Ash Rework (Straw poll)

[(XBOX)Drvnzer]

6 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

I can imagine You been playing for a few months maybe a year at most?

Remember You are on XB1 Im on PC, I been here since 2013 took a break came back Hard core in 2014, I seen so many issues with Ashs Bladestorm. I can guarantee You what I am saying is valid, not something Im making up

ok. So since you've played the more than me u know more about ash 

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

You know you got my vote, Killa.

Well done. +1

[AKKILLA]

8 minutes ago, (XB1)Stage DRGR said:

ok. So since you've played the more than me u know more about ash 

Not necessarily, Im only human. Not making it seem like im better then You. I just made a statement that Bladestorm has all the bugs I mentioned above.

You might be a better PvP player then Me. I suck at PvP and You may rekt Me to Noobie Hood but then again. I mentioned Im not a PvP player.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

12 minutes ago, (XB1)Stage DRGR said:

ok. So since you've played the more than me u know more about ash 

Not necessarily, as Killa said, but in video games as in life, generally, xp comes from time in. So, it wouldn't hurt to listen to him as he is a PC player and has been around a while.

Just saying.

[(XBOX)Drvnzer]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Not necessarily, as Killa said, but in video games as in life, generally, xp comes from time in. So, it wouldn't hurt to listen to him as he is a PC player and has been around a while.

Just saying.

If u say so

[AKKILLA]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Not necessarily, as Killa said, but in video games as in life, generally, xp comes from time in. So, it wouldn't hurt to listen to him as he is a PC player and has been around a while.

Just saying.

That doesnt mean Im better then anyone. I love all of you guys. GR13V4NC3 for Your persistance and support with Ash ideas. God I wish You were on PC :(

Id gift You 1,000 plat and force you to Join My clan xD

Dragon Black for nailing the Fuma Shuriken idea on point. I freakin Love it.

Your Ninjutsu Ultimate and Smoke Dash are beautiful ideas

Smoke Dash? ^

Everyone here has there own ideas too contribute to Ash

[aerosoul1337]

4 hours ago, Hemmo67 said:

well i did not own ash untill he got the clones to attack with him so no i never experienced the old camera also i think u ment healer aura not the disruptor aura

disruptor aura doesn't give dmg resistance x)

Simply try to kill a level 135 Disruptor Eximus in the simulacrum with your blade storm if you don't believe me.

 

Healer is different, it provides CC immunity and absorbs 90% damage from allies and heals itself.

Disruptor aura drains energy with attack and reduces all damage from ability by 90%.

But disruptor aura does cover itself and other ancients.

There were several abilities (peacemaker, miasma, hysteria, javelin and exalted blade) that ignore this aura but it was fixed recently (U18.X).

It will take forever for peacemaker to kill high level infested crowd if there is a Disruptor around.

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by aerosoul1337

[AKKILLA]

21 minutes ago, aerosoul1337 said:

Simply try to kill a level 135 Disruptor Eximus in the simulacrum with your blade storm if you don't believe me.

 

Healer is different, it provides CC immunity and absorbs 90% damage from allies and heals itself.

Disruptor aura drains energy with attack and reduces all damage from ability by 90%.

But disruptor aura does cover itself and other ancients.

There were several abilities (peacemaker, miasma, hysteria, javelin and exalted blade) that ignore this aura but it was fixed recently (U18.X).

It will take forever for peacemaker to kill high level infested crowd if there is a Disruptor around.

 

Try Bladestorming a Sortie Juggernaut xD

I think thats enough said there lol

I ended up in a endless BS combo and for some strange reason I was able to walk around and move but it would constantly reset me back to the Jugg with these clones slapping him with these bad animations i dislike. I think its funny tho as it looks silly and its endless and does no damage to the jugg.

[aerosoul1337]

2 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Whats the point of playing a Game when You have a terrible animation sequence and camera angles, or just the abilities full of bugs period?

Yeah we are here to kill but with some semblance of style this isnt Ninja Selfie time but come on. Its disappointing, Bladestorm has too many  flaws to not ignore it.

Falling thru tile sets, invincible floating bugs, idle clone bugs, the glitch possibilities are endless.

A Stance Bladestorm is the way. No drain on teleport casts and synergy with his abilities while in BS

Yes those bugs are true.

And those took DE 2 years to fix.

Before that, I simply can NOT play Ash in the void missions.

It is suicide, you fall off map quite common, and no, there were no unstuck function and you will die instantly.

If you try to revive, you will die instantly again.

 

[AKKILLA]

1 minute ago, aerosoul1337 said:

Yes those bugs are true.

And those took DE 2 years to fix.

Before that, I simply can NOT play Ash in the void missions.

It is suicide, you fall off map quite common, and no, there were no unstuck function and you will die instantly.

If you try to revive, you will die instantly again.

 

$hit funny till You lose a Life xD

#IMDEAD 

#NOREVIVES

 

[aerosoul1337]

6 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Try Bladestorming a Sortie Juggernaut xD

I think thats enough said there lol

I ended up in a endless BS combo and for some strange reason I was able to walk around and move but it would constantly reset me back to the Jugg with these clones slapping him with these bad animations i dislike. I think its funny tho as it looks silly and its endless and does no damage to the jugg.

You know why you can NOT bladestorm a Manic?

When manic just released, you can bladestorm it but it goes invincible soon and triggers an infinite bladestorm loop glitch.

This used to happen when you bladestorm Alad V or Zenluka as well.

Now you cannot bladestorm a Manic, but you can bladestorm other boss for 1 hit only.

[AKKILLA]

18 minutes ago, aerosoul1337 said:

You know why you can NOT bladestorm a Manic?

When manic just released, you can bladestorm it but it goes invincible soon and triggers an infinite bladestorm loop glitch.

This used to happen when you bladestorm Alad V or Zenluka as well.

Now you cannot bladestorm a Manic, but you can bladestorm other boss for 1 hit only.

This is the reason I made the last thread, is it Me or am I the only retard that sees this but do Manics not behave like Ashs Bladestorm?

I can link wikia bahavior to prove My point but before I made this research I noticed it in game helping a new clan member farm for Regular Ash and I noticed Manics in fact act like Ash the Frame they Harbor as a drop chance

 

Spoiler

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Manic

Dashing in for quick strikes before falling back to the shadows, the Grineer Manic is difficult to catch and deadly to ignore. 

Manics are capable of cloaking for periods of time to close distance across open ground

 When cloaked, they will be able to move very fast and erratically teleport in an unpredictable manner.

A Manic's attacks can inflict an extremely deadly  Slash proc  Any Warframes without extensive health reserves can easily fall victim to this attack, as the bleed DoT ignores armor.

capable of cloaking to close in on foes and having an ability to Stealth Kill unsuspecting players (the player must be facing away from the Manic to have this happen).

 

 

I try to base all My info off of whats already here, the link and copy pasted info is directly from wikia Behavior of Manics to compare with Ashs behavior. These elusive pesky runts in all sense of the word act like Ash imo what do You think?

 

If You seen this vid You cant tell Me these lil fukers arent similar to Ash. Maybe base Bladestorm off this? xD

Edited March 19, 2016 by AKKILLA

[xLordKogax]

#1thousandCuts

#BestAshFarm

#MeleeOnly

#ManicSlashProcs

 

[AKKILLA]

21 hours ago, xLordKogax said:

#1thousandCuts

#BestAshFarm

#MeleeOnly

#ManicSlashProcs

 

Nice to see You back around, what took You so long? lol

[Fast_98]

I like the idea the that Ash 4 is a stance but I also want Ash to still have his aoe.

[AKKILLA]

37 minutes ago, Fast_98 said:

I like the idea the that Ash 4 is a stance but I also want Ash to still have his aoe.

Smoke Screen choke cloud is what you want then 

[AKKILLA]

Hello Tenno

I have made plenty threads with details focused on Ash reworks, mainly for Bladestorm and added some QoL to his other abilities. Im here to offer fixes that I think can be done in the next hotfix. Simple touch ups before even reworking him.

This can serve as a way to analyze what the issuse are and can be done to fix for future reworks.

I will offer the following concepts for Ash.

SHURIKEN

Scale shuriken with Melee mods for higher level content.

Add 2/4/4/6 more shuriken 

SMOKE SCREEN

add a small AoE Cloud that chokes enemies inside opening Finishers

TELEPORT

allow synergy with Shuriken, casting teleport after tagging an enemy with shuriken should allow you to teleport to the last enemy you had line of sight on tagged by shuriken as long as they still suffer the bleed DoT

BLADESTORM

Scale off of melee damage mods

add a toggle to cancel mid animations

enemies currently under attack by ashs clones can take damage by allies, not enemies under attack by Real Ash

Pan out the Camera like Volts Speed to see animations better

 

These are just ideas i think can be done and added within a week if DE really wish to make a moments changed and implement to soo how it changes the flow for Ash in Game and adds a interesting support mechanic for our poor Greedy Ninja.

Hope these concepts can change something for the good momentarily 

Gimme Your feed back on this

Thank You 

[CrudShuzKong]

This must be your 3rd or 4th ash rework post im reading and commenting on and you still dont remeber my name... :)

• Shuriken

This is, as all the nuking abilities in the game, really hard to balance, because no matter how you increase damage (charge up, weapon mods) it will always become stupidly powerful in lower levels due to how scaling currently works in this game. In my opinion the only way to increase damage output in higher levels, without making powers too powerful in the early game, is to increase the amount of enemies affected and maybe even scale off of enemies affected since the amount of enemies grouping up increases nicely as misions progress. So for example a power that bounces between enemies, but can hit each enemy only once scales really well with the amount of enemies present, but will still fall off due to armor scaling (volt's shock).

Adding more shuriken would allow you to hit more enemies which means better against big groups, seems good.

Adding scaling with melee mods does not make much sense (no connection between your sword/hammer/staff and the shuriken) unless your melee weapon is a glaive, which would be quite a good choice for increasing flight speed and adding bounces to the shuriken. Forcing Ash to use a throwing melee on the other hand is pretty stupid considering we want to have his other abilities scale with melee mods as well. The other kind of weapons similar to the shuriken are the throwing secondaries, but scaling off of all secondary mods might be overkill (especially in light of the previously discussed lower levels) and there are way too few throwing secondary exclusive mods that would make much of a difference.

An example of well scaling rework that i can come up with right now, would be to have a fixed number of shurikens that all bounce to each enemy in a group applying a small armor debuff on hit. This would mean that in a group of less than 4 enemies some shuriken would fail to find a target and go to waste, while the others still do decent damage. In groups of 4 or more enemies all of them will take full damage from each shuriken while losing armor brfore the next one hits. So this power will do decent damage on all levels falling off mostly through enemy health pool (thanks to increasing enemy numbers it would bring more damage per energy used later in the game as most aoe does). Also it is really clunky design and propably way too forced and complicated to get implemented.
Other possiblilities for stacking up against groups would be explosives or gas clouds that stack if enemies are cose enough together (again doesnt fit Ash too well).

• Smokescreen

Having another aoe can opener for finishers might be a bit much, so maybe just increase the aoe and have enemies inside walk around unalerted and blinded like mirage ultimate (without opening them up (possible augment)) until they happen to stumble out. Also this power currently suffers greatly from long casting delay.

• Teleport

Nice QoL change, but i doubt it changes too much in the way you play.

Also I would love to be able to hold down 3 to initiate instant finisher after the teleport as another QoL feature (similar to Inaros devouring).

• Bladestorm

I get what you are going for here, but this will noth change the missing interactivity in Bladestorm, being able to stop it is only QoL not interactivity. Stopping whole rooms of enemies from becoming invincible as an absolutely nescessary change that I want to see regardless of how the rework turns out in the end. Increasing the Scaling is as mentioned in the shuriken paragraph not much of a solution, but rather a way of pushing the problem to slightly later in the game (also there might not be rules in place as to how finisher damage scales off of elemental mods and such). The camera pan would be nice, if the ability really stays in its current form (even though it would have to be made in a different way as Volt's because speed doesnt move the camera, but rather warps the FoV to make it look faster than it is).

The biggest problem of this ability is that you can actually use it pretty much without fear of rebuttal, and are able to take your hands off the keyboard while watching it go. The latter might be ok in 1v1 beat'em up games, but in fast paced, cooperative games it feels out of place.

Also i do not think an assassin themed frame should go berserk against platoons of enemies, that is how Ubisoft assassins work, not real (=interesting) ones and ninjas. I would rather have him pick of the head of the snake (VIP enemies such as eximus/bombards/healers) and leave the rest of the enemies open for your team or weapons to mop up.

 

Sorry for the huge wall of text, but thats pretty much all i could come up with right now condensed into one post. I hope it gives you some insight into what i feel should change, and the problems that tend to come up.

Cheers, Kong

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, CrudShuzKong said:

 

• Smokescreen

Having another aoe can opener for finishers might be a bit much, so maybe just increase the aoe and have enemies inside walk around unalerted and blinded like mirage ultimate (without opening them up (possible augment)) until they happen to stumble out. Also this power currently suffers greatly from long casting delay.

• Teleport

Nice QoL change, but i doubt it changes too much in the way you play.

 

Also i do not think an assassin themed frame should go berserk against platoons of enemies, that is how Ubisoft assassins work, not real (=interesting) ones and ninjas. 

You have an interesting yet strange Logic

You made a statement saying Ninjas in video games shouldnt go Berserker? That Ash should be like a Real Ninja? Since when do Real life Ninjas go invisible, and Teleport at will?

Heck Real Ninjas use shurikens to distract and escape not to attack and use in open combat.

Well those are just ideaologies and opinions on a topic that doesnt matter because this isnt a Realistic Ninja game so its ok for Ash to go Berserker, I think Your issue is with the Kill steal Bladestorm provides and I understand Your grief.

I press 4 and enemies within a radius are automatically Marked Red and will be under Bladestorms attack. I think the best way to fix that would be a Stance Bladestorm rework, it will make Bladestorm not only interactive but Ash and his clones wont be exactly everywhere at once taking everyones kills. Stance Bladestorm will force Ash players to work for every single kill. This proposed idea is concepts that can be added in game rather soon and doesnt require too much work. Smoke Screen cloud can happen as we ave other frames that are designed to leave a similar cloud concept like Embers accelerate Wukongs cloud walker and Saryns Contagion Cloud leaves small cloud radial AoEs.

Another thing I wanted to compare to wat you disagreed on is how You stated that Real Ninjas shouldnt go berserker but think smoke screen shouldnt have an AoE cloud sounds illogical to Me. How could You not see how great this idea is not only mechanic wise but as a whole PERIOD this will be the best idea to implement in Ashs kit and tbh idk why DE didnt implement this to begin with for Smoke Screen,

Being Realistic here a smoke bomb leaves up a cloud the smoke doesnt just automatically disappear in a second, this would make sense for Ash completely cuz Ash is a Ninja and ninjas use smoke bombs and a smoke bomb that provides some CC in the form of opening Finishers which is what Ash already does would be Perfect and only add to his Lethality as a Finisher Warframe.

Teleport is a great ability but if were talking logic and reality it is not what Real Ninjas do. This is just an analogy to your statement tho. and adding another function to teleport besides just forcing players to pin point aim at enemies is a nice addition.

I do remember You but You were in my earlier Threads. You have Your ideas and I understand the main issue you have is Bladestorm Kill Stealing from You lol

allow enemies who are being attacked by Ash to recieve damage, Ashs targets shouldnt tho this will narrow down how many enemies can be killed and the targets being attacked by ash clones are quiet notable since his clones are holographic

 

[CrudShuzKong]

18 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

You have an interesting yet strange Logic

You made a statement saying Ninjas in video games shouldnt go Berserker? That Ash should be like a Real Ninja? Since when do Real life Ninjas go invisible, and Teleport at will?

Heck Real Ninjas use shurikens to distract and escape not to attack and use in open combat.

Well those are just ideaologies and opinions on a topic that doesnt matter because this isnt a Realistic Ninja game so its ok for Ash to go Berserker, I think Your issue is with the Kill steal Bladestorm provides and I understand Your grief.

I press 4 and enemies within a radius are automatically Marked Red and will be under Bladestorms attack. I think the best way to fix that would be a Stance Bladestorm rework, it will make Bladestorm not only interactive but Ash and his clones wont be exactly everywhere at once taking everyones kills. Stance Bladestorm will force Ash players to work for every single kill. This proposed idea is concepts that can be added in game rather soon and doesnt require too much work. Smoke Screen cloud can happen as we ave other frames that are designed to leave a similar cloud concept like Embers accelerate Wukongs cloud walker and Saryns Contagion Cloud leaves small cloud radial AoEs.

Another thing I wanted to compare to wat you disagreed on is how You stated that Real Ninjas shouldnt go berserker but think smoke screen shouldnt have an AoE cloud sounds illogical to Me. How could You not see how great this idea is not only mechanic wise but as a whole PERIOD this will be the best idea to implement in Ashs kit and tbh idk why DE didnt implement this to begin with for Smoke Screen,

Being Realistic here a smoke bomb leaves up a cloud the smoke doesnt just automatically disappear in a second, this would make sense for Ash completely cuz Ash is a Ninja and ninjas use smoke bombs and a smoke bomb that provides some CC in the form of opening Finishers which is what Ash already does would be Perfect and only add to his Lethality as a Finisher Warframe.

Teleport is a great ability but if were talking logic and reality it is not what Real Ninjas do. This is just an analogy to your statement tho. and adding another function to teleport besides just forcing players to pin point aim at enemies is a nice addition.

I do remember You but You were in my earlier Threads. You have Your ideas and I understand the main issue you have is Bladestorm Kill Stealing from You lol

allow enemies who are being attacked by Ash to recieve damage, Ashs targets shouldnt tho this will narrow down how many enemies can be killed and the targets being attacked by ash clones are quiet notable since his clones are holographic

 

Why does anyone always bring up killsteals.. I dont care about kills and such crap, i want to have fun playing the game, it is COOP so all that counts is beating the mission.

You are just as childish and narrowminded as most of the other Bladestorm-defenders. There isn't even a point in counting kills, id rather have my impact felt by having teammates thank me for my choices or inventive use of skills rather than going to the show-off forums to boast at the number of kills i made...

I just dont want to stop roasting a platoon of corrupted with my amprex just because an Ash in the next room decided to push a button.

Also i specifically pointed out which parts of my post where more of a taste choice than anything and assassins are not berserkers. On the other hand romantizised ninjas were know to reach places thought to be impenetrable, thus sparking myths and tales about teleportation and incredible jumping skills. Do not challenge me in japanese mythology or folklore, you will draw the short straw here.

Edited March 23, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[CrudShuzKong]

also i do not quite understand your point: You want Bladestorem to stay exactly the same (with some QoL and less disruptive) in your rework idea here, yet when answering me you talk about it being a stance ultimate (which makes it sound like you dont really know what "stance" means). Unless you are proposing 2 entirely different reworks at exactly the same time which makes no sense unless you dont care which one you'll get in the end...

The only 3 ultimates that i can think of that deserve the name "stance-ultimate" are Valkyr, Excal and Wukong, as those 3 are the only ones that spawn a melee weapon with a stance attached to it. And if you want Ash to get one of those, then welcome to the club.

Edited March 23, 2016 by CrudShuzKong

[AKKILLA]

5 minutes ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Why does anyone always bring up killsteals.. I dont care about kills and such crap, i want to have fun playing the game, it is COOP so all that counts is beating the mission.

You are just as childish and narrowminded as most of the other Bladestorm-defenders. There isn't even a point in counting kills, id rather have my impact felt by having teammates thank me for my choices or inventive use of skills rather than going to the show-off forums to boast at the number of kills i made...

I just dont want to stop roasting a platoon of corrupted with my amprex just because an Ash in the next room decided to push a button.

Also i specifically pointed out which parts of my post where more of a taste choice than anything and assassins are not berserkers. On the other hand romantizised ninjas were know to reach places thought to be impenetrable, thus sparking myths and tales about teleportation and incredible jumping skills. Do not challenge me in japanese mythology or folklore, you will draw the short straw here.

You know I was hoping to keep this a mature debate but You just proved Your the Childish NarrowMinded Self centered individual here.

Dont do that Bra, dont categorize Me and slap Me with that title that is only drawing in bad blood and Im not a Kid im an adult dont judge a person over a screen keep it professional dont get all in Your feelings over a comment thats pathetic on Your behalf. I can categorize You and all that will do is draw you to get in your feelings and find a way to get back at Me.

Please Grow up.

Now back on subject.

You can discuss Ninja history all You want You still contradicted Yourself and I still can draw the longer end of the stick here there is nothing You can tell Me about Ninjas and any Ninja game draws inspiration from Ninja Lore feats that have been accomplished and are merely facades of what Ninjas really do, like Clones per instance.

Why is the myth of Ninja clones and were it come about? Ninjas roll in squads carrying out certain missions and since they all wear similar uniform they take the form or draw the inspiration that that can summon clones and replicate themselves.

As for Ninjas not going Berserker logic...

Dont discuss Ninja Logic in Ninja Video Games. Your Logic has no logic inside of Waframe anything is possible, we are Futuristic Space Ninjas, this isnt Tenchu/Assassins Creed or Metal Gear/Splinter Cell. Yes I grew up playing these games and they are great but this isnt that this is Warframe. I will agree with You in one instance and thats the fact Ashs Bladestorm does need change and I explained how it can be changed and not in this thread I explained it in descriptive detail here and a few of the Mass murder press 4 Ash players disagreed because they stated it will make ash slow and he will lose his kill streak.

Sounds just as naive as You are being right now. I careless about Kill streaks I just mentioned that and in a respectful way because I have noted you state that in several occassions and I think thats  your beef with Bladestorm mainly is the kill steals.

Embers World on Fire will destroy Your kills have you thought about that? Zephyrs Tornadoes makes enemies unable to Bladestorm have You noticed that? So does Mags Pull and Nezhas Divine Spears, I cant cast Bladestorm on these enemies under these abilities effects and I dont cry about it or post a thread on it, I just shoot them or Bladestorm an open enemy.

Please lets keep this resppectful I sense a negative reply coming from You every response. Im here to discuss abilities (ASH) not get into a MMA match on a thread. Stae Your opinion, ideas, concepts w.e but in a mature manner since You claim to not be childish and narrowminded, if not just move on to another thread

[SoulHunter2008]

3 hours ago, CrudShuzKong said:

Why does anyone always bring up killsteals.. I dont care about kills and such crap, i want to have fun playing the game, it is COOP so all that counts is beating the mission.

You are just as childish and narrowminded as most of the other Bladestorm-defenders. There isn't even a point in counting kills, id rather have my impact felt by having teammates thank me for my choices or inventive use of skills rather than going to the show-off forums to boast at the number of kills i made...

I just dont want to stop roasting a platoon of corrupted with my amprex just because an Ash in the next room decided to push a button.

sorry I'm butting in here but Blade Storm does not extend pass the room (the target) it was cast in. (if this has changed I'm not sure when wiki does not state it but I do remember it to be fact at one point in time)

[CrudShuzKong]

Well I was not the one accusing the other for whinign about killsteal, just saying...

Other than that, you specifically asked for my feedback on your idea and i took the time to write up a detailed analysis of it, so you can see possible issues and think about solving them. In return you go around other threads calling me a whiny crybaby for not being able to deal wiht killstealers. If anyone of us needs to work on respect it is you.

That being said I do not liek the design of WoF and Tornadoes either, but i dont encounter those nearly as often as BS spamming Ashes. Also with Ash being up for debate first, I will try to find better designs for him before anything else.

[CrudShuzKong]

2 minutes ago, SoulHunter2008 said:

sorry I'm butting in here but Blade Storm does not extend pass the room (the target) it was cast in. (if this has changed I'm not sure when wiki does not state it but I do remember it to be fact at one point in time)

It will not leave the tile, but if one tile contains other rooms, you will see ash popping in.

Edited March 23, 2016 by CrudShuzKong