Press 4 To Kill Everything!

[yatin_117]

heres an idea keep the 4 powers but they can only be activated in area s in like crowds of enemies or heavy tough enemies or bosses were MOST people I know us them

[Carcharias]

And don't start up with the contact list idea. I've already mentioned that a pug should be next to viable to a formed party if not equal to one as an option for most to play by.

NO. You are dreaming. You are not going to get a pug and have everyone magically play the way you feel is fun or enjoyable. This is the internet.

There is no way to ensure the behavior in a random pug without punishing everyone.

 

When I started playing I stopped playing with randoms in less then two weeks by making a list. Your stance of "don't start up with the contact list idea" is like someone who's drowning saying "no I do not want a life jacket, just dry up (nerf) the lake a little bit." I don't understand why you would not simply use the tools provided. Instead you want a change to the game that will effect every player simply because you feel that your game play and enjoyment has been negatively effected by some other random people. Playing with random people online doesn't always work out for everyone involved. That's why there is a contact list there in the first place.

 

I don't understand what you're worried about in the first place. Who cares who gets the kill? You get xp either way. If you specifically want the xp to go a certain weapon go play solo. Matter of fact if you don't want to use the contacts list playing solo might be your best bet anyways. Even if you get the nerf you have asked for guess what? Yep that's right you are 100% guaranteed to still run into people in random pugs that "ruin" your play. It is an inherent danger of playing with pugs. And that danger is there in any/all MMOs with random grouping.

 

I am not trying to flame on here so I'll probably bale out after this post, especially cause you have a possible solution to you problem but refuse to use it. But seriously, step back, take a deep breath and look at what your asking for and the reason for it. When you take the stance that everyone else playing the game should change (or be nerfed which will effect everyone) because you feel they are playing in such a fashion that "one player gets to enjoy at the expense of another" it comes across just a little bit narcissistic don't you think?

[Fleetwing]

I love my ults. The whole reason I play caster frames is for that moment of ridiculous asskickery when I hammer on the 4 button and watch my warframe murdercate everything within thirty meters. It was the reason I play prototype and it's the reason that Ember, Frost, Volt, and Saryn are four of my faves.

I could support a rework, but not a nerf. Lower the number of energy orbs? Maybe. Think of the flavor! Put a cap on ultimate abilities? No--by the time you can spam these powers, you, as a player, are incredibly in-tune with your warframe, a master of the fighting arts of the Tenno. By the time your Frost can clear a roomful of level 30 Corpus, he is not just some green newbie with an MK-1; he is a grandmaster, at home on the battlefield, and easily a match for mere foot soldiers.

[-BELLUM-]

NO. You are dreaming. You are not going to get a pug and have everyone magically play the way you feel is fun or enjoyable. This is the internet.

There is no way to ensure the behavior in a random pug without punishing everyone.

 

When I started playing I stopped playing with randoms in less then two weeks by making a list. Your stance of "don't start up with the contact list idea" is like someone who's drowning saying "no I do not want a life jacket, just dry up (nerf) the lake a little bit." I don't understand why you would not simply use the tools provided. Instead you want a change to the game that will effect every player simply because you feel that your game play and enjoyment has been negatively effected by some other random people. Playing with random people online doesn't always work out for everyone involved. That's why there is a contact list there in the first place.

 

I don't understand what you're worried about in the first place. Who cares who gets the kill? You get xp either way. If you specifically want the xp to go a certain weapon go play solo. Matter of fact if you don't want to use the contacts list playing solo might be your best bet anyways. Even if you get the nerf you have asked for guess what? Yep that's right you are 100% guaranteed to still run into people in random pugs that "ruin" your play. It is an inherent danger of playing with pugs. And that danger is there in any/all MMOs with random grouping.

 

I am not trying to flame on here so I'll probably bale out after this post, especially cause you have a possible solution to you problem but refuse to use it. But seriously, step back, take a deep breath and look at what your asking for and the reason for it. When you take the stance that everyone else playing the game should change (or be nerfed which will effect everyone) because you feel they are playing in such a fashion that "one player gets to enjoy at the expense of another" it comes across just a little bit narcissistic don't you think?

Damn right my friend! You're written pretty much exactly how i see it when it come to players wanting to change thing for everyone! Just so they alone can maybe manage a little better, or even just feel superior.

[Voidpunker]

Maybe instead of just nerfing uber abilities, we should try to make them a bit more diverse and give them some more utility. All the damage is great at low levels, but it's just boring and can become useless at high levels.

 

I really like Loki's ability, it's not a CC nuke. It removes the danger and lets you clean up with your weapons (which do damage!). Unfortunatley, it's pretty much inferior to Vauban's 3rd ability (which isn't even his uber!).

[fatpig84]

If the game when % based a lot of things would be rectified.

For example Rhino skin will be X% base on shields.

 

Rhino skin

150%/200%/250%/300%

 

Damage hp = based on your effective shields.

A low level Rhino with 300+ shields with max IS = 1200 Ironskin.

A high level Rhino with 1k shields with max IS = 4000 ironskin.

 

 

Radial Javelin that deals 100%/200%/300%/400% of your melee dps.

If it is based on charge damage, using gram as base.

A naked gram (200 charged dmg) will help you deal 1k damage like now as a start.

 

A tricked out gram will let you.... Hmm I let you figure it out ;)

 

 

It will still hit a wall eventually, but scales a lot better than the stuff we have now.

But things will need to change and enemies need to get more refined than just bullet sponges.

Edited July 10, 2013 by fatpig84

[whitejackale]

They could always make all of the abilities be based off of cooldowns instead of energy that you can endlessly replenish. Or they could make it so that you have to build up your energy by attacking enemies. 

 

I would actually prefer it if they nerfed all of the abilities and made it so that they are more for buffing your characters skills. An example of this would be for the warframes abilities to give temporary buffs to your weapons. Examples of this would be for a support warframe to make the bullets heal allies, debuff enemies, or for an offensive warframe to give certain modifiers to their weapons. An example of offensive modifiers would be for ember to heat up your melee weapon, turn your bullets into explosive projectiles. 

 

The abilities on the warframes could be said to be too awesome because they seem to take a lot of fun out of the game by making it way too easy.

[Tsukinoki]

NO. You are dreaming. You are not going to get a pug and have everyone magically play the way you feel is fun or enjoyable. This is the internet.

There is no way to ensure the behavior in a random pug without punishing everyone.

 

When I started playing I stopped playing with randoms in less then two weeks by making a list. Your stance of "don't start up with the contact list idea" is like someone who's drowning saying "no I do not want a life jacket, just dry up (nerf) the lake a little bit." I don't understand why you would not simply use the tools provided. Instead you want a change to the game that will effect every player simply because you feel that your game play and enjoyment has been negatively effected by some other random people. Playing with random people online doesn't always work out for everyone involved. That's why there is a contact list there in the first place.

 

I don't understand what you're worried about in the first place. Who cares who gets the kill? You get xp either way. If you specifically want the xp to go a certain weapon go play solo. Matter of fact if you don't want to use the contacts list playing solo might be your best bet anyways. Even if you get the nerf you have asked for guess what? Yep that's right you are 100% guaranteed to still run into people in random pugs that "ruin" your play. It is an inherent danger of playing with pugs. And that danger is there in any/all MMOs with random grouping.

 

I am not trying to flame on here so I'll probably bale out after this post, especially cause you have a possible solution to you problem but refuse to use it. But seriously, step back, take a deep breath and look at what your asking for and the reason for it. When you take the stance that everyone else playing the game should change (or be nerfed which will effect everyone) because you feel they are playing in such a fashion that "one player gets to enjoy at the expense of another" it comes across just a little bit narcissistic don't you think?

 Thank you, you are right on the money with this post.

 

I'm not leaving out endgame out of my considerations, but for the most part content from beginning to endgame is still a large portion of the game itself. Ult scaling is improper the way it is.

 

Since you suggest I am leaving endgame out of consideration, how about you consider lower-leveled content and how newer or slower players would feel about those ults ruining their enjoyment of the game?

 

And don't start up with the contact list idea. I've already mentioned that a pug should be next to viable to a formed party if not equal to one as an option for most to play by.

You want to make it so that you can either only use your ults rarely, or only a limited number of times. That COMPLETELY leaves out any of the the current endgame content. So yes, you were ignoring the actual endgame and focusing only on the low levels of play.

And from all that I hear in this thread is that it ruins YOUR enjoyment and the enjoyment of a SMALL minority of new players. For most of the random groups I join running the lower level Mercury, Saturn, and Venus levels dont mind at all when I use Avalanche or World On Fire, or any of the other room clearing abilities. Quite a few actually thank me for getting out of what they consider to be bad situations.

And in the vast majority of games, even with other high level players, they dont use their ult much besides the occasional show-off. I've leveled new frames on mercury, be joined by a level 30 Rhino, and have him only use his ult when I'm about to go down or where it will have the biggest visual impact and look cool.

Once you get up to the levels where most people start gaining access to their ults they start using them quite a bit. And its fun watching enemies fly all over the place and die spectacularly. A lot of people play warframe to be able to blast huge amounts of enemies with a single button press and then use their guns and such to mop up. Imagine that...people enjoy using big damaging abilities and watching large amount of mobs die at once...even if they didn't hit the button.

And the fact is, PUGs are perfectly fine for MOST people. You just happen to be one who thinks that you're so special and that everyone should play your way, instead of you know, actually having fun, that they aren't viable to you.

The problem is not with the game. The problem is with YOU.

And here are your two suggestions:

1) Get a contact list (The horror of playing with people you like!)

2) Play on the higher levels where ults dont do much, if anything. Then you dont have to worry about your precious kills being 'stolen' by someone having fun.

Choose one, stick with it, and stop complaining that people are having fun, but not the fun that you demand that they have instead.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[TheNZX]

How is "play on higher levels" a solution?

 

Higher levels offer nothing compared to the easier places.

1. Only around Pluto does your ult seem to be affected. What's higher than Pluto? Tier 3 void runs that are rare.

2. Higher level places don't have all the drops you need.

3. Lack of significant EXP scaling causes lower level mobile defenses to be far more useful for EXP grinding.

 

While I don't care if people go about nuking enemies, its a simple fact that ULTs are in no balanced in a way that makes sense. If more content came out for high level stuff I would just de-equip the ULT for a better mod.

[Tsukinoki]

How is "play on higher levels" a solution?

Its a solution because the person seems upset that people are having fun nuking rooms and clearing out enemies by using their ults.

If the person would go to higher level missions where you cant clear out rooms with ults their argument becomes a moot point, and it solves their issue because the ults (besides saryn's) no longer wipe a room and 'steal' their kills.

[SmallPaws]

NO. You are dreaming. You are not going to get a pug and have everyone magically play the way you feel is fun or enjoyable. This is the internet.

There is no way to ensure the behavior in a random pug without punishing everyone.

 

When I started playing I stopped playing with randoms in less then two weeks by making a list. Your stance of "don't start up with the contact list idea" is like someone who's drowning saying "no I do not want a life jacket, just dry up (nerf) the lake a little bit." I don't understand why you would not simply use the tools provided. Instead you want a change to the game that will effect every player simply because you feel that your game play and enjoyment has been negatively effected by some other random people. Playing with random people online doesn't always work out for everyone involved. That's why there is a contact list there in the first place.

 

I don't understand what you're worried about in the first place. Who cares who gets the kill? You get xp either way. If you specifically want the xp to go a certain weapon go play solo. Matter of fact if you don't want to use the contacts list playing solo might be your best bet anyways. Even if you get the nerf you have asked for guess what? Yep that's right you are 100% guaranteed to still run into people in random pugs that "ruin" your play. It is an inherent danger of playing with pugs. And that danger is there in any/all MMOs with random grouping.

 

I am not trying to flame on here so I'll probably bale out after this post, especially cause you have a possible solution to you problem but refuse to use it. But seriously, step back, take a deep breath and look at what your asking for and the reason for it. When you take the stance that everyone else playing the game should change (or be nerfed which will effect everyone) because you feel they are playing in such a fashion that "one player gets to enjoy at the expense of another" it comes across just a little bit narcissistic don't you think?

 

 

So, I can't ever play a pug again because it's the internet? Some people can only play a few games a day at best. Why limit them further to find a team they have to build and play at specific times, or even a large clan that may not have the same play-style? You're making it sound as if pugging is entirely not an option, while the fact of the matter is that it is still there as an option, so why not make it a viable one that offers fair, well-balanced gameplay. Of course I add contacts, of course I'm in a clan, does that mean if those people are unavailable I should solo? If that's the case, the game should be oriented to Private, Solo, and not Online, Private, Solo. 

[SmallPaws]

Damn right my friend! You're written pretty much exactly how i see it when it come to players wanting to change thing for everyone! Just so they alone can maybe manage a little better, or even just feel superior.

 

Dude, most players that play with a frame not combat suited doesn't mean they go around and support like you like their your *****. Who feels superior at all when they stand on the crate while you waltz through content and they just watch. They feel inferior if more than anything.

[SmallPaws]

Its a solution because the person seems upset that people are having fun nuking rooms and clearing out enemies by using their ults.

If the person would go to higher level missions where you cant clear out rooms with ults their argument becomes a moot point, and it solves their issue because the ults (besides saryn's) no longer wipe a room and 'steal' their kills.

 

 

So you think the slower progressing player should let a higher level player burn through their content? Of course once everyone is playing at higher level content it really comes down to how well you're equipped, but that doesn't apply to the level 30's going into Terminus and flying through content for the person who just started the game.

[SmallPaws]

How is "play on higher levels" a solution?

 

Higher levels offer nothing compared to the easier places.

1. Only around Pluto does your ult seem to be affected. What's higher than Pluto? Tier 3 void runs that are rare.

2. Higher level places don't have all the drops you need.

3. Lack of significant EXP scaling causes lower level mobile defenses to be far more useful for EXP grinding.

 

While I don't care if people go about nuking enemies, its a simple fact that ULTs are in no balanced in a way that makes sense. If more content came out for high level stuff I would just de-equip the ULT for a better mod.

 

 

Yes, this person understands where I'm coming from. The point that there are FEW exceptional places where going to a high level area would decrease the balancing issues. Not most players have ACCESS to these and the alternatives are to enter games with improper exp scaling. This means games where other players are still experiencing content. Imagine any game with a level system where just as you started the game all the highest level players are there to rush through content you should be experiencing. The typical farms or crap where you're killing spiders or rabbits and then all of a sudden a level ??? comes in and kills everything within miles of you. That is not how I want new players to be experiencing the game just because this is the internet and you can do that.

Edited July 20, 2013 by SmallPaws

[fatpig84]

Now with higher levels, i rarely see press 4 for kill everything now. 

Most people are using the utility, good or bad you decide.

[SmallPaws]

Now with higher levels, i rarely see press 4 for kill everything now. 

Most people are using the utility, good or bad you decide.

 

It still exists, it's just a lot more balanced at the higher levels and that's where the real fun starts. Too bad everything else is a grindfest with lack of immersion and 4 win button everything through it. I'd like to see a utility implement, but oh no, most players cry, "NO DON'T NERF, YOU JUST CAN'T ACCEPT THAT IT'S FUN TO 4 BUTTON YOUR WAY THROUGH EVERYTHING, WHY NOT PLAY WITH 4BUTTON FRAME WINLULZROFLCOPTER."

[Tsukinoki]

@SmallPaws
And now you're just ranting like a troll...

Fact of the matter is that if you dont want to see people steal your precious kills play higher level missions where you cant just "push 4 to win".  Or play with friends.

YOU want to force everyone to play your way because your way is the 'correct' way to play. Well, here's a shocker for you, but YOU'RE WRONG.

You have NO right to try to force your way of playing the game on everyone else simply because YOU dont like it.

And the game just got a difficulty boost, so now you're seeing less "Push 4 to win" because direct damage doesnt scale that well.  So stop complaining.

You cant expect a game to conform to your wishes and wants whenever you want it to when the vast majority of players like it one way.

You have two options:
1) Quit the game and never look back
2) Get over it, and yourself, and stop trying to force people to play the way you want.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Tsukinoki

[fatpig84]

It still exists, it's just a lot more balanced at the higher levels and that's where the real fun starts. Too bad everything else is a grindfest with lack of immersion and 4 win button everything through it. I'd like to see a utility implement, but oh no, most players cry, "NO DON'T NERF, YOU JUST CAN'T ACCEPT THAT IT'S FUN TO 4 BUTTON YOUR WAY THROUGH EVERYTHING, WHY NOT PLAY WITH 4BUTTON FRAME WINLULZROFLCOPTER."

 

I am using a Loki currently.

Direct your awful rant else where :f

[LazyKnight]

I have a 4 key? I almost never slot powers for the ultimate on any frame I play. I use guns almost exclusively to the point I could safely polarize over my skill slots on a few frames.

[J-Pax]

I like my ultimate. I like to use it. I find it useful to have, and I'm sure when I'm playing Nova my ultimate is a definite boon to my team mates. I do agree going into a room, nuking it, scooping up orbs then doing it over again is a bit lame though.

 

Current suggestions so far:

 

1) Change (nerf?) ultimates.

 

2) Change blue orb mechanics.

 

3) Profit.

 

 

If you're in a group with a player that is just nuking every room, they are either lazy or speed running. DE have already talked about matchmaking, where you'd flag yourself for what you're doing and you'll join like minded people. Players that want to nuke every room can join other players that also nuke every room. Players that want to ignore/pry off their 4 key on their keyboard can join like minded players.

 

At the end of it I have to say I'm against changing ultimates. There is no real reason to nerf them other than it clashes with your style of gameplay, which is fair enough if you don't like it, just please don't reach for the nerf bat when other players, quite clearly so, enjoy to use it.

 

 

TL:DR Arguments that comprise of "It's not how I want to play, thus must be removed or changed to fit my playstyle." in essence are bad arguments.

[Jeetza]

The only time I see people spamming 4s is in Defense Missions because there are so many orbs to pick up. This is balanced because defense missions are the hardest missions currently in the game. In a normal game people are only using their ults when they are in tough situations or reviving another player. There isn't enough energy orbs to spam ults in a normal game.

[Nagisawa]

...I wish the Excalibur 4 killed everything...

[XCodes]

...I wish the Excalibur 4 killed everything...

Excal users are just going to have to deal with instead of the 4 killing everything, it's the 1 that kills everything, makes them invulnerable, and moves them a safe distance away from where they were before.

My suggestion: your 4 burns ALL your energy, whether it be 1 or 500, and the effect scales to the amount of energy spent.  500 energy Ember ult really sets the entire @(*()$ world on fire, or they can just use it at 1 and play the role of a nice, warm campfire to the various infested eating her corpse.

[Delirious_Panda]

much easier solution ... lower the drop rate of power orbs.

This would be great in some circumstances but then in others it actually becomes quite bad because sometimes pressing 4 does become a panic button.(unless u a loki then its 2)

[Grinbringer]

There -is- a problem with what you mentioned, but its made only worse by the problem of WF abilities being massively lame and (almost) always following the same pattern.

 

Ultimates should behave differently to normal spammable abilities. I propose a combo-meter you build to unleash your Ultimate. I.e. you have to work for the power you get and use it strategically. Additionally the ultimates should be reworked in accordance to their Warframes, not everything needs to be exactly the same AOE DAMAGE LOLOLOLOL. Out of all 13 Frames the only frames that do not have damage ultimates are Loki, Rhino and Trinity.

 

This is the issue that I've also noticed. Many abilities are too similar between classes. They already can use all the same weapons and sentinels, so they don't feel as different as they could. Slash dash and Rhino charge, all AOE nukes (Rhino stomp too nowadays). I suggest taking a look at classes and changing them to always use different mechanics. It's better to have fewer classes that a different to each other than some lazy copy-paste abilities with minor differences in animations and particle effects. You can look at RPG abilities for inspiration. Some examples:

 

* Current pattern. AOE centered on your character, has cast time, has CC, does damage at the end.

 

* AOE nuke that is not centered on you, but applied where you aim (similar to Loki decoy placement).

 

* Instant cast. Ability lasts for X second and you can move around applying its effects to new enemies while it lasts.

 

* Channeled. You start casting and do damage each second. Enemies are not CC-d and can interrupt you.

 

* Cone AOE. Longer range in front, total area is the same.

 

* Combo points and synergy between several abilities.

 

These are just some examples and these features can be tweaked and combined in different ways. Each class should use a different one.

Edited July 20, 2013 by Grinbringer