Ash Rework (Straw poll)

[AKKILLA]

2 hours ago, Magnulast said:

All I hope is that the abusers do not continue to abuse the game using cheap builds, like saryn press 4 to win.

You cant stop that, thats like claiming I hope drugs and crime end for good. lol

This aint Minority Report. While it may disappoint You it may be fun for another. Thats what variety is about, we have a wide variety of frames weapons mods companions for differentiating tastes play styles and mission types. Dont You think if everyone played the same it would be bland and dull?

[Magnulast]

14 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

You cant stop that, thats like claiming I hope drugs and crime end for good. lol

This aint Minority Report. While it may disappoint You it may be fun for another. Thats what variety is about, we have a wide variety of frames weapons mods companions for differentiating tastes play styles and mission types. Dont You think if everyone played the same it would be bland and dull?

Well, these changes shall end cheap grind methods...per frame.

And make grind methods via a team.

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, Magnulast said:

Well, these changes shall end cheap grind methods...per frame.

And make grind methods via a team.

what you mean? 

Currently Focus Farming is only viable via team anyway

[Magnulast]

7 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

what you mean? 

Currently Focus Farming is only viable via team anyway

I still think it's viable solo, however I could be wrong.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

On 3/16/2016 at 6:26 PM, Gurpgork said:

Forgive me if I was unclear. My problem with your proposal wasn't that it lacked interactivity, but more that stance ults are getting really repetitive and generic.

We already have Hysteria, Exalted Blade, and Primal Fury, which would be the same ability if it weren't for a couple little bells and whistles given to each of them (Hysteria's god mode, Exalted Blade's waves, Primal Fury's reach). What's worse is that not only are these the only things that make them different from each other, but they're also what separates them from regular melee combat-- Without these extra effects, they'd just be regular melee weapons, with astronomically better base stats. There's also little to no reason to ever toggle them off.

To be fair, Blade Storm right now can be boiled down to a radial nuke with a target limit, but I don't really approve of trading one generic copy/paste ult for another. Taking Exalted Blade as a template and giving it a ninja-themed atmosphere won't add anything new to the game, and would really feel like a missed opportunity.

This is similar to how I feel about it.

I think Excal, Valk, and Wukong are fine as they are, but if Ash is going to have one, it would have to be different from all of these. I don't think frame reworks should just be copying ideas that were given to other frames. As soon as Ivara came out, everyone wanted a toggled invisibility and multi-power abilities like her arrows. When Excal came out, the forums were loaded with "Give my favorite frame exalted X weapon". That's boring.

My major complaints about bladestorm are the nauseating camera and the weird animations. I see lots of suggestions about making it more powerful and also having it buff all of ash's other abilities in the process. That will only be temporary fun while you're giggling about how you just killed whatever level enemy, but it won't make ash a better frame to actually play. People want those arm blades as a weapon they can just use, but I'd rather see an entirely new skill with some utility to it. I can't think of anything for that right now, but I only just started this cup of coffee.

 

[AKKILLA]

54 minutes ago, (PS4)ElZilcho said:

This is similar to how I feel about it.

I think Excal, Valk, and Wukong are fine as they are, but if Ash is going to have one, it would have to be different from all of these. I don't think frame reworks should just be copying ideas that were given to other frames. As soon as Ivara came out, everyone wanted a toggled invisibility and multi-power abilities like her arrows. When Excal came out, the forums were loaded with "Give my favorite frame exalted X weapon". That's boring.

My major complaints about bladestorm are the nauseating camera and the weird animations. I see lots of suggestions about making it more powerful and also having it buff all of ash's other abilities in the process. That will only be temporary fun while you're giggling about how you just killed whatever level enemy, but it won't make ash a better frame to actually play. People want those arm blades as a weapon they can just use, but I'd rather see an entirely new skill with some utility to it. I can't think of anything for that right now, but I only just started this cup of coffee.

 

Well idk what suggestions You may be referriing to but if we are speaking of My concept it is simple and plain.

Bladestorm is My main focus and i implement his entire kit in Bladestorm making al his abilities better and scaling those that deal damage thru melee mods(Shuriken+Bladestorm)

I even mentioned it a million times i kinda feel like a broken record.

-Scale shuriken off melee mods

-apply Death Marks to Slash/Bleed DoT for synergy with Teleport (similar to Blazing Chakram)

-Apply an AoE choke cloud to Smoke Screen (Crowd Control)

-Enemies in Cloud are Choked/Stunned and open to Finisher Kills

-enemies in cloud stunned are applied Death Mark and synergy with Teleport

-Bladestorm interactivity (toggled on off)

I honestly dont see why people comment here and not notice or realize all i have offered but this thread has no rework suggestions just basically calling out to players and see how everyone feels about Bladestorm and reworking it.

Look I and a few others have worked on this concept pretty hard and for months now, even before Primal Fury. I see ppl mentioning everyone wants to copy and paste but iirc Koga and others have offered a stance ulti for Bladestorm way long ago. DE just smacked us with Primal Fury and I felt it was a mockery to see it after we suggested this for Bladestorm and now the community laughs back at us with Redundancy.

Lets be real here every Warframe is a copy paste of each other and Warframe PERIOD is a Huge Copy paste of plenty games dont make Me bring out Pictures but i will say that our Parkour system is a Copy paste of Ninja Gaiden in a sense. Enemies like MoAs are copy paste from Metal Gears Geckos. Zanuka is Copy Paste from metal Gears Crying Wolf. Need I say more? I can go on all day but thats not the point.

Anyone and everyone here is a copy and paste of each others playstyles and builds, noone here is original we all follow the same trends and we all use the same metas, some may innovate and try something new and not know someone else out there already tried it.

A Stance Bladestorm would not be a Exalted Blade copy You guys just clearly dont like or agree with Stance Ulti's PERIOD lets be blood raw here stop sugar coatin $hit.

Yeah EB is OP and can annoy You Elite players, as well as Hysteria, I dont mind it. Im not an elitist and I careless about Your kill streaks. I could enter a mission and press 4 all day with ash and get most kills and guess what? Its BORING redundant, annoying and EVERY Ash in this community does it. I barely ever see Smoke Shadow Ash builds.

I never see Safeguard Switch Loki's, Muzzle Flash Mesas, Calm Frenzy Equinoxs, etc.

Whats that tell You? Everyone in this community is a follower, yall dont think for yall selves. You just hop on Warframe open up Youtube and follow Streamers guides.

I would say a small percent of Warframe plaayers dont follow the norms and create there own builds and play stuff others dont.

All the Ashs I see build for Power Strength and negative Duration. I have yet to see a Maxed Duration+Efficiency Ash in community like LordKoga and he prides his build and takes Smoke Shadow all the time.

I seen Koga run a Muzzle Flash Mesa and some guy in the squad raged on him because of the flash CC and being annoying. Guess what? It worked, Koga can play a nice Mesa and I learned alot from him.

Just because Im not a Famous Youtuber or streamer or Founder people automatically discredit My ideas? You cant judge someone because of there profile pic or Mastery Rank. 

Just My opinion and take on the matter and what I see in Warframes community. 

[Gurpgork]

6 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Look I and a few others have worked on this concept pretty hard and for months now, even before Primal Fury.

"This concept was around before Primal Fury." So what? Primal Fury's in the game already, and Primal Fury feels like a superfluous copy of Exalted Blade, too. 

21 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

You guys just clearly dont like or agree with Stance Ulti's PERIOD lets be blood raw here stop sugar coatin $hit.

Contrary to popular belief, it is possible to have too much of a good thing. What I don't like or agree with is the weapon ult trend. I've heard stance ult proposals for Oberon, Ash, Saryn, and even Nekros, who doesn't have anything in his baseline kit that implies he should be a melee frame. Not to mention that these abilities are seriously overtuned. Exalted Blade outdamages almost every gun in the game, can attack through walls, and doesn't consume ammo. Just a minuscule amount of energy. 

I would much rather see an Ash rework bring something completely new to the game, just like the Excalibur rework did, rather than drawing from a bunch of existing ideas. 

12 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Everyone in this community is a follower, yall dont think for yall selves. You just hop on Warframe open up Youtube and follow Streamers guides.

Why are you making this personal? I didn't say anything personal, and ElZilcho certainly didn't say anything personal, either. So why are you responding with something personal?

15 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Just because Im not a Famous Youtuber or streamer or Founder people automatically discredit My ideas? You cant judge someone because of there profile pic or Mastery Rank.  

Now that's definitely not true. I'm not judging you for anything. I simply don't like your idea, and that is the one and only reason I'm disagreeing with your idea. There is absolutely nothing personal about that. I don't know your mastery rank, and I honestly don't give a damn. What I know is that you posted an idea on the forum, and I didn't like it. So I spoke my mind, just like you spoke yours. I am just as well within my rights to disagree with your idea as you are to post it. 

[Xarathos_The_Judge]

12 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Im sure we all have different taste, but if You think Ninja Gaidens Ultimate Technique not better visually then Bladestorms then idk what to say. Bladestorm and Ryu's UT are very similar in every sense, i assume you saying that was boring also says You think Bladestorm is boring?

Lets be honest Bladestorm looks way worse, something may get the job done but it should be also appealing, not just terrible aesthetically. This visual isnt fully as important as the functionality and function wise we already know Bladestorm offers only a waiting period.

I wouldnt mind if they updated its visuals (animation+Camera angle) then add a Toggle to end the madness of High level endless Bladestorms would currently make a world a difference dont You think?

Actually they aren't to similar in my opinion.  With Bladestorm, you hit the target just enough to take them out of the fight.  NG just kinda seems like you're needlessly wailing away on some unfortunate mook.

You might've noticed I already stated in this thread that I would be in favor of more animations and an abilty to toggle Bladestorm off mid-murder as well as a few other quality of life changes.  However; these are all small tweaks, not a major overhaul that completely butchers his playstyle.

52 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Well idk what suggestions You may be referriing to but if we are speaking of My concept it is simple and plain.

Bladestorm is My main focus and i implement his entire kit in Bladestorm making al his abilities better and scaling those that deal damage thru melee mods(Shuriken+Bladestorm)

I even mentioned it a million times i kinda feel like a broken record.

-Scale shuriken off melee mods

-apply Death Marks to Slash/Bleed DoT for synergy with Teleport (similar to Blazing Chakram)

-Apply an AoE choke cloud to Smoke Screen (Crowd Control)

-Enemies in Cloud are Choked/Stunned and open to Finisher Kills

-enemies in cloud stunned are applied Death Mark and synergy with Teleport

-Bladestorm interactivity (toggled on off)

I honestly dont see why people comment here and not notice or realize all i have offered but this thread has no rework suggestions just basically calling out to players and see how everyone feels about Bladestorm and reworking it.

Look I and a few others have worked on this concept pretty hard and for months now, even before Primal Fury. I see ppl mentioning everyone wants to copy and paste but iirc Koga and others have offered a stance ulti for Bladestorm way long ago. DE just smacked us with Primal Fury and I felt it was a mockery to see it after we suggested this for Bladestorm and now the community laughs back at us with Redundancy.

Lets be real here every Warframe is a copy paste of each other and Warframe PERIOD is a Huge Copy paste of plenty games dont make Me bring out Pictures but i will say that our Parkour system is a Copy paste of Ninja Gaiden in a sense. Enemies like MoAs are copy paste from Metal Gears Geckos. Zanuka is Copy Paste from metal Gears Crying Wolf. Need I say more? I can go on all day but thats not the point.

Anyone and everyone here is a copy and paste of each others playstyles and builds, noone here is original we all follow the same trends and we all use the same metas, some may innovate and try something new and not know someone else out there already tried it.

A Stance Bladestorm would not be a Exalted Blade copy You guys just clearly dont like or agree with Stance Ulti's PERIOD lets be blood raw here stop sugar coatin $hit.

Yeah EB is OP and can annoy You Elite players, as well as Hysteria, I dont mind it. Im not an elitist and I careless about Your kill streaks. I could enter a mission and press 4 all day with ash and get most kills and guess what? Its BORING redundant, annoying and EVERY Ash in this community does it. I barely ever see Smoke Shadow Ash builds.

I never see Safeguard Switch Loki's, Muzzle Flash Mesas, Calm Frenzy Equinoxs, etc.

Whats that tell You? Everyone in this community is a follower, yall dont think for yall selves. You just hop on Warframe open up Youtube and follow Streamers guides.

I would say a small percent of Warframe plaayers dont follow the norms and create there own builds and play stuff others dont.

All the Ashs I see build for Power Strength and negative Duration. I have yet to see a Maxed Duration+Efficiency Ash in community like LordKoga and he prides his build and takes Smoke Shadow all the time.

I seen Koga run a Muzzle Flash Mesa and some guy in the squad raged on him because of the flash CC and being annoying. Guess what? It worked, Koga can play a nice Mesa and I learned alot from him.

Just because Im not a Famous Youtuber or streamer or Founder people automatically discredit My ideas? You cant judge someone because of there profile pic or Mastery Rank. 

Just My opinion and take on the matter and what I see in Warframes community. 

There you go again.  You can stop repeated your proposed changes.  We've seen them multiple times, it's just many of us don't like them.

Seriously dude?  More ad hominems?  I couldn't care less if you started playing last week or if you've been playing since launch, your idea is bad and many of us have pointed out why it is inferior, not fun, already done, etc.  We have cited example upon example upon example, but no, we clearly don't know how to use Ash (despite a number of us, myself included, maining him) and just endlessly spam bladestorm.  Lay off of the insults (thinly-vieled or otherwise) and playing the victim card.  You're not helping your case and would do better sicking to actual facts.

At this point, I'm really starting to think you've just skimmed through or failed to even read many of the posts in your topic.  Your "you're all the same" rant is diametrically opposed to many of the points many in this thread have brought up.

[AKKILLA]

15 minutes ago, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

Actually they aren't to similar in my opinion.  With Bladestorm, you hit the target just enough to take them out of the fight.  NG just kinda seems like you're needlessly wailing away on some unfortunate mook.

You might've noticed I already stated in this thread that I would be in favor of more animations and an abilty to toggle Bladestorm off mid-murder as well as a few other quality of life changes.  However; these are all small tweaks, not a major overhaul that completely butchers his playstyle.

There you go again.  You can stop repeated your proposed changes.  We've seen them multiple times, it's just many of us don't like them.

Seriously dude?  More ad hominems?  I couldn't care less if you started playing last week or if you've been playing since launch, your idea is bad and many of us have pointed out why it is inferior, not fun, already done, etc.  We have cited example upon example upon example, but no, we clearly don't know how to use Ash (despite a number of us, myself included, maining him) and just endlessly spam bladestorm.  Lay off of the insults (thinly-vieled or otherwise) and playing the victim card.  You're not helping your case and would do better sicking to actual facts.

At this point, I'm really starting to think you've just skimmed through or failed to even read many of the posts in your topic.  Your "you're all the same" rant is diametrically opposed to many of the points many in this thread have brought up.

Ok Im going to get straight to the point because You are taking this to another level.

I dont agree with adding more animations, thats not what Bladestorm needs imo. It needs a Toggle Drain Stance. Just My opinion. As spoken by Steve his idea was to press 4 and send clones to do the work and leave Ash out the picture. As an Avid Ash player I dont like the concept one bit. It screams NINJA RUMBLERS.

Your opinion about the comparison with Ryu and Ashs Ulti's is Your opinion. It in fact does function very similar, Ash just teleports across the Map attacking 18 enemies max.

Ryu focuses more on an AoE within his range but aesthetically look very similar in comparison. Ryu's Ulti is charged and executed by release, Ashs just press 4. They both take away the control from Your hands. Taking away control is like not playing the game. Claiming its a Nuke room clearer and thats what Ash is suppose to do is only hindering Ash from progression and forcing ash players to build for only Bladestorm.

You just made no point except an excuse about why you dont like My concept. Ok cool You are entitled to. Dont claim everyone here doesnt agree and is on Your side because thats just a contradiction on your behalf. Iirc You must care about this thread alot You have replied the most here You cant speak for the rest of the members offering there feed back to this thread.

I prefer to keep this on topic as You are creating an environment that will possibly lead to bad blood. Im not here to call noone names or bash anyone. If You dont like the idea I have thats cool but I can assure You while there may be a good amount who dont like it there are also a good amount who appreciate this concept.

The real reason people dont like the proposed idea are 2 reasons and 1 of them is quiet notable

ANOTHER EXALTED WEAPON

the second one is

I WILL LOSE ALL MY KILLS NOW CUZ I HAVE TO MANUALLY WALK UP TO ENEMIES AND KILL THEM

That reply ssounded like a lazy reply, so you prefer press 4 and watch it happen? Really? Or You prefer Press 4 and watch your clones do it while you shoot etc?

Nah I prefer to press 4 and go into a Bladestorm mode and do the Bladestorming Myself. Its just how I feel.

Press 4 to QTE? This isnt a Triple A game this is an MMO RPG, Ash isnt a Mage so i dnt agree with pressing 4 to cast clones, I prefer pressing 4 and being that Super Ninja Assassin.

You honestly telling Me you like the proposed rework Steve offered? Or a QTE? Thats terrible, and a Shadows of Mordor style Shadow Strike is basically a spammed Teleport with finishers not a Bladestorm.

Id say Storm of Urfael is more of a Bladestorm but slow as hell

[Xarathos_The_Judge]

15 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Ok Im going to get straight to the point because You are taking this to another level.

I dont agree with adding more animations, thats not what Bladestorm needs imo. It needs a Toggle Drain Stance. Just My opinion. As spoken by Steve his idea was to press 4 and send clones to do the work and leave Ash out the picture. As an Avid Ash player I dont like the concept one bit. It screams NINJA RUMBLERS.

Your opinion about the comparison with Ryu and Ashs Ulti's is Your opinion. It in fact does function very similar, Ash just teleports across the Map attacking 18 enemies max.

Ryu focuses more on an AoE within his range but aesthetically look very similar in comparison. Ryu's Ulti is charged and executed by release, Ashs just press 4. They both take away the control from Your hands. Taking away control is like not playing the game. Claiming its a Nuke room clearer and thats what Ash is suppose to do is only hindering Ash from progression and forcing ash players to build for only Bladestorm.

You just made no point except an excuse about why you dont like My concept. Ok cool You are entitled to. Dont claim everyone here doesnt agree and is on Your side because thats just a contradiction on your behalf. Iirc You must care about this thread alot You have replied the most here You cant speak for the rest of the members offering there feed back to this thread.

I prefer to keep this on topic as You are creating an environment that will possibly lead to bad blood. Im not here to call noone names or bash anyone. If You dont like the idea I have thats cool but I can assure You while there may be a good amount who dont like it there are also a good amount who appreciate this concept.

The real reason people dont like the proposed idea are 2 reasons and 1 of them is quiet notable

ANOTHER EXALTED WEAPON

the second one is

I WILL LOSE ALL MY KILLS NOW CUZ I HAVE TO MANUALLY WALK UP TO ENEMIES AND KILL THEM

That reply ssounded like a lazy reply, so you prefer press 4 and watch it happen? Really? Or You prefer Press 4 and watch your clones do it while you shoot etc?

Nah I prefer to press 4 and go into a Bladestorm mode and do the Bladestorming Myself. Its just how I feel.

Press 4 to QTE? This isnt a Triple A game this is an MMO RPG, Ash isnt a Mage so i dnt agree with pressing 4 to cast clones, I prefer pressing 4 and being that Super Ninja Assassin.

You honestly telling Me you like the proposed rework Steve offered? Or a QTE? Thats terrible, and a Shadows of Mordor style Shadow Strike is basically a spammed Teleport with finishers not a Bladestorm.

Id say Storm of Urfael is more of a Bladestorm but slow as hell

You're aware that the reason your idea is called an "Exalted Blade Clone" is because you want a toggle drain stance, right?  A toggle drain stance is basically just an Exalted Blade but with more ninja flavor.  Why sugar coat it?

As for the NG thing again... I have already stated why I find it boring, and why I find Blade Storm to be more practical.  Feel free to go "reread" my posts, you seem to be intrested in keeping track of them after all.

So now it is an "excuse" to refute a point you disagree with with a string of solid facts and observations?  My logic and reason must've been failing me all of these years.  I also never claimed that "everyone" agreed with me.  That would be an absolute, and well quite frankly would be inaccurate.  I used the term "many".  Any observer upon a plain reading of this thread find that "many" of the posters share views that are similar to my own.  Seeing as how they have posted in a public forum, few would argue that one should not cite them given certain conditions.

Last I checked, this was a topic about Ash's skill Blade Storm, so I'd say the majority of posts on this thread, mine included, are on topic.  As far as the "bad blood" goes, I have yet to post a single negative thing about you, or anyone else in this thread for that matter.  I have backed up my views with facts and observations.  That said, I guess not all truths are pleasant.

Now onto your "real reasons".  No.  Just no.  You don't just ignore people's reasons.  If you can refute them, fine.  You don't just ignore them and act like they never happened.  In regards to your "walk up" strawman, I have already refuted that one.  I explained in detail why many of us (many, not all) found your rework to be "slow".

As a minor criticism, Warframe is not a MMORPG.  It is a TPS.  It has RPG-elements as a lot of newer games do, but it is not an RPG.  There are some who would argue the MMO label as well, but it's close enough to get the idea across in my opinion.

As for the changes I would like to see to Blade Storm, or Ash in general for that matter, I have yet to support any proposed rework I have seen.  I would support many of the quality of life changes I have seen proposed, but as of this post, no Ash rework has earned my support.  Of course in all fairness, most proposed reworks I've seen just seem like "Exalted Blade Clones".

[AKKILLA]

6 minutes ago, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

You're aware that the reason your idea is called an "Exalted Blade Clone" is because you want a toggle drain stance, right?  A toggle drain stance is basically just an Exalted Blade but with more ninja flavor.  Why sugar coat it?

As for the NG thing again... I have already stated why I find it boring, and why I find Blade Storm to be more practical.  Feel free to go "reread" my posts, you seem to be intrested in keeping track of them after all.

So now it is an "excuse" to refute a point you disagree with with a string of solid facts and observations?  My logic and reason must've been failing me all of these years.  I also never claimed that "everyone" agreed with me.  That would be an absolute, and well quite frankly would be inaccurate.  I used the term "many".  Any observer upon a plain reading of this thread find that "many" of the posters share views that are similar to my own.  Seeing as how they have posted in a public forum, few would argue that one should not cite them given certain conditions.

Last I checked, this was a topic about Ash's skill Blade Storm, so I'd say the majority of posts on this thread, mine included, are on topic.  As far as the "bad blood" goes, I have yet to post a single negative thing about you, or anyone else in this thread for that matter.  I have backed up my views with facts and observations.  That said, I guess not all truths are pleasant.

Now onto your "real reasons".  No.  Just no.  You don't just ignore people's reasons.  If you can refute them, fine.  You don't just ignore them and act like they never happened.  In regards to your "walk up" strawman, I have already refuted that one.  I explained in detail why many of us (many, not all) found your rework to be "slow".

As a minor criticism, Warframe is not a MMORPG.  It is a TPS.  It has RPG-elements as a lot of newer games do, but it is not an RPG.  There are some who would argue the MMO label as well, but it's close enough to get the idea across in my opinion.

As for the changes I would like to see to Blade Storm, or Ash in general for that matter, I have yet to support any proposed rework I have seen.  I would support many of the quality of life changes I have seen proposed, but as of this post, no Ash rework has earned my support.  Of course in all fairness, most proposed reworks I've seen just seem like "Exalted Blade Clones".

 

You are using Exalted Blade as an excuse to troll the idea and discredit it as a good rework for Bladestorm. I just got back from the store and checked Forums and look what I find.

 

Seems im not the only fella who thinks the same, but You claim alot of people dont like this idea. Its ok I respect Your opinion but I disagree that its bad. I agree the current Bladestorm is bad and disappoints players in squads. Heck some people will leave squads at the sight of Ash/Prime.I have asked around to see what folks think about Ash and why some guys hate Ash soo much and its mainly because of Bladestorm. The other facts lay on Smoke Screens low duration which I dont mind I have great duration on mines plus Trickery+Shadow Step grants me 3 means of invisibility. I can quiet well play the current iteration and tbh I love Ash alot, even its current buggy Bladestorm i just see it in a better place as a Stance because doing all my research Bladestorm is the First ability with a Weapon installed and the weapon is Melee.

 

BTW Exalted Blade shouldnt be compared to all stance Ulti if You really wanna compare them compare them to the actual Patriot of Stance Ulti's

 

 

This is the original Stance Ulti that started it all and paved way for these....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ash

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

• Ash was the first Warframe that had innate physical weapons associated with his frame, in this case his hidden blades he uses in his Blade Storm ability. The second frame with this innate physical weapon was Mesa and her Regulator pistols she uses in her Peacemaker ability.

Check in the Trivia section under Ash in the Wikia, Ashs Bladestorm was the 1st ability with a weapon innate and its a melee weapon, a Stance makes total sense and will fix Ashs Bladestorm, the rest of the ideas I implemented are all about making Ash a more Team oriented Warframe adding CC to his smoke screen, synergizing shuriken and smoke screen with teleports, free aim teleports, how are these ideas not good or not interactive?

I have analyzed that You just like the current Bladestorm because You press 4 and slaughter everything with out any effort, That is BAD and unwanted just ask around. The only Ash avid gamers that like it is because they are afraid the changes will ruin Ash. IMO the idea Steve mentioned sending Ninja Clones out will ruin Bladestorm and Ash as a whole, and then when it happens you and I and everyone here will regret it and prefer this concept which is better

 

 

 

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

41 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

I have analyzed that You just like the current Bladestorm because You press 4 and slaughter everything with out any effort

Just because you say "analyzed" doesn't mean it isn't a baseless accusation intended to invalidate someone's opinion.

[Xarathos_The_Judge]

Ok, now I'm certain you're not reading or just ignoring large sections of my posts.  To think the day would come where the man who earned the epithet "The Walking Wiki" would be accused of ignorance to this magnitude...

The reason your rework is called an "Exalted Blade Clone", is because it was the Excalibur rework that triggered many of these discussions.  It was the inspiration behind the vast majority of these "Rework Ash" discussions.  You then ignore the glaring weaknesses people point out in your proposed rework, to say nothing of the dislike many long-time Ash players have of that style of ability.  It seems you have also ignored the utilitarian uses you have been told about Ash's kit, but wait what do I know, I just "press 4 and slaughter everything with out any effort".  Oh wait, I already told you I usually refrain from using ALL skills and kill almost exclusively in melee.  To be honest, while I dislike both this rework idea and Steve's rework idea, I'd prefer Steve's over this one.  At least then function would have priorty over form.

In regards to the spam four mentality, many (myself included) have mentioned this is a problem.  An Ash rework is not the answer.  That would just cause people to move on the the next frame they felt would be best at "spam 4 to win".  Perhaps you have also failed to notice the steady stream of Excalibur, Valkyr, Ember, etc. players who join a mission; press 4; and use it for the entire duration of the mission.  With your proposed rework, I see no reason why Ash wouldn't join their ranks.  That is, assuming his damage actually got it's "buff".  Of course as it stands now, the only place I regularly see "spam 4" Ashes is in Sorties.  Of course, considering armor and damage scaling, I can't say that I fully blame them.  (Just like I can't really fault people for bringing Frosts into defense missions, or Lokis into spy missions.)  I notice your screenshot earlier appeared to be in Draco.  I will refrain from commenting on that node since I do not frequent it, and as such any info I do have on it would be very, very out of date.

Many players choosing to use their skills, particularly their fours, is a major problem in my opinion.  If I see an idea that I feel will actually fix the problem without ruining the feel of the game, I have little doubt that I would support such an idea.  That said, your idea isn't that idea and will never be that idea.

[Troll_Logic]

On 3/16/2016 at 11:16 AM, Nedow40 said:

If the camera was free. I think it would solve many problems with bladestorm.

How?  Blade Storm is so fast, how would moving the camera in those few seconds help?

[AKKILLA]

14 minutes ago, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

That said, YOUR idea isn't that idea and will NEVER be that idea.

Ok Im finished with debating with You, as I notice a passive aggressive behavior. Or Hate it seems. Its ok to disagree but if You ask Me your idea isnt that great itself.

Press 4 to cancel the same iteration, panned out camera view, and a few more animations makes Bladestorm basically the same thing. 

PRESS 4 TO WIN

Is Your concept better then what we have now? Not one bit, You are still promoting Press 4, I am promoting interactivity in the sense of a Stance. If You dont like it i respect that but dont shed hatred towards the idea and make excuses that its bad because Your opinionated, I see other guys making more threads about Bladestorms similar to Mines and that there states that there are in fact guys who think Ashs Bladestorm should be the next Stance Ultimate.

I agree with you in one point, I dont wanna see a whole arsenal of Stance Drain Ultimates, but Bladestorm fits in Perfectly. Soo perfect I can actually imagine it in Game. I wouldnt offer something if i cant visualize it in full detail. I wouldnt offer ideas for Limbo because he isnt in my style and I dont know how to fix or rework his abilities.

I only offer ideas for stuff i have knowledge of and can in fact add to the fix.

Like Mirages Prism, Imo I think LoS shuld be implemeted first to Enemies AI, Enemies should have a Line of Sight cone. This will indicate if an enemy will be blinded or not.

Obviously an enemy lookin away or in another room they shouldnt be blinded. Line of Sight is common but to enemy AI not to the Blind ability itself. If I cast a Blind ability and just because Im not facing an enemy behind me that makes no sense. now the enemies behind me if there LoS cone is facing towards the Blind and the blind ofcoarse has a set range this may fix Prism and yet other blind abilities.

 

[AKKILLA]

1 hour ago, Xarathos_The_Judge said:

You're aware that the reason your idea is called an "Exalted Blade Clone" is because you want a toggle drain stance, right?  A toggle drain stance is basically just an Exalted Blade but with more ninja flavor.  Why sugar coat it?

As for the NG thing again... I have already stated why I find it boring, and why I find Blade Storm to be more practical.  Feel free to go "reread" my posts, you seem to be intrested in keeping track of them after all.

So now it is an "excuse" to refute a point you disagree with with a string of solid facts and observations?  My logic and reason must've been failing me all of these years.  I also never claimed that "everyone" agreed with me.  That would be an absolute, and well quite frankly would be inaccurate.  I used the term "many".  Any observer upon a plain reading of this thread find that "many" of the posters share views that are similar to my own.  Seeing as how they have posted in a public forum, few would argue that one should not cite them given certain conditions.

Last I checked, this was a topic about Ash's skill Blade Storm, so I'd say the majority of posts on this thread, mine included, are on topic.  As far as the "bad blood" goes, I have yet to post a single negative thing about you, or anyone else in this thread for that matter.  I have backed up my views with facts and observations.  That said, I guess not all truths are pleasant.

Now onto your "real reasons".  No.  Just no.  You don't just ignore people's reasons.  If you can refute them, fine.  You don't just ignore them and act like they never happened.  In regards to your "walk up" strawman, I have already refuted that one.  I explained in detail why many of us (many, not all) found your rework to be "slow".

As a minor criticism, Warframe is not a MMORPG.  It is a TPS.  It has RPG-elements as a lot of newer games do, but it is not an RPG.  There are some who would argue the MMO label as well, but it's close enough to get the idea across in my opinion.

As for the changes I would like to see to Blade Storm, or Ash in general for that matter, I have yet to support any proposed rework I have seen.  I would support many of the quality of life changes I have seen proposed, but as of this post, no Ash rework has earned my support.  Of course in all fairness, most proposed reworks I've seen just seem like "Exalted Blade Clones".

If I recall every reply you leave for some reason the second I tab out of Warframe to check my notifications You seem to have 1 or more likes already posted in your responses. Seems You have a solid team of followers who Love every word You say. Idk or care Im just pointing that out I thought it was funny.

I will credit You on one fact, You are one hell of a smart guy, every word You use is confusing to me and I feel soo ghetto having to use Google to define these words, sorry Im a bit dumb Im not a very articulate individual as Yourself. Seems You have some college experience. I applaud You sir. I learned a few things from You today.

But on to the Ash Bladestorm rework, You show here Your great knowledge by offering only a Camera fix, More Animations, press 4 to cancel.

Great job, that fixed everything, now lets close this thread guys You fixed all our problems.  lol jk Sarcasm dont kill Me.

Ok so You hate My idea of Exalted Blade Storm (I along with a few others like it)

How about the rest of the Rework from My Ash thread?

Is My SHURIKEN idea bad?

How about SMOKE SCREEN concept? Is a CC cloud bad too?

What about the Free-aim TELEPORT, and the Teleport synergy with Shuriken+Smoke Screen+Teleport?

 

P.S. You said My Bladestorm concept is slow lol then say I dont read what You post? You made no attempt at reading My thread most likely your excuse is TL:DR? Read before judging I did state a movement+parkour speed increase plus the shuriken Smoke Screen synergy with Teleport and Free-aim teleports. It is clear You prefer to press 4 and watch it go down. Thats your opinion but dont degrade My idea with Your false claims of it being slow. I in No way intend on making Bladestorm slow. I want it to be fast paced, i prefer to do the killing myself tho thats the difference. You prefer the press 4 crutch

[AKKILLA]

53 minutes ago, (PS4)ElZilcho said:

Just because you say "analyzed" doesn't mean it isn't a baseless accusation intended to invalidate someone's opinion.

It is in fact a true accusation, yet another press 4 to win player. Thats fine You have an opinion, im sure you must be the guy who likes every reply Xarathos leaves. Are You guys supporting each other just to claim my idea isnt good or you just supporting each other because You dont want Bladestorm to be changed period?

I barely see anybody who likes Ashs Bladestorm unless if Your an Ash Fan boy ofcoarse. Koga is gonna kill me for that comment but even he disagrees that Bladestorm is terrible he only latches to it because it works and is cool aesthetically.

Also someone made a statement that makeing bladestorm a QTE would be the right way. lol Thats very slow and infact doesnt go with Warframe. QTE shouldnt make its way into warframe and especially not into ashs kit

[Issxi]

Bladestorm needs to not be press 4 to win. It needs to require effort and skill for that kind of payoff.

[AKKILLA]

2 minutes ago, Xylyssa said:

Bladestorm needs to not be press 4 to win. It needs to require effort and skill for that kind of payoff.

I agree, thanks finally someone sorta agrees. Maybe not with My idea exactly but atleast Your not cheerleading these guys on to keep it as is and add a cancel button.

Did You check My rework thread btw? Its about his whole kit but with main focus on Bladestorm and adding synergy. These guys obviously prefer to press 4 to win

I prefer to press 4 to activate and go to town like a Super Ninja Shadow Clone Master with Ninja tools at My disposal.

 

Check it out ^^^

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

2 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

yet another press 4 to win player.

Provide evidence of this other than not liking your idea or stop repeating it.

I know it's false, I just want to watch you twist in the wind while you fail to back anything up.

[Xarathos_The_Judge]

2 hours ago, AKKILLA said:

Ok Im finished with debating with You, as I notice a passive aggressive behavior. Or Hate it seems. Its ok to disagree but if You ask Me your idea isnt that great itself.

Press 4 to cancel the same iteration, panned out camera view, and a few more animations makes Bladestorm basically the same thing. 

PRESS 4 TO WIN

Is Your concept better then what we have now? Not one bit, You are still promoting Press 4, I am promoting interactivity in the sense of a Stance. If You dont like it i respect that but dont shed hatred towards the idea and make excuses that its bad because Your opinionated, I see other guys making more threads about Bladestorms similar to Mines and that there states that there are in fact guys who think Ashs Bladestorm should be the next Stance Ultimate.

I agree with you in one point, I dont wanna see a whole arsenal of Stance Drain Ultimates, but Bladestorm fits in Perfectly. Soo perfect I can actually imagine it in Game. I wouldnt offer something if i cant visualize it in full detail. I wouldnt offer ideas for Limbo because he isnt in my style and I dont know how to fix or rework his abilities.

I only offer ideas for stuff i have knowledge of and can in fact add to the fix.

Like Mirages Prism, Imo I think LoS shuld be implemeted first to Enemies AI, Enemies should have a Line of Sight cone. This will indicate if an enemy will be blinded or not.

Obviously an enemy lookin away or in another room they shouldnt be blinded. Line of Sight is common but to enemy AI not to the Blind ability itself. If I cast a Blind ability and just because Im not facing an enemy behind me that makes no sense. now the enemies behind me if there LoS cone is facing towards the Blind and the blind ofcoarse has a set range this may fix Prism and yet other blind abilities.

 

You think someone disagreeing with you and refuting your arguments is hate, yet you spouting a steady stream of ad hominems isn't?

Also, as I explained on multiple occasions earlier, the "press 4 to win" mentality is a problem.  I have not put forth any ideas for a potential rework.  All of the changes I would support are quality of life level.  I have also not compiled a complete list of those I would support and/or those I have thought would be good.  If you'd prefer I could notify you of any Ash rework thread I make in the future, though I don't think that is too likely.  This thread is about your idea.  I have posted that it is bad, and have provided support for this viewpoint.

1 hour ago, AKKILLA said:

If I recall every reply you leave for some reason the second I tab out of Warframe to check my notifications You seem to have 1 or more likes already posted in your responses. Seems You have a solid team of followers who Love every word You say. Idk or care Im just pointing that out I thought it was funny.

I will credit You on one fact, You are one hell of a smart guy, every word You use is confusing to me and I feel soo ghetto having to use Google to define these words, sorry Im a bit dumb Im not a very articulate individual as Yourself. Seems You have some college experience. I applaud You sir. I learned a few things from You today.

But on to the Ash Bladestorm rework, You show here Your great knowledge by offering only a Camera fix, More Animations, press 4 to cancel.

Great job, that fixed everything, now lets close this thread guys You fixed all our problems.  lol jk Sarcasm dont kill Me.

Ok so You hate My idea of Exalted Blade Storm (I along with a few others like it)

How about the rest of the Rework from My Ash thread?

Is My SHURIKEN idea bad?

How about SMOKE SCREEN concept? Is a CC cloud bad too?

What about the Free-aim TELEPORT, and the Teleport synergy with Shuriken+Smoke Screen+Teleport?

 

P.S. You said My Bladestorm concept is slow lol then say I dont read what You post? You made no attempt at reading My thread most likely your excuse is TL:DR? Read before judging I did state a movement+parkour speed increase plus the shuriken Smoke Screen synergy with Teleport and Free-aim teleports. It is clear You prefer to press 4 and watch it go down. Thats your opinion but dont degrade My idea with Your false claims of it being slow. I in No way intend on making Bladestorm slow. I want it to be fast paced, i prefer to do the killing myself tho thats the difference. You prefer the press 4 crutch

I have a team of followers? Oh...uh...hi guys...I guess?  *awkward wave*

About the Bladestorm rework, I'd prefer to give credit where it is due.  None of those changes I cited were mine.  They were mentioned by other posters in this thread.  I just agreed that'd they'd be good changes, well except for the camera one.  I'd want to see that one first to ensure it was done well.  Assuming it was, I'd have no objections.  Don't worry about the killing thing, I'd need a radiation proc in play for that.  Also to the guy I accidentally stabbed in the back with my sword with that finisher, if you're reading this, sorry about that.

As to the rest of your abilities, I'm opposed to the whole death mark idea in general.  The whole thing just seems like an unneeded extra step.  Now if we're talking improved aim for shuriken kind of changes, I'd be open to those.  Smoke screen already has a crowd control.  The cloud CC seems more like an augment kind of upgrade.  I would support a more mobile usability for it though.  As for teleport, Ash strikes me as the type of frame best only using the optimal tool for the job rather than using unneed setup.  Now the ability to target surfaces or doing something about that "invalid target" nonsense on the other hand...

I have read every post in this thread as of this posting.  Since you seem to be unable or unwilling to find my remarks on the issue, you can find them in this post.

 

1 hour ago, AKKILLA said:

It is in fact a true accusation, yet another press 4 to win player. Thats fine You have an opinion, im sure you must be the guy who likes every reply Xarathos leaves. Are You guys supporting each other just to claim my idea isnt good or you just supporting each other because You dont want Bladestorm to be changed period?

I barely see anybody who likes Ashs Bladestorm unless if Your an Ash Fan boy ofcoarse. Koga is gonna kill me for that comment but even he disagrees that Bladestorm is terrible he only latches to it because it works and is cool aesthetically.

Also someone made a statement that makeing bladestorm a QTE would be the right way. lol Thats very slow and infact doesnt go with Warframe. QTE shouldnt make its way into warframe and especially not into ashs kit

Actually, it is quite a baseless accusation as I have explained twice now when you accused me of it.  I have already stated I don't oppose Bladestorm changes, I oppose bad Bladestorm changes.  I'd imagine some people agree, if I'm as "popular" as you say.

[FillyHarmonic]

Honestly, Bladestorm DOES need a change... I'm not exactly sure what it is, since Bladestorm gets the job done. It does finisher damage, ignoring armor and shields, and hitting straight to Health, providing the ultimate CC (Death) as the enemies in queue to be hit are stunned and locked in place as well, as Ash and his clones do their thing. The reason I believe Bladestorm's rework is... slow-coming from DE, is that for now, it works. A long while back, there was a Devstream that mentioned that all single button "Nuke" abilities are going away, to at least have SOME input other than '4' for most frames, and '2' for Mag. 

Edited March 18, 2016 by Celastiar

[AKKILLA]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)ElZilcho said:

Provide evidence of this other than not liking your idea or stop repeating it.

I know it's false, I just want to watch you twist in the wind while you fail to back anything up.

Wow what is this a constant Gang rape?

I cant make a response without being attacked i guess. Im sure You dont play Ash for Shuriken Smoke Screen or Teleport lets be honest.

Im sure if you wanted to use invisibility You will play Loki as everyone in this community puke out, why play Ash when You can Loki. Im referring to Invisibility between Loki and Ash.

The majority dont play or build Ash for duration, just efficiency strength and range is what I see Ash players run. How about this post Your Ash build if You dont mind that will say alot about how You  play him. If You use 3 Load outs as I do feel free to post them to judge Your playstyle.

Lets be real here, I may be wrong about saying to are a 4 Spammer but who doesnt spam Bladestorm? Even moderately, Bladestorm is the best choice for an Ash player its effective and gets the job done, in an unpleasant way. Right or wrong?

[Xarathos_The_Judge]

11 minutes ago, AKKILLA said:

Wow what is this a constant Gang rape?

I cant make a response without being attacked i guess. Im sure You dont play Ash for Shuriken Smoke Screen or Teleport lets be honest.

Im sure if you wanted to use invisibility You will play Loki as everyone in this community puke out, why play Ash when You can Loki. Im referring to Invisibility between Loki and Ash.

The majority dont play or build Ash for duration, just efficiency strength and range is what I see Ash players run. How about this post Your Ash build if You dont mind that will say alot about how You  play him. If You use 3 Load outs as I do feel free to post them to judge Your playstyle.

Lets be real here, I may be wrong about saying to are a 4 Spammer but who doesnt spam Bladestorm? Even moderately, Bladestorm is the best choice for an Ash player its effective and gets the job done, in an unpleasant way. Right or wrong?

Dude, comparing that heinous act to people disagreeing with you on a game about space ninjas?  Not cool.

Post my Ash build?  I think not.  I will however challenge you to a contest of skill.  Something easy, say a T3S.  No Bladestorm, no Naramon, no arcanes, sword alone.

As far as Bladestorming goes, it does have glaring weaknesses as many have pointed out.  Besides, it's usually not needed.

[(PSN)ElZilcho]

Spoiler

You have a very skewed viewpoint. You aren't being attacked, you're attacking people and they're responding.