Exalted Blade Changes

[Draymarc]

I know full well I'm not the first to think this but...E blade needs to be changed. So many players simply press 4 to win, when the rest of Excal's kit could be used for a better, more team-friendly effect. It's a powerful ability, and I'm not talking about a nerf to it at all. The thing that, in my opinion, would make the ability more balanced is to remove the blade waves...at least, on every attack. Hear me out.

Excalibur is a swordsman. Yet when I use exalted blade I feel like I've been turned into a walking turret. That shoots through walls. Having innate blade waves on every attack breaks the swordsman feel to me, and it ruins excaliburs feel for me. The rework for E-Blade I had in mind came when I was doing some melee only runs with him just for fun. You see, I'd use my nikana throughout most of the mission, using Slash Dash for mobility, and radial blind/javelin if i needed to thin the crowd a little. I noticed I was only using E-Blade when i needed range. I propose this:

The blade waves are removed from normal attacks, but each successful hit using the Exalted Blade builds up some sort of energy bar. This limits excaliburs range while using the blade. However, to counter this, add in a new feature to E-Blades moveset: a charge attack. During, after, or even in the middle of a combo, you could wind up, and release a percentage of that energy bar to release one, large wave. It would retain the trait of ignoring walls, however it would be wider than the blade waves we know today. Enemies not killed would be stunned, and left open to attack (but not finishers). It would make players using exalted blade actually have to think. The blade waves are strong, to the point you dont need a whole slew of them to get the job done. Focusing the blade waves into one or two well timed and aimed strikes would, in my opinion, reduce the spam-ey-ness of the ability, and add more depth to Excaliburs playstyle.

[AKKILLA]

I dont think removing the waves at all would help Exalted Blade. I would prefer to shorten the waves and remove the infinite punchthrough and wall trespass it offers.

If You remove the waves what Makes Eblade more desirable then a simple melee? Scindo Prime will out match it. Its not a normal Melee weapon Im sure alot will say its not a rifle or a Fluctus but remember its an ability weapon not a normal melee weapon. It does what its intended to do.

 

This community went too far. EGGSALTED BLADE OP

[AKKILLA]

The Eggsalted Hate is Real!

 

Yet everyone was sooo excited about Excaliburs rework last year now everyone hates it?

[Xarteros]

If I were to change EB, I'd make it so only an actual melee hit releases a wave. I love having a ranged effect incorporated into it, it gives him a bit more versatility, but I feel like it's more of a ranged effect with melee built in. I actually thought of a charge attack wave before I even read up to that point in your post, so I'd definitely say put that in, it still lets you launch a ranged attack in any direction you desire (which is why the diversity is so nice, letting us hit flying enemies/sensor bars etc) but without feeling as cheesy and spammy as a can of spam with cheese.

I'd also make it like Artemis Bow, only draining energy on hits, so people don't feel the need to spam everywhere quite as much. The energy cost per hit would need to be reflective of that, and charge attack waves would need to cost even if they don't hit any enemies. Not having an energy drain over time means you don't have to worry as much about your energy levels and you can feel more confident about using your other abilities more. 

If the melee mode itself isn't powerful enough, tweak it. It should have some form of benefit beyond just damage, and you should never be able to surpass/match it just with a normal melee weapon.

[--Q--uaint]

1 hour ago, Draymarc said:

a charge attack

It already has charge attacks, btw. All melees do.

1 hour ago, Draymarc said:

Focusing the blade waves into one or two well timed and aimed strikes would, in my opinion, reduce the spam-ey-ness of the ability, and add more depth to Excaliburs playstyle.

I like it. An alternative would be only launching waves when you do channeled attacks, and charge energy for the privilege.

1 hour ago, AKKILLA said:

Scindo Prime will out match it

There is only one situation where I'd agree with that, and it’s using the Shadow Debt mods to their fullest extent for some whacked-out DPS. The funny thing is, Exalted Blade hits harder, faster, and is more critty than Scindo Prime. If the waves were removed limited in some strong way, I'd have little problem with the Shadow Debt mods working with EB… which would make it waaaay stronger than Scindo Prime at all levels.

It also has autoblocking and can block while attacking.

37 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

If the melee mode itself isn’t powerful enough, tweak it.

It already is.

[Ivan_Rid]

Make only charge attacks and combo triggers release energy waves. Problem somewhat solved.

[-Temp0-]

No it does not. Like for f sake, each time DE actually fixes a broken ability or useless warframe to something truly balanced (and that meaning exactly being viable both in level <30 and level 60-80 with the right mods), it takes a couple of months and people start whining and propose to nerf it back because suddenly it's "press x to win" and "too good for this game".

Excalibur is a swordsman, but not a type like Valkyr or Chroma that can only use short-ranged attacks with their melee. That's not to mention he's nowhere near as tanky as those 2, so removing the waves from EB (along with making his RB LoS ability which already happened) will make his survivability non-existent in any mission with enemies' lvl above 30.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[Epsik-kun]

11 hours ago, Draymarc said:

turned into a walking turret

Try using Excal on the actual high level content he is designed around. Scary thing about EBlade isn't the waves, it's its close-range potential. The statement that you can be a turret on Mercury is a moot, as there's a load of frames who can easily outperform EBlade Excal on Mercury, including RJ Excal.

10 hours ago, ChronoEclipse said:

It already has charge attacks, btw. All melees do.

EBlade doesn't have a charge attack.

 

Also:

My comprehensive Exalted Blade suggestion

[--Q--uaint]

Just now, Epsik-kun said:

EBlade doesn’t have a charge attack.

Oh, it’s a hold-combo. Same difference? lol

[Navarc]

I was thinking of something similar. The energy slashes should only be cast from charging, which makes you slowed down or even stationary when charging up.
It already gives him radial blind for free when enter 4, then he does infinite damage across the entire map while blinding his allies? Come on, he's ridiculous as he is now.

[OzoneSlayer]

or simply make waves only form when channeling to give ppl a reason to do it and fix how each enemy hit by the wave consumes energy

[-Temp0-]

16 minutes ago, Navarchus said:

I was thinking of something similar. The energy slashes should only be cast from charging, which makes you slowed down or even stationary when charging up.

Makes no f sense in a game like Warframe. Whatsoever. It's like Mesa 2.0, absolute garbage + the fact that he doesn't even have her shatter shield to compensate for that bs.

Quote

It already gives him radial blind for free when enter 4, then he does infinite damage across the entire map while blinding his allies? Come on, he's ridiculous as he is now.

Yep. Everyone should be as awesome as Hydroid - with the most useful ability being able to turn into a puddle. 

17 minutes ago, OzoneSlayer said:

or simply make waves only form when channeling to give ppl a reason to do it and fix how each enemy hit by the wave consumes energy

People already have "reason" for that - life strike, like it is with all melee warframes/melee only setups.

[OzoneSlayer]

1 hour ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

 

People already have "reason" for that - life strike, like it is with all melee warframes/melee only setups.

My point is that no one uses it for the damage output at all, and you supported my claim so i proposed giving channeling more utility could be a start

[-Temp0-]

9 minutes ago, OzoneSlayer said:

My point is that no one uses it for the damage output at all, and you supported my claim so i proposed giving channeling more utility could be a start

Aka making it insane energy drain for no reason (because it's a channeling ability already,which takes your energy over time as it is and now isn't immune to energy leeching+can't get energy from EV while it's active) and forcing people just use their tonkor instead aka doing the same thing DE did to Mesa (due to the salty people whining too much), aka just basically doing it out of hate and spite because "someone is stealing our kills and in general doing fine while we're dying on the floor here or can't do the same amount of damage because we don't use damage-dealing frames - and you shouldn't too".

Edited April 17, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Oh wow..another 1 of these.

So, question is what are you gonna do on an Eximus Stronghold mission when before you reach them, your Exalted Blade with no waves, turns into smoke?

Kill them fast enough? Okay, I will take that argument.

What if it's on a Sortie?

 

Sorry but the waves stay.

And enough with the "people play not in the way I want them to so I'm gonna change the whole frame to force them to play it the way I want them to" argument or the "Excalibur is a melee frame so he can't have range attacks" argument. I don't spam the waves and I still run up to the enemies so I can use the blade portion as well and I'm doing that even now with the waves on, so what's stopping people from doing that and why stop them from spamming?

Why waste the developers' time on trying to fix something that's not broken (there's a difference between powerful and overpowered - Excaliburs can still die from squishiness and running out of energy from its small energy pool) when we have other frames that are even more broken like Blind Mirage (you can meditate the entire match if you have a Blind Mirage with you on an Interception sortie even with enemies at level 100)?

There are so many frames that are just as strong but you don't see people complaining about them. What about Limbos being able to revive the entire team without a single scratch like Valkyrs (Invulnerable, Life Steal)? What about Ash just point and click and everything dies (finisher damage completely ignores enemies' armor)? What about Bless Trinities giving the entire squad almost complete invulnerablitiy?

I think the solution is simple, lock Excalibur behind Mastery Level 10 and I'm pretty sure we have less of these threads because frankly the reason I see is that too many new players have access to it and they are just to eager to jump on the forums to offer their feedback based off the starchart.

Oberon parts are dropping like flies these days, why don't we replace Oberon with Excalibur as a starter and keep Excalibur for at the end of the starchart?

Edited April 17, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[EX-Zanki]

The problem with using Exalted Blade comes from the habit of using ONLY Exalted Blade, it doesn't need to be Team Friendly, we already have Radial Blind for that, Exalted Blade is a powerful tool, but its also a trap, unless used along with its other abilities you will eventually be out gunned, i think is better to look not only to one ability of any warframe but the complete set, and the set is very potent and really good if used on know-how hands...

Exalted blade only users will be eventually a problem for the team in high level missions.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

7 minutes ago, EX-Zanki said:

The problem with using Exalted Blade comes from the habit of using ONLY Exalted Blade, it doesn't need to be Team Friendly, we already have Radial Blind for that, Exalted Blade is a powerful tool, but its also a trap, unless used along with its other abilities you will eventually be out gunned, i think is better to look not only to one ability of any warframe but the complete set, and the set is very potent and really good if used on know-how hands...

Exalted blade only users will be eventually a problem for the team in high level missions.

Exalted Blade comes with radial blind and 2 knockdown CC abilities installed.

Frankly, the only skill that is completely useless apart from on Draco is Radial Javelin.

If you hold E while you swing Exalted Blade for 4 times, you can knock down every enemy hit by the last wave and with the infinite punch through, that's a lot of enemies.

The sliding blind is really easy to use and though the range isn't as good as Radial Blind, it is still really good CC.

Radial Blind is extremely good CC with good range (not taking the LOS nerf into account) and the finisher attack if you have Exalted Blade on is great.

Slash Dash is awesome mobility and great damage, especially if you have Exalted Blade on as well.

Radial Javelin staggers enemies for a third of a sec and deals barely any damage on sorties.

Sidenote: Exalted Blade if you just spam E and not use the combos deals little damage to the armoured enemies on sorties as well.

 

Personally, I don't see why an ability that lets you deal damage and CC at the same time isn't team friendly but that's my opinion and I respect yours as well.

Edited April 17, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[OzoneSlayer]

3 hours ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Aka making it insane energy drain for no reason (because it's a channeling ability already,which takes your energy over time as it is and now isn't immune to energy leeching+can't get energy from EV while it's active) and forcing people just use their tonkor instead aka doing the same thing DE did to Mesa (due to the salty people whining too much), aka just basically doing it out of hate and spite because "someone is stealing our kills and in general doing fine while we're dying on the floor here or can't do the same amount of damage because we don't use damage-dealing frames - and you shouldn't too".

enrgy consumption isn't that difficult to adjust and you dont have to channel on every swing dude.

[-Temp0-]

It is hard to adjsut because many useless mods for that which consumes precious space needed for actual mods. Having energy efficiency both on your weapon and frame is just what the actual f. Just a way to ruin an ability, making people to choose another frame that doesn't need so much bs dancing around for his abilities to actually kill/CC something or use their aoe weapons like they already do. 

Don't need to channel on every swing? Well I already don't need that whenever I use excal or just any other frame. What a bummer.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio

[OzoneSlayer]

2 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

It is hard to adjsut because many useless mods for that which consumes precious space needed for actual mods. Having energy efficiency both on your weapon and frame is just what the actual f. Just a way to ruin an ability, making people to choose another frame that doesn't need so much bs dancing around for his abilities to actually kill/CC something or use their aoe weapons like they already do. 

Don't need to channel on every swing? Well I already don't need that whenever I use excal or just any other frame. What a bummer.

I'm saying all DE has to do is change a couple of numbers to fix energy efficiency for channeling, and also channeling needs an overhaul in damage so this would be a start to making it useful mate. No you don't 'Have' to do anything but making it a viable mechanic (an optional one at that) is benefiting gameplay

[-Temp0-]

Channelig is freaking bad. Better just to remove it at all, in a game where energy = everything and where the devs want to make melee more appealing life strike for example (main reason to bother with this underdeveloped mechanic) should be innate part of it by default, melee damage and which is even more important combos must be just better overall. Channeling itself is just shouldn't be a thing. Buff the damage/nerf energy consumption of channeling all you want, it's still more than useless in comparisson to damage abilities or weapon damage because it's just a pain to use. And it has no place in excal's ult, even if you reduce energy consumption, that's just stupid having energy drain on EB + energy drain with forced channeling to get the same effect as EB has now. Again, basically for no reason. Other than making your life more difficult for using it, that is.

[OzoneSlayer]

2 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Channelig is freaking bad. Better just to remove it at all, in a game where energy = everything and where the devs want to make melee more appealing life strike for example (main reason to bother with this underdeveloped mechanic) should be innate part of it by default, melee damage and which is even more important combos must be just better overall. Channeling itself is just shouldn't be a thing. Buff the damage/nerf energy consumption of channeling all you want, it's still more than useless in comparisson to damage abilities or weapon damage because it's just a pain to use. And it has no place in excal's ult, even if you reduce energy consumption, that's just stupid having energy drain on EB + energy drain with forced channeling to get the same effect as EB has now. Again, basically for no reason. Other than making your life more difficult for using it, that is.

So instead of improving upon an existing element it's better to scrap it? They didn't scrap excal, but instead reworked him to make him viable. Stop being so negative against a mechanic that of course needs tweaks but has the potential to be great

[-Temp0-]

It doesn't need "tweaks" it needs a complete rework. As well as a whole melee system, starting with the combos. And since it needs "tweaks", it sure as hell doesn't need to be a part of a warframe's ability or ability mechanic that was literally just redone and is complete now and useful, so I've no idea why the hell would someone bring channeling into this topic. 

[OzoneSlayer]

1 hour ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

It doesn't need "tweaks" it needs a complete rework. As well as a whole melee system, starting with the combos. And since it needs "tweaks", it sure as hell doesn't need to be a part of a warframe's ability or ability mechanic that was literally just redone and is complete now and useful, so I've no idea why the hell would someone bring channeling into this topic. 

I agree it needs an overhaul, but you sir need to sit down and think. You are just stating why you hate channeling without offering any suggestions to fix the mechanic and instead criticizing my solutions, while also getting riled up for no reason whatsoever.. I'm not an expert on game design, I am here to offer my stance on situations. You specifically stated channeling should not exist and refuse to both consider solutions or offer them. Your treating the matter like it's something that cannot be dealt with. If you don't like an idea you are very well in your right entitled to that opinion, but please chill tenno 

Edited April 17, 2016 by OzoneSlayer

[-Temp0-]

9 hours ago, OzoneSlayer said:

I agree it needs an overhaul, but you sir need to sit down and think. You are just stating why you hate channeling without offering any suggestions to fix the mechanic and instead criticizing my solutions

I don't "hate" channeling. I hate suggestion that EB needs it in any way either to deal damage or to release waves. Because it does not. EB is more than fine the way it is.

As for fixing it, many problems could've been solved if -

1. channeling was a part of a melee system (at the very least "melee only" i.e. if you bring only melee it won't consume energy or consumes very little amount like something close to 0,5-0,25 per sec or per hit.

2. was a toggle "ability", because too many d*mn buttons you need to use at the same time when you're using a melee (as well as you need to make combos at the same time)

3. had innate life-strike effect (again, at least for "melee only").

Edited April 18, 2016 by Nomen_Nescio