Orthos Balance

[ra9una]

I'm having a really bad day....FYI, this isn't helping.

[Amistyrja]

The Orthos? It's great and all, but the ground slam attack is complete S#&$. There's your balance.

[Tatersail]

Knockdown on heavy weapons is very strong, you can knock down that level 99 Commando mob thats cutting your shields apart and Rape him on the ground. I was soloing a t3 void mainly by sprinting in hammer knockdown, and then lay into them on the floor with a shotgun...  (thats me, shoots you in the back when your down)

 

 

I used Fragor for a long time using crouch slide attacks leveling. You can slide across and room and perform 2 aoe sweeps for 100+mods "that ignores armor"

Fragor has innate Aoe that apply slows and stuns to nearby mobs...  until you get level 60+ mobs slide attacks 1 shots pretty much all greneer in a large radius.

 

I made a Scindo later on and was a bit let down since it lacks armor ignore, and triple damage on light infested that already die in 1 slide attack seemed pointless, but its easier to level as a wade in and melee weapon vs infested.

 

I never really understood Charge attacks, why you would walk upto a mob and stand in front of them for 2 seconds with your pants down charging your hammer for 200 charge damage, when You can do more (because elemental mods hit twice) with two 100 hits from a slide attack.

 

 

I only started using charge attacks with Loki, and swapped to orthos for the faster charge, but I still miss the armor ignore on Slide and normal attacks.

 

I wouldn't like to be fighting a level 99 commando while OOM with an orthos....

[Enomilli]

Why is everyone and their mother suggesting nerfs for a PvE game with weapons that are not even imbalanced...?

 

This community is almost as dumb as the Nexon one...

[weezedog]

The Orthos speed and damaged is balanced by its lack of crowd control ability because it can't knock down enemies with with its jump attack or knock them away. It also is more easily interrupted than other heavy weapons.

[Amistyrja]

Why is everyone and their mother suggesting nerfs for a PvE game with weapons that are not even imbalanced...?

 

This community is almost as dumb as the Nexon one...

Congrats on post 1337

[Enomilli]

Congrats on post 1337

Thank you...

 

I'm officially to MLG360noscope420blazedsmokeweed4lyfe2pro4youhaxorslashgetblazedfgts now.

[Estred]

They would have to buff 5 other weapons instead of carefully balancing one. Buffing other weapons in order to "balance" them against a single new overpowered weapon when those previous weapons had nothing wrong with them is NOT how you go about balancing things. This would also throw off the balance with the already inferior Longsword weapons as well, requiring them to be buffed MORE.

 

Yes I actually am a dev for a game and I have experience balancing things.

That is fine, care to mention which game? So we may make conclusions?

 

Also the reason you met so much instant dislike towards your suggestion is that the forums have been exploding with errant Nerf threads. Most of them are completely unfounded. So even if you have a valid reason, there are alternative weapons for various reasons. Orthos should be optimal for reach, maybe not optimal for damage (Scindo) or speed (Gram) or Knockback (Fragor) perhaps not for AE-Damage (Amphis) or just chain auto-attacking (Hate).

 

The Orthos from the games I have watched them used (just got mine today) fairs well verus Trash but not so well against larger opponents. In this respect all Heavy-Melee fairs well against trash.

Gram: Power Cleave

Scindo: Power Slam (god that thing hurts)

Fragor: Golf anyone?

 

So founded or not in general the populous seem tired of Nerf threads almost as much as they are about the threads either complaining or even discussing the change to sliding.  For "endgame" though Dual-Heat and Dual Ether still are the most used.

Now excuse me while I read the rest of the thread.

 

 

Orthos isn't OP. If anything, it's standard.

 

The charge-speed and DPS is pretty much on par with the Gram. This weapon does offer good normal attack stacks, but if you're spamming normal attacks with a heavy weapon, you're using it wrong. The lack of knockdown ability also hurts it when dealing with high level mobs, regardless of the Loki or Ash stealth buffs.

 

On the topic of range, just use "Reach" - Not to be confused with "Stretch". This pretty much rounds out the whole problem.

The CC offered by Gram-Slamming actually can be a benfit since Gram has long Charge even with mods and is easily staggered. About the only weapon I would advocate Fury on a Heavy Weapon.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Estred

[Wooffgang]

"And you expect me to accept the fact that this weapon is better than my Skana? How can I? As a warframe player accept something is better than the weapon I have. You seriously expect me to stand back and watch this weapon overpower my 20 times formaed and potatoed skana? How could you? I want my money back. First the Stupid Boltor/Burston/Hek made my MK-1 Braton look like S#&$.And now this Like why?"

 

Thats exactly what most of the ppl that make posts like this sound

[mogamu]

no

 

My orthos is great vs infested, decent charge aoe...but the regular attack is sub par at best vs greneer and corpus.  You have to ADD mods like Armor piercing, North Wind and reach to make the weapon really shine the way it does. 

[c_man_ninja_gun]

So you want to turn it into the Bo?

[Cpl_Facehugger]

I've been strolling around with my Orthos, and I've found it to be pretty good. A little too good.

Compare it to other heavy weapons and it's not too good at all. It's good, but not wildly out of whack with all the other heavy weapons.

 

Large AoE and range as well as fast charge speed and top-tier charge attack damage. The lack of stagger resistance doesn't matter when you can hit most enemies when they aren't even in range to stagger you, and no one bothers with regular attack on heavy weapons anyways so it doesn't matter for the Orthos.

The lack of stagger resistance certainly matters in almost any situation where you'd be using a melee weapon at all. For instance, with a scindo, being surrounded by infested isn't that bad. With an orthos, you've got to roll backwards immediately or else you'll get stunlocked before you can charge. Ditto being scorp-grabbed and pulled into a squad of grineer melee units.

 

But wait, the Orthos has a bad jump attack right? Doesn't matter, since you can cleave apart everything around you in a massive area with your charge attack anyways.

On a scindo or fragor, you can chill and knockdown everyone in a pretty large radius around you with a jump attack, rendering them utterly helpless for several seconds. This on top of the orthos' inferior charge damage. The orthos doesn't even compare, being pretty much dual ether sword when it comes to jump attack radius.

Edited June 14, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Ivalician]

They would have to buff 5 other weapons instead of carefully balancing one. Buffing other weapons in order to "balance" them against a single new overpowered weapon when those previous weapons had nothing wrong with them is NOT how you go about balancing things. This would also throw off the balance with the already inferior Longsword weapons as well, requiring them to be buffed MORE.

 

Yes I actually am a dev for a game and I have experience balancing things.

Except for the fact that almost all of the melee weapons need to be buffed anyway...

[ADDpillz]

OP,

 

get some dual ethers

get a gram

 

l2p

[fatpig84]

Nerf Orthos ?? You nuts ?

You know you cannot jump knock down ancients with it ?

 

It already suffers in that department for the reach and speed it gains.

It has no quick crowd relief. All it relies is on it's speed and reach to kill the enemy before they overly swarmed him.

 

A Scindo, even at low levels can be reliably used to knock down ancients so they can be finished by spamming your primary. 
Not for Orthos. Orthos only has pure DPS and not much else.

[Blackfire1]

Orthos is not OP... the Orthos camera however is stupidly overpowered. It shakes so much mid attack it gives the person using it headaches.,

 

Like me... Needs a smoother camera.

[Dahrsis]

Small introduction. I am a mainly close combat player switching to ranged only to relax, the situation demands it or on high level enemies.

15 melee weapons in all classes on 30 and 4 weapons forma treated to 3 stars atm. You get a very good feel for whats balanced and what not after that.

 

Several things...

 

Do not call for nerfs if your seem to be unable to compare weapon performances over several factors.Things to keep in mind are performance of ranged vs. melee weapons and melee weapon classes both against enemies lvl 50+ where it starts to really matter.

 

Orthos is one of the very few melee weapons DE brought into the game which is indeed balanced. And i am only talking of the weapon. Melee Mods are a completley different animal.

Compared to the true heavies, lack of knockdown is really really hurting, as CC is one of the few niches melee really fills in atm, tho probably soon surpassed by ranged weapons too (Ogris). On the reach department, ever seen the two vertical slashes of Gram in its normal combo? Guess not, as these have a reach far surpassing the physical form of the weapon. Combine that with the the Reach Mod and it leaves Orthos in the dust.

 

On charge attacks. Orthos got the same arc as other heavies but the left side of the avatar with only 10° directly under the crosshair. No big thing, but can make for misses in some hectic situations none the less.

 

The Orthos is atm a great weapon for normal attacks and charge attacks. Would i use it on lvl 50+? Nope. Have my Gram there for the knockdown.

The fastest weapon, nope, for single target damage, Fangs still better. With my Ash? Zoren. High crit chance there is great. Ether Blades for pure Speed and Armour Ignore. Want really fast and mobile charge attacks? Dual Heats Swords and Plasma Blade. Darn it, even for a main ranged users the Pangolin Sword, because between reloads you can Block with it on the way to cover and it is the best blocking weapon.

 

In the end, Orthos is a weapon for players who want to play in a specific way. Isn´t it all about that? To have a weapon YOU like and have fun beause it compliments your play style?

 

I wont say melee is balanced, not against ranged weapons, nor are the weapons in th different melee classes against each other. But that is really another topic. But calling for a nerf is basically the wrong idea, especially in the melee department which allready suffers.

[Baigan]

Small introduction. I am a mainly close combat player switching to ranged only to relax, the situation demands it or on high level enemies.

15 melee weapons in all classes on 30 and 4 weapons forma treated to 3 stars atm. You get a very good feel for whats balanced and what not after that.

 

Several things...

 

Do not call for nerfs if your seem to be unable to compare weapon performances over several factors.Things to keep in mind are performance of ranged vs. melee weapons and melee weapon classes both against enemies lvl 50+ where it starts to really matter.

 

Orthos is one of the very few melee weapons DE brought into the game which is indeed balanced. And i am only talking of the weapon. Melee Mods are a completley different animal.

Compared to the true heavies, lack of knockdown is really really hurting, as CC is one of the few niches melee really fills in atm, tho probably soon surpassed by ranged weapons too (Ogris). On the reach department, ever seen the two vertical slashes of Gram in its normal combo? Guess not, as these have a reach far surpassing the physical form of the weapon. Combine that with the the Reach Mod and it leaves Orthos in the dust.

 

On charge attacks. Orthos got the same arc as other heavies but the left side of the avatar with only 10° directly under the crosshair. No big thing, but can make for misses in some hectic situations none the less.

 

The Orthos is atm a great weapon for normal attacks and charge attacks. Would i use it on lvl 50+? Nope. Have my Gram there for the knockdown.

The fastest weapon, nope, for single target damage, Fangs still better. With my Ash? Zoren. High crit chance there is great. Ether Blades for pure Speed and Armour Ignore. Want really fast and mobile charge attacks? Dual Heats Swords and Plasma Blade. Darn it, even for a main ranged users the Pangolin Sword, because between reloads you can Block with it on the way to cover and it is the best blocking weapon.

 

In the end, Orthos is a weapon for players who want to play in a specific way. Isn´t it all about that? To have a weapon YOU like and have fun beause it compliments your play style?

 

I wont say melee is balanced, not against ranged weapons, nor are the weapons in th different melee classes against each other. But that is really another topic. But calling for a nerf is basically the wrong idea, especially in the melee department which allready suffers.

 

You. I like you. :)

[Lolander3]

I say the orthos is Fine DPS and speed wise.  its not faster than fang and dual zoren so its not a huge deal.  my issue with it is,  it should have way better range.  The weapon ive had the most fun and experience with in real life feels like its about as long as a ruler in this game lol.  find myself missing enemies i feel like i should be hitting, and getting rifle butted at the tip of this weapons current range, which is unrealistic.  a grinnier's elbow swinging out with a rifle shouldnt reach you at the full swing of a spear or bo type weapon.

[Strudul]

Why is everyone saying ranged weapons outclass melee ones?

 

-Melee has "infinite ammo"

-The damage is good if you use the right setup (gram / scindo / orthos, using charge attacks with the right mods)

-They can knockdown / stagger enemies

-They are perfectly safe if used in the right situation (attack in Frost's Snow Globe or when Excalibur uses Radial Blind)

 

I spam my Gram more than anything else, if you buff melee it will be too powerful...

Edited June 15, 2013 by Strudul

[lZerul]

Because Ranged weapons do far more DPS from a far safer range then melee could hope to with how the mods currently work. Not all melee weapons and reliably Knockdown/Stagger enemies either, the best ones should though.

 

Kill speed is very important in this game, a dead enemy is an enemy doing no damage to you. Guns can kill from (much) further away and have more practical DPS without question.

Edited June 15, 2013 by lZerul

[Webly]

This is a bad idea.

[Seanjuju]

Why is everyone saying ranged weapons outclass melee ones?

 

-Melee has "infinite ammo"

-The damage is good if you use the right setup (gram / scindo / orthos, using charge attacks with the right mods)

-They can knockdown / stagger enemies

-They are perfectly safe if used in the right situation (attack in Frost's Snow Globe or when Excalibur uses Radial Blind)

 

I spam my Gram more than anything else, if you buff melee it will be too powerful...

Any buffs should probably be for long swords.

 

The idea of nerfing this weapon is laughable for obvious reasons.

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

Why is everyone saying ranged weapons outclass melee ones?

 

-Melee has "infinite ammo"

-The damage is good if you use the right setup (gram / scindo / orthos, using charge attacks with the right mods)

-They can knockdown / stagger enemies

-They are perfectly safe if used in the right situation (attack in Frost's Snow Globe or when Excalibur uses Radial Blind)

 

I spam my Gram more than anything else, if you buff melee it will be too powerful...

1) So what?

2) Boltor, Braton, Gorgon, Lex, HEK, AkBolto, AkViper, etc. Would like to have a word with you.

3) Any ranged weapon can stagger enemies.

4) Ranged weapons are ALWAYS safe.

 

Your arguments are invalid.

[Strudul]

1) So what?

2) Boltor, Braton, Gorgon, Lex, HEK, AkBolto, AkViper, etc. Would like to have a word with you.

3) Any ranged weapon can stagger enemies.

4) Ranged weapons are ALWAYS safe.

 

Your arguments are invalid.

1) So you have less to worry about, never have to reload, don't have to pick up ammo / use ammo boxes

2) My potato'd Dread can 1-shot level 100 ancients, but I still use my non-potato'd Gram for most stuff.

3) So...

4) Not really, you can still get shot at

5) Melee weapons can also hit multiple enemies at once which effectively multiplies your dps by the amount of enemies you hit