Having trouble against high level enemies, how to build properly?

[eRager]

So, I'm always having such trouble going up against high level enemies, especially Grineer with their Bombards and Napalms etc.
I don't know if I'm building incorrectly or something. Here are some of the builds of my "anti-Grineer" weapons:
http://imgur.com/a/3pXRo
I included my low-level builds (corrosive) as well for reference.

What am I doing wrong? I understand that a few formas might need to go in so I can max-out all mods, but I'm not going against lvl 100s, I'm going against lvl 40-70 whenever I need to use these builds, and still they barely do anything.

What am I doing wrong? What have I misunderstood? Is there an unwritten rule that to be able to take on a certain level you'll need to have forma:ed X number of times?

Edited May 3, 2016 by eRager

[Nesit1]

Their scaling is currently broken. To deal with 'em easily you need something to reduce their armor. Corrosive Proc isn't rly good option, so there are things that can help you.

1).Corrosive Projection aura.

2).Seeking Shuriken Ash's Augment.

3).Sonic Fracture Banshee's augment.

4).Mag's Fracturing Crush.

Tips on builds:

1).It's better to use 1 fully ranked mod than 2 unrankeds. Unranked mods are commonly not worth at all. You better focus on ranking up serration than mixing it with heavy caliber.

2).Heavy caliber isnt' good option on sniper-like weapons like Opticor.

3).If your weapons is based on crit and accuracy - you better aim for heads whenever possible

4).Using mods reducing recoil on Attica is super effective (trust me in this one).

5).Bane of Grineer is worth using only with fully modded mods. You better use something else, or use remaining capacity to rank up other mods.

[(XBOX)mickoboy90]

first thing, you want to level your damage mods,esp heavy cal and serration. and also corrosive damage is best to have all around on any weapon. and if your weapon is still doing low damage, that would be due to its actual raw damage, some weapons are just crap. get yourself soma prime and build it with heavy cal, serration, corrosive element and split rounds. you will kill everything 

[Wolfglaive]

With higher level enemies, it's about bypassing/negating their scaling, use Corrosive Projection or Shield Disruption aura depending on the faction faced, or a Corrosive damage on a weapon with a decent status chance for Grineer, toxin or gas on humanoid Corpus. Finisher damage is also another route. However, regarding the forma question; yes and no. Yes, most non-melee weapons require a couple forma at least to be effective against higher level enemies, but no, there's no magic number to know when you'll be able to. It comes down to their scaling, your playstyle, weapon choice and builds. There's a helluva lot of ways to skin a cat, but I wouldn't say you /need/ to do X or Y, just that you need to know your options and pick which thing suits you.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Wolfglaive

[rage4198]

corrosive damage or riot

[(PSN)LuciCorvusXIII]

unmaxed mods and elemental types used, cold is decent but grineer have armor so corrosive would do better than radiation even tho radiation is better against heavier units

[rage4198]

2 minutes ago, Nesit1 said:

Their scaling is currently broken. To deal with 'em easily you need something to reduce their armor. Corrosive Proc isn't rly good option, so there are things that can help you.

1).Corrosive Projection aura.

2).Seeking Shuriken Ash's Augment.

3).Sonic Fracture Banshee's augment.

4).Mag's Fracturing Crush.

Tips on builds:

1).It's better to use 1 fully ranked mod than 2 unrankeds. Unranked mods are commonly not worth at all. You better focus on ranking up serration than mixing it with heavy caliber.

2).Heavy caliber isnt' good option on sniper-like weapons like Opticor.

3).If your weapons is based on crit and accuracy - you better aim for heads whenever possible

4).Using mods reducing recoil on Attica is super effective (trust me in this one).

5).Bane of Grineer is worth using only with fully modded mods. You better use something else, or use remaining capacity to rank up other mods.

you forgot the link augement for trinity

or just have 3 ppl with corrosive projection and Coaction Drift

[Dhrekr]

6 minutes ago, eRager said:

What am I doing wrong? I understand that a few formas might need to go in so I can max-out all mods, but I'm not going against lvl 100s, I'm going against lvl 40-70 whenever I need to use these builds, and still they barely do anything.

You start needing Forma around level 50, imho. A rank 0 Split Chamber is basically a wasted slot (gives you an extra bullet with 15% chance? That's nothing). Installing dual-mods instead of full elemental mods on the Boltor Prime is a waste. Not maxing Serration is a waste. Not maxing Point Strike is a waste. And let's not even discuss Rifle Aptitude (well, I understand that you put it there because you had one modslot, but still).

 

If you feel that you're not doing enough damage, you need more Forma and more work. Nothing more. Max those mods and install as many formas as you need.

Otherwise, we could discuss on specifics (such as: pros and cons of getting Radiation+Viral on the Boltor Prime, for instance), but I think your main problem is really the weakness of the mods and the lack of mod points.

[Nesit1]

Just now, rage4198 said:

you forgot the link augement for trinity

or just have 3 ppl with corrosive projection and Coaction Drift

wot m8, my ev/bless builds have no place for this augment you must be kidding

Khm. Jokes aside. I just forgot this one, thx :p

[rage4198]

1 minute ago, Nesit1 said:

wot m8, my ev/bless builds have no place for this augment you must be kidding

Khm. Jokes aside. I just forgot this one, thx :p

shame you can use it on the exulus slot right?

[-CM-Hekovashi]

1-rank up +flat damage mods aka serration etc.
2-don't use dual status\damage mods in low RoF or low status chance weapons just put 90% elemental ones.
3-don't go for more fire rate in weapons that already have decent RoF, it will just burn out ammo faster, again consider replacing it with 90 or even 60 elemental ones.
4-4 corro+viral\slash=ez grineer, even one or 2 cp in da squad will help alot.

[Zxcrin]

People are talking a lot about Serration and maxing it - but it's a huge investment to fully max it, I'd recommend getting it to Rank 8 and then forgetting about it for a while until you're running out of other mods to upgrade. R8 - R10 is an absolute nightmare compared to the rest of it.

[rage4198]

1 minute ago, Zxcrin said:

People are talking a lot about Serration and maxing it - but it's a huge investment to fully max it, I'd recommend getting it to Rank 8 and then forgetting about it for a while until you're running out of other mods to upgrade. R8 - R10 is an absolute nightmare compared to the rest of it.

if you are mr4 or more do sorties everyday you get cores even if you dont want them.... or should I say you get them when you dont want them

[Ailith]

I'd say switch from Radiation to Corrosive, especially on the weapons with high fire rate (Attica and Boltor). Radiation deals bonus damage to nearly every armored boss, but only a few heavy units (ex: Bombards and Napalms). Most armored enemies take bonus damage from Corrosive instead of Radiation (like Heavy Gunners). Even if you're having trouble with the heavy units in higher content, I'd still say it's best to throw a bunch of Corrosive procs at them first so your Radiation damage can actually do something to them. Pick a primary and secondary for each task and swap between them as needed. I find shotguns to be the most effective for Corrosive, they have inherently high status chance due to firing multiple pellets per-shot and deal loads of damage on top of it (the Hek is my favorite).

I run Corrosive on nearly every primary and use my secondaries exclusively for Radiation damage. A level 70 Bombard shows up? Hit him with some Corrosive procs, then dump 100 bullets into him with something like the Dex Furis.

Alternatively, there's the ever-popular Corrosive Projection aura, though it's most effective when your squadmates use it too. If you can run 4 of them (ie: 100% armor reduction), just go with Slash and Viral damage.

 

P.S. You definitely need a maxed Split Chamber on all of your primary weapons, it will give you a 90% chance to fire two shots** at max rank. That's literally double your damage output 90% of the time.

**Not limited to bullets, it works with all weapon types. Same goes for all other Multi-Shot mods (Hell's Chamber, Barrel Diffusion, Lethal Torrent).

Edited May 3, 2016 by Ailith

[Zxcrin]

Just now, rage4198 said:

if you are mr4 or more do sorties everyday you get cores even if you dont want them.... or should I say you get them when you dont want them

Sure, but at that level you've got an absolute tonne of things that you need to upgrade - you need to max all your frame essentials (Intensify, Streamline, Continuity, Flow etc.) you need to max all your other assorted mods like Split Chamber, get your corrupted mods to R6 or so etc etc.

It's not about whether it's possible, it's about whether it's worth it - it's exactly one hundred gold cores and the associated credits.

On that note, I'd mention that while a maxed Split Chamber is REALLY good, it's really tricky to fit into weapons that don't have a slot of matching polarity. Don't be too afraid of forma-ing.

[rage4198]

11 minutes ago, Zxcrin said:

Sure, but at that level you've got an absolute tonne of things that you need to upgrade - you need to max all your frame essentials (Intensify, Streamline, Continuity, Flow etc.) you need to max all your other assorted mods like Split Chamber, get your corrupted mods to R6 or so etc etc.

It's not about whether it's possible, it's about whether it's worth it - it's exactly one hundred gold cores and the associated credits.

On that note, I'd mention that while a maxed Split Chamber is REALLY good, it's really tricky to fit into weapons that don't have a slot of matching polarity. Don't be too afraid of forma-ing.

tell that to the 25 gold cores or 50 gold cores or legendary core you can get in the sorties

and if not go to triton

[EvilChaosKnight]

55 minutes ago, Nesit1 said:

2).Heavy caliber isnt' good option on sniper-like weapons like Opticor.

A little note: Heavy Cal has no noticeable negative effect on Opticor. But the other snipers are indeed better off without it.

[eRager]

Thank you all for the good tips!

Many of you mentioned switching out radiation for corrosive, if you looked at all the pics you'll see that I have corrosive builds.
I used to ALWAYS use corrosive against Grineer, and sometimes, in high enough levels, it took me 2 magazines to take out one enemy, but then someone told me about having radiation instead and I saw an instant improvement, where only a few shots killed a small group of guys. I understand that corrosive is good against ferrite armour and bad against alloy armour, and the other way around for radiation, but still, the significant improvement can't go unnoticed IMO.

And yes, I understand that maxing-out raw dmg mods like serration is the best, but it costs insane amounts of fusion cores, and the tip about getting them from sorties. How am I supposed to easily just do the sorties every day when I can't take out the enemies there? It goes against itself, which means I'd be acting as a leech on my other squadmates.

A lot of the tips very useful, thanks again.

[carnaga]

4 hours ago, eRager said:

So, I'm always having such trouble going up against high level enemies, especially Grineer with their Bombards and Napalms etc.
I don't know if I'm building incorrectly or something. Here are some of the builds of my "anti-Grineer" weapons:
http://imgur.com/a/3pXRo
I included my level level builds as well for reference.

What am I doing wrong? I understand that a few formas might need to go in so I can max-out all mods, but I'm not going against lvl 100s, I'm going against lvl 40-70 whenever I need to use these builds, and still they barely do anything.

What am I doing wrong? What have I misunderstood? Is there an unwritten rule that to be able to take on a certain level you'll need to have forma:ed X number of times?

You are good to go with opticor up to lvl 70 bombards - they die with a headshot and with two shots to body. And yes, use forma to fit the proper mods. Here is my build:

 

Spoiler

 

P.S. Opticor is sometimes pretty impressive :)

Thought I use Braton Prime to low level Grineer cause it's so satisfying

 

 

Edit: Bombard statistics:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Bombard

Most weakest for radiation and viral. Slash and fire does some damage to it's flesh. Puncture and cold to armor. Napalm is the same but he has more of cloned flesh (600).

Edited May 3, 2016 by carnaga

[eRager]

4 hours ago, carnaga said:

"You are good to go with opticor up to lvl 70 bombards"

What about higher than that? What is required to kill higher levels than that?
I would assume only few more shots....

Edited May 3, 2016 by eRager

[carnaga]

12 hours ago, eRager said:

What about higher than that? What is required to kill higher levels than that?

I assume that you love opticor :) It's pretty challenging gun compared to scanti tigris and vaykor hek and bunch of other cheese weapons. I play with gamepad so if you are running with mouse, you are pretty OP with it.

If you watched the video of my build -- including spoilers, I still need 1 or 2 forma in it. So I haven't unlocked the full potential with opticor. Plus I need to max my mods (eg. heavy caliber). But as it is at the moment -- Elite Lancers and Arids are peace of cake. You can kill them guaranteed with 1-2 headshots at lvl 110. If you fight against lvl 110 bombard you will need 2-4 headshots - depending how rng calculates the projectile. And for body you need 7-8 shots.

So, when you go against higher tier enemies the thing is that you need to debuff the enemies which means using your warframe abilities. With debuffs (eg nova) you can oneshot them much easier. And you need to study the enemies -- what they are weak for. People say Grineer = corrosive. When you check wiki, the toughest Grineer enemies are weak for radiation. And those are the enemies you have trouble to deal with when you run plain corrosive. <-- my opinion.

Check the wiki regarding corrosive
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Corrosive_Damage

and make your own decision when going against alloy armor
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Radiation_Damage

corrosive projection aura is pretty good removing the the armor (yellow health bar turns red) specially at higher levels making the TTK (time to kill) bit faster against all armored units.
http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Corrosive_Projection

But if we go higher than lvl 70-80, I would select another weapon against heavy units :( I might change my opinion regarding this after I have formad opticor couple times and maxed my mods.

Edit: links

Edited May 4, 2016 by carnaga
corrections...

[Quadriga]

Quote

And yes, I understand that maxing-out raw dmg mods like serration is the best, but it costs insane amounts of fusion cores, and the tip about getting them from sorties. How am I supposed to easily just do the sorties every day when I can't take out the enemies there? It goes against itself, which means I'd be acting as a leech on my other squadmates.

Sorties isn't the only place you can farm cores, I suggest you do excavation missions(e.g. Triton). A pack of 5 R5 cores has a chance to be rewarded every 4th wave/rotation c, and the excavators are pretty fast so you can farm pretty effectively. It's not a guaranteed drop though and you can't really fix sh*tty luck/RNG, so best of luck farming them.
 

Quote

What about higher than that? What is required to kill higher levels than that?
I would assume only few more shots....

Nope, it takes a lot more shots to down the heavier units. Like Nesit1 previously said hp and armor scaling has been broken for quite a long time now. So the only effective way to deal w/ level 100 enemies and above is by having a squad w/ 4 Corrosive Projections and modding your weapons to Viral/Fire dmg build. You also need a lot of CC and dmg buffs to kill them real fast(since everything pretty much 1 shots you). The only offensive/dmg type frames that can still kill enemies at level 100++ are Ivara(Artemis Bow), Ash(Blade Storm), Equinox(Mend & Maim), and Excalibur(Exalted Blade).

Edited May 4, 2016 by Quadriga