealthinWolf]

I lied? About what? But hey it doesn't matter I'm not a competitive enough player so anything i say is complete and utter ignorance. Thanks for letting me know and i hope you and everyone else who can spit such venom at others like yourself can get what you once enjoyed. Hopefully if I ever have the gull to become competitive I never run across you because damn I'm going to be in a world of hurt. Well of to bed its late and i have work. Happy endeavors 

Edited March 24, 2016 by (XB1)StealthinWolf

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)StealthinWolf said:

27 minutes ago, (XB1)Aeries Vendetta said:

No it's directed at Xodus. He's TOTALLY more of a Casual than you.... 
I'm going to guess you will miss the dripping sarcasm. Yes. I was talkin' to ya...
 

 

[(XBOX)Xodus03]

7 hours ago, (XB1)StealthinWolf said:

Okay so I live in the US as you could probly tell based on u knowing Art of War being an alliance. Also I'm more confused than upset did I state the outcome in a post about the attack and they at 1 point had the tax at 100% not 10%. The factions attacking as PvE yeah I said that but I never said I was a vet. I saw corpus and grineer specters never ones I see on other nodes. If they do well then they do. I liked the PvP I want them to bring it back many clans do. Just want people to come up with ideas. Do you have any? I made a suggestion that you kinda shot down after you saying im uneducated in Dark Sectors..yeah we attacked once but my idea wasnt for DE but for others to talk about ideas vets casuals newbies even the drifters you know maybe? Not to be rude but were you ever in Art of War or a clan in the alliance

 

 

  Hey man... Sorry if it seemed like I was being rude or targeting you directly but I was trying to make a point about the state of the situation more than anything... so I apologize if it came off that way. Yes as Discord has said, I am the founder of both Lock n Load Clan and Art of War Alliance, as well as being one of the main leaders in The Order during their reign as majority Solar Rail holders, so I have been around for quite a while as well as learned ALOT and accomplished almost as much within the system. You asked for idea's regarding Solar Rails, and rather than retype and repost the same idea's that have been thrown around by not only myself, but many others also... I linked a few posts that have already gathered quite a bit of attention and creative input during a time when there was substantially alot more experienced Solar Rail players than there are now.

 

 To everyone else on the thread... let's try to keep the discussion positive and constructive. We don't need to start another war on one of these threads for no reason and get it shut down. we need Rails to get the attention that they deserve rather than keep being swept under the rug or have their modification influenced by the very same people who hate them to begin with.

Edited March 24, 2016 by (XB1)Xodus03

[(XBOX)Bubba5234]

OP said my thoughts on the matter. I'd love to see PvP in Dark Sectors again, and I spent a lot of time fighting in them and preparing for them. I WANT them to be competitive and give clans and alliances a reason to actually be together. As of now, there's not a lot of point in them. I definitely would say that Dark Sectors have not been given the thought and consideration that they deserve, and it has been a long wait. Please consider a lot of the good feedback in this thread.

[(XBOX)StealthinWolf]

2 hours ago, (XB1)Xodus03 said:

 

  Hey man... Sorry if it seemed like I was being rude or targeting you directly but I was trying to make a point about the state of the situation more than anything... so I apologize if it came off that way. Yes as Discord has said, I am the founder of both Lock n Load Clan and Art of War Alliance, as well as being one of the main leaders in The Order during their reign as majority Solar Rail holders, so I have been around for quite a while as well as learned ALOT and accomplished almost as much within the system. You asked for idea's regarding Solar Rails, and rather than retype and repost the same idea's that have been thrown around by not only myself, but many others also... I linked a few posts that have already gathered quite a bit of attention and creative input during a time when there was substantially alot more experienced Solar Rail players than there are now.

 

 To everyone else on the thread... let's try to keep the discussion positive and constructive. We don't need to start another war on one of these threads for no reason and get it shut down. we need Rails to get the attention that they deserve rather than keep being swept under the rug or have their modification influenced by the very same people who hate them to begin with.

I understand hope you guys can get the solar rails back to their glory maybe even better 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

6 hours ago, (XB1)Aeries Vendetta said:

From an undisclosed friend,

Dear pointless.
    Or whatever your name is. All I see is pointless statements pushing more relevant comments to the back of chat. Flooding my eyes with American school grammers,.!?':; And punctuation... 
     We came at you aggressively because you LIED. Trying to pass off your uneducated and admittedly 'ignorant' post as truth. 
   You may claim to like rails, but the sad fact is that you NEVER ACTUALLY PLAYED ONE! So please step aside for those of us who are competitive Railers who have waited long enough for DE to own up to, and fix their mistake. Which was, trying to make a rail system that caters to casuals, (like yourself), instead of fixing the system you already had! Which, by the way, was AWESOME!! 
    Sure there were region hopping scrubs, but that's not a hard problem to solve. You solved it in your last update to Conclave. Just make into a match can't start without defenders.
  Let's put aside trying to please little kids who are not even old enough to play this game. It does nothing to stop the complaining. And most of the complaints, as you can see, are based off of rumors and ignorance. 
   Bring back rails. Keep them large, real-time competitive PvP, which allows us to have actual real-time battle strategy. That was the draw of rails in the first place. The love of those battles, which brought TRUE glory to this game. 
    What these randoms are asking for, is a lukewarm version of this past awesomeness. Which will only do one thing. Lose you money. Please hear me DE! Don't take the advice of children! This is a 17+ game! For a reason!! 
     There are around 230+ PvE nodes. If you don't like rails, then don't play them. But if you do want rails, repost :   #StopCateringToCasuals

The thing with that solution is that to defend a node successfully, all you would have to do is not defend it at all.

[(XBOX)Y0DA PRiME]

People hate us pvp clans cause they cant play pvp where we are the best at pvp and pve 

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

11 hours ago, (XB1)StealthinWolf said:

Okay so I live in the US as you could probly tell based on u knowing Art of War being an alliance. Also I'm more confused than upset did I state the outcome in a post about the attack and they at 1 point had the tax at 100% not 10%. The factions attacking as PvE yeah I said that but I never said I was a vet. I saw corpus and grineer specters never ones I see on other nodes. If they do well then they do. I liked the PvP I want them to bring it back many clans do. Just want people to come up with ideas. Do you have any? I made a suggestion that you kinda shot down after you saying im uneducated in Dark Sectors..yeah we attacked once but my idea wasnt for DE but for others to talk about ideas vets casuals newbies even the drifters you know maybe? Not to be rude but were you ever in Art of War or a clan in the alliance

 

Lmao....he is the Founder of Art of War. You have no clue what you're talking about. Smdh

 

[(XBOX)StealthinWolf]

5 minutes ago, (XB1)Lorewalker1022 said:

Lmao....he is the Founder of Art of War. You have no clue what you're talking about. Smdh

 

Yeah i found that out

[NyxSilence]

I knew the Dark Sectors were unbalanced. I did. So did everyone else. HOWEVER, I play pvp now to (sparingly) and that has been reworked into the foundation. But I was good then and I am relearning now. So I'm going to put it into perspective now for all the PvE side.

 

These PvPers have suffered enough grinding through the ranks and so have pride in their work. PvErs have all these rewards and PvPers have very few (140 total, 43 are sigils/skins, so 30% of them are pointless really). You salty people really want to deprive them of what they want? The competition they find in each other.

I am so sick of this sad, Sally-sob-story community, that relies on Draco primarily and couldn't dream of doing any other mode because "the grinding of formaed weapons will make them strong." Dark Sectors will always be remembered as a PVP mode and all the Sallys that cry wanting those skins are going to have to grow up, put down the Boltor and git gud. The PvErs are crying so much harder than that blasphemed Destiny community when Iron Banner came out. Out of 282 nodes (not counting Void) 26 are Dark Sectors. So you people are crying over a whole 9% of nodes designed JUST FOR CONCLAVE?! You irrelevant people need to get over yourselves. For real. If not, I hear League of Legends is still taking whiners.

[Fraank]

On 21.3.2016 at 9:04 PM, (XB1)Xodus03 said:

 Actually if your point isn't ironclad, it just representative of what you believe also... How do I know? Make it PvP and you exclude PvE players... sure, but make it PvE and you exclude at the very least, me, a pure Solar Rail conflict player. I know many others feel the same way, and don't play this game very much anymore because all it has is PvE grinds on top of more PvE grinds... with a few more "unique" PvE grinds to spice things up a bit (lol). Dark Sectors may have been "End Game", but only for those who enjoyed PvP so saying that it is an "endgame" PvP game mode that forces PvE players to play is not true. End game for PvE is T4 Void and Raids... or even Archwing since most new players aren't able to attain it right away, not Solar Rail Conflicts. If Dark Sector Conflicts were "forced" on PvE players, then why did I have to pay at least 50k for each run to each and every one of them to get a half decent participation level? And look here... as I make an example of the point I am trying to make for Dark Sectors and the choice that players have to participate or not, as I have chosen not to play any of that repetitive PvE nonsense for the past year that I have played for way too many hours as it was, just to prepare myself for the PvP Darksectors that they took away. The only people "forced" to play them were the ones on xbox hunting for an exclusive achievement for winning a War.

 Turning Dark Sector conflict into PvE, yes could possibly "include" more people to participate in the conflicts themselves, but also to me will be far more exploitable and harder to fight against due to not many Clans and/or Alliances being well established already. I know my clan has held #1 on Xbox since the beginning save for a handful of weeks on kills... so what is going to make dominating a PvE Solar Rail any different for us? Actually with it being that way, what is to make me not inclined to "conquer" or hold it as a Clan and not even an Alliance, making it even less "inclusive" for the community? Also you want to make Conclave more Clan Competitive? How so? Maybe by giving them territory that had some sort of small bonus or advantage to owning it, and have them fight each other for it? That is a genius idea! When do we start? lol. Please don't say something like by giving the clans a PvP leaderboard... because we know how far DE has their current leaderboard buried and how few people actually look at it... less than look at the names on the Dark Sectors.

 By the way, were you ExT Fraank who used to actually be an advocate for Solar Rail Conflicts returning? Because to me this just sounds like the leader of an Alliance that isn't entirely sure of their own capability anymore and could be possibly trying to preserve what they have left. Honestly I think people have been itching to get you off your nodes since before Armistice so I could see why you might be hoping for a drastic change... Might have something to do with those lovely tax values you placed on your Alliance though lol.

Sorry for the late reply.

I understand that you are butthurt(?) because DE said that DS is going to be PvE. I really do.  I dont play Conclave btw. "Schadenfreude" :p

Anyways! Why am i against DS PvP? Because we have Peer-to-Peer connections and no dedicated servers for DS Conflicts. A fair competition wasnt possible at all. Not sure how the connection is on XBOX but on PC the connection is A: Good or B: horribly bad and even worse due to terribad hosts. There are people out there with unimaginable wooden internet pipelines. Have you ever had a single DS match with a horribly awful and slow host? I dont think so! Ever fought against russian/south american alliances while you are located in Australia/China/EU/US? I doubt it. At least you XBOX guys have identical hardware. PC players dont. No offense to these guys, it is not their fault, but their connections/slow PCs made it impossible to win sometimes for some alliances. And this is my experience and why i would be glad to see DS PvE. And the cancerous community of course. i got the blame for bad internet connections, ddos, cheating, hacking, unfair strategies and so on. The list is endless. I already mentioned the other fact with Amount of PvE Players >> PvP Players

The idea with the conclave leaderboard is yours and I only said that PvP competitions fit into Conclave and that it might be worth a discussion. I dont know how and i dont care.

Yeah, i m one of the nice and handsome looking Leaders of ICE Alliance. I m sitting here and wait for DarkSectors to return someday, like anyone else does. In my opinion there is nothing left to preserve.Alliance activity maybe. Tbh, i ve tried to encourage some ppl with 100% Taxes to kick me off the nodes. As you were able to see, it didnt work.

[-InV-Skitz0]

I admire the commitment of you console Tenno players to competitive PvP DS. While your overall numbers may be fewer then here in PC land it seems to me that a higher percentage of your player base participated in PvP DS as a whole. However traditionally here on PC, PvP on DS was not only a big turn off for a large portion of the community but an area of the game that was contemptuous for a lot of PvE players. When DS conflicts switched over from PvE to PvP I witnessed over half the active players on PvP opt out of participation in DS purely because of the switch, and I  feel the opposite would be true for you console players if the switch happens again in reverse.

I believe the Origin System if more then big enough to accommodate both the Honorable PvE players as well as the Blood Thirsty PvP players. As long as the relative times of each match and % of damage done to the rail (If this is even still a thing in the future, because really I have no Idea) and all rewards given are the same then I say having both would definitely be he way to go here. As for me personally as long as the system is competitive clan/alliance warfare and we actually get some rewards to our members who dedicate their in game time to playing these conflicts (again if they can even be called conflicts int the future) then my alliance will be happy.

 

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by --Skitz0--
typo

[(XBOX)Xodus03]

3 hours ago, Fraank said:

Sorry for the late reply.

I understand that you are butthurt(?) because DE said that DS is going to be PvE. I really do.  I dont play Conclave btw. "Schadenfreude" :p

Anyways! Why am i against DS PvP? Because we have Peer-to-Peer connections and no dedicated servers for DS Conflicts. A fair competition wasnt possible at all. Not sure how the connection is on XBOX but on PC the connection is A: Good or B: horribly bad and even worse due to terribad hosts. There are people out there with unimaginable wooden internet pipelines. Have you ever had a single DS match with a horribly awful and slow host? I dont think so! Ever fought against russian/south american alliances while you are located in Australia/China/EU/US? I doubt it. At least you XBOX guys have identical hardware. PC players dont. No offense to these guys, it is not their fault, but their connections/slow PCs made it impossible to win sometimes for some alliances. And this is my experience and why i would be glad to see DS PvE. And the cancerous community of course. i got the blame for bad internet connections, ddos, cheating, hacking, unfair strategies and so on. The list is endless. I already mentioned the other fact with Amount of PvE Players >> PvP Players

The idea with the conclave leaderboard is yours and I only said that PvP competitions fit into Conclave and that it might be worth a discussion. I dont know how and i dont care.

Yeah, i m one of the nice and handsome looking Leaders of ICE Alliance. I m sitting here and wait for DarkSectors to return someday, like anyone else does. In my opinion there is nothing left to preserve.Alliance activity maybe. Tbh, i ve tried to encourage some ppl with 100% Taxes to kick me off the nodes. As you were able to see, it didnt work.

 You are right, I won't even lie... I am butthurt.... but it isn't because of you, it is because of DE. And the thing is I agree with your reasoning to want a PvE DS but I don't agree with someone like you (and also Skitzo) who are veterans of this system advocating for it to be turned into the same mushy nonsense the rest of the game is already. You guys both know the ins and outs, and sounds like you have experienced the exact same problems we have (Bad connections, blame for things you can't control, insurmountable amounts of salt, and scrutiny of your strategies... hell I have even had somewhere around 100 people actively chanting that I was Hitler in Region chat one night lol), but rather than stand up and fight for solutions to the problems that were there, you roll over and submit to DE and the rest of the (uninformed) community's unreasonable demands. Being completely honest, the ONLY thing that desperately needed a fixing in the DS system was P2P connections (yes we had the same problems) and their notoriously awful reputation for not allowing players to connect to eachother. A fix in the form of the same dedicated servers that the relays run off of, would have made unmeasurable improvements on the mode.... the rest of the minor problems could be worked out with balancing updates the same way they have been updating Conclave... or am I so far off a feasible solution I may as well be delusional here?

[-InV-Skitz0]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)Xodus03 said:

 You are right, I won't even lie... I am butthurt.... but it isn't because of you, it is because of DE. And the thing is I agree with your reasoning to want a PvE DS but I don't agree with someone like you (and also Skitzo) who are veterans of this system advocating for it to be turned into the same mushy nonsense the rest of the game is already. You guys both know the ins and outs, and sounds like you have experienced the exact same problems we have (Bad connections, blame for things you can't control, insurmountable amounts of salt, and scrutiny of your strategies... hell I have even had somewhere around 100 people actively chanting that I was Hitler in Region chat one night lol), but rather than stand up and fight for solutions to the problems that were there, you roll over and submit to DE and the rest of the (uninformed) community's unreasonable demands. Being completely honest, the ONLY thing that desperately needed a fixing in the DS system was P2P connections (yes we had the same problems) and their notoriously awful reputation for not allowing players to connect to eachother. A fix in the form of the same dedicated servers that the relays run off of, would have made unmeasurable improvements on the mode.... the rest of the minor problems could be worked out with balancing updates the same way they have been updating Conclave... or am I so far off a feasible solution I may as well be delusional here?

I roll over for no one including DE. And I have advocated for PvE and PvP on DS before the nodes even became frozen. As you can clearly see in the post below.

When I suggest the addition of both PvE and PvP options I do not do so lightly. In fact it would be in my alliances favor if it stayed PvP. Over the armistice we have been hard at work growing and organizing the alliance as well as training and collecting the conclave mods in preparation.  I even have a couple of pure PvP clans in Ice that have dedicated their sole existence in this game to the future PvP conquest of the rails. So I feel your pain man I really do, I even agree with the majority of points you have brought up in these threads (even though I think some of your post borderline on personal attacks which tend to weaken your overall argument). However witnessing both PvE and PvP DS first hand and to keep enough party's interested to foster healthy competition and to prevent stagnation like in the past I see no reason why PvE and PvP cant have a place in DS.

Again my main concern is that they stay competitive and have a meaningful impact on the game. If DS turn in to a daily PvE co-op grind then My alliance will be forced to rethink it's overall involvement in the game. In fact my biggest fear as owner of a competitive alliance is that it would be changed into such a pee wee football esque everyone gets a trophy type of system. Not to come of as an elitist here, but if there is no competition then there is no reason for us to dedicate so much time and effort for this alliance system what so ever.

 

 

[(XBOX)The Repo Man151]

13 minutes ago, --Skitz0-- said:

I roll over for no one including DE. And I have advocated for PvE and PvP on DS before the nodes even became frozen. As you can clearly see in the post below.

When I suggest the addition of both PvE and PvP options I do not do so lightly. In fact it would be in my alliances favor if it stayed PvP. Over the armistice we have been hard at work growing and organizing the alliance as well as training and collecting the conclave mods in preparation.  I even have a couple of pure PvP clans in Ice that have dedicated their sole existence in this game to the future PvP conquest of the rails. So I feel your pain man I really do, I even agree with the majority of points you have brought up in these threads (even though I think some of your post borderline on personal attacks which tend to weaken your overall argument). However witnessing both PvE and PvP DS first hand and to keep enough party's interested to foster healthy competition and to prevent stagnation like in the past I see no reason why PvE and PvP cant have a place in DS.

Again my main concern is that they stay competitive and have a meaningful impact on the game. If DS turn in to a daily PvE co-op grind then My alliance will be forced to rethink it's overall involvement in the game. In fact my biggest fear as owner of a competitive alliance is that it would be changed into such a pee wee football esque everyone gets a trophy type of system. Not to come of as an elitist here, but if there is no competition then there is no reason for us to dedicate so much time and effort for this alliance system what so ever.

 

 

Quoting you in that thread

"In PvE mode the attacker does not have a cap at 20 lives, instead each WarFrame uses the same 4 revives that it would on normal missions. Also the attackers do not bring with them a specter regiment they are playing the enemy's specters with just their squad of four. Now the only thing left is to ensure that PvE players spend an equal amount of time in game as PvP players do, this way no matter the option to PvP or to PvE you are doing around the same amount of damage in about the same amount of time. First the amount of forces the attacker must face is increased both in number and power in later sections. Secondly Items such as turrets should pose much more of a threat to PvE then it's PvP counterpart. Buff the HP/armor of turrets and make them deal a solid amount of damage, having each turrets in each progressing section doing even more damage."

Yeaaa, I dont see how that can work. It would be devastatingly easy to cheese through the PvE mode on rails. Now, I know what you are thinking, "But Discord, cant they do the same thing in the PvP mode and cheese it there too ?" No. They cant. There is always a way to counter something or someone in PvP. Humanity as a whole is good at thinking ourselves out of bad situations and will find an even better strategy to beat the cheese. PvE enemies cant think. They cant adapt. If someone finds a way to do the PvE option in 30 seconds, AI enemies wont stand a snowball`s chance in hell of surviving against that strategy. However, a Human can adapt and beat that strategy. If there is a PvE option, rails would be more exploited than they are accused of already.

[(XBOX)Xodus03]

1 hour ago, --Skitz0-- said:

I roll over for no one including DE. And I have advocated for PvE and PvP on DS before the nodes even became frozen. As you can clearly see in the post below.

When I suggest the addition of both PvE and PvP options I do not do so lightly. In fact it would be in my alliances favor if it stayed PvP. Over the armistice we have been hard at work growing and organizing the alliance as well as training and collecting the conclave mods in preparation.  I even have a couple of pure PvP clans in Ice that have dedicated their sole existence in this game to the future PvP conquest of the rails. So I feel your pain man I really do, I even agree with the majority of points you have brought up in these threads (even though I think some of your post borderline on personal attacks which tend to weaken your overall argument). However witnessing both PvE and PvP DS first hand and to keep enough party's interested to foster healthy competition and to prevent stagnation like in the past I see no reason why PvE and PvP cant have a place in DS.

Again my main concern is that they stay competitive and have a meaningful impact on the game. If DS turn in to a daily PvE co-op grind then My alliance will be forced to rethink it's overall involvement in the game. In fact my biggest fear as owner of a competitive alliance is that it would be changed into such a pee wee football esque everyone gets a trophy type of system. Not to come of as an elitist here, but if there is no competition then there is no reason for us to dedicate so much time and effort for this alliance system what so ever.

 

 

 

 I know you guys both have been fighting for rails like myself and a few others since they have been put on Armistice... and like some of us, even before... but only recently have I seen you guys openly accept/endorse the PvE aspect of it which is why I am wondering what has changed over the last year? If all you are talking about with PvE intertwining with PvP is reminiscent of what Rails used to be (PvP with NPC's running around to kill in a mode who's purpose is conquering territory), then yeah I wouldn't be against that at all... but I won't settle for something silly like a Leaderboard to track PvE progress for the system... I still want a fight of some sort. The problem is that it sounds like DE is wanting to turn Rails from a competitive Clan/Alliance based system into a fully PvE system that mirrors basically the rest of the entire game and caters to everyone BUT the competitive. It is funny how you guys are advocating the PvE version of Rails while saying the PvP system benefits you more, while I am over here advocating the PvP version even though I know the PvE version would accommodate my clan and group much more than the PvP would due to us holding majority of the top PvE clans in the game in a single Alliance lol... not that we aren't ready for PvP either.

 You may be right in some of my posts seeming like "personal attacks" and I will fully admit that I take alot of aspects of Solar Rails personal in general and do get offended.... not by the accusations, insults or any of that, but the complete upheaval of a system that I have put 1000's of hours and almost equal amounts of money into only to have all of the purpose and previous hard work/investment be stripped away due to the creating company jumping ship rather than answering the call for help that it actually needed. Also rarely, if ever, do I recall attacking someone unwarranted before they brought up something directly involving me, and if I do acknowledge or debate a specific point or person, it is usually in effort to defend myself as well as bring the true information regarding the topic to light.

 Anyway, to a certain extent I agree with the mentality that it doesn't matter what happens to Solar Rails as long as they remain competitive in nature and we actually get them back soon. Please keep the really adamant and passionate player base for the mode in mind when working on the new system... there is no way to make EVERYONE happy but atleast give the people who have been here fighting for this, a path to enjoy your game once again rather than neglect us over the opinions of people who have always had the choice to not play something rather than come here and ruin it for everyone who did enjoy it.

Edit to make a point: Just read your old thread... and you should take a look at your own thread from about a year and a half ago during the height of Solar Rails and how little attention it got even though it was extremely well written and thought out... now look at this post a year after Solar Rails have been taken away and the amount of attention it has received where the OP published minimal information and a blurb about personal feelings in Dark Sectors. That is a perfect example of Solar Rails, and their problems (past, present, and future) as a whole... and how now all we have left to fight for Rails is a handful of vets and a boatload of people who don't truly understand the entire system in the first place. For the most part, because of the nature of Solar Rails, throughout the past, the people who have come to the forums... have come here to complain. Back in 2014, while they existed, the amount of attention you saw on your thread was pretty much the norm for almost any thread involving Solar Rails aside from DE created posts, which means obviously the problems weren't serious enough to push the community to give a damn, one way or another. And now you see 10 pages of people complaining, one way or another, either for or against Solar Rails more than a year after they have been gone... on some random thread. It shows the impact that game mode had on the community and how memorable it was, that even people who have joined WF well after DS was removed, are asking about some epic game mode that they heard about from way back when... and even some of the people who are here advocating against them, are only doing so because they still remember them and the impact that they had on the game itself. Very few or even possibly no other game modes, not only on WF, but on any game from any console... anywhere... have that kind of impact on their own game and community. That is the kind of unique you not only hold onto and take pride in, but if you are business like DE, you ride all the way to the bank with the right teams behind it (marketing, programming, ect). 

Edited March 24, 2016 by (XB1)Xodus03
To make a point