New players: Ember Prime is NOT worth 1k+ plat

[Troll_Logic]

Ember Prime is not worth 1,000 plat or more.  Don't waste that much plat.  Ember is just as good and infinitely cheaper.  Use that plat on mods, weapons, and other things that are actually useful.

Use your platinum on things that can help you.

Take Ember, add a few formas, and you've basically got an Ember Prime with all of your platinum.

Edited May 14, 2016 by Troll_Logic

[-KyloRen-]

WTS Ember Prime Set 950p 

[TrickshotMcGee]

NO frame is worth 1k plat. Especially since they are supposed to come back out of the vault at one point. 

I think it's kind of really ridiculous people charge that much for what is essentially fashionframe, but in the end it's up to the people buying it. When people pay 1k plat for it, the price will stay high, and potentially even get higher as time passes (I've seen it go from 900 average to 1k+ average). If nobody buys it, then the price eventually has to come down in order for them to be sold. That's the market cycle. When prices get too high, people stop buying. When that happens, prices drop to more reasonable levels until people start buying again.

I assume that the prices will default back to being cheap as sin when she gets unvaulted, then jack right back up a few weeks later. That's how the current vaulting is going. Loki is getting expensive right now. 

Plat is great and we all love it, but knowingly screwing people out of it because they don't have anywhere else to buy it from is pretty cruel, and rather cheap. That's just my opinion, though. 

[--RV--LadySpiderwick]

I would agree, 1k plat is just a rip off price for even a prime like Ember. Ofc prime frames fetch for a bit but it is not worth 1k plat. 1k platinum can easily get you 2-4 prime sets depending on how you haggle prices.

[Troll_Logic]

3 hours ago, TheScytale said:

It's a free market. The only opinion that matters is the buyer's and seller's, how much you, I, or any other person than those two think it's worth is irrelevant.

Again...

On 5/14/2016 at 5:58 PM, Troll_Logic said:

This thread is for new players who are thinking about spending an obscene amount of platinum on Ember Prime.  That's it.  It isn't a discussion of supply and demand.  It isn't a discussion of "what the market will bear."  It isn't that because if it was, then it would devolve into a circular argument of "It's not worth it." then "It is if someone will pay that much." to "That isn't what I'm talking about.  I'm saying 'blah blah blah.  You just don't understand'"  

Again, here is the point from a purely game mechanic's standpoint.

There are two types of "prime" items.

The first group is like the soma prime.  It is markedly better than the regular version.  Once the regular and prime versions have the same polarities, the prime version is still markedly better and worth obtaining.

The second group is like ember prime.  It is marginally better than the regular version.  Once the regular and prime versions have the same polarities, the prime version is basically the same as the regular version.

To recap, the only reason to purchase ember prime is the actual skin or if you are a completionist.  If you just want to play the game, then regular ember is just as powerful as ember prime.  Save your plat.

 

Edited May 15, 2016 by Troll_Logic

[tveeggad]

I'd honestly say that something you want is worth as much as you feel it's worth giving. 

So, yeah no, ember prime isn't worth 1k plat.

[Troll_Logic]

16 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

It's for the buyer and seller to.

Exactly.  To all of those people thinking about spending 1,000 platinum on Ember Prime, I'm offering my advice that it isn't worth it.

So for the people who are thinking about buying Ember Prime and they come to this forum for advice, my advice is "Don't do it.  Take cheap ember, add a few forma, and your new ember is just as powerful and you still have the 1,000 plat.

[InglriousB]

Once you could get ember prime for under 100 plats. Don't go about paying 1000. Just wait until she gets back in the game again :P

[Troll_Logic]

9 minutes ago, InglriousB said:

Once you could get ember prime for under 100 plats. Don't go about paying 1000. Just wait until she gets back in the game again :P

I remember when Frost, Ember, and Mag were 20p a set.  No arguing.  No haggling.  Those were the prices.

[Troll_Logic]

35 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

but that's not for us to decide. It's for the buyer and seller to.

I'm not looking to make someone's decision for them.  I'm offering advice.  To the new players "Don't spend 1,000 plat on Ember Prime.  Take Ember, add a few formas, and you have a frame that is just as powerful and the player still has 1,000 plat in their pocket.

 

Soma Prime is markedly different from Soma.  Players can match polarities on both and the Soma Prime is still a significantly better weapon.

Ember Prime is marginally different than Ember and once both are formaed up to have equal polarities, they are effectively equal in power but they do look different.

 

So if a new player has just purchased platinum and he's come to this forum wondering if Ember Prime is worth the incredibly steep asking price, my advice is "No."

 

[VKhaun]

2 minutes ago, Zari2015 said:

Accelerant is good-ish only with Ignis moded only for fire damage and fire rate.

It will do ~5400 damage per hit (maximizing Power Strength for Accelerant)

Basically useless frame.

Why do you think it's only good with Ignis? You can add fire damage to any weapon. Weapon fire DPS can easily exceed the DPS of her abilities. Look at the fire damage of a crit built top tier weapon.

[Rounpositron]

2 hours ago, VKhaun said:

Aesthetically however... Ember Prime is really hot....  

Was that a pun?

[Hatzeputt]

Ember P was the first frame I completely bought as a set, for 15, fifteen, plat. Prices these days are utterly nuts.

[Troll_Logic]

17 minutes ago, EvilKam said:

That's not how "economy" works.  The value of a thing is determined by buyer demand, influenced by pedigree, and has nothing to do with "usefulness".  

This thread is about Ember Prime.  It's not an in-depth discuss about supply and demand.

[TrickshotMcGee]

11 minutes ago, EvilKam said:

It is worth every penny of that money because you don't have any other method of getting it.

Sounds a lot like what I said earlier.

10 hours ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

When people pay 1k plat for it, the price will stay high,

10 hours ago, TrickshotMcGee said:

they don't have anywhere else to buy it from

There's a statue of limitations and ethics. Charging 1k plat for a frame, that's arguably no better than any other vaulted frame that costs less than half of that price, is simply ridiculous and everyone who sells it for such a price damn well knows it. Hell, if anything, Mag Prime with her upcoming rework should be worth more than an Ember. 

Like it has been said, it's up to the people buying, but we're trying to tell those people that Ember Prime isn't actually worth that much when her non-prime version does practically the same exact thing, with a couple slightly lowered stats. For gameplay, there's almost no noticeable difference and ALL they'd be paying for is fashionframe, which is not worth 1k. 

[Troll_Logic]

2 hours ago, EvilKam said:

Ember Prime's value has nothing to do with your opinion.  Ember Prime's value has nothing to do with how we analyze her usability in game.  Ember Prime's value is determined by how badly people want to acquire her, and how much people are willing to pay for her.

 

2 hours ago, EvilKam said:

This thread is about Ember Prime's current trading price.  As such, it's a discussion about economics, and thus, of supply and demand.

This thread is for new players who are thinking about spending an obscene amount of platinum on Ember Prime.  That's it.  It isn't a discussion of supply and demand.  It isn't a discussion of "what the market will bear."  It isn't that because if it was, then it would devolve into a circular argument of "It's not worth it." then "It is if someone will pay that much." to "That isn't what I'm talking about.  I'm saying 'blah blah blah.  You just don't understand'"  You've already conflated cost, value, and price.  This thread isn't about that discussion.

 

Again, here is the point from a purely game mechanic's standpoint.

There are two types of "prime" items.

The first group is like the soma prime.  It is markedly better than the regular version.  Once the regular and prime versions have the same polarities, the prime version is still markedly better and worth obtaining.

The second group is like ember prime.  It is marginally better than the regular version.  Once the regular and prime versions have the same polarities, the prime version is basically the same as the regular version.

 

To recap, the only reason to purchase ember prime is the actual skin or if you are a completionist.  If you just want to play the game, then regular ember is just as powerful as ember prime.  Save your plat.

[DeadlyPeanutt]

OP is right: ember is pretty easy to farm and is very playable after putting a few forma on.  i got an XP booster from baro with ducats and leveled up ember and a few other frames through several forma each... easy and no plat spent.   slap an alternate helmet on her and she's cute as a button on fire. 

on the free market: prices on trade chat are pretty absurd sometimes: 1000 plat for ember is one thing, but 600 plat for a single rare stance mod is truly crazy.   how would a stance mod ever give the player 600 plats worth of value?

[EvilKam]

5 hours ago, Troll_Logic said:

:snip:  bunches of well written and actually relevant text went here.  :snip:

To recap, the only reason to purchase ember prime is the actual skin or if you are a completionist.  If you just want to play the game, then regular ember is just as powerful as ember prime.  Save your plat.

Okay, I suppose it could be good advice, but from another perspective, were new players about to actually drop 1k plat on Ember Prime?  I think that if they dropped money for that much, they won't be entering trade chat blindly.  Then again, I hang out in Region chat, so I guess it's completely possible.  And in that case, I'm convinced.  If you are joining Warframe with a Prime Access Purchase, and have full plans to buy the next 3 prime access packs, and will make it to MR 15 unaware that you can build 95% of the things in the game in the foundry because wallet power gives you all the weapons you need... I quote the immortal words of P.T.Barnum.  "There's a sucker born every minute".

So, we're embracing diametrically opposed viewpoints.  :D  I say that no new players will buy Ember Prime.  If a new player does decide to do so, then buying platinum was already irrelevant to them.  If those players ALSO fail to use Google to look up WHY Ember Prime costs 1k plat, and just blindly assume she must be that powerful, then this will be a wonderful lesson in human nature and fiscal caution, and the importance of market research.

Finally, is it just me, or are we posting WAY out of order on this thread?  Whenever I load it, the messages... are not in order.  Like, one person types 14 hours ago, I typed 6 hours ago, then TL posts 4 hours ago, then the next guy is 11 hours ago... it's almost like "top posting" where it's in reverse order.. but... it's not in reverse order.  Both chrome and firefox are displaying it... wrong... for me.

[(NSW)The_Madrigal]

I'm going to have to agree with OP on this one. The crux of his argument is ultimately targeted at new players, who I believe are far less concerned about the fine art of fashion frame and would rather have a frame that is viable, useful. Is Ember Prime worth 1k platinum in terms of market demand and supply? The market seems to agree so. Is she worth 1k plat in terms of viability? The OP argues, unreservedly not. There is a world of difference in the two viewpoints. Reconcile it.

Just my two cents.

[Darth-Buldge]

that price is crazy! Besides she may be making a return via prime vault so.. theres that

[Troll_Logic]

8 hours ago, (XB1)Onyx Guarrd said:

A frame / weapon or whatever it is, is really only worth how much you're is willing to sell it for, & how much someone is willing to buy it for. Doesn't really matter if anyone think's its too low or too high.

Once again...

On 5/14/2016 at 5:58 PM, Troll_Logic said:

This thread is for new players who are thinking about spending an obscene amount of platinum on Ember Prime.  That's it.  It isn't a discussion of supply and demand.  It isn't a discussion of "what the market will bear."  It isn't that because if it was, then it would devolve into a circular argument of "It's not worth it." then "It is if someone will pay that much." to "That isn't what I'm talking about.  I'm saying 'blah blah blah.  You just don't understand'"  

Again, here is the point from a purely game mechanic's standpoint.

There are two types of "prime" items.

The first group is like the soma prime.  It is markedly better than the regular version.  Once the regular and prime versions have the same polarities, the prime version is still markedly better and worth obtaining.

The second group is like ember prime.  It is marginally better than the regular version.  Once the regular and prime versions have the same polarities, the prime version is basically the same as the regular version.

To recap, the only reason to purchase ember prime is the actual skin or if you are a completionist.  If you just want to play the game, then regular ember is just as powerful as ember prime.  Save your plat.

 

 

 

[Zeranov]

Screw the laws of a free market... Ember Prime for 1000+ plat is way beyond ridiculous.

Yes. After all you can price her what you want but I'm glad to see someone who informs the uninformed about the real deal. (It's almost a cosmetic. Not a upgrade. And it's overpriced because of artificial shortage that may resolve soon.)

Edited May 20, 2016 by Zeranov

[(PSN)SKRIMP-N-GRITZ]

I agree with OP. None of the vaulted primes are worth the plat. The stat differences are negligible. I use vanilla Loki for all spy and rescue sorties. Frost prime and rhino is just about a skin. Regular glaive - same stats as prime. New players are misguided thinking they need all this and the other vaulted stuff. 

Mall tgat said I'm happy to sell it to them at the market rate.

[Kronxito]

Of course not. Ember prime doesnt cost 1000 pt. No frame costs that at all. Get the frame by farming ( its easy), enjoy and save your plat.

Normal version is THE SAME as primed version. Primed are a little better (but ONLY a little)

So many greedy and troll sellers ingame...... 

Edited May 24, 2016 by ArionLightning

[(PSN)O_o_II_II_o_O]

To be honest the first thing I did when I started trading etc was look up prices so I was aware of what I should be paying. If anything I won't budge unless I'm getting a bargain.

 

If people can't do that then they shouldn't complain after they have paid 300p for Loki Prime. The fact a game requires so much research is a major factor as to why it is head and shoulders above anything else in my opinion. 

[(XBOX)General D1rtbag]

I actually got a Vauban Prime set with only a Vaykor Hek.