Volt Rework Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[Faeduin]

14 minutes ago, Toramaru said:

Ok.

That we certainly don't agree. The point for a rework for me was to enable Volt to scale along the game premises. Speed pre-rework had a somewhat acceptable scalability. It kept that, as it had a single buff (reload speed) and nothing else. I don't consider any of the graphic overhaul or the picking up speed buff as a rework, as it was simply not needed. It even breaks the flow of the skill at some point. Still, Speed is the only skill that somewhat kept it scaling.

Shock certainly didn't scale, and their rework changed its zapping sound... Again, graphic/sound overhaul with no buff/change whatsoever.

ES is still as weird as ever. It displeases me and I don't use it. But aside from my perspective on the skill, let's look at how it is, shall we? It is a board that interrupts travel of objects, mostly bullets, in a small area, with little addition to a game and specially to a Frame that is as Mobile as Volt is. It synergyzes with Shock to some extent, which I haven't tested, will not comment. Now, this is where it gets even weirder: you may pick up your shield and stroll amidst playful shooter. You cannot, however, enjoy said stroll, as you'll be HEAVILY penalized picking up the shield, loosing speed, which Volt already doesn't have, and loosing energy/sec, which our Caster is quite dependent on. Broken mechanics. Again, graphic overhaul, completely negligible. No scalability per se, as the idea behind being static is dreadful on the current end game scenario.

Passive had a lot of potential, but this is where I get perplexed. I do get that damage is cool, but where did the 1.000 damage came from? Should I comment on scalability here?

Last, but not least, Discharge. I liked the idea behind the skill. I liked the proposed mechanic. I even liked the name. But I certainly don't like the skill. Shocking speed does the same job with a twist: you're not locked, you are hitting things, and you're stunning with a 100% chance proc without cast time. Again, Speed has scalability to some extent. The other skills don't, at least not to me. and this sir, lead me to imply DE seemed lost when granting us this utmost "rework". Unless by U19 badies get 1.000 total HP by the 100th level.

You keep mentioning scalability and I think this is where the disconnect comes from. Design direction usually arises from a theme or motif and follows that with it's implementation and adjustment. So the idea for Volt, to be an alternative to gunplay, that design direction is still in effect and still being iterated (adjusted) towards. This has nothing to do with if his powers are amazing or suck or even scale.

 If you see my earlier post, it actually shares some of those sentiments concerning the abilities.

 What I'm saying is, I'm incredibly literal and I think you just had the misfortune of catching my eye with slightly incorrect terminology, no harm no foul.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Kedai

[Aquasurge]

4 minutes ago, Kedai said:

You keep mentioning scalability and I think this is where the disconnect comes from. Design direction usually arises from a theme or motif and follows that with it's implementation and adjustment. So the idea for Volt, to be an alternative to gunplay, that design direction is still in effect and still being iterated (adjusted) towards. This has nothing to do with if his powers are amazing or suck or even scale.

 What I'm saying is, I'm incredibly literal and I think you just had the misfortune of catching my eye with slightly incorrect terminology, no harm no foul.

at least this is calming down now thank god.

[Faeduin]

Just now, Aquasurge said:

at least this is calming down now thank god.

Considering the forums we are on I don't really consider that bit of polite debate anything but calm.

[Lijka]

7 hours ago, Exodess said:

On what data is this based?

There were also few other topics on this, including one where someone posted a screenshot with ludicrous damage done by "new" Saryn's spores. Got a tip for you: look past press four to win and press one and trigger of an ignis to win harder than old Saryn ever could.

[Toramaru]

7 minutes ago, Kedai said:

You keep mentioning scalability and I think this is where the disconnect comes from. Design direction usually arises from a theme or motif and follows that with it's implementation and adjustment. So the idea for Volt, to be an alternative to gunplay, that design direction is still in effect and still being iterated (adjusted) towards. This has nothing to do with if his powers are amazing or suck or even scale.

 

Sir, let's just drop it. I already said we don't agree. That's what I meant when I mentioned the bravado.

And when I insisted on scalability was because I believe Volt pre-rework had real issues on that front. Issues that many other Frames didn't face. The whole idea of a rework phrasing, to me, was intended to fix these issues. Last post was entirely about that.

I also mean no harm, specially when we're discussing the game. I suggest we keep it at that.

[Eostara]

I don't get what people are complaining about - he's awesome! I did 70% of the damage in the long defense with a mag and a mirage with tonkor in my group. 

I love how his abilities synergise so well. Charging the shields with shock seemed to kill any enemies that got too close. I also really like how the new shields look compared to the old ones. His first ability seems way stronger than it used to be. 4th is good in combo with the 1st too. I like how I don't have to aim his 1st ability precisely now.

Really really fun to play; even more so than before.

[YagoXiten]

2 minutes ago, Serien5 said:

I don't get what people are complaining about - he's awesome! I did 70% of the damage in the long defense with a mag and a mirage with tonkor in my group. 

I love how his abilities synergise so well. Charging the shields with shock seemed to kill any enemies that got too close. I also really like how the new shields look compared to the old ones. His first ability seems way stronger than it used to be. 4th is good in combo with the 1st too. I like how I don't have to aim his 1st ability precisely now.

Really really fun to play; even more so than before.

Did you play Volt much before? Shock was entirely unchanged. aside from its interaction with Electric Shield and Discharge (formerly Overload) being added.

[Aquasurge]

7 minutes ago, Serien5 said:

I don't get what people are complaining about - he's awesome! I did 70% of the damage in the long defense with a mag and a mirage with tonkor in my group. 

I love how his abilities synergise so well. Charging the shields with shock seemed to kill any enemies that got too close. I also really like how the new shields look compared to the old ones. His first ability seems way stronger than it used to be. 4th is good in combo with the 1st too. I like how I don't have to aim his 1st ability precisely now.

Really really fun to play; even more so than before.

its just min max problems and QoL changes mainly. mostly around volt's energy efficiency and consumption r8.

or more simply this:

Edited May 28, 2016 by Aquasurge

[Faeduin]

9 minutes ago, Toramaru said:

Sir, let's just drop it. I already said we don't agree. That's what I meant when I mentioned the bravado.

And when I insisted on scalability was because I believe Volt pre-rework had real issues on that front. Issues that many other Frames didn't face. The whole idea of a rework phrasing, to me, was intended to fix these issues. Last post was entirely about that.

I also mean no harm, specially when we're discussing the game. I suggest we keep it at that.

Is English not your native language? I only ask because so far, the only thing I haven't agreed with you on is your terminology (not content, I can't stress that enough) and your desire for just one prevalent build to be designed around. The scalibility issue is something I whole heartedly agree with and I would hope that's why Volt was even considered for a change at all, I also feel like they dropped the ball with it.

 None of what I wrote had the intention of being rude, at any point.

3 minutes ago, Serien5 said:

I don't get what people are complaining about - he's awesome! I did 70% of the damage in the long defense with a mag and a mirage with tonkor in my group. 

I love how his abilities synergise so well. Charging the shields with shock seemed to kill any enemies that got too close. I also really like how the new shields look compared to the old ones. His first ability seems way stronger than it used to be. 4th is good in combo with the 1st too. I like how I don't have to aim his 1st ability precisely now.

Really really fun to play; even more so than before.

Damage is only one factor that most are looking at and also, how did you achieve this, through abilities alone? No melee, no guns? In my opinion the real issue with this rework is all the new limiting factors working in concert, such as his passive discouraging parkour or any sort of airborne maneuver, his riot shield discouraging mobility when the shield was static to begin with.

 I can't even imagine how people expect to use the riot shield mechanic without running on Volt Prime or next to a EV Trinity, if an ability is designed around an upgraded frame, or a completely different one holding your hand... that's just bad design.

[YagoXiten]

8 minutes ago, Kedai said:

Is English not your native language? I only ask because so far, the only thing I haven't agreed with you on is your terminology (not content, I can't stress that enough) and your desire for just one prevalent build to be designed around. The scalibility issue is something I whole heartedly agree with and I would hope that's why Volt was even considered for a change at all, I also feel like they dropped the ball with it.

 None of what I wrote had the intention of being rude, at any point.

Damage is only one factor that most are looking at and also, how did you achieve this, through abilities alone? No melee, no guns? In my opinion the real issue with this rework is all the new limiting factors working in concert, such as his passive discouraging parkour or any sort of airborne maneuver, his riot shield discouraging mobility when the shield was static to begin with.

 I can't even imagine how people expect to use the riot shield mechanic without running on Volt Prime or next to a EV Trinity, if an ability is designed around an upgraded frame, or a completely different one holding your hand... that's just bad design.

The formula used is Meters per Energy = 1 / (1-X) where X is your efficiency percentage written as a decimal. (When you have negative efficiency  it is -(1 / (1-X). The Energy drain per second is the same as a standard toggle ability. You will need both high efficiency and a good duration to keep it held for very long.

Edited May 28, 2016 by YagoXiten

[Eostara]

13 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

its just min max problems and QoL changes mainly. mostly around volt's energy efficiency and consumption r8.

or more simply this:

I do think the energy drain while picking up his shield and moving with it needs to be fixed/changed/removed. Having Zenurik and 750 power with Volt Prime helps though. ;)

[Eostara]

12 minutes ago, Kedai said:

 

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Serien5
wanted to delete but...

[Aquasurge]

2 minutes ago, Serien5 said:

I do think the energy drain while picking up his shield and moving with it needs to be fixed/changed/removed. Having Zenurik and 750 power with Volt Prime helps though. ;)

umm, not everyone has volt prime u know.

[Aquasurge]

1 minute ago, Serien5 said:

Almost entirely using his abilities - wanted to try using him as purely a caster frame. I had Vaykor Hek as well, but only shot the hyenas mostly.

could you show us a screenshot of your build?

[Eostara]

21 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

 

21 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

 

Edited May 28, 2016 by Serien5

[RiouHotaru]

I admit, the consumption doubling up on RES seems a bit high and could use some tweaking.  Otherwise this is a great rework.

[Eostara]

20 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

Did you play Volt much before? Shock was entirely unchanged. aside from its interaction with Electric Shield and Discharge (formerly Overload) being added.

Yeah he was my main for a while. It acts differently compared to before - or I'm just crazy. Seems to chain further/for longer, and you couldn't do the interactions with the shield etc.

14 minutes ago, Kedai said:

Damage is only one factor that most are looking at and also, how did you achieve this, through abilities alone? No melee, no guns? In my opinion the real issue with this rework is all the new limiting factors working in concert, such as his passive discouraging parkour or any sort of airborne maneuver, his riot shield discouraging mobility when the shield was static to begin with.

 I can't even imagine how people expect to use the riot shield mechanic without running on Volt Prime or next to a EV Trinity, if an ability is designed around an upgraded frame, or a completely different one holding your hand... that's just bad design.

Almost entirely using his abilities - wanted to try using him as purely a caster frame. I had Vaykor Hek as well, but only shot the hyenas mostly.

[Eostara]

Sorry - post fail. -_-

[Aquasurge]

1 minute ago, Serien5 said:

Sorry - post fail. -_-

lol, happens to the best of us sometimes

[YagoXiten]

1 minute ago, Serien5 said:

 

Yeah he was my main for a while. It acts differently compared to before - or I'm just crazy. Seems to chain further/for longer, and you couldn't do the interactions with the shield etc.

It has had the soft targetting and one handed cast for quite some time now. If you were unaware, by the way, it also has unlimited targetting range on the first target, though the arc distance is affected by range mods. If you do not directly target an enemy, it will consume an arc to target something if there is something within the arc range. This allows you to still use the ability to stun distant crowds even with Narrow Minded, though you will have to much more accurate with your targetting, and it will not be able to arc to targets that are far away from the initial one.

[-CM-Emptiness]

9 hours ago, Lijka said:

Because quite a few of us dislike being forced to run at Volt's speed when Volt player chooses to. They did what we were asking for: made it an option and it's the best thing they did to Volt.

Riiiight, because Saryn is totally not one of the highest damage frames now.

I suggested this in the wrong forum, but I'll do it again :P

Moving the opt-in/out option to an "accept aid" or "accept speed buff" option within the game settings. This will make the process much smoother for those who don't like Volt's speed (after all, you might accidentally run into volt's coil if he drops it when hes in front of you), and removes the problems associated with the "focus-like" Speed rework for those of us that prefer the speed, as it is counterproductive to run backwards to get a coil, when you are much better off just continuing toward the goal. The current system also completely negates the use of short-burst speed builds which forces players to run long-duration builds if they want efficient use of the speed ability for co-op. As far as I'm concerned, this is the only viable option which solves both parties.

Now, personally, I think electric shield is fine as it is, I just hope nothing happens to it in the future xD.

Also, I haven't used the 4th ability yet, and since I don't really care for it, can't really comment much, however, from a lot of the feedback I can see it is leaning toward a potential utility function although it misses that altogether. This dismisses the purpose of 4ths as powerful ultimate abilities which is the main point of differentiation from the other 3 abilities. For example, MP provides CC and a strong buff, Prism provides CC and raw damage, and Exalted blade turns melee into a cannon. In comparison to the other abilities, which are typically narrow in their application and utility, 4ths are meant to stand out, whether it be their application in co-op play, range, damage or utility. The original Overload provided a moderate level of CC as well as damage, although air targeting wasn't great. This new 4th seems to deal low damage, as well as less application for CC. Honestly, I'm under the impression that DE is mistaking 'uniqueness' for 'powerful ultimates'. If you want a better CC, you would use the 1st ability. If you want damage, you would use the 1st ability. If you want to watch enemies to stop and zap each other, tap that '4',

Just my 2 cents. 

[Eostara]

9 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

could you show us a screenshot of your build?

Sure, it's here, but it's nothing special. I also just slapped it together before doing the alerts and figured something relatively balanced would be good for trying out his rework, so I'm by no means thinking it can't be vastly improved on:

Spoiler

10 minutes ago, Aquasurge said:

umm, not everyone has volt prime u know.

No, I know. I was more just enjoying his juicy amount of power. :) 

[Aquasurge]

4 minutes ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

I suggested this in the wrong forum, but I'll do it again :P

Moving the opt-in/out option to an "accept aid" or "accept speed buff" option within the game settings. This will make the process much smoother for those who don't like Volt's speed (after all, you might accidentally run into volt's coil if he drops it when hes in front of you), and removes the problems associated with the "focus-like" Speed rework for those of us that prefer the speed, as it is counterproductive to run backwards to get a coil, when you are much better off just continuing toward the goal. The current system also completely negates the use of short-burst speed builds which forces players to run long-duration builds if they want efficient use of the speed ability for co-op. As far as I'm concerned, this is the only viable option which solves both parties.

Now, personally, I think electric shield is fine as it is, I just hope nothing happens to it in the future xD.

Also, I haven't used the 4th ability yet, and since I don't really care for it, can't really comment much, however, from a lot of the feedback I can see it is leaning toward a potential utility function although it misses that altogether. This dismisses the purpose of 4ths as powerful ultimate abilities which is the main point of differentiation from the other 3 abilities. For example, MP provides CC and a strong buff, Prism provides CC and raw damage, and Exalted blade turns melee into a cannon. In comparison to the other abilities, which are typically narrow in their application and utility, 4ths are meant to stand out, whether it be their application in co-op play, range, damage or utility. The original Overload provided a moderate level of CC as well as damage, although air targeting wasn't great. This new 4th seems to deal low damage, as well as less application for CC. Honestly, I'm under the impression that DE is mistaking 'uniqueness' for 'powerful ultimates'. If you want a better CC, you would use the 1st ability. If you want damage, you would use the 1st ability. If you want to watch enemies to stop and zap each other, tap that '4',

Just my 2 cents. 

your 2 cents might just point us in the right direction.

shock should be the single target dmg ability with some cc

discharge should be mass cc with some dmg to it.

[Aquasurge]

3 minutes ago, Serien5 said:

Sure, it's here, but it's nothing special. I also just slapped it together before doing the alerts and figured something relatively balanced would be good for trying out his rework, so I'm by no means thinking it can't be vastly improved on:

  Hide contents

No, I know. I was more just enjoying his juicy amount of power. :) 

thanks, i'll test it tomorrow.

[Ziegrif]

I appreciate the FOV reduction on Speed as I no longer get unbearable headaches or a desire to vomit.

So I can actually use Volt again.

But I don't like the opt in nature of speed because when another Volt uses it you cannot use your own Speed making it so you have to wait for it to finish before yours kicks in.