Bows are almost impossible to use.

[ImNotJellyAtAll]

  Fast player movement speed, low ammo, travel time, and arrow arc, all make bows frustrating and impossible to use. In most games, projectile weapons have a larger hitbox to compensate for the crazy amount of mechanics in play. I have no idea why this isn't the case in Warframe.

  And, in the miracle one of my arrows does land, the damage is garbage. Archers have to account for flight speed, charge time, arrow arc, and ridiculous player movement. When a shot actually lands, it better do more than chip damage. Consistent archery is difficult, and it's extremely frustrating when a masterful shot does less damage than brainlessly holding down left-click with a Braton.

Edited April 14, 2016 by ImNotJellyAtAll

[ashrah]

u will get used to i like stealth wepons... just choice good places where enemy going in linear pattern....

[ImNotJellyAtAll]

7 minutes ago, ashrah said:

u will get used to i like stealth wepons... just choice good places where enemy going in linear pattern....

  Even with perfect positioning (a tiny hallway with four people in it), my arrows would miss the enemy by a millimeter because of their crap hitboxes, while I was being worn down by a skillful display of holding down left click on an automatic primary.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

I have to agree bows are extremely hard to use. But not because they suck on paper (which they don't)

 

Its because the mechanics surrounding it are trash,

[Guest Pun-chee]

1. Bows, especially Daikyu are currently too easy to use - the recent arrow flight speed buff was unnecessary, at least for every bow except MK1-Paris.

2. All bows kill an average EHP Frame in 2 shots (fully charged, no headshot) - except Rakta Cernos which is a 3-hit kill (Thanks for correction @Zerga-08). It's possible to kill every single frame in 2sec even if you only hit once: Hit with bow and switch to secondary Weapon, fast attacking melee weapon (if you are close enough) or use a cheap damage dealing Ability (Volt's Shock, Ash's Shuriken, etc).

 

The real problem with bows is not what you describe, it's this:

 

Edited April 15, 2016 by Pun-chee

[Zerga-08]

3 minutes ago, Pun-chee said:

All bows kill an average EHP Frame in 2 shots (fully charged, no headshot).

Rakta Cernos. Then again that seems like more of a joke weapon.

[Guest Pun-chee]

Just now, Zerga-08 said:

Rakta Cernos. Then again that seems like more of a joke weapon.

Oops, sorry. Yeah. Rakta Cernos is a 3 hit kill, true. But it's a Impact heavy weapon = meant for combo-ing. It also has the fastest draw speed of all, which means you can use it to "spam away".

[taiiat]

on top of Accuracy problems on a Precision Weapon, Networking causes nightmare problems. there's always shots from time to time in any PvP Shooter that simply don't deal Damage, don't register, miss when they clearly didn't, Et Cetera.
those problems can exacerbate problematic results.

[Lordricker]

Now im not a regular user of other bows but daikyu is definitely viable, even though as others had said accuracy is super annoying and lag will make things much harder than they should be, 

daikyu viable= https://www.twitch.tv/lordricker/v/60703010 weelak normally beats me, Also watch right at 2 mins.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Lordricker

[Leyers_of_facade]

Bows are actually quite viable. It just has a higher skill requirement than others.

Personally I think the main problem for bows is lag. I can hit a target if I can predict where they are moving by previous seconds, but if they are just warping by 5m boxs, that makes life horrible.

The solution of all these had always been dedicated servers, however DE after all the requests have yet to do it.

 

Oh, and yeah that inaccuracy is a real problem as shown in azarakidragon's post... and the constant change of flight speed and damage for bows isn't helping... After all these constant changes, I honestly want to know what DE want bows to be.

[NoeleVeerod]

Bows are devastating, if you are already accustomed with Conclave. They are probably the least forgiving weapons, but I don't know, it seems logical to me that they are not meant for direct skirmishes. They can give you lots of killsteal potential, though, since once an enemy is softened up they can get very close to one-shot (or reach that point altogether).

Furthermore, the Daikyu is probably the hardest one to use, but it can kill several frames in one shot, or put them in peril. Probably best used when your target is smitten, and it's not rare to see people flying around, waiting for the opening. But no matter how bad it looks: you don't want to be hit by a bow. Ever.

 

But yes, it's probably safe to use anything else if you have just started. Sometimes even good players avoid them, because of the skill cap required to use them.

Edited April 15, 2016 by -Vin-

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

Bows are a conclave favorite. 

1 hit kills to the head. 

2 hit kills to the body. 

All u have to do is practice. Put in the time to get good. Ask the people in the top clans for tips and points or to just kick ur tail for a few weeks to get good. 

[Dzecar]

4 hours ago, (XB1)CFE Vendetta said:

 

nice job on ressurecting all those dead topics

[(XBOX)Aeries Vendetta]

And thats a problem why? 

I felt like joining the conversation. Did i need your permission? Sorry didnt know. 

[-CM-Excalibur-]

*cough* Daikyu *cough* practice your aim *cough* *cough* Trust me its killer *cough* *cough*

[HoakinBlackforge]

10 hours ago, -BE-BladeOfRuin said:

*cough* Daikyu *cough* practice your aim *cough* *cough* Trust me its killer *cough* *cough*

-Players can move at huge speeds and turn their directions anywhere at will.

-A hitscan weapon is more effective.

-The only mod for daikyu rewards long distance hits.

 

"conclave is balanced", they say.

[Krysyth]

9 hours ago, HoakinBlackforge said:

-Players can move at huge speeds and turn their directions anywhere at will.

-A hitscan weapon is more effective.

-The only mod for daikyu rewards long distance hits.

 

"conclave is balanced", they say.

An overwhelming majority of players cannot consistently aim while moving optimally and must slow down in an exploitable way if they wish to take offensive actions.

The only hitscan weapons that do damage similar to the Daikyu (or bows in general) are the Opticor and some sniper rifles, which tend to require even more deliberate aim to use effectively.

Spring Loaded Broadhead only provides a bonus to long-distance shots, but the Daikyu is still capable of lethal or >85% eHP damage under 15m.

 

And yeah, Conclave is currently balanced pretty well apart from melee needing a rework and a few large-magazine hitscan auto rifles being too strong.

Edited May 6, 2016 by Krysyth

[HoakinBlackforge]

1 hour ago, Krysyth said:

An overwhelming majority of players cannot consistently aim while moving optimally and must slow down in an exploitable way if they wish to take offensive actions.

The only hitscan weapons that do damage similar to the Daikyu (or bows in general) are the Opticor and some sniper rifles, which tend to require even more deliberate aim to use effectively.

Spring Loaded Broadhead only provides a bonus to long-distance shots, but the Daikyu is still capable of lethal or >85% eHP damage under 15m.

 

And yeah, Conclave is currently balanced pretty well apart from melee needing a rework and a few large-magazine hitscan auto rifles being too strong.

For me, being to travel across the map in seconds, while being nearly unstoppable and avoiding all attacks, its not a sign of balance, and more of "we are too lazy to make things fair for everyone". It will be balanced when i can stop people from going so damn fast with something more than abilities.

By my experience, daikyu users seem to use it like a shotgun.

[Krysyth]

6 minutes ago, HoakinBlackforge said:

For me, being to travel across the map in seconds, while being nearly unstoppable and avoiding all attacks, its not a sign of balance, and more of "we are too lazy to make things fair for everyone". It will be balanced when i can stop people from going so damn fast with something more than abilities.

By my experience, daikyu users seem to use it like a shotgun.

As I said, there is a tradeoff to moving this way - it becomes exceedingly difficult to take meaningful offensive actions when hurtling around the map; thus, doing so is a committed defensive choice, and it becomes necessary for most players to either slow down or stop in order to meaningfully attack someone. While some of the very best players are exceptions to this standard, they are few and far between. This is how the movement is actually fairly balanced.

Many players do use the Daikyu like a shotgun, primarily because movement in most mid-range engagements involves trying to move antiparallel to the opponent and then quickly turn to shoot them; in this style of movement, there is a very exploitable window as players pass each other at which the projectile speed of the Daikyu makes it effectively hitscan and thus very advantageous to use "like a shotgun." The tradeoff, of course, is that it only gets its default damage - less than the ordinary Paris, in fact - which can only one-shot lightweight frames.

[HoakinBlackforge]

5 minutes ago, Krysyth said:

As I said, there is a tradeoff to moving this way - it becomes exceedingly difficult to take meaningful offensive actions when hurtling around the map; thus, doing so is a committed defensive choice, and it becomes necessary for most players to either slow down or stop in order to meaningfully attack someone. While some of the very best players are exceptions to this standard, they are few and far between. This is how the movement is actually fairly balanced.

Many players do use the Daikyu like a shotgun, primarily because movement in most mid-range engagements involves trying to move antiparallel to the opponent and then quickly turn to shoot them; in this style of movement, there is a very exploitable window as players pass each other at which the projectile speed of the Daikyu makes it effectively hitscan and thus very advantageous to use "like a shotgun." The tradeoff, of course, is that it only gets its default damage - less than the ordinary Paris, in fact - which can only one-shot lightweight frames.

The last game i played, it was with my limbo, kinda like in phasedragon's video 

 

Now imagine if it was MUCH more faster, wihout touching the ground, constantly jumping wall to wall, unpredictable and having a huge accuracy.

No please, the movement for me in conclave feels completely unbalanced, unfair and fun-killing. Its not easy to counter it and it benefits too much. Thats why i stopped playing conclave. I cant care anymore about its future in the way it is now.

Edited May 6, 2016 by HoakinBlackforge

[Leyers_of_facade]

4 hours ago, HoakinBlackforge said:

For me, being to travel across the map in seconds, while being nearly unstoppable and avoiding all attacks, its not a sign of balance, and more of "we are too lazy to make things fair for everyone". It will be balanced when i can stop people from going so damn fast with something more than abilities.

By my experience, daikyu users seem to use it like a shotgun.

Indeed, that is why there was a thread that suggest buffing long range for daikyu while nerfing close.

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/638422-how-daikyu-should-be-suggestion-from-chocolate/#comment-7146593

3 hours ago, Krysyth said:

As I said, there is a tradeoff to moving this way - it becomes exceedingly difficult to take meaningful offensive actions when hurtling around the map; thus, doing so is a committed defensive choice, and it becomes necessary for most players to either slow down or stop in order to meaningfully attack someone. While some of the very best players are exceptions to this standard, they are few and far between. This is how the movement is actually fairly balanced.

Many players do use the Daikyu like a shotgun, primarily because movement in most mid-range engagements involves trying to move antiparallel to the opponent and then quickly turn to shoot them; in this style of movement, there is a very exploitable window as players pass each other at which the projectile speed of the Daikyu makes it effectively hitscan and thus very advantageous to use "like a shotgun." The tradeoff, of course, is that it only gets its default damage - less than the ordinary Paris, in fact - which can only one-shot lightweight frames.

It doesn't help when people tries to rush into people's face with any weapon they have in general.

and, yes, daikyu's flight speed definitely should be reverted to 150m/s, similarly other bows should be reverted back to its original flightspeed before that stupid buff that came out of nowhere. Then to balance it back off, give us back the hipfire accuracy for all bows and snipers. 

[Krysyth]

Quote

and, yes, daikyu's flight speed definitely should be reverted to 150m/s, similarly other bows should be reverted back to its original flightspeed before that stupid buff that came out of nowhere. Then to balance it back off, give us back the hipfire accuracy for all bows and snipers. 

I agree. The flightspeed buff was some bizarre, left-field tweaking that didn't really need to happen. I like to cite it as an example of how the PvP dev team doesn't really seem to read the forum feedback...or perhaps they extract a seriously different meaning from the words than most people.

[Sygnals]

10 hours ago, 14159265358979323846 said:

and, yes, daikyu's flight speed definitely should be reverted to 150m/s, similarly other bows should be reverted back to its original flightspeed before that stupid buff that came out of nowhere. Then to balance it back off, give us back the hipfire accuracy for all bows and snipers. 

 

 I agree that Daikyu had good flight speed and didn't require any buff but a 35% increase its not game breaking and its definitely not made it a hit-scan weapon.

 Flight speed  buff was necessary for every other bows and if you disagree try to use Dread, it still has the old flight speed because was not changed, probably because its Stalker's weapon.

 Not having 100% accuracy while hipfire balance the pace of the game since now you need to aim and slow down if you want 100% accuracy or hipfire if you want to maintain your speed at the cost of having less accuracy.

I look forward to see you using Dread since you like so much slow flight speed arrows.

[Leyers_of_facade]

2 hours ago, Sygnals said:

 

 I agree that Daikyu had good flight speed and didn't require any buff but a 35% increase its not game breaking and its definitely not made it a hit-scan weapon.

 Flight speed  buff was necessary for every other bows and if you disagree try to use Dread, it still has the old flight speed because was not changed, probably because its Stalker's weapon.

 Not having 100% accuracy while hipfire balance the pace of the game since now you need to aim and slow down if you want 100% accuracy or hipfire if you want to maintain your speed at the cost of having less accuracy.

I look forward to see you using Dread since you like so much slow flight speed arrows.

I think you probably don't know this but the flight speed of paris (prime) and daikyu pre buff is 120 and 150 respectively. That is more than enough for anyone decent, and I did use those 2 weapons interchangeably throughout as well as continuously try out different mod sets on them. (even now)

35% increase is actually more than what you think it is 150m/s -> 202.5 m/s. Sure, 202.5 is not hitscan, but in reality, with a flight speed of that, anything within 20m will take less than 0.1 second, that is already close to hitscan, even better if it is point blank range. Daikyu's strong damage at close range makes it easy for people to go shotgun style with it rather than using it as a mid / long range weapon as it was supposed to be. The best way to "fix" daikyu will be to reduce point blank, but reward better mid / long range shots.

Oh, and I did try dread before all the flight speed buff, it feels "normal" and aside from its funny arsenal number (against actual damage) I see no benefit to using it over my paris prime or even mk1 paris / paris.

Inaccuracy during hipfire doesn't balance the pace of the game, what it does is make fights go RNG. It is what pains the more skilled player as they shots will go off the target they have shot at, for a weapon that requires time to charge up per shot, it heavily damages skillplay and if you have played against any good players, you would have realize that slowing down may not always be the best choice unless you are going with the tank meta (Tanks or semi-tanks are still more viable than lights in general as of now). To be honest, if you like RNG shots and higher flight speed, why don't you use lucky shot on all your bows, it will be a perfect match for your playing style.

Seeing how your profile shows you joined for just a bit more than 1 month, unless you are on a smurf account, I don't think you know fully how the bows are before the nerf. Making daikyu a easier to use weapon rather than making it rewarding for good plays is a recipe for disaster.

[Guest Pun-chee]

2 hours ago, 14159265358979323846 said:

Oh, and I did try dread before all the flight speed buff, it feels "normal" and aside from its funny arsenal number (against actual damage) I see no benefit to using it over my paris prime or even mk1 paris / paris.

Dread has a "hidden feature", it does a "forced Bleed proc" (5dmg per tick, 5 ticks - fully charged, 3 if not fully charged) that bypasses shields. But Dread has another serious problem, which i reported months ago (the week it was introduced to Conclave), which is not fixed yet, unfortunately.