About Sayrn and Excal

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Epsik-kun said:

Clearly someone didn't build his own Excal yet.

 

Beg your pardon?

 

 

I am well aware of what i am talking about. Excals damage is quite strong but it has its limitations. Excals main damage source is raw damage under exactly two types of multipliers: power strength and stealth. Power strength is a permanent multiplier and stealth is a single 4x multiplier which is triggered when blinding enemys. The raw damage has a good base but it's not quite where red crits are.

Saryn is able to substain her stealth with naramon, plays the melee type which has red crits and sets poison which doesn't only profit from the higher damage but also from the single multiplier in multiple instances... while setting the dot, spreading the dot, detonating spores scaling from the dot and in the next step gaining another dot which scales from the scaled spore detonation, from each present dot you're able to put on enemys

*Before they die

*In 10 seconds as first dots start vanishing then, still writing a rising curve as the possibly weaker dots start beein replaced with stronger ones.

 

Higher base, same type of damage (possibly multiple targets per hit, less per hit but definitly hitting as they don't have to stay in line), damage assist instead of defensive assist, offarea damage which basicly works for itself when you run with a squad.

Sry man but this isn't for discussion but set in stone. And don't get me wrong, noone called excal bad...saryn is just >better< in this killing buisness.

Edited March 23, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

1 hour ago, Epsik-kun said:

Clearly someone didn't build his own Excal yet.

 

Beg your pardon?

 

 

Dude that shows absolutely nothing. 

A) You are playing solo, of course you got a bunch of kills. This is a comparison thread, not a "who can get the most kills solo" thread.

B) 3500 kills in 2 hrs. I can get 1000 kills with my melee Saryn in 30 mins lol. 

C) This comparison was bunk from the beginning. Excalibur is a single target DPS  style frame when built in the usual way. However, Saryn has always been a multiple target DPS frame and still is after the rework. 

D) As far as melee goes, Excal has a few nice tools like blind and slash dash. However he has no way to heal himself outside of life strike which takes up a mod slot in place of a damage mod. Saryn only needs an augment (RM) and life strike becomes completely unnecessary. Not to mention She can blockup to 95% of frontal damage with toxic lash.

E) Naramon makes it easy to rack up stats like that for any frame in melee combat alongside the shadow debt mods (which we console players do not have yet unfortunately) basically rendering any of this null n void.

Give her a little credit, Excal is great at swinging that energy sword around. But she can do this with "actual" melee combat.

[Epsik-kun]

42 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I am well aware of what i am talking about.

Yeah, right. Surging Dash.

42 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Excals damage is quite strong but it has its limitations. Excals main damage source is raw damage under exactly two types of multipliers: power strength and stealth. Power strength is a permanent multiplier and stealth is a single 4x multiplier which is triggered when blinding enemys. The raw damage has a good base but it's not quite where red crits are.

You think it's that simple? I won't be so sure about that.

 

 

38 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

Dude that shows absolutely nothing. 

>whole thread of "Saryn did that, there's no way Excal can do that"
>Excal does that
>shows absolutely nothing

38 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

B) 3500 kills in 2 hrs. I can get 1000 kills with my melee Saryn in 30 mins lol. 

1000 per 30 minutes = 4000 over 2 hours, assuming enemies don't scale
>lol
It actually means you not only won't be able to do 2 hours, even if you were able - you would end up with much less than 3k kill over the course of 2 hours, because enemies do scale.

38 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

However he has no way to heal himself outside of life strike which takes up a mod slot in place of a damage mod. Saryn only needs an augment (RM) and life strike becomes completely unnecessary.

Wasting a slot on the frame is somehow better than wasting slot on a weapon. Also, let's act like Furis doesn't exist.

38 minutes ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

Give her a little credit, Excal is great at swinging that energy sword around. But she can do this with "actual" melee combat.

I give Saryn all the credit she deserves. Problem is, this thread's direction changed to polar opposite - from idiotic "Sarin can't do S#&amp;&#036;, Excal does everything" to equally idiotic "Excal can't do S#&amp;&#036;, Saryn does everything" full of autistic circlejerk. Weren't it you people who first said "you shouldn't compare frames who are so different"?

>Hitting stuff with a stick so everything abruptly dies behind walls is "actual" melee
>EBlade isn't
Right.

And, god, are you trying to imply waves can do like anything to enemies lvl 80+? Just play an Excal like at least once first.

 

The main point is, I didn't even used a specialised build for this. That was my universal Excal build, with only 155 Power Strength, which can be upped to 314%, some survivability mods, Rage, Defensive Arcanes(all are useless after the first hour of T4S) and Life Strike on melee which can be omitted when Naramon is used.

I used quite literally less than a half of Excal potential.

[-NEO-Roguelike]

On 21.03.2016 at 7:31 PM, SpyGhostOtissss said:

but Sayrn is supposed to be a DPS frame and does less dmg than excal

Lol,cant comment this:D Are people still think saryn pure and useless?

[S0V3REiGN]

If I use my cover lethality dagger with Inaros and Naramon does that mean I am a better damage dealer then Excal and Saryn? 

Edited March 23, 2016 by S0V3REiGN

[Epsik-kun]

9 minutes ago, S0V3REiGN said:

If I use my cover lethality dagger with Inaros and Naramon does that mean I am a better damage dealer then Excal and Saryn? 

Imagine an Ancient and a Nullifier standing together.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Epsik-kun said:

Yeah, right. Surging Dash.

You think it's that simple? I won't be so sure about that.

 

 

>whole thread of "Saryn did that, there's no way Excal can do that"
>Excal does that
>shows absolutely nothing

1000 per 30 minutes = 4000 over 2 hours, assuming enemies don't scale
>lol
It actually means you not only won't be able to do 2 hours, even if you were able - you would end up with much less than 3k kill over the course of 2 hours, because enemies do scale.

Wasting a slot on the frame is somehow better than wasting slot on a weapon. Also, let's act like Furis doesn't exist.

I give Saryn all the credit she deserves. Problem is, this thread's direction changed to polar opposite - from idiotic "Sarin can't do S#&amp;&#036;, Excal does everything" to equally idiotic "Excal can't do S#&amp;&#036;, Saryn does everything" full of autistic circlejerk. Weren't it you people who first said "you shouldn't compare frames who are so different"?

>Hitting stuff with a stick so everything abruptly dies behind walls is "actual" melee
>EBlade isn't
Right.

And, god, are you trying to imply waves can do like anything to enemies lvl 80+? Just play an Excal like at least once first.

 

The main point is, I didn't even used a specialised build for this. That was my universal Excal build, with only 155 Power Strength, which can be upped to 314%, some survivability mods, Rage, Defensive Arcanes(all are useless after the first hour of T4S) and Life Strike on melee which can be omitted when Naramon is used.

I used quite literally less than a half of Excal potential.

Surging dash is an exceptation, you're right about that AND i also mentioned it in my earlyer posts as he's quite litteraly using the full ammount of damage on the stronger base. Difference only beein the reliability which suffers even more (autotarget vs rng directed waves, falloff on regular waves as you encounter energy problems where saryns dps is unwavering) but you have my regards for realising the potential instead of just beein satisfied with the meta spam. Tipp from my side: grab a huras. Substains the naramon stealth before activation. Very usefull in sorties and short missions!

And don't think that anyone here is refering to specialised saryn builds eather pal. It's all about what your weapon is able to do, evrything else is part of her kit. Basicly the same as your unused excal potential. Could do the same, would have the same effect.

Edited March 23, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

3 hours ago, Epsik-kun said:

Yeah, right. Surging Dash.

You think it's that simple? I won't be so sure about that.

 

 

>whole thread of "Saryn did that, there's no way Excal can do that"
>Excal does that
>shows absolutely nothing

1000 per 30 minutes = 4000 over 2 hours, assuming enemies don't scale
>lol
It actually means you not only won't be able to do 2 hours, even if you were able - you would end up with much less than 3k kill over the course of 2 hours, because enemies do scale.

Wasting a slot on the frame is somehow better than wasting slot on a weapon. Also, let's act like Furis doesn't exist.

I give Saryn all the credit she deserves. Problem is, this thread's direction changed to polar opposite - from idiotic "Sarin can't do S#&amp;&#036;, Excal does everything" to equally idiotic "Excal can't do S#&amp;&#036;, Saryn does everything" full of autistic circlejerk. Weren't it you people who first said "you shouldn't compare frames who are so different"?

>Hitting stuff with a stick so everything abruptly dies behind walls is "actual" melee
>EBlade isn't
Right.

And, god, are you trying to imply waves can do like anything to enemies lvl 80+? Just play an Excal like at least once first.

 

The main point is, I didn't even used a specialised build for this. That was my universal Excal build, with only 155 Power Strength, which can be upped to 314%, some survivability mods, Rage, Defensive Arcanes(all are useless after the first hour of T4S) and Life Strike on melee which can be omitted when Naramon is used.

I used quite literally less than a half of Excal potential.

All that and your still missing the point man. YOU are the one who went after someone's objection to the notion that Saryn does more damage than Excal. I have nothing to prove here, you are the one making a claim. And if I recall your original argument to CoolD2 was "Someone hasn't used Excal before". Do you honestly think that we haven't done our research? That we don't know what we're doing with Excal? The easiest frame to play in the entire game, and we apparently don't know how to play him I guess.

And of course I took enemy scaling into account when doing calculations based off my crit melee of choice, combining that with the damage multiplier from toxic lash, and with how toxic damage effects spores, 4000 kills is very reasonable within that time span.

And since this is a "circle jerk" thread where we are apparently dissing Excal, how about you check most of the thread rather than making assumptions. Also, wasting mods slots on weapons is entirely different than frames. Most frames require utility mods SUCH AS REGENGATIVE MOLT or a vitality to be viable into late game. No melee weapon requires non DPS mods unless you are considering p reach.

Eblade is in no way shape or form a melee ability even though it is classified as one. In order to use toxic lash effectively, close qaurter combat is required. You aren't 30 meters away swinging in all directions like a caster, you are up close and personal. And if your EB is falling off at level 80, you may need to rethink your build or at least Incorporate blind into it, because upping his power strength isn't a "specialized" build for him lol.

I don't care about your personal preferences or your thoughts on Excal or Saryn honestly. However don't go insulting people's skill with a frame without knowing how to build him yourself. Excalibur was actually most of our first frames and was my favorite for a long period of time. I just know his limitations, and I am willing to call them out when comparing them.

Edited March 23, 2016 by (PS4)KikoEschobar

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

All that and your still missing the point man. YOU are the one who went after someone's objection to the notion that Saryn does more damage than Excal. I have nothing to prove here, you are the one making a claim. And if I recall your original argument to CoolD2 was "Someone hasn't used Excal before". Do you honestly think that we haven't done our research? That we don't know what we're doing with Excal? The easiest frame to play in the entire game, and we apparently don't know how to play him I guess.

And of course I took enemy scaling into account when doing calculations based off my crit melee of choice, combining that with the damage multiplier from toxic lash, and with how toxic damage effects spores, 4000 kills is very reasonable within that time span.

And since this is a "circle jerk" thread where we are apparently dissing Excal, how about you check most of the thread rather than making assumptions. Also, wasting mods slots on weapons is entirely different than frames. Most frames require utility mods SUCH AS REGENGATIVE MOLT or a vitality to be viable into late game. No melee weapon requires non DPS mods unless you are considering p reach.

Eblade is in no way shape or form a melee ability even though it is classified as one. In order to use toxic lash effectively, close qaurter combat is required. You aren't 30 meters away swinging in all directions like a caster, you are up close and personal. And if your EB is falling off at level 80, you may need to rethink your build or at least Incorporate blind into it, because upping his power strength isn't a "specialized" build for him lol.

I don't care about your personal preferences or your thoughts on Excal or Saryn honestly. However don't go insulting people's skill with a frame without knowing how to build him yourself. Excalibur was actually most of our first frames and was my favorite for a long period of time. I just know his limitations, and I am willing to call them out when comparing them.

Haha cut him some slack^^ he has a point as he is refering to surging dash which i, if you recall, actually mentioned before. He assumed quite a few things as he didn't bother reading trough the whole thread but that's hardly something one can blame him for. Sure, saryn needs melee range but operates with range and surging dash even relys on physical combat which about equals them in theyr playstyles. 

I can relate as i was playing surging dash excal until the new channeling mechanic was implemented and kinda became underpowered at this point. It is now, key aspects aside, quite equal to what saryn is able to do as he also got/gets a buff with body count. This playstyle is far from easy to play, know or understand. This argument is in my eyes the difference between a meta-noob and someone who knows what's up. Something evry excal player should realise, what's sadly not the case and reflects in OUR oppinion about him.

 

He is right, saryn is not better then a surging dash excal, or at least not MUCH better.

 

Point stands tho, noone here called him weak. And calling a well played saryn stronger then a ...normal, or well played excal who's loosing all group utility on the better playstyle (blind becomes quite expensive if you have to spam slash dash while EB is active. Spores and viral on the other side spreads all the time.) isn't an exageration or lie.

Edited March 23, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

But maybe i'm just missinterpreting things and he's a even bigger noob then i'd assume who thinks that a spam excal is the strongest thing in the game, idk. He didn't quite go into detail on that one.

 

Doesn't look like it tho. THIS, or rather the visible multiplier is the excal ideal.

Edited March 23, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Epsik-kun]

6 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Surging dash is an exceptation, you're right about that

Have you ever heard about "sarcasm"? Because that was it. I "also mentioned in my earlier posts" that Surging Dash build is incapable of scaling into late-game and doing significant damage. That's why I suggested you to craft yourself an Excal, because you obviously never used one.

4 hours ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

Do you honestly think that we haven't done our research? That we don't know what we're doing with Excal?

Dear, I don't "think". I know. I can basically repeat my whole previous answer to you once again, mocking your "flawless" mathematics, blatant unawareness about basics and clear lack of knowledge about how to build and play "the easiest frame in the entire game". You pretty simply didn't even understand that I was pointing out to you what was stupidly wrong with what you've said.

So, actually, if you want my answer to your post, just re-read what you are quoting.

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And calling a well played saryn stronger then a ...normal, or well played excal who's loosing all group utility on the better playstyle (blind becomes quite expensive if you have to spam slash dash while EB is active. Spores and viral on the other side spreads all the time.) isn't an exageration or lie.

That's what I told you about idiocy, by the way.

2 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

But maybe i'm just missinterpreting things and he's a even bigger noob then i'd assume who thinks that a spam excal is the strongest thing in the game, idk. He didn't quite go into detail on that one.

But maybe you simply have troubles comprehending new information?

 

I don't really like talking with people who plainly ignore things they don't understand.

[akira_him]

why you need to use slash dash when you can just EB all the things and EB already provide a lesser radial blind

the strength of EB comes from melee mod, not warframe mod, and radial blind has a decent range that you don't need a overextended mod, with +35% power strength and +45% range it is more than enough and you can still maintain 160% power efficiency, . Meanwhile since you are using shadowstep, we could also activate shadow step using energy wave, so we can swap some survivalbilty mods for drift mods to boost either range or strength, definitely it won't loss all team utility

btw I played exca like 4% in total and saryn in 5%

[PikeOrShield]

19 minutes ago, akira_him said:

why you need to use slash dash when you can just EB all the things and EB already provide a lesser radial blind

Some People like Surging Dash builds since it works very well with the Shadow Debt mods and you are invincible during the Slash Dash animation.  So it's more damage per hit vs. more hits.

[akira_him]

2 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

Some People like Surging Dash builds since it works very well with the Shadow Debt mods and you are invincible during the Slash Dash animation.  So it's more damage per hit vs. more hits.

but if you are using shadow debt mods, you shouldn't use EB since those mods don't work on EB

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Epsik-kun said:

Have you ever heard about "sarcasm"? Because that was it. I "also mentioned in my earlier posts" that Surging Dash build is incapable of scaling into late-game and doing significant damage. That's why I suggested you to craft yourself an Excal, because you obviously never used one.

Dear, I don't "think". I know. I can basically repeat my whole previous answer to you once again, mocking your "flawless" mathematics, blatant unawareness about basics and clear lack of knowledge about how to build and play "the easiest frame in the entire game". You pretty simply didn't even understand that I was pointing out to you what was stupidly wrong with what you've said.

So, actually, if you want my answer to your post, just re-read what you are quoting.

That's what I told you about idiocy, by the way.

But maybe you simply have troubles comprehending new information?

 

I don't really like talking with people who plainly ignore things they don't understand.

Sarcasm eh? Well, what definitly leaves you standing as the Noob i kinda left as option.

Surging dash IS excals one and only high performance build as it's using combo and red crit multiplicators on his WAVES, to be more specific slash dash generated waves as they are, in contrary to his EB waves, affected by these additional multipliers.

 

100%weaponx4stealthx2,5Power=1000%

80%x4stealthx4combox2,5powerx8crit=25.600%

25600>1000

You...may wanna learn how your frickin main works before starting an argument with sarcasm. What was that? idiocy? The irony...

Edited March 24, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[akira_him]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Sarcasm eh? Well, what definitly leaves you standing as the idiot i kinda left as option.

Surging dash IS excals one and only high performance build as it's using combo and red crit multiplicators on his WAVES, to be more specific slash dash generated waves as they are, in contrary to his EB waves, affected by these additional multipliers.

 

100%weaponx4stealthx2,5Power=1000%

100%x4stealthx4combox2,5powerx8crit=32000%

32000>1000

You...may wanna learn how your frickin main works before starting an argument with sarcasm. What was that? idiocy? Lmao.

strange, wiki says shadow debt mods doesn't affect EB at all, need to test it tonight

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

51 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

52 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Have you ever heard about "sarcasm"? Because that was it. I "also mentioned in my earlier posts" that Surging Dash build is incapable of scaling into late-game and doing significant damage. That's why I suggested you to craft yourself an Excal, because you obviously never used one.

Dear, I don't "think". I know. I can basically repeat my whole previous answer to you once again, mocking your "flawless" mathematics, blatant unawareness about basics and clear lack of knowledge about how to build and play "the easiest frame in the entire game". You pretty simply didn't even understand that I was pointing out to you what was stupidly wrong with what you've said.

So, actually, if you want my answer to your post, just re-read what you are quoting.

That's what I told you about idiocy, by the way.

But maybe you simply have troubles comprehending new information?

 

 

 

 

I don't like trolls,and yet here I am responding to you.

What exactly have you proven that gives you such confidence in your opinions? I see no factual information from anything you have said thus far and yet you act as though a point has been made. Even if your argument wasn't incoherent before, you lost credibility the second insults starting hurling out of your mouth.

How about contributing to the thread with a coherent counterargument instead of, whatever that is your doing.

 

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

10 minutes ago, akira_him said:

strange, wiki says shadow debt mods doesn't affect EB at all, need to test it tonight

Not the waves. It's a different story for physical hits and slash dash.

 

That's at least what many excals have been confirming for quite a while now. I'll also have to test it myself yet. DE just put the update up for cert so it won't be too long till i get the chance :)

Edited March 24, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Epsik-kun]

7 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

That's at least what many excals have been confirming for quite a while now. I'll also have to test it myself yet. DE just put the update up for cert so it won't be too long till i get the chance :)

So, let me recap this for a bit:

Basically, you are fully aware that you have no idea how EBlade and critical hit system work, yet you are feeling alright with using non existant "math" to prove your fundamentally wrong point? You are right, I shouldn't have started with sarcasm. Though, I kinda don't want to insult genuine retards by accounting you as a one of them, to be quite honest with you.

7 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Surging dash IS excals one and only high performance build as it's using combo and red crit multiplicators on his WAVES, to be more specific slash dash generated waves as they are, in contrary to his EB waves, affected by these additional multipliers.

I'll go back on my usual preferences and spoon-feed you a bit.

1) Slash Dash itself is incapable of critting;
2) Slash Dash generated waves can crit;
3) Slash Dash only generates waves if it's used with Exalted Blade out;
4) Activating Exalted Blade creates a separate Combo Counter that disables any Shadow Debt mods installed in the weapon.

This means, while you are in Exalted Blade, you won't have access to Blood Rush, Body Count and Maiming Strike. This also means, that Slash Dash is incapable of producing a red-critting attack under any circumstances

Secondly, I have no idea out of which part of your body you pulled out these numbers:

8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

100%weaponx4stealthx2,5Power=1000%

80%x4stealthx4combox2,5powerx8crit=25.600%

25600>1000

You...may wanna learn how your frickin main works before starting an argument with sarcasm. What was that? idiocy? The irony...

Because this isn't how any of it works. Honestly, I don't get why do you even try to use "math" when you don't have necessary information to make your calculations. You don't "math" with random numbers pulled out of nowhere.

I won't bother you with proper red-crit damage calculation formula, however, seeing as you'll be getting the update eventually - here's a bit of info, that isn't on the wiki: stealth, channeling and critical hit damage aren't direct multiplicatives to each other.

So, even if we were to assume Slash Dash is somehow able to make use of Shadow Debt melee mods, while EBlade itself isn't, that still won't work nearly as great as you are trying to fantasize about it.

To make maximum use of Blood Rush + Body Count combo, you'll have to give up over a half of your weapon base DPS. 
Then there's a direct relation between weapon's critical hit chance + multiplier and the combo effectiveness. EBlade has them at 15%, x2 respectively, which is pretty meh.
Lastly, when you are about to magically red crit with your Slash Dash wave, you have to remember, that Slash Dash itself is several times slower than EBlade's regular attacks and can't crit for living.
Hence, while your magical red crit Slash Dash wave could've done more damage than a regular wave (not by 25 times tho, it would barely do around x3~8 of a regular build's basic wave, depending on regular build's combo counter), were it to exist, overal DPS for tryiing to Slash Dash around would've dropped tremendously.

 

7 hours ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

I don't like trolls,and yet here I am responding to you.

>He must be trolling

Right.

7 hours ago, (PS4)KikoEschobar said:

What exactly have you proven that gives you such confidence in your opinions? I see no factual information from anything you have said thus far and yet you act as though a point has been made. Even if your argument wasn't incoherent before, you lost credibility the second insults starting hurling out of your mouth.

Knowledge. I know what I am talking about, you only think you do - that's the difference. Of course you don't see information in something you are repeatedly failing to comprehend. 

And, darling, stating the facts isn't an insult.

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

12 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

So, let me recap this for a bit:

Basically, you are fully aware that you have no idea how EBlade and critical hit system work, yet you are feeling alright with using non existant "math" to prove your fundamentally wrong point? You are right, I shouldn't have started with sarcasm. Though, I kinda don't want to insult genuine retards by accounting you as a one of them, to be quite honest with you.

I'll go back on my usual preferences and spoon-feed you a bit.

1) Slash Dash itself is incapable of critting;
2) Slash Dash generated waves can crit;
3) Slash Dash only generates waves if it's used with Exalted Blade out;
4) Activating Exalted Blade creates a separate Combo Counter that disables any Shadow Debt mods installed in the weapon.

This means, while you are in Exalted Blade, you won't have access to Blood Rush, Body Count and Maiming Strike. This also means, that Slash Dash is incapable of producing a red-critting attack under any circumstances

Secondly, I have no idea out of which part of your body you pulled out these numbers:

Because this isn't how any of it works. Honestly, I don't get why do you even try to use "math" when you don't have necessary information to make your calculations. You don't "math" with random numbers pulled out of nowhere.

I won't bother you with proper red-crit damage calculation formula, however, seeing as you'll be getting the update eventually - here's a bit of info, that isn't on the wiki: stealth, channeling and critical hit damage aren't direct multiplicatives to each other.

So, even if we were to assume Slash Dash is somehow able to make use of Shadow Debt melee mods, while EBlade itself isn't, that still won't work nearly as great as you are trying to fantasize about it.

To make maximum use of Blood Rush + Body Count combo, you'll have to give up over a half of your weapon base DPS. 
Then there's a direct relation between weapon's critical hit chance + multiplier and the combo effectiveness. EBlade has them at 15%, x2 respectively, which is pretty meh.
Lastly, when you are about to magically red crit with your Slash Dash wave, you have to remember, that Slash Dash itself is several times slower than EBlade's regular attacks and can't crit for living.
Hence, while your magical red crit Slash Dash wave could've done more damage than a regular wave (not by 25 times tho, it would barely do around x3~8 of a regular build's basic wave, depending on regular build's combo counter), were it to exist, overal DPS for tryiing to Slash Dash around would've dropped tremendously.

 

>He must be trolling

Right.

Knowledge. I know what I am talking about, you only think you do - that's the difference. Of course you don't see information in something you are repeatedly failing to comprehend. 

And, darling, stating the facts isn't an insult.

 

This is where you are fundamentaly at fault.

 

EB wasn't completely excludet from body count, only the waves were. This was what many excal playes have been confirming for quite a while now. Simply equipping body count and striking in melee range should confirm this. The waves have a seperate mechanic from excals melee strikes which doesn't scale off and don't generate combo (you should at least know that much).

Now, the waves generated from slash dash don't operate on the wave but on the melee mechanic which is indeed affected by body count. This is what makes surging dash superior to mindlessly spamming waves.

But why do i waste time here. Go ahead. Try it.

[Epsik-kun]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

EB wasn't completely excludet from body count, only the waves were. This was what many excal playes have been confirming for quite a while now.

I think I was extremely clear this time. Let me try this again.

This is wrong. I already told you how this works. I have no idea about which "many excal players" are you talking about, but this statement is wrong. 

And I don't need to "try it". I spent hours testing Shadow Debt mods since the day they were released. I know how they work. 
Try to guess, what was the very first thing I've tried to do when I got myself Blood Rush and Body Count. Hint: I have over 500 hours on my Excal.

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

 This is what makes surging dash superior to mindlessly spamming waves.

And I even went out of my way and explained you why this wouldn't be any "superior" if it were to work. Why do I even try?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

7 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

I think I was extremely clear this time. Let me try this again.

This is wrong. I already told you how this works. I have no idea about which "many excal players" are you talking about, but this statement is wrong. 

And I don't need to "try it". I spent hours testing Shadow Debt mods since the day they were released. I know how they work. 
Try to guess, what was the very first thing I've tried to do when I got myself Blood Rush and Body Count. Hint: I have over 500 hours on my Excal.

And I even went out of my way and explained you why this wouldn't be any "superior" if it were to work. Why do I even try?

Can't they or won't they? 

I'm taking a guess, you equipped it, spammed waves and deeuquipped the mods.

 

Sry mate but your word has less weight for me then the confirmation of quite a few players in multiple threads since these mods made theyr way into the game. But hey, i'll be able to test it myself in a few days. Would be sad if it isn't the case tho...this is the only mechanic which would actually be able to get close to saryn...

[Epsik-kun]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Can't they or won't they? 

I'm taking a guess, you equipped it, spammed waves and deeuquipped the mods.

 

Sry mate but your word has less weight for me then the confirmation of quite a few players in multiple threads since these mods made theyr way into the game. But hey, i'll be able to test it myself in a few days. Would be sad if it isn't the case tho...this is the only mechanic which would actually be able to get close to saryn...

Well, I guess I'll just leave you to your own stupidity then. I tried and failed. How can I expect you to understand the concept of late-game Excal, if you fail to comprehend elementary things?

[akira_him]

the thing I concern about dash build is won't him die when the invincibility wears off after the dash is over ending up you are in the middle of a group of enemy. Naramon I am guessing?

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, akira_him said:

the thing I concern about dash build is won't him die when the invincibility wears off after the dash is over ending up you are in the middle of a group of enemy. Naramon I am guessing?

It's always Naramon if we are talking about non-Valkyr doing T4S against enemy level 200+.

Funny thing however, you can't refresh your Shadow Step during Slash Dash, even if some waves crit, so if you get locked onto several targets you might end up being dead meat as soon as Slash Dash ends.