Old Weapons & Dual Zoren, Buff or not To Buff

[Blood_Poppy]

I really Wish DE, review their weaponry arsenal catalog and Buff the underrated weapons especially Dual Zoren..

Why Dual Zoren..?

It Have Massive Collection of Skins, and one of popular weapons used in 2015* and it sad to see it stay in my Arsenal, collecting dust..

 

*2014 or 2015, kind of forgot...

[zokurazor]

I agree with this. I just made the multi-blade skin for the Dual Zorens (on an alert yesterday) and it looks awesome. I get the progression of the game and see how there's no real competition with things like Dual Ichors once one can craft them. There's few reasons to go back to market purchased melee after reaching a certain level. Plus, despite it being a single blade, everyone now carries a broken-war in their melee spot (and for good reason, it's the best IMO). But, like you Blood, I'd like to see some kind of buff or adjustments made to the Dual Zorens to keep them relevant.

Many of those older weapons should either be put out of commission or buffed (I'm looking at you dual skana). Leaving them in game and/or attaching a plat price tag? It's like "pick a market melee, any one that looks cool, don't worry you'll only have it while you're new." Some may stink stat-wise but are still cool weapons of old. :)

Edited April 23, 2016 by zokurazor
Nostalgia factor

[DeadlyPeanutt]

lol, Dev could split the difference and make a new skin with a buff built in... new life for an old weapon and something new to grind for

[Blood_Poppy]

5 hours ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

lol, Dev could split the difference and make a new skin with a buff built in... new life for an old weapon and something new to grind for

like Good Old Brokk Hammer skin.. or Scindo Skin...

but i prefer the The Buff the weapon rather put it on the skin.. since i doesn't want to stick wearing the same skin just for a minor buff..

[Blood_Poppy]

6 hours ago, zokurazor said:

I agree with this. I just made the multi-blade skin for the Dual Zorens (on an alert yesterday) and it looks awesome. I get the progression of the game and see how there's no real competition with things like Dual Ichors once one can craft them. There's few reasons to go back to market purchased melee after reaching a certain level. Plus, despite it being a single blade, everyone now carries a broken-war in their melee spot (and for good reason, it's the best IMO). But, like you Blood, I'd like to see some kind of buff or adjustments made to the Dual Zorens to keep them relevant.

Many of those older weapons should either be put out of commission or buffed (I'm looking at you dual skana). Leaving them in game and/or attaching a plat price tag? It's like "pick a market melee, any one that looks cool, don't worry you'll only have it while you're new." Some may stink stat-wise but are still cool weapons of old. :)

thanks for sharing your View in this matter.. :D 

[NawtKool]

While many melee weapons in the game need a buff, and Dual Zoren does have an interestingly large amount of skins, I'd find it a little hard to justify buffing the Dual Zoren atm. 

First of all, it's mastery rank 2. If DE plans to make mastery rank mean anything to weapons in game, it'll be fine if the Dual Zoren stays weaker than the super powerful melee weapons. Also as a small additional point, it's incredibly easy to craft as a marketplace blueprint requiring easy materials. With this, it just makes it seem like it's built for newer players than to compete with high level powerhouses. 

But see, here's the thing: it almost does compete with high level powerhouses. Looking at its stats, it should be seen as a crit melee weapon, possessing 25% crit chance with 3x crit multiplier. In fact, the only weapons in the game that also match these numbers are the Prisma + Vanilla Dual Cleavers, Atterax, and Dual Ichor. These are the highest possible crit multipliers and the 2nd highest crit chances. The only higher crit chance belongs to the Tekko wtih 30%, but with a 2x multiplier, it's not as directly comparable. 

From the 25%/3x group, only the Atterax is not a dual sword. So let's drop that from the comparison. Let's also drop Vanilla Cleavers for now, since the Prisma version is a strict upgrade.

And this is what's interesting about this group: every single one of these dual swords has something going for it over each other. Prisma Dual Cleaver has a syndicate proc. Dual Ichor has pure toxin damage with respectable status. Dual Zoren? The fastest attacking one in the group. 

Now let me be clear, I'm not saying that the Dual Zoren is better, or even as good as these weapons. I personally think having the attack speed advantage is relatively meaningless when all these weapons can just user berserker. However, it's definitely still useable and, in my mind, far from needing a buff.

[Cortanis]

Much of the weapons in the game come in far under what they should even for their mastery ranks. I'd like to see a healthy buff applied to most of them and if not that, getting syndicate mods for the more notable ones.

[Blood_Poppy]

21 hours ago, NawtKool said:

While many melee weapons in the game need a buff, and Dual Zoren does have an interestingly large amount of skins, I'd find it a little hard to justify buffing the Dual Zoren atm. 

First of all, it's mastery rank 2. If DE plans to make mastery rank mean anything to weapons in game, it'll be fine if the Dual Zoren stays weaker than the super powerful melee weapons. Also as a small additional point, it's incredibly easy to craft as a marketplace blueprint requiring easy materials. With this, it just makes it seem like it's built for newer players than to compete with high level powerhouses. 

But see, here's the thing: it almost does compete with high level powerhouses. Looking at its stats, it should be seen as a crit melee weapon, possessing 25% crit chance with 3x crit multiplier. In fact, the only weapons in the game that also match these numbers are the Prisma + Vanilla Dual Cleavers, Atterax, and Dual Ichor. These are the highest possible crit multipliers and the 2nd highest crit chances. The only higher crit chance belongs to the Tekko wtih 30%, but with a 2x multiplier, it's not as directly comparable. 

From the 25%/3x group, only the Atterax is not a dual sword. So let's drop that from the comparison. Let's also drop Vanilla Cleavers for now, since the Prisma version is a strict upgrade.

And this is what's interesting about this group: every single one of these dual swords has something going for it over each other. Prisma Dual Cleaver has a syndicate proc. Dual Ichor has pure toxin damage with respectable status. Dual Zoren? The fastest attacking one in the group. 

Now let me be clear, I'm not saying that the Dual Zoren is better, or even as good as these weapons. I personally think having the attack speed advantage is relatively meaningless when all these weapons can just user berserker. However, it's definitely still useable and, in my mind, far from needing a buff.

thanks for your long opinion, i really respect your view on this issue, but yes, Dual Zoren are one of the highest attack speed weapon in game, but the Damage are too.. Medicore, relying on sliding attack + right mod setup.. 

i just wish they buff the damage a little.. so we can use it without relying too much on sliding attack..

[Blood_Poppy]

16 hours ago, Cortanis said:

Much of the weapons in the game come in far under what they should even for their mastery ranks. I'd like to see a healthy buff applied to most of them and if not that, getting syndicate mods for the more notable ones.

yep.. a small buff that doesn't jeopardize the balance of the game-play wouldn't bring harm..

[Darthmufin]

On 4/23/2016 at 4:45 AM, zokurazor said:

I agree with this. I just made the multi-blade skin for the Dual Zorens (on an alert yesterday) and it looks awesome. I get the progression of the game and see how there's no real competition with things like Dual Ichors once one can craft them. There's few reasons to go back to market purchased melee after reaching a certain level. Plus, despite it being a single blade, everyone now carries a broken-war in their melee spot (and for good reason, it's the best IMO). But, like you Blood, I'd like to see some kind of buff or adjustments made to the Dual Zorens to keep them relevant.

Many of those older weapons should either be put out of commission or buffed (I'm looking at you dual skana). Leaving them in game and/or attaching a plat price tag? It's like "pick a market melee, any one that looks cool, don't worry you'll only have it while you're new." Some may stink stat-wise but are still cool weapons of old. :)

Dual zoren are probably the best melee weapons for newer players due to their high speed and critical chance. Why would you want to take out every weapon in the game that doesn't instakill below level 40? That's a stupid argument if that is what you are making. 

 

[zokurazor]

1 hour ago, Darthmufin said:

Dual zoren are probably the best melee weapons for newer players due to their high speed and critical chance. Why would you want to take out every weapon in the game that doesn't instakill below level 40? That's a stupid argument if that is what you are making. 

 

Level 40? Did I say remove every weapon in the game that doesn't instakill? I was basically agreeing with the OP on "changes," I was offering two possibilities for older items.

Having just picked up the game recently after an extended break, I can say that low level gameplay doesn't last long. It isn't a stupid argument: reaching rank 30 on a frame (even having more than one frame) *and* advancing MR isn't time consuming in the slightest. 

I realize that not all the weapons on the market can be outstanding. They shouldn't be. Choices are fun to have. But it seems to me that there are many entry level and/or older weapons that don't see buffs or have stats that reflect updates made to the game since their release. That's what my point was, I didn't mean to imply that they should outdo each other in terms damage/insta-kill. 

@Nawtkool you make a good point with the base speed being what makes up for any damage difference with DZ compared to Ichors for instance. I'll try them again. :D

Edited April 25, 2016 by zokurazor
Clarifying :P

[GinKenshin]

if you have a problem with the dmg, you can go full crit, blood rush+body count made every melee very strong, and the dual zoren is already a very good weapon. I don't expect DE to buff it (from little knowledge I have on DE over the years) or prime it (we have scindo prime, which is 2 zorens combined...so it's enough. we also have a dual sword prime weapon, the dual kama. and DE currently only prime melees categories that don't have primes yet...like the recent fragor prime) 

[ClinkzEastwood]

Mastery rank means zack. Zhuge is mr 0 and it's one of the best gun in the game.

There are many melee weapons which in dire need of buffs. Dual Zoren is one of them.

What a shame, there are so many good looking but crappy weapons. Like Dex Dakra. So beautiful, yet the only viable way to use is sliding like a mad man.

[Blood_Poppy]

thanks for the Opinions..

[Darthmufin]

14 hours ago, zokurazor said:

Level 40? Did I say remove every weapon in the game that doesn't instakill? I was basically agreeing with the OP on "changes," I was offering two possibilities for older items.

Having just picked up the game recently after an extended break, I can say that low level gameplay doesn't last long. It isn't a stupid argument: reaching rank 30 on a frame (even having more than one frame) *and* advancing MR isn't time consuming in the slightest. 

I realize that not all the weapons on the market can be outstanding. They shouldn't be. Choices are fun to have. But it seems to me that there are many entry level and/or older weapons that don't see buffs or have stats that reflect updates made to the game since their release. That's what my point was, I didn't mean to imply that they should outdo each other in terms damage/insta-kill. 

@Nawtkool you make a good point with the base speed being what makes up for any damage difference with DZ compared to Ichors for instance. I'll try them again. :D

They don't need a buff though, no matter what you "meant" to say. 

[zokurazor]

1 hour ago, Darthmufin said:

They don't need a buff though, no matter what you "meant" to say. 

What's with you? This topic was about the OP's opinion. I agreed with his/her opinion and gave my opinion on older weapons available through the market. That was my opinion whether *you* agree with it or not. Your posts are coming off as antagonistic. I'm done responding to this potential drama pit.

Edited April 25, 2016 by zokurazor

[Blood_Poppy]

**Throw Salt..

[traybong111]

There are many older weapons that could use a buff, yes, but I don't think Dual Zoren is one of them. It's a solid mid-tier dual sword (still one of my favored picks for 40-60 range T3&4 survivals) and for its price it's arguably one of the best bang-for-your-buck melee weapons along with vanilla Dual Cleavers and Orthos Prime. Nami Skyla demands much more resources than Dual Zoren and is vastly outperformed by DZ, not to mention Twin Basolk that has DZ as its building material and yet falls extremely behind. There are many more weapons that warrant significant buffs way before Dual Zoren, like majority of alert-only weapons (Dark Sword, Heat Sword, Pangolin Sword, Plasma Sword) and resource-intensive clan research weapons (Nami Skyla, Shaku, Silva & Aegis, all Machetes, and this is just the melee weapons). 

In any category there's going to be the weapon with highest possible DPS, and the "baseline" with lower DPS. Not every weapon can or should be endgame or top tier. As much as I love Gram, I know it's going to stay as the "baby's first" heavy blade weapon, thus the weakest compared to Galatine, Scindo and War. However, for a weapon meant to be the weakest in its category it still chops up enemies past level 50 with ease. I wouldn't mind a minor buff to damage, sure, but I believe both Dual Zoren and Gram perform really well within what DE defines as "high level" (past 60). If anything other melee weapons need catching up to Dual Zoren. 

Edited April 27, 2016 by traybong111