I Am Sick Of Defense Heroes.

[fishworshipper]

I think most of this "defense hero" S#&$ would be cleared up if we had a game mode where we just got to kill stuff without having to defend a stupid cryopod.

Cause when I'm on a defense mission, I'm there to kill things, not to sit at a cryopod waiting for things to finally meander around near me.

[Fuilteach]

I think most of this "defense hero" S#&$ would be cleared up if we had a game mode where we just got to kill stuff without having to defend a stupid cryopod.

Cause when I'm on a defense mission, I'm there to kill things, not to sit at a cryopod waiting for things to finally meander around near me.

Exterminate?

[Mak_Gohae]

I think you're reading a different thread.

He's talking about the people who leave everyone else to defend the pod while they go to the spawn.

 

 

No it's the same thread but you seemed to have missed some key details.

He doesnt like people going off because he wants XP, he is playing defense missions to get the most XP possible and he wants everyone to play in a way that accommodates him.

 

 

Also, the only benefit to doing that is to hog the kills... it doesn't make it faster (it often makes it SLOWER) and it actually robs progress of the rest of the group because of exp and drop loss unless they leave the pod and risk losing the match.

 

 

How does it make it slower?

Hek, it makes it even safer since there are still people who have a problem staying away from Toxics and dying over the their fumes.

And there there are enough of a break between waves that if people dont mark stuff you can run over and pick up.

[fishworshipper]

Exterminate?

There's a limited amount of enemies in Exterminate missions.

A survival mission is what I'm looking for... sit a room and just murder everything defense-mission style, except there's no cryopod you have to babysit.

[Stinker]

Wait, you mean you've found groups to actually go past wave 5? As soon as a key/rare mod is in that screen everyone is just gone. :(

[Mazikeen]

What?

So much easier to kill them near the pod and get them all with frame skills and you're not screwing the people who actually do go after the objective than it is to rush to the spawns and even in the spawns they don't all converge in one spot if you're actually using, you know, teamwork.

It's far more efficient to have people at the choke points and or laneing than it is for people to scatter off any maybe leave one person to defend the pod.

 

I understand your point, but that was not at all what I was talking about. I'm not talking about teamwork or XP, but time to kill. If ennemies come one by one, it they take a long time to arrive at the pod, cleaning waves takes a lot more time.

 

Look at the Grineer "cave" map: the most efficient way to kill all ennemies is to stand close to the core. And that's what happens: players are most of the time there; not for the sake of the team, not for the XP, just because it's quicker and easier.

 

On the map the OP talks about, standing at the core just makes killing waves longer and more boring.

 

Players will always use the quickest and easiest solution. Not the "team spirit" one. And the players cannot be changed. If the root issue is the map/spawn/IA, then this point should be reviewed.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Mazikeen

[Bakim0n0]

No it's the same thread but you seemed to have missed some key details.

He doesnt like people going off because he wants XP, he is playing defense missions to get the most XP possible and he wants everyone to play in a way that accommodates him.

Yeah... god forbid people expect to get all the rewards for the runs they do and people to actually work as a team in a co-op game. You should re-read the OP because you really aren't clear on what he's saying. He doesn't want players to accommodate him, he wants players to not shaft people who actually defend the pod by stifling their advancement. He isn't even asking for people to be up near the pod or even hanging back at the choke points, just close enough that he gets exp and can actually participate.

 

 

How does it make it slower?

Hek, it makes it even safer since there are still people who have a problem staying away from Toxics and dying over the their fumes.

And there there are enough of a break between waves that if people dont mark stuff you can run over and pick up.

 

Mats will often expire before those breaks, and people will often go on a run to go for those drops a bit early so they can get back into position and they end up leaving the pod open and some random leftover comes along and wipes the run. Or, the same thing but the person who has gone off alone dies and the defenders scramble to go pick him up.

It makes it slower because it messes with the spawn patterns and pathing plus you have mostly one person killing instead of everyone. Toxics are fine when you stay near the pod because you get a boatload of time to take them out before they get through the choke points; and when the group is actually sticking together that person who went down can get picked up by nearby allies.

[Bakim0n0]

I understand your point, but that was not at all what I was talking about. I'm not talking about teamwork or XP, but time to kill. If ennemies come one by one, it they take a long time to arrive at the pod, cleaning waves takes a lot more time.

 

Look at the Grineer "cave" map: the most efficient way to kill all ennemies is to stand close to the core. And that's what happens: players are most of the time there; not for the sake of the team, not for the XP, just because it's quicker and easier.

 

On the map the OP talks about, standing at the core just makes killing waves longer and more boring.

 

Players will always use the quickest and easiest solution. Not the "team spirit" one. And the players cannot be changed. If the root issue is the map/spawn/IA, then this point should be reviewed.

Funny. I get 2-3 times as many kills as almost everyone else by running speed patrols in circles 15-20m away from the core instead of sitting back.

You'll kill 10 times faster waiting at the choke points for Xini / Io against infested because they line up like fish in a barrel. If you're running Ogris you can get faster kills with a decoy or vortex that pulls everything together into one spot.... but even that is best done at the choke points.

In very real terms, tactically it's far more efficient to fight near the pod at the choke points every time.

[Hybridon]

When I play I usually am a Hunter/Ressurector due to allready have little to accomplish other than level up all guns... and get Vauban and Frost Prime, the last one cause Im trying to get him using my Void runs just with my clan, so time is an issue to get this accomplished.

 

What I usually do is I go to the choke points, on a map like Xini/Venera and others with the same level design They are on 2 spots, one on the initial container when you leave the Tenno spawn point or on the right of the cryopod, where theres a smaller spawn rate, yet they spawn on top and on the bottom, and when massively (like almost never) its a pain in the &#!.

 

I get that first choke point cause to be true, we are surrounded with noobs. When Im playing with my clan we fit rolls, one on the cryo, the other 2 (yes, we are a 3 man clan unfortunately) on the choke points, and switching positions on waves 5/10/15 etc to gather mods, rare resources, along with the person defending the cryopod.

 

As long as you dont go far inside the biggest choke point whoever is on the cryo or on the other choke point gets if not all, most of the XP.

 

When Im on a public game Ill usually do the Hunter, I run all the map, without going that deep except on really needed situations, when they start to scatter too much, and kill as much as possible. If the cryo goes down 1% Ill be right by its side even if there isnt a threat, Ill run around ressurecting and taking care of the cryo. Whats the biggest issue? usually on public games you'll have 3 types of persons:

 

1 - The shiitheads that are only after kills. Once on a mission me and another went down, the guy was a freakin Banshee he was behind the cryo on those hovering containers just sniping and let us die. Me and the other guy where actually killing everything as he was a terrible sniper, and he just let us die. I didnt use a revive and let the cryo die, I memorized his nickname and hes gaining ranks, but he continues noob as hell. Yet he doesnt give a S#&$ about the team. These wont ressurect, jump off at lower waves, have no sense of team play. And will freakin hit leave at 1 second just to screw you, even though you ressurected his butt a zillion times!

 

2 - The noobs. Its not there fault, they are learning the mechanics, and even people that have thousands of kills can still be in this category. Not everybody is able to go with a Loki and be literraly all over the place ressurecting, killing, unarming big threats and so on, or using any other Frame at its full potential. I literraly have carried my team to higher waves because most of the times, but they mean no harm and usually will be close to the cryo. They are better to play with as they usually will die close to the cryopod, and if you ask them to stay close they will do it. I prefer these over number 1.

 

3 - Good defense players. Basically each one knows whats the limits and how to fully play his frame. You will see a team playing, even if you never comunicated and stuff. These are the ones I prefer to played. People that I have reached 30+ waves on Xini without a single threat to the cryopod. The truth is you can even have somebody gather almost all the kills on these, like a Saryn, but they do it for the team. They will use that Miasma around a downed teammate and save his &#!, then imediately run all the way to the other side to contain a wave of infested that would screw up the mission. These are the best to play along but are rare, and even rarer to get in a large scale. Its hard to get a 4 squad of these, and these are the ones Ill gladly save, even if I die trying =)

 

Sorry for the wall of text, but the truth is Ill allways adapt to what the others are doing... 2 are holding down a choke point and one on the cryo? Ill go to the other choke point and mark all mods. The other 2 came running to my side cause of a mod? Ill cover there spot. The cryo is dying? Im there hitting hard. The cryo defender needs stuff, Ill cover his &#!.

 

Basically I have a playstyle, but Ill cover any other role if the mission needs it. Simply because its a COOP, so you have to adapt, and keep in mind youre frames full potential.

[Bakim0n0]

--Snip--

^ Gets it.

[Mesane]

whenever im in a 4 player team and there is 2 or 3 of them that wanna do rambo, i just go ahead and let the pod die

[Alohoe]

No it's the same thread but you seemed to have missed some key details.

He doesnt like people going off because he wants XP, he is playing defense missions to get the most XP possible and he wants everyone to play in a way that accommodates him.

 

Yes, I like xp.  Guilty as charged.  I'm not asking anyone to go out of their way for me.  I am asking players to be considerate of the group they are in.  If you are after kill count, go solo. I just do not understand the logic behind joining a group to go off and do your own thing.  I have to play in a way to accommodate them and defend the cryo, cause they sure as hell wont.

[PhiZero]

Oh crap, I did not realize this when I played Banshee on Xini. (Sorry then, wouldn't have done it if I had known.) Thanks for the information on there being a range for shared exp.

[Hybridon]

Oh crap, I did not realize this when I played Banshee on Xini. (Sorry then, wouldn't have done it if I had known.) Thanks for the information on there being a range for shared exp.

 

Those boxes right after the bridge, where theres usually 2 cointainers together, and that on Corpus missions they gather close ducking and shooting the cryo are the perfect spot to use youre ulti, give XP to everyone and has the best range to even hit enemies that get close to the cryo or even the other choke point. You get kills, use the full potential of youre ulti and help everybody. Also a clean spot to snipe any threats at high spots, or to get quickly to any threat location...

 

Ofc Im considering a Stretch mode at max.

 

Thats where i usually go when playing Saryn/Banshee/Volt/Nyx.

 

You have a CC point on the biggest choke spot, are close in range for the cryo, drops fall close enough for everybody and have a full view of the map.

[BlueQuail]

I've tried not being a def hero. Turns out no one can defend the cryopod anyways.

[Mak_Gohae]

 

 

Mats will often expire before those breaks, and people will often go on a run to go for those drops a bit early so they can get back into position and they end up leaving the pod open and some random leftover comes along and wipes the run. Or, the same thing but the person who has gone off alone dies and the defenders scramble to go pick him up.

 

....ok be smart about when you go off and you dont need to revive people.

 

 

 

It makes it slower because it messes with the spawn patterns and pathing plus you have mostly one person killing instead of everyone. Toxics are fine when you stay near the pod because you get a boatload of time to take them out before they get through the choke points; and when the group is actually sticking together that person who went down can get picked up by nearby allies.

 

It doesnt mess up any spawn pattern or pathing as far as i have seen. If that dude is killing those things he is just killing those things. Again, you dont need to revive people if you dont want to.

 

 

Yes, I like xp.  Guilty as charged.  I'm not asking anyone to go out of their way for me.  I am asking players to be considerate of the group they are in.  If you are after kill count, go solo. I just do not understand the logic behind joining a group to go off and do your own thing.  I have to play in a way to accommodate them and defend the cryo, cause they sure as hell wont.

 

You are making your own assumptions about kill counts. The point of defense is for people to kill the mobs that come in so they dont kill the pod... so why would there be a problem if some one is killing them?

 

The only problem here is the XP from your end.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[.Monarch]

Went with a team, believe they're all pre-made. 

 

I told them Fyi. If they're going to spawn kill way over there, I WILL let the pod die if I ever see it gets attacked.

 

Then there they goes saying how it's a PvE game, nobody cares. And continue to accuse me of having to need others play the game "my" way.

 

Seeing how as they're all rank 3/4. I figured they must be new, and there fore I told them it's a genuine play style for infested defense mission.

 

And their defense is, this is an alt account. Which came as fishy, seeing as so many people regreting reset, as if it wasn't enough. They wanted another account from scratch. Leads me to believe perhaps they're building the account for sale?

 

That aside, they continously spawn kill until they figured what I said was true. They pussed out and got near the pod and started defending from there.

 

How it end? They all pussed out on wave 5 for a Banshee helmet BP.

 

@ The community.

 

It's ok to be new to the game, it's ok to be bad at it. But please, when a veteran tells you what is best for the team and mission. Just listen.

 

I can put up with baddies, but I can't put up with baddies that think they know what they're doing.

[Hybridon]

They arent baddies, just arrogant sheet... baddies listen to goodies to learn how to be them, or at least try.

[PhiZero]

So I fall under "baddies" and/or "arrogant sheet" then? That's not very constructive, would rather fall under "idiot" instead.

[BETAOPTICS]

I used to go to the hallways but when I learned that you get most EXp by being at the same location, I started staying at the pod.

[Alohoe]

....ok be smart about when you go off and you dont need to revive people.

 

 

 

 

It doesnt mess up any spawn pattern or pathing as far as i have seen. If that dude is killing those things he is just killing those things. Again, you dont need to revive people if you dont want to.

 

 

 

You are making your own assumptions about kill counts. The point of defense is to people the mobs that come in so they dont kill the pod... so why would there be a problem if some one is killing them?

 

The only problem here is the XP from your end.

Ok. I also farm mods with my maxed frames and maxed weapons and maxed dethcube with his maxed rifle and this still &!$$es me off.  Its not just xp.  It is about a group effort, and common courtesy,  and not making others stay on D while you go solo everything 200 meters away.  

Edited June 13, 2013 by Alohoe

[Hybridon]

So I fall under "baddies" and/or "arrogant sheet" then? That's not very constructive, would rather fall under "idiot" instead.

 

At any point did you refuse to kill close to the pod because somebody politely asked?

 

I even answered youre post right under it giving you advice on the best spot to continue with youre style in a exp for all the team way :)

 

Arrogants are those who are warned and continue to do it wrongly, simple as that, just because they want all the kills and have the others holding on to the pod for there happiness.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Hybridon

[Mak_Gohae]

Ok. I also farm mods with my maxed frames and maxed weapons and maxed dethcube with his maxed rifle and this still &!$$es me off.  Its not just xp.  It is about a group effort, and common courtesy,  and not making others stay on D while you go solo everything 200 meters away.  

 

That's your personal preference, then, because if everyone stays away and i am alone with the pod i'm fine. That just means i'll have a bunch of ammo and energy laying around when stuff hit's the fan.

[strakenlord]

I don't go into the hall but I am usually more on one side of the map vs right by the cryopod. I'm there to thin out the oncoming swarm so they never get a chance to get close to the cryopod though I guess it's not as useful nowadays since no one really goes past round 10

[Lugwy]

If they want to be heroes, fine; let them be heroes. I like the free stuff more than the EXP, anyway, and it's free stuff I don't need to lift a finger to get.

 

If they do well, that's less pressure on the rest of the team. And if they die, well, that's their problem and perhaps it'll teach them not to bite off more than they could chew in the future.