Reasons Why Grineer / Corpus / Infested Weapons CAN & SHOULD Be Primed

[Master-Ouroboros]

1 minute ago, (XB1)BURRITO DEVIL said:

do you want power creep? because thats how you get powercreep

We already have power creep, and it's being dealt with slowly but surely.

[Apoc001]

34 minutes ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

 As if they would go into an orokin tower and look for one specific thing and dismiss all the other tech around them if they don't find it, that's illogical as heck. If they see some tech, they'll grab it, it's pretty obvious. Anyone would do the same.

unless of course that piece of tech is genetically locked that they would be incapable of using it

[Master-Ouroboros]

1 minute ago, Evanescent said:

It's more the tone and the way in which you present your ideas. You don't leave a lot of room for feedback,and look how you're approaching criticism!

You have to keep calm and politely explain your point of view and agree to disagree if it still doesn't work out. Aggressively attacking is the best way to wreck a discussion. 

I leave plenty of room for feedback mate, and I am polite, as you can see, I've been more than polite with people who share ideas and don't just attempt to shoot my post down like yourself. I just don't appreciate people responding in a way that basically s**ts on my post after me taking the time out to share it with the community. If someone does that, I'm blunt, especially if it's obvious they've not actually read my post and are commenting anyway because that's on par with trolling which is just a waste of time. There's a big difference between aggressively attacking and being blunt, I'm blunt, not aggressive. I say what I see.

 

[Xekrin]

12 minutes ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

I can't believe there are people here actually protesting an idea that opens up many more realms of possibility for new content in the future. Why do people play this game if not to enjoy the new content and have FUN? Why would anyone who loves a game willingly shut down an attempt to open up the game to many more possibilities. It's nonsensical.

Mostly I think people are against it for reasons of lore.  Personally a Paracyst Prime sounds silly, I could not imagine gold tendons and moist orokin bell tones being emitted from that thing.  But honestly, what's the difference either way?  We get 3 new primes every 3 to 4 months or however long PA lasts.  We have a ton of weapons with more every week or two.

My thoughts on the matter in general?  Be patient, you'll get what you get when you get it.  

Besides that Prime is just a title, comparitive to vandal, wraith and whatever other type I'm missing.  So long as they get one of those, what's the difference?  The weapon gets reskinned and usually buffed in some way or another, why does every weapon need "Prime" as a suffix?

54 minutes ago, Lanieu said:

..sorry for the caps.

Are you?  Are you really? 

Edited May 25, 2016 by Xekrin

[Master-Ouroboros]

4 minutes ago, Apoc001 said:

unless of course that piece of tech is genetically locked that they would be incapable of using it

That's possible, but I doubt they'd leave it behind if that was the case, they'd likely still take it for future reference, see it as just another hurdle to jump over. Heck, they could even back engineer the genetic lock tech and use it for themselves. Or maybe even unlock genetic blueprints stored in the memory of the genetic lock? Which would help them restabilise their own genome?

[Evanescent]

4 minutes ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

I leave plenty of room for feedback mate, and I am polite, as you can see, I've been more than polite with people who share ideas and don't just attempt to shoot my post down like yourself. I just don't appreciate people responding in a way that basically s**ts on my post after me taking the time out to share it with the community. If someone does that, I'm blunt, especially if it's obvious they've not actually read my post and are commenting anyway because that's on par with trolling which is just a waste of time. There's a big difference between aggressively attacking and being blunt, I'm blunt, not aggressive. I say what I see.

 

Here on the internet, people are especially touchy. I take care to be....extra friendly I guess? Forum goers, especially, recently, have been quite rough. 

But yeah, I get your point. Some people...have been a mite high-handed in their posts, haha.

Right, I'll leave you to it. If you want to talk, my Inbox is open, and I'll stop derailing the topic here. Good luck, and good day sir.

[Master-Ouroboros]

1 minute ago, Xekrin said:

Mostly I think people are against it for reasons of lore.  Personally a Paracyst Prime sounds silly, I could not imagine gold tendons and moist orokin bell tons being emitted from that thing.  But honestly, what's the difference either way?  We get 3 new primes every 3 to 4 months or however long PA lasts.  We have a ton of weapons with more every week or two.

My thoughts on the matter in general?  Be patient, you'll get what you get when you get it.  

Besides that Prime is just a title, comparitive to vandal, wraith and whatever other type I'm missing.  So long as they get one of those, what's the difference?  The weapon gets reskinned and usually buffed in some way or another, why does every weapon need "Prime" as a suffix?

Are you?  Are you really?  

Yeah I get that, the thing is though the ideas I'm suggesting DO and WILL fit right in with lore. I'm not saying we should have the likes of a Paracyst Prime, because obviously that'd be ridiculous. I'm just saying there are so many weapons out there that could and should have orokin counterparts, weapons they're derived or descended from, that the grineer / corpus have attempted to copy and instead ended up with something different due to a lack of knowledge of Orokin tech, something more akin to their own level of technological knowhow.

Btw, +1, you're like the first person to respond in the "proper" way and not just attempt to shoot me down or tell me I'm wrong.

[Master-Ouroboros]

1 minute ago, Evanescent said:

Here on the internet, people are especially touchy. I take care to be....extra friendly I guess? Forum goers, especially, recently, have been quite rough. 

But yeah, I get your point. Some people...have been a mite high-handed in their posts, haha.

Right, I'll leave you to it. If you want to talk, my Inbox is open, and I'll stop derailing the topic here. Good luck, and good day sir.

Yeah I know, personally I think people just like to contradict others for the sake of being contradictory. But that just holds back any kind of progress, especially when it comes to new ideas.

But yeah, I appreciate the sentiment of your posts mate. +1

[Destrab]

There's no point in, for example, a gorgon prime, because the Grineer have used so little Orokin inspiration or technology in that weapon, and in 99.9% of their weapons that a prime is negligble. The way it works is the Orokin weapons are made. Then, the fall of the Orokin empire occurs, Grineer and corpus start their own little factions blah blah, corpus make mindless drones all over the place, Grineer make brainwashed clones all over the place. 

Primes are more or less lost to history, and the artisans and engineers responsible for them are all kaput. Thus, each faction has to start from scratch, with only the minimal technology at hand. (I'm talking about like a few antique handguns and a spaceship or two here.) The expertise on how to create technology in that way was lost, so they each had to just take the Orokin tech and just churn out improvised scraps of technology in order to capitalise on the fall of the Orokin. Since they started from scratch, that's how I'm sure Grineer seemed to just devolve to the point where they used ballistics and explosive weapons, but it's probably to do with the fact that they want high-efficiency equipment that's powered by the spoils of their continued dominion. The Corpus went down a route of energy weapons potentially because they wanted utility as much as military might, being a merchant cult and all. The thing is both the Grineer and the Corpus started over, so they could not replicate Orokin technology in a way that even merits a standard of "inspired" from them. The Tenno have Prime counterparts because they are the remnants of the Orokin, and their expertise in making weapons is closest to that which made Prime weapons. Saying "we want prime tonkor" is lore-breaking because Grineer weapons are completely deviated from every aspect of the Orokin weapons. There you have it.

[Schregger]

Im pretty sure the Grineer weapons, while they may have been based off of Orokin tech, are pure Grineer, and thus are not going to be found primed. And this is coming from someone who would buy the Prime access to what ever warframe, so long as it had a Sobek Prime. 

For the Corpus, its the same deal. The Braton was based off of orokin tech (Braton Prime) as were likely other weapons. But nearly all the prime weapons Ive found thus far, and even the ones I havent (thank god for Wiki), NONE were energy based like most Corpus weapons. Weapons like the Dera, Lanka and Opticor, those are pure Corpus weapons, not Orokin, so likewise, not Primed.

[Apoc001]

1 minute ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

That's possible, but I doubt they'd leave it behind if that was the case, they'd likely still take it for future reference, see it as just another hurdle to jump over. Heck, they could even back engineer the genetic lock tech and use it for themselves. Or maybe even unlock genetic blueprints stored in the memory of the genetic lock? Which would help them restabilise their own genome?

this is extremely doubtful if not completely impossible, for a few reasons:

1. the Grineer as a whole are fairly dim-whited, unless supervised by an officer with the knowhow, the Grineer would pick up the tech, see that they can't use it or get it to work, and toss it in frustration, labeling it as useless trash

2. Synthesis has already told us that if a piece of tech is genetically locked, and you don't match  that genetic makeup, your pretty much screwed, your only option is to obtain a genetic descrambler(also probably locked) and obtain a matching genetic imprint to unlock said tech

3. it is reasonable to believe the Grineer were genetically incapable of utilizing some Orokin tech from the beginning, and since they are currently struggling at maintaining their own makeup, it would be impossible for them to alter it for them to use the higher locked technologies(let alone the fact they would need an existing genetic sample capable of unlocking)

[Master-Ouroboros]

Just now, Destrab said:

There's no point in, for example, a gorgon prime, because the Grineer have used so little Orokin inspiration or technology in that weapon, and in 99.9% of their weapons that a prime is negligble. The way it works is the Orokin weapons are made. Then, the fall of the Orokin empire occurs, Grineer and corpus start their own little factions blah blah, corpus make mindless drones all over the place, Grineer make brainwashed clones all over the place. 

Primes are more or less lost to history, and the artisans and engineers responsible for them are all kaput. Thus, each faction has to start from scratch, with only the minimal technology at hand. (I'm talking about like a few antique handguns and a spaceship or two here.) The expertise on how to create technology in that way was lost, so they each had to just take the Orokin tech and just churn out improvised scraps of technology in order to capitalise on the fall of the Orokin. Since they started from scratch, that's how I'm sure Grineer seemed to just devolve to the point where they used ballistics and explosive weapons, but it's probably to do with the fact that they want high-efficiency equipment that's powered by the spoils of their continued dominion. The Corpus went down a route of energy weapons potentially because they wanted utility as much as military might, being a merchant cult and all. The thing is both the Grineer and the Corpus started over, so they could not replicate Orokin technology in a way that even merits a standard of "inspired" from them. The Tenno have Prime counterparts because they are the remnants of the Orokin, and their expertise in making weapons is closest to that which made Prime weapons. Saying "we want prime tonkor" is lore-breaking because Grineer weapons are completely deviated from every aspect of the Orokin weapons. There you have it.

So basically what you're saying is that when the Orokin empire fell and the Grineer + Corpus began their own factions / civilisations, whatever, that absolutely nobody had any understanding of Orokin tech whatsoever? That nobody could remember at the very least, the scientific principles behind the orokin tech, and attempt to copy it? That absolutely NO Grineer or Corpus technology will have any orokin influence whatsoever, even if it's just from memory? And that over time as the corpus and grineer discovered orokin tech, they wouldn't back-engineer it and attempt to integrate it into their own technology?

I find that highly unlikely.

[Master-Ouroboros]

Ok, I'm not gonna bother responding anymore as it's pretty obvious what's going on here. Pure closed minded nonsense, no room for imagination, no room for discussion, just "you're wrong and this is why."

Mods, please delete this thread.

[Destrab]

Just now, Master-Ouroboros said:

So basically what you're saying is that when the Orokin empire fell and the Grineer + Corpus began their own factions / civilisations, whatever, that absolutely nobody had any understanding of Orokin tech whatsoever? That nobody could remember at the very least, the scientific principles behind the orokin tech, and attempt to copy it? That absolutely NO Grineer or Corpus technology will have any orokin influence whatsoever, even if it's just from memory? And that over time as the corpus and grineer discovered orokin tech, they wouldn't back-engineer it and attempt to integrate it into their own technology?

I find that highly unlikely.

Yes, because 99% of the Orokin Empire was slaughtered? Okay, you tell me. How is Tonkor similar in design to, say, Soma Prime?

[Destrab]

3 minutes ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

Ok, I'm not gonna bother responding anymore as it's pretty obvious what's going on here. Pure closed minded nonsense, no room for imagination, no room for discussion, just "you're wrong and this is why."

Mods, please delete this thread.

Sorry, but your conception for "imagination" is baseless fantasy.

And to quote your title; "This is why "------" CAN and SHOULD be PRIMED>" This was never a discussion. It was your statement, and us rebuking it because it was an illogical statement.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Destrab
To add further argument

[Grimm]

just something to point out. the cronus a weapon used by vor a grineer, originally the stalkers melee has a primed version tho the name doesnt stat it the orignal line for it in the games code was cronus prime. the dakra prime. the tennos weapons are lower tier replications of orokin weapons. the grineer, corpus and infested (LOL) do not have the same level of technology we do as our ships are orokin in design. probably the reason vor stole the segments from our ship was to try and reverse engineer our replication system to create the tech they uncover accurately instead of to their best ability, given his sidearm is a mash of grineer and orokin tech and how he cuddles the janus key... 

 

basically what i'm going at is the reason we have weapons that are just like tenno weapons but different is because the grineer etc tried to recreated it from the orokin design.

E.g the cernos is corpus, dread is stalker, paris is tenno, mut cernos is infested attempt at trying to recreate the orokins weapon the paris prime. tho their attempts may have lead to better version than the original. probably because the orokin may have came to the conclusion that bow and arrow weapons were to primitive #BallasSavage then moving on to crossbows etc. 

 

 

[DefekteDelfin]

Grineer-

Although the Grineer hate the Orokin,they know the Orokin primes are superior so it makes sense that in the early days when the Grineer only numbered in the thousands,several simple Grineer weapons like Buzlok,Marelok or Karak were based on blueprints salvaged from Orokin ships and towers as they didnt have enough resources,nor brains to create efficient original weapons.The Nukor,Tonkor,Ignis,Miter and other more advanced Grineer weaponry show that they now,do indeed create original Grineer weaponry but the earlier weapons could be based off of primes.It is common knowledge that the non-primes are poorly made replicated versions of the original primes,so the Grineer weapons could be Orokin prime blueprints made with their own modifications and themes.

Summary-

 

• Early Grineer weapons based off of Orokin Primes

   

• Only a few prime weapons for the Grineer as they would stop using Orokin Blueprints after their empire grew larger

   

• This would be both lore-friendly and would not start the "PrimePocalypse" (Priming of all weapons)

   

 

 

Corpus-

 

 

 

 

 

The Corpus are shown to worship the Orokin,and actively attrmpt to salvage and rebuild Orokin Equipment and weaponry,shown in Nef Anyo's dialouge , the Sabotage missions and the Orokin hybrids (Fusion MOA,Anti-MOA,Fusion Drone).The Corpus are also known to have existed along with the Orokin as the Vauban prime trailer shows Ballas,an Orokin executioner talking about them actively salavaging wrecks from the Old-war and their automated foundrys.This means that corpus weaponry could have been original as they had the resources.Though with the salvaging of orokin technology,laser gates and hybrids,some of their weaponry could be "knockoffs" or replicas of Orokin weapons.As such,some of their weapons could be primed.

Summary-

• Corpus existed at the time of the Orokin.This means Corpus would have a lot of original weapons.

• Corpus Hybrids show they are trying to use Orokin technology in the creation of their weapons and robotics.This means Corpus "primes" could technically exist as the originals,and Corpus verion as a modified replica.

• Corpus salvaging Old War wreckage,Towers and fighting for control of the Moon shows they are interested in Orokin Technology and are actively looking for them.

Edited May 26, 2016 by DefekteDelfin
Fuc*ing up my formatting.Attempting to fix it

[ToaPhantom]

Dude. . .that's straight up powercreep. Most games try to fix that but this is just spitting on all of the weapons.

[matto]

What if the Gorgon (or the Grakata) is in fact based on the memories Grineers had about the Soma Prime? Using the materials and knowledge they have the model evolved. It serves the same purpose but using Grineer tech.

I like this reverse engineering idea because it would imply that we should get a Tenno (and then Orokin) Grenade launcher etc.

[Guest]

Short answer: No. And I don't care if it's based on lore, so deal with it.

Long answer: No. Having primed variants of weapons makes every single weapon obsolete. If you're trying to give everything a prime version, then maybe you should've fixed the weapon stats in the first place and add more polarity slots, instead of making primed variants so that only new players would care about the non-prime weapons, thus generating a monopoly of prime dominance in the game. Now we could still use syndicate weaponry and normal weapons like the Tonkor to effectively rival prime weapons. If everything has a prime, everything in this game will be primed and thus it renders syndicate weapons and normal weapons useless. And I'm just being curious here. What is your goal exactly, by making everything a prime? Will that satisfy you in any way? Or do you simply want the gleaming gold on your weaponry? 

[ToaPhantom]

I will recommend the F*ck out of this video to the post creator. He clearly doesn't know about the concept of powercreep. Seriously, think before you handle criticism like a baby. Every idea has it's flaws. Don't go complaining like :
 "Wow, approximately 30 seconds in and instant negativity. This must be record.

Well, that already happens. For example when we get prisma, wraith, vandal, or even primed weapons. Or primed Warframes / Sentinels. Whatever things you put all that hard work into are rendered obsolete therefore your hard work is also rendered pointless. 

Well, that's essentially what happens in every game over time. Things get buffed, things get nerfed, new things come out that dwarf the old things.

Hell, it's what happens in life too. Things become obsolete over time, new discoveries are made, new technologies. Hard work is rendered obsolete by these discoveries and by the new opportunities presented to us. It's just what happens."

WATCH FROM 2:45 AND YOU WILL LEARN SOMETHING

 

 

Edited May 25, 2016 by ToaPhantom

[mael9740]

1 hour ago, Master-Ouroboros said:

America is one of the most if not THE most multicultural country on the planet and lots of its traditions, technologies and many other concepts entwined in its society have been derived from other cultures around the world.

But yeah, I'm not saying that the Grineer / Corpus haven't created weapons of their own, of course they have, but a good majority of their technology will be based off Orokin tech.

"Traditions" England exterminated america's native and then colonised it not a while ago. There is no tradition (not including UK's ones).

[(XBOX)Tanta Cinta]

2 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Nah

Straight up savage xD

[_DapperDanMan_]

  From what I  understand, the corpus and grineer were just a unified human/semi human faction colonizing planets before the orokin showed up. Their individual factions didn't divide untill after the Orokin had already arrived. SO yes, in theory you could have "remnants" from before the divide of the factions when they were still unified or stolen technology from before/during the fall but seems contradictory seeing as the time the factions split was during the war. Which is also when they realized they had to start from scratch because nothing they had worked against the sentients so any stolen tech before then would be useless(no primes yet), the primes were made after. They could never "Make a prime", all they could do modify it. (Seer) We know they've been stealing from the void via sabotage missions but primes are made in the void with void energy as a catalyst, which neither of the factions have, nor could perfect as they have no idea how it works.. Not even Vor knows after his corruption. So as far as "Priming" any other grineer or corpus weapons that came later... No. That would just be silly. If that were the case I doubt most of them would need "old word tech" just to keep themselves alive. Pretty sure that fancy collar around salad V would be pretty blinged' out by now too.

 

 However, the concept of "Prime modifications"* is one im really cool with and opens some interesting new doors in terms of lore and answers some very old questions within it. +1

Edited May 25, 2016 by Foxhound4

[Grimm]

9 minutes ago, ToaPhantom said:

I will recommend the F*ck out of this video to the post creator.

 

i agree. and de does this well. removing and rerunning items. keeping to a scale and changing everything instead of using a new system for new weapons they over hault the system. and probably why primed gear is limited to the tenno faction. de change everything nothing becomes bad unless something new that can do its job better comes out rather then something with better stats. its also usability of the thing. theres so many examples of weapons that became dirt with the release of something but was buff to not become S#&$. de try to balance this game as well as they can and they do pretty well. i think Scotts amazing and his work since he started "undercover Bossing it" has been amazing look at the changes we've had since that, there have been someone people have complained about cos they didnt understand what had happened but after people worked it out it was way better then it was before. DE does a wonderful job at doing what's best for the game and the players. tho sometimes they do stuff that drives us nuts. but we are basically one big family. de are lotus they look out for us and only do things that they think is right. de said a long time ago nekros and up would never be primed but since have said otherwise.  

 

oh S#&$ i just remembered something prisma. thats a thing.