[Operation: Cornucopia] Make Count What We Kill (Adjust Drop Tables For Mobs).

[Ced23Ric]

Hey there,

 

this is part of the masterthread [Operation: Cornucopia] Fixing The Farming. Addressing a subset of the overarching problem, which has also been mentioned here and here, of resource drops for crucial resources being disheartening/frustrating, I'd like to propose a simple, yet effective change to how materials drop.

• Split enemies into logical groups.

  These groups might be "sub trash", "trash mobs", "elites", "bosses". Examples, for each of the four groups: Rollers, Chargers, Fusion MOA, Vay Hek.

• 
  

Next up, these groups need individual drop tables regarding resources.

• Put the value where the difficulty is.

  sub trash = drops ammo, maybe credits

  trash mobs = drops ammo, health/energy, mods, common & uncommon resources, faction resources.

  elites = drops health/energy, mods, uncommon & rare resources, faction resources.

  boss = drops mods, rare resources, blueprints.

• 
  

As you can see, trash mobs no longer have a chance for rare resources, but can be used without qualms to farm for common resources. Bosses, on the other hand, do not drop faction or less-than-rare resources. Faction resources needs to be farmed in the hundreds to build weapons, and even more for research. Putting those one a singular mob per mission is both inconsequential for achieving the need for faction resources and also blocking the much more rewarding/sought after rare resource. Elites are somewhere in the middle in this. Whatever they drop resource-wise, it is at least uncommon, and they should have a tangible chance for a rare resource. Faction resource, too, but certainly less "spammy". Sub trash has no relevance for resources.

 

These changes would make killing an elite or a boss rewarding again, would make people hunt ancients rather than avoid them on speed runs and would dampen the current frustration of a boss droping a detonite ampule or Ferrite. Given the low drop rates of blueprints (other topic, please don't discuss that here. :/), getting a resource that's common or easily obtainable yet ultimately not in high demand is quite frustrating. Especially for those who don't run 30/potato/forma*4 gear.

 

/discuss

 

Addition:

Additional thought, which I found t be quite good: Move faction materials into their own loot-slot. Spread them over the four groups with varying drop chances, but don't let Detonite Ampules eat up the slot for Neurodes. The saturation is eventually there and the faction materials become dead drops. If they would be additional, that'd be fine. If they are pushing other materials away, they are actually detrimental.

[MrSuperAwesome]

I love this idea, very well thought out.

[Tsukinoki]

The only caveat I would like to see if they did separate the loot drops like this is making the elite units a bit more common at that point. I can go through plenty of missions without running across an elite Grineer unit, even at some of the higher levels it can happen, and this has the potential to cut down on the amount of uncommon and rare resources you can get.

On the other hand it shouldn't be buffed up too much otherwise you will end up getting too much uncommon resources.

But regardless there would need to be a new spawn rates for the elite mobs for this to work out nicely. And while I do understand that I can still get all of the resources from breaking boxes and such, I am worried about this overall negatively impacting the drop rate of uncommon resources, while making rare resources easier to farm due to boss runs.

[GTG3000]

Killing a boss right now is about as rewarding as it is challenging, lol.

[General-Griffin]

I don't think it would be that hard as somewhere there must be a status that they can add a each unit to then add a column for rank which links to those loot tables. Split up the loot tables in to those so the current loot system would need a total transfer and link through. This would mean though that high level  trash mobs would only drop ammo and health so on xini until around wave 12 you don't have that many ancients so it would decrease the loot output in that way but farmers who persevere would have a mega chance with all the ancients.

 

the Ratings on the drops would all have to be changed as well as if you only get the materials of ancients or the other items to there respective bands it would kill me to have the drop rate at it's current rate now.

 

It could be done but looking at it now it could be a fair bit of work.

Edited June 13, 2013 by General-Griffin

[unmog]

Killing a boss right now is about as rewarding as it is challenging, lol.

Gotta keep in mind, not everyone is the same level as everyone else, not in skill and not in level. I remember when I just started the bosses were friggen impossible. Now I think Im getting to the point where I can solo most of them. If they make the bosses even harder new people will be crippled.

 

The main point is bosses should give better loot. I think this suggestion would help.

[bualeminkrali]

better to keep a really small chance to drop (%0.017 maybe, DE style) rares for any kind of mob, that surprise factor will keep bashing standard mob entertaining. 

[Reichmar]

I am very much in favor of distinguishing between mob classes for drop tables.

 

I think that these adjustments combined with tinkering of difficulty levels of the mobs would have a fundamentally positive impact on the game and really help players identify differences in the ranks of Corpus/Grineer/etc. 

 

If we also restrict energy orbs to higher difficulty mobs as you've suggested, it'll make Ult-spamming less common as well. In my opinion, that would have a positive impact on gameplay as well.

 

100% in favor.

[GTG3000]

Gotta keep in mind, not everyone is the same level as everyone else, not in skill and not in level. I remember when I just started the bosses were friggen impossible. Now I think Im getting to the point where I can solo most of them. If they make the bosses even harder new people will be crippled.

 

The main point is bosses should give better loot. I think this suggestion would help.

 

Well, sure. First time you run through the bosses they are tough as nails. And then you run them again. And again. And again. And all of a sudden they are about as threatening as having to eat chewy meat.

 

I would gladly switch running one boss for days to get something specific for really tough bosses that have a guaranteed rewarding drop.

[Reichmar]

Well, sure. First time you run through the bosses they are tough as nails. And then you run them again. And again. And again. And all of a sudden they are about as threatening as having to eat chewy meat.

 

I would gladly switch running one boss for days to get something specific for really tough bosses that have a guaranteed rewarding drop.

 

I agree. I'm in favor of upping the difficulty of mobs that reward mats/prints/ better mods/ etc.

[Ced23Ric]

The issue I have right now is that dropping Vay Hek, regardless of individual effort, is more effort than a lancer. Never the less, I can get the same mats from each. Same with Heavies. There is no sense of ... reliability in killing harder enemies, because they seem to drop the same stuff. If elites had better drops, I'd gladly engage Ancients instead of rushing past them to the Golem, only to get a Mutagen mass from him and repeat the mission because I didn't get any Neurodes.

 

And yes, that includes Masterthief maxed, Thief's Wit, every crate broken and every locker opened.

[Reichmar]

The issue I have right now is that dropping Vay Hek, regardless of individual effort, is more effort than a lancer. Never the less, I can get the same mats from each. Same with Heavies. There is no sense of ... reliability in killing harder enemies, because they seem to drop the same stuff. If elites had better drops, I'd gladly engage Ancients instead of rushing past them to the Golem, only to get a Mutagen mass from him and repeat the mission because I didn't get any Neurodes.

 

And yes, that includes Masterthief maxed, Thief's Wit, every crate broken and every locker opened.

 

Cedric, I like the ideas. In addition to tough mobs being more rewarding at a basic level. there was another thread that suggested possible random packs of more elite mobs with special abilities (basically Diablo-style random packs with affixes). They'd exist in addition to the Ancients, the Bombards, etc. That would add additional flavor to the missions and make EVERY SINGLE ONE desirable to [re]run.

 

Thoughts?

Edited June 13, 2013 by Reichmar

[Ced23Ric]

The concept of what my buddies and I used to call "Magical Groups", yeah. One unique mob, surrounded by a flock of guards, in the middle of the mission, somewhere, being a roadblock of sorts. Loving that addition, too.

 

Lotus: "Something's wrong. There is a VIP and his entourage in your way."

 

Make it happen, DE.

[Reichmar]

The concept of what my buddies and I used to call "Magical Groups", yeah. One unique mob, surrounded by a flock of guards, in the middle of the mission, somewhere, being a roadblock of sorts. Loving that addition, too.

 

Lotus: "Something's wrong. There is a VIP and his entourage in your way."

 

Make it happen, DE.

 

I like how you think...

 

I see this being a good way of helping to distribute materials and it's also easily able to be scaled up in difficulty as new end-game content is added.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Reichmar

[Excitonex]

The concept of what my buddies and I used to call "Magical Groups", yeah. One unique mob, surrounded by a flock of guards, in the middle of the mission, somewhere, being a roadblock of sorts. Loving that addition, too.

 

Lotus: "Something's wrong. There is a VIP and his entourage in your way."

 

Make it happen, DE.

While I don't want to see a change in how resources drop I would support the unique/mini-boss enemy. I don't think a change in how resources drop is going to do much other than make people skip the enemies that don't drop what they want. This could cause an even larger explorer/rusher problem than we have currently.

[Ced23Ric]

I don't think a change in how resources drop is going to do much other than make people skip the enemies that don't drop what they want. This could cause an even larger explorer/rusher problem than we have currently.

 

Not at all. You either avoid all enemies or none. They come in bubbles anyway. The scope of this thread is shifting weighted resource drops on enemies according to their difficulty, so reward scales with effort and RNG is soft-replaced with predictable output - just like the Defense rewards are now.

[Shwamp]

Very much like this idea, especially if it increases the flavor of the heavies.  And bosses only dropping rare materials?  Even if it isn't a guaranteed chance(which it shouldn't be) I won't feel cheated when they drop ferrite, mutagen, etc.

[Reichmar]

Bumping this for more feedback. Its an important building point for the game.

[Davoodoo]

Theres one problem. If you increase drops as you described there will be no problem with getting mats. Ppl will get everything during a week of hardcore farm and what then?? They gonna quit, cause developers wont be able to keep up with new content.

Rare resources should be rare and might be hard to get at same time(hard boss etc.)

Unless you can find solution for this problem its not a good idea.

[unmog]

Theres one problem. If you increase drops as you described there will be no problem with getting mats. Ppl will get everything during a week of hardcore farm and what then?? They gonna quit, cause developers wont be able to keep up with new content.

Rare resources should be rare and might be hard to get at same time(hard boss etc.)

Unless you can find solution for this problem its not a good idea.

He's only suggesting loot be dropped based on enemy type, the game seems to spawn them already where theres more weaker enemies and less elites. So his suggestion wouldnt make it easier to get materials, it would make it that certain enemies drop only certain stuff, instead of everyone dropping everything.

Edited June 14, 2013 by unmog

[GTG3000]

Theres one problem. If you increase drops as you described there will be no problem with getting mats. Ppl will get everything during a week of hardcore farm and what then?? They gonna quit, cause developers wont be able to keep up with new content.

Rare resources should be rare and might be hard to get at same time(hard boss etc.)

Unless you can find solution for this problem its not a good idea.

 

I know most of my clan almost quit the game because of all the hardcore farming that is required RIGHT NOW to get anywere. Ced's suggestion would at least bring some certainty.

[fatfree]

In general I like this idea, but I think that mods should drop from all enemies, but the rarity of the mods should vary per group. For example, rare mods should drop more often from elite mobs and less from normal mobs.

 

Theoretically, I think this was supposed to be the way drops were done, but in practice I don't see any difference in rarity between the mods I get from common mods and elites.

Edited June 14, 2013 by fatfree

[Ced23Ric]

Rare resources should be rare and might be hard to get at same time(hard boss etc.)

 

Only that it doesn't work that way. You don't get rare resources with any measure of certainty from bosses. There is no challenge/reward correlation, which is what I am addressing. In all actuality, my suggestion does what you are saying, whereas the current state is not what you are saying, come to think of it. :D

[NotaCobra]

I complain a lot, can't complain about this.

 

 

The only thing I would contemplate changing would be to weigh in on the possibility of updating this sytem;

 

You mention faction resources, and at present there are only 3 of these (1 for each faction), but if additional faction resources were added, it could eventually reach the point where specific enemies have individual drop tables.

 

Additional matts may not be added, or may just be planet specific as the current system, but it could be interesting to specifically seek out levels with lots of napalm launchers for their "Pyrolystic gel" or what have you.

[Krate]

I'm sure you hear this a lot, but that was one of the best PvP suggestions I've seen/heard yet.