Blessing Drastic Changes: No More Insta Heals!

[BCAW]

From my perspective, most of the changes you have listed are based on theory-crafting without context. Allow me to explain.

In your first paragraph you have stated that "  Theoretically, a dedicated enough Trinity could literally stare at an enemy, turn it into an energy battery and hit 4 after every cast forever. " While that is certainly true in theory, doing nothing but spamming 2 and 4 is detrimental in most scenarios. Firstly, both EV and Blessing makes Trinity a sitting duck due to casting animation, which leaves her in a vulnerable position. That is especially evident if you run the typical negative duration EV build, which would indeed allow you to spam abilities endlessly, but, even with the present incarnation of blessing, the lack of damage reduction plus the casting time can be fatal. If you were to run a more balanced build with more duration, then your energy efficiency would not be as great, as you would have to either wait for EV to go through its duration or kill the EV target. Both of these options requires even more standing around and being vulnerable. In addition to vulnerability when casting, keep in mind that in most game types, the objective is not to stand around and be invincible: for survivals, you must kill and activate life support to stay in the mission; for defense, you need to protect the objective; for interception, you need to capture points and prevent enemies from re-capping them. Sure, you can stand around and mash 2 and 4, but while you are doing that, you are not contributing to the objective. Therefore, while it is theoretically possible to stand still and mash 2 and 4 for eternity, that strategy has very little application within the context of gameplay.

Now, as to the changes you propose, I can see ways they can be exploited to be quite broken. According to your description of "threat of death", allies who are able to be killed within three seconds are eligible to Bless. That would seem to restrict the number of scenarios in which Bless would be applicable, until you take enemy scaling into account. Past the first rotation C of most high level endless missions, the enemies are quite capable of killing most frames in under 3 seconds, which means Bless would be applicable at almost all times. As for gating the refreshing buffs on allies with duration, all that would do is encourage negative duration builds even more to make Bless spammable, which would result in massive spammable AOE knockdowns and constant 300% damage buff, along with neutralizing enemy projectiles. Ironically, this would make the "stand around and mash 2 and 4" kind of playstyle practical. Bless would be practically unusable in lower levels due to lack of enemy damage, and spammable in higher levels due to enemy damage, instead of consistently performing across all levels.

Lastly, like some of the others here have stated, until enemy damage scaling is toned down, damage reduction will remain an important part of game balancing. Removing the damage reduction and the instant healing simultaneously would remove its Bless' identity as an ability that keeps the team alive, and turn it into a team wide CC and damage buff in ways stated in the previous paragraph, which is even more broken than the current incarnation of Bless.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but from your post, it appears that you do not have a lot of experience playing Trinity, and have based on your ideas for revision purely on theories. I strongly recommend that you go play Trinity for some time and see how applicable your theories are. Theory without practical uses are meaningless and should not, in my opinion, be considered in making practical changes.

[jjpdn]

42 minutes ago, BCAW said:

From my perspective, most of the changes you have listed are based on theory-crafting without context. Allow me to explain.

In your first paragraph you have stated that "  Theoretically, a dedicated enough Trinity could literally stare at an enemy, turn it into an energy battery and hit 4 after every cast forever. " While that is certainly true in theory, doing nothing but spamming 2 and 4 is detrimental in most scenarios. Firstly, both EV and Blessing makes Trinity a sitting duck due to casting animation, which leaves her in a vulnerable position. That is especially evident if you run the typical negative duration EV build, which would indeed allow you to spam abilities endlessly, but, even with the present incarnation of blessing, the lack of damage reduction plus the casting time can be fatal. If you were to run a more balanced build with more duration, then your energy efficiency would not be as great, as you would have to either wait for EV to go through its duration or kill the EV target. Both of these options requires even more standing around and being vulnerable. In addition to vulnerability when casting, keep in mind that in most game types, the objective is not to stand around and be invincible: for survivals, you must kill and activate life support to stay in the mission; for defense, you need to protect the objective; for interception, you need to capture points and prevent enemies from re-capping them. Sure, you can stand around and mash 2 and 4, but while you are doing that, you are not contributing to the objective. Therefore, while it is theoretically possible to stand still and mash 2 and 4 for eternity, that strategy has very little application within the context of gameplay.

Now, as to the changes you propose, I can see ways they can be exploited to be quite broken. According to your description of "threat of death", allies who are able to be killed within three seconds are eligible to Bless. That would seem to restrict the number of scenarios in which Bless would be applicable, until you take enemy scaling into account. Past the first rotation C of most high level endless missions, the enemies are quite capable of killing most frames in under 3 seconds, which means Bless would be applicable at almost all times. As for gating the refreshing buffs on allies with duration, all that would do is encourage negative duration builds even more to make Bless spammable, which would result in massive spammable AOE knockdowns and constant 300% damage buff, along with neutralizing enemy projectiles. Ironically, this would make the "stand around and mash 2 and 4" kind of playstyle practical. Bless would be practically unusable in lower levels due to lack of enemy damage, and spammable in higher levels due to enemy damage, instead of consistently performing across all levels.

Lastly, like some of the others here have stated, until enemy damage scaling is toned down, damage reduction will remain an important part of game balancing. Removing the damage reduction and the instant healing simultaneously would remove its Bless' identity as an ability that keeps the team alive, and turn it into a team wide CC and damage buff in ways stated in the previous paragraph, which is even more broken than the current incarnation of Bless.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but from your post, it appears that you do not have a lot of experience playing Trinity, and have based on your ideas for revision purely on theories. I strongly recommend that you go play Trinity for some time and see how applicable your theories are. Theory without practical uses are meaningless and should not, in my opinion, be considered in making practical changes.

Your first point is easily fixed. You go to one of the spawn rooms, kill all the enemies except one, and energy battery it (use 1 to keep health up, use 2 for energy). Then, spam 4. Or, replace the room with Volt shields. Frost bubble. Whatever. The rest of your teammates can deal with the other enemies/objective.  Been there done that. 

Good point on your example of exploits though. I'll think of something new. 

On your last note, sorry, but Trinity is still somehow my most played Warframe even if I have been toning down her use since I've been trying to git gud at Nekros/Oberon and those lesser played Warframes. I've found that years of ability spam has been detrimental to my actual skills. 

Ugh... gosh, this Trinity problem is just pure stupid. 

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[motorfirebox]

40 minutes ago, BCAW said:

In your first paragraph you have stated that "  Theoretically, a dedicated enough Trinity could literally stare at an enemy, turn it into an energy battery and hit 4 after every cast forever. " While that is certainly true in theory, doing nothing but spamming 2 and 4 is detrimental in most scenarios. Firstly, both EV and Blessing makes Trinity a sitting duck due to casting animation, which leaves her in a vulnerable position. That is especially evident if you run the typical negative duration EV build, which would indeed allow you to spam abilities endlessly, but, even with the present incarnation of blessing, the lack of damage reduction plus the casting time can be fatal. If you were to run a more balanced build with more duration, then your energy efficiency would not be as great, as you would have to either wait for EV to go through its duration or kill the EV target. Both of these options requires even more standing around and being vulnerable. In addition to vulnerability when casting, keep in mind that in most game types, the objective is not to stand around and be invincible: for survivals, you must kill and activate life support to stay in the mission; for defense, you need to protect the objective; for interception, you need to capture points and prevent enemies from re-capping them. Sure, you can stand around and mash 2 and 4, but while you are doing that, you are not contributing to the objective. Therefore, while it is theoretically possible to stand still and mash 2 and 4 for eternity, that strategy has very little application within the context of gameplay.

Well, avoiding damage as Trin is pretty simple. You just tuck yourself out of the way somewhere. And if the other three guys on your team aren't using their permanently-full energy bars to murderize anything and everything that pops over the horizon, that's them being bad players. As Trin, your primary function is to provide energy and heals; if you have to do anything else, your team is failing you.

And honestly, a good Trin can carry all but the absolute worst teams. Alternately mashing 2 and 4 really is the best thing to do as Trin. If you have to do much else, you're probably doomed anyway.

[kleerr2]

3 hours ago, jjpdn said:

Expand?

You remade alot of your post but i'll adress some points:

On 11.06.2016 г. at 7:33 AM, jjpdn said:

Shockwave ragdolls all enemies hit by it, but deals no damage

-staggers any enemy that was targeting that ally (affected by power duration).

This is a stagger versus ragdoll situation here. They are not the same thing as one is a stun, wheras the other one flings the target around the map...

On 11.06.2016 г. at 7:33 AM, jjpdn said:

-makes every ally that takes non-self inflicted fatal or heavy damage within 1 second

-Fatal damage is ignored

Every ally where? What range? Infinite?

You have a timeframe of 1 second to press the button before lethal damages occur to allies(only to allies, or to self aswell?), which means that, not only will you have to look at your team's hp in general, but you have to also spectate(in a sense) their gameplay, and per say: Activate the ability right before a bombard missile hits an ally. Which in midst of swarm combat(most of which is ranged) is mind bottling.

If you dont make it within the timeframe, by make it, im assuming you have to target an ally and activate the ability, your teammate is fokd...

On 11.06.2016 г. at 7:33 AM, jjpdn said:

-one of the toughest enemies near the ally is transformed into a Well of Life (unaffected by power range), but doesn't gain health 10x (unlike Trinity's first ability). This enemy takes 100% more damage too. (max heal and duration is affected by power strength and duration)

And? Am i supposed to shoot it, or my ally is, or the enemy is, or what... Its supposed to replenish hp if i read this right, but how much? And am i/ally/enemy supposed to follow the ragdolled enemy across half the map, or shoot it like a pinata...

On 11.06.2016 г. at 7:33 AM, jjpdn said:

Blessing is broken in a way no other healing ability has ever been broken before in like... the history of video games.

-*NEW* empowers ally with 300% damage (on top of any other buff, multiplicately) for the next X seconds, same as the duration of the edited Well of Life

Since when does a heal ability offer a 300% dmg buff(on top of the WOL enemy receiving 100% more dmg while not having x10 hp). The hell is this...

So while the ally has next to no hp left, and the enemies are either ragdolled across the map, or staggered for who knows how long, you will give the ally a 300% dmg buff, so the ally can debate: gun down enemies, or replenish health, or what... The more i read into this, the more it does not make sense...

- - - - - -

All in all, you are trying to make an ability that heals hp and shields into an ability that relies heavily on babysitting allies, cc's enemies, makes allies do x3 times more dmg and whatnot. That is not a skill that belongs in the kit of a healer frame... If anything it could potentially swap for WOL, but i think even that will be a mistake, plus i see nothing wrong with blessing, as this is not your ''like the rest'' types of games. Trying to compare warframe to halo, mass effect and zelda is laughable...

[BCAW]

10 hours ago, jjpdn said:

Your first point is easily fixed. You go to one of the spawn rooms, kill all the enemies except one, and energy battery it (use 1 to keep health up, use 2 for energy). Then, spam 4. Or, replace the room with Volt shields. Frost bubble. Whatever. The rest of your teammates can deal with the other enemies/objective.  Been there done that. 

Good point on your example of exploits though. I'll think of something new. 

On your last note, sorry, but Trinity is still somehow my most played Warframe even if I have been toning down her use since I've been trying to git gud at Nekros/Oberon and those lesser played Warframes. I've found that years of ability spam has been detrimental to my actual skills. 

Ugh... gosh, this Trinity problem is just pure stupid. 

 

10 hours ago, motorfirebox said:

Well, avoiding damage as Trin is pretty simple. You just tuck yourself out of the way somewhere. And if the other three guys on your team aren't using their permanently-full energy bars to murderize anything and everything that pops over the horizon, that's them being bad players. As Trin, your primary function is to provide energy and heals; if you have to do anything else, your team is failing you.

And honestly, a good Trin can carry all but the absolute worst teams. Alternately mashing 2 and 4 really is the best thing to do as Trin. If you have to do much else, you're probably doomed anyway.

The strategy of "hide in a corner and spam 2 and 4" requires a couple of things in unison to work. Firstly, the entire team must be in range for EV and Bless, which doesn't happen a lot outside of defense missions, unless you include meta strategies like sewer camping in the void or box camping on Draco. Secondly, the team you are with must not nuke indiscriminately, otherwise the Trinity will have nothing to EV off of; in my experience, people love to nuke whenever they can. Thirdly, you are choosing to use what I assume is a negative duration EV build which is gimped in many ways (useless Link, negligible duration on Bless damage reduction, can't revive people safely when they go down, can't activate life support safely) and entrusting your teammate to do everything for you, possibly with similarly gimped build like RJ Excal that excels at one thing and fails at everything else. Again, from my own experience, that is a good way to fail missions with objectives and become disappointed in humanity. Min-maxing and using meta team comp is a choice, a choice with consequences. A meta team comp that excels at one thing, in this case, spamming nuke abilities, will fail inevitably when something that counters it shows up (nullifiers, ancients etc), and you would leave yourself with no tools to counter attack. If you believe that to be a good thing, then it is obvious that we have nothing in common when it comes to preferred playstyles and there is no more to discuss.

And, as I have mentioned, the varied mission types in this game, with the new addition of sortie conditions, ensures that there isn't one meta that is optimal for all situations. Sure, you can sit in a Frost bubble, spam 2 and 4 all day and let some nuker have their fun, but all that gets you are kills. That life support isn't going to replenish itself; that next mobile defense terminal or excavator isn't going to activate itself; that interception point is not going to cap itself. Just because a frame or a meta team comp is good at one thing doesn't mean it breaks the game. And really, it is my opinion that Warframes should not be balanced around specific team comps that are only optimal in specific circumstances, instead of its application in all scenarios.

Theories without practical uses are meaningless. Theories that are practical in a very specific scenario is only applicable to that specific scenario. If you want to make practical changes that applies to all possible scenarios, context must be considered.

[BCAW]

9 hours ago, kleerr2 said:

You remade alot of your post but i'll adress some points:

This is a stagger versus ragdoll situation here. They are not the same thing as one is a stun, wheras the other one flings the target around the map...

Every ally where? What range? Infinite?

You have a timeframe of 1 second to press the button before lethal damages occur to allies(only to allies, or to self aswell?), which means that, not only will you have to look at your team's hp in general, but you have to also spectate(in a sense) their gameplay, and per say: Activate the ability right before a bombard missile hits an ally. Which in midst of swarm combat(most of which is ranged) is mind bottling.

If you dont make it within the timeframe, by make it, im assuming you have to target an ally and activate the ability, your teammate is fokd...

And? Am i supposed to shoot it, or my ally is, or the enemy is, or what... Its supposed to replenish hp if i read this right, but how much? And am i/ally/enemy supposed to follow the ragdolled enemy across half the map, or shoot it like a pinata...

Since when does a heal ability offer a 300% dmg buff(on top of the WOL enemy receiving 100% more dmg while not having x10 hp). The hell is this...

So while the ally has next to no hp left, and the enemies are either ragdolled across the map, or staggered for who knows how long, you will give the ally a 300% dmg buff, so the ally can debate: gun down enemies, or replenish health, or what... The more i read into this, the more it does not make sense...

- - - - - -

All in all, you are trying to make an ability that heals hp and shields into an ability that relies heavily on babysitting allies, cc's enemies, makes allies do x3 times more dmg and whatnot. That is not a skill that belongs in the kit of a healer frame... If anything it could potentially swap for WOL, but i think even that will be a mistake, plus i see nothing wrong with blessing, as this is not your ''like the rest'' types of games. Trying to compare warframe to halo, mass effect and zelda is laughable...

"All in all, you are trying to make an ability that heals hp and shields into an ability that relies heavily on babysitting allies, cc's enemies, makes allies do x3 times more dmg and whatnot. That is not a skill that belongs in the kit of a healer frame... If anything it could potentially swap for WOL, but i think even that will be a mistake, plus i see nothing wrong with blessing, as this is not your ''like the rest'' types of games. Trying to compare warframe to halo, mass effect and zelda is laughable..."

Thank you so much for bringing this up. I personally find it mind-boggling when people compare Warframe to these other titles you mentioned. The gameplay of Warframe is nothing like Halo, which as far as I know doesn't have much in terms of abilities, proper melee system or extreme agility. And while Mass Effect multiplayer gives each class a set of abilities, keep in mind that Mass Effect plays primarily like a cover-shooter/RPG hybrid compared to Warframe's run-and-game/hack-and-slash with RPG elements on top. Legend of Zelda is a RPG title that does not have a combat system that is remotely similar to Warframe.

In addition, it is my experience that a fair number of people seem to be overly fixated on the concept of classic RPG classes like rogues, mages and healers. Sure, that kind of class system can be find in lots of RPGs, but problem arises when people arbitrarily assign these titles to Warframes and gets upset when a Warframe does not conform to the traits of the traditional classes. Instead of designating Trinity as a "traditional healer" and being upset because she can perform in ways that a traditional RPG healer cannot (team-buff damage reduction, minor CC, relatively strong tanking ability), why not see Trinity as a "Trinity class"? One of the reasons I love this game is because every frame does multiple things, instead of being locked into one role like traditional RPG classes. And, with the inclusion of weapons, even the most supportive frames like Trinity are able to put out decent damage. I believe that Warframes should not be compared to traditional RPG roles that are good for only one kind of gameplay, but rather, all Warframes should have multiple defining traits that should be encouraged to be utilized in tandem.   

[motorfirebox]

3 minutes ago, BCAW said:

 

The strategy of "hide in a corner and spam 2 and 4" requires a couple of things in unison to work. Firstly, the entire team must be in range for EV and Bless, which doesn't happen a lot outside of defense missions, unless you include meta strategies like sewer camping in the void or box camping on Draco. Secondly, the team you are with must not nuke indiscriminately, otherwise the Trinity will have nothing to EV off of; in my experience, people love to nuke whenever they can. Thirdly, you are choosing to use what I assume is a negative duration EV build which is gimped in many ways (useless Link, negligible duration on Bless damage reduction, can't revive people safely when they go down, can't activate life support safely) and entrusting your teammate to do everything for you, possibly with similarly gimped build like RJ Excal that excels at one thing and fails at everything else. Again, from my own experience, that is a good way to fail missions with objectives and become disappointed in humanity. Min-maxing and using meta team comp is a choice, a choice with consequences. A meta team comp that excels at one thing, in this case, spamming nuke abilities, will fail inevitably when something that counters it shows up (nullifiers, ancients etc), and you would leave yourself with no tools to counter attack. If you believe that to be a good thing, then it is obvious that we have nothing in common when it comes to preferred playstyles and there is no more to discuss.

And, as I have mentioned, the varied mission types in this game, with the new addition of sortie conditions, ensures that there isn't one meta that is optimal for all situations. Sure, you can sit in a Frost bubble, spam 2 and 4 all day and let some nuker have their fun, but all that gets you are kills. That life support isn't going to replenish itself; that next mobile defense terminal or excavator isn't going to activate itself; that interception point is not going to cap itself. Just because a frame or a meta team comp is good at one thing doesn't mean it breaks the game. And really, it is my opinion that Warframes should not be balanced around specific team comps that are only optimal in specific circumstances, instead of its application in all scenarios.

Theories without practical uses are meaningless. Theories that are practical in a very specific scenario is only applicable to that specific scenario. If you want to make practical changes that applies to all possible scenarios, context must be considered.

Man, Trinity is my most-used frame and Trin Prime is right next to her. These aren't theories without practical uses, these are how I play Trinity successfully in long T4 runs and sorties. If other players are out of range of my heals, that's on them and there's nothing I can do about it. Low duration isn't a problem, because I've learned not to depend on Link and Blessing DR to stay alive.

For myself, I tend to find in this game that it's better to excel at one area than to be mediocre in a lot of areas.

[TheDelighted]

I do not agree with these changes. We already have plenty of cc warframes, and trinity is the only healer in warframe worth playing. She does no damage with her abilities and is compensated for that through healing power, she already got a huge nerf reducing her healing effectiveness to a 50 m radius as well as her damage reduction formula is also changed. Trinity sucks at soloing, and peaks at co-operating like most supports in all video games do, I don't get why she is so much hated.

[jjpdn]

1 hour ago, BCAW said:

"All in all, you are trying to make an ability that heals hp and shields into an ability that relies heavily on babysitting allies, cc's enemies, makes allies do x3 times more dmg and whatnot. That is not a skill that belongs in the kit of a healer frame... If anything it could potentially swap for WOL, but i think even that will be a mistake, plus i see nothing wrong with blessing, as this is not your ''like the rest'' types of games. Trying to compare warframe to halo, mass effect and zelda is laughable..."

Thank you so much for bringing this up. I personally find it mind-boggling when people compare Warframe to these other titles you mentioned. The gameplay of Warframe is nothing like Halo, which as far as I know doesn't have much in terms of abilities, proper melee system or extreme agility. And while Mass Effect multiplayer gives each class a set of abilities, keep in mind that Mass Effect plays primarily like a cover-shooter/RPG hybrid compared to Warframe's run-and-game/hack-and-slash with RPG elements on top. Legend of Zelda is a RPG title that does not have a combat system that is remotely similar to Warframe.

In addition, it is my experience that a fair number of people seem to be overly fixated on the concept of classic RPG classes like rogues, mages and healers. Sure, that kind of class system can be find in lots of RPGs, but problem arises when people arbitrarily assign these titles to Warframes and gets upset when a Warframe does not conform to the traits of the traditional classes. Instead of designating Trinity as a "traditional healer" and being upset because she can perform in ways that a traditional RPG healer cannot (team-buff damage reduction, minor CC, relatively strong tanking ability), why not see Trinity as a "Trinity class"? One of the reasons I love this game is because every frame does multiple things, instead of being locked into one role like traditional RPG classes. And, with the inclusion of weapons, even the most supportive frames like Trinity are able to put out decent damage. I believe that Warframes should not be compared to traditional RPG roles that are good for only one kind of gameplay, but rather, all Warframes should have multiple defining traits that should be encouraged to be utilized in tandem.   

This "Trinity Class" is a synonym for easy mode. No skill required to be good (though skill required to have fun). I don't think I need to say anymore. 

Traditional or not, this is a mistake. Like I said before, all her abilities depend on how fast she can recast. Thats just dumb. If I wanted to play cookie clickers, I could have done that instead

1 hour ago, TheDelighted said:

I do not agree with these changes. We already have plenty of cc warframes, and trinity is the only healer in warframe worth playing. She does no damage with her abilities and is compensated for that through healing power, she already got a huge nerf reducing her healing effectiveness to a 50 m radius as well as her damage reduction formula is also changed. Trinity sucks at soloing, and peaks at co-operating like most supports in all video games do, I don't get why she is so much hated.

I see you haven't played Trinity much. She can solo easy. After all, dmg is from weapons. Need CC? Torid, or just Tonkor them. 

And she is' not getting hatred. She needs balance.

Someone has to find a point between powerful and interesting to play. I'm trying my hardest, but I know I'm not the one. What's your guys idea anyways? Though, most of you guys like buttom spam Lobster as she is now. 

Infinite repeated button mash is NOT fun after the first week.

Edited June 12, 2016 by jjpdn

[jjpdn]

11 hours ago, kleerr2 said:

You remade alot of your post but i'll adress some points:

This is a stagger versus ragdoll situation here. They are not the same thing as one is a stun, wheras the other one flings the target around the map...

Every ally where? What range? Infinite?

You have a timeframe of 1 second to press the button before lethal damages occur to allies(only to allies, or to self aswell?), which means that, not only will you have to look at your team's hp in general, but you have to also spectate(in a sense) their gameplay, and per say: Activate the ability right before a bombard missile hits an ally. Which in midst of swarm combat(most of which is ranged) is mind bottling.

If you dont make it within the timeframe, by make it, im assuming you have to target an ally and activate the ability, your teammate is fokd...

And? Am i supposed to shoot it, or my ally is, or the enemy is, or what... Its supposed to replenish hp if i read this right, but how much? And am i/ally/enemy supposed to follow the ragdolled enemy across half the map, or shoot it like a pinata...

Since when does a heal ability offer a 300% dmg buff(on top of the WOL enemy receiving 100% more dmg while not having x10 hp). The hell is this...

So while the ally has next to no hp left, and the enemies are either ragdolled across the map, or staggered for who knows how long, you will give the ally a 300% dmg buff, so the ally can debate: gun down enemies, or replenish health, or what... The more i read into this, the more it does not make sense...

- - - - - -

All in all, you are trying to make an ability that heals hp and shields into an ability that relies heavily on babysitting allies, cc's enemies, makes allies do x3 times more dmg and whatnot. That is not a skill that belongs in the kit of a healer frame... If anything it could potentially swap for WOL, but i think even that will be a mistake, plus i see nothing wrong with blessing, as this is not your ''like the rest'' types of games. Trying to compare warframe to halo, mass effect and zelda is laughable...

300% damage buff since when?  Since when you needed to press 4 in a 1 second time frame. 

Yes. You have a 1 second time frame to completely change the game. Its longer than you think, especially in the middle of a battle. Blessing Trinity players should knows that feeling when you look to the side, see the health bar going down, be like 'oh crap' and everything slows down as your finger moves towards 4. 

A Bombard missile is a bad example. With any other ability, that ally is going down anyways. Normally 2-3 missiles come at you every salvo, so if one's downing your teammate, nothing will save him. Well, except if you used Total Eclipse. But thats very hard, as you would need to know where its dark in the tile, as its very picky. However, with this Blessing, if you notice, you actually  CAN save him. The possibility is good enough. It could be literally a Ballista shot, a nuke, whatever. If you react in that 1 second, you save him (and everyone else) and turn the game around. 

Gosh. This Blessing problem has gone for so long that people don't know how Well of Life works anymore. Though, now that I think about it, was there even a time where Blessing didn't overshadow Well of Life? Actually, you got a really good reason for why you don't know it. 

...what, how else would it work? Somehow a stagger overpowers a shockwave that sends you flying? Of course everyone who is NOT hit by the shockwave will get staggered, while the rest get sent flying!

No. Its not something that belongs in a healer frame. It belongs to Trinity, "the beacon of hope", the savior who raises you when you fall. Anything else would just be a new spammable ability. If Blessing had a longer window, you would get to cast EV inbetween and the spam is back. Her first two should be team sustain, third should be self buff and fourth should be a saving button. Its just... well, logical. I dunno how though. 

[kleerr2]

16 hours ago, jjpdn said:

300% damage buff since when?  Since when you needed to press 4 in a 1 second time frame.

Why the hell does it have to be a dmg boost? Atleast dmg reduction makes some sense, a dmg buff does not belong in the kit of a protector/healer frame, atleast in my humble opinion...

16 hours ago, jjpdn said:

Yes. You have a 1 second time frame to completely change the game. Its longer than you think, especially in the middle of a battle. Blessing Trinity players should knows that feeling when you look to the side, see the health bar going down, be like 'oh crap' and everything slows down as your finger moves towards 4.

Nothing slows down, bruh... literally nothing! Unless you have low FPS... It would not ''change the game'', nor its outcome, because your idea of a skill rework is absolute s**t(pardon language). There are so many factors to consider, you are just scraping the grass infront of the forest here... With your proposed rework, just watching the ally's health bar is not going to be sufficient, you will have to become literally the ally's shadow, always have a direct line of sight with said ally, and micromanage enemies/projectiles/particle effects and what-ever-else could possibly pop up on your screen... and you have 1 second to target the ally and activate the ability(activation time? being?)... and guess what, if you miss the period by being too fast, or too slow... your ally is downed and you wasted all your effort to pull off the ability, and wasted energy aswell.

Activating the effect just for yourself as a trinity would require precise awereness, doing that for allies... And what if you manage to pull it off, and the ally decides to not heal, but abuse the x3 dmg multiplier you gave him, hmm? Are you going to run around all day to save his *ss?! Because if you haven't realised, that is the only function your rework of the ability represents...

17 hours ago, jjpdn said:

A Bombard missile is a bad example. With any other ability, that ally is going down anyways. Normally 2-3 missiles come at you every salvo, so if one's downing your teammate, nothing will save him.

Oh, nothing will save him you say. You mean 'something' like:

Mesa's shatter shield, that not only redirects rockets, but can reach upwards of 95% DR, and its augment prevents continuous enemy fire on self.

Rhino's iron skin, which is practically an invulnerable buff.

Loki's Invisibility, which is one step away from invulnerability.

Ash's smokescreen, which is also an invis, bladestorm which offers invul.

I could go on but you get the point... And as you can see, alot of frames can easily dissapear, or be very hard to keep track of with their mobility, making your babysit idea outrageous...

17 hours ago, jjpdn said:

It could be literally a Ballista shot, a nuke, whatever. If you react in that 1 second, you save him (and everyone else) and turn the game around.

If you could activate the skill, just for yourself while rolling in all kinds of gunfire, that would be a feat... because you know why? You have to activate it just before lethal dmg structs, its not like pre nerf bless's DR where the enemy can shoot your hp down to 10 and you need to not die before activating the skill to get the high DR...

Oh, by the way... There is this weapon's fire called hitscan, and guess what... it is not a projectile, and has no travel speed...

17 hours ago, jjpdn said:

Gosh. This Blessing problem has gone for so long that people don't know how Well of Life works anymore. Though, now that I think about it, was there even a time where Blessing didn't overshadow Well of Life? Actually, you got a really good reason for why you don't know it.

I know how WoL works, but as a person that suggests a rework of a skill, you need to specifically underline exactly how every aspect of the new skill will work, even if it is incorporating an already existing one, plus i saw nothing among the lines of: ''the WoL part will function the same way it does now''. So...

Was there ever a time when the 1st ability of a frame should overshadow its 4th? I hope not, because if there is, then we have a problem.

17 hours ago, jjpdn said:

what, how else would it work? Somehow a stagger overpowers a shockwave that sends you flying? Of course everyone who is NOT hit by the shockwave will get staggered, while the rest get sent flying!

Guys, im just speachless, im sorry... I have no idea how an enemy would get staggered(time period, not adressed) if it is not under the effects of the ability...

Everything outside the shockwave's radius(which is a variable that you did not even adress might i add) will get staggered... across the whole map... ability desigh 101... 2016...

And those that are in the wave's radius will fly off into space... actually that might be visually pleasing to watch, i mean seriously, imagine an ally surrounded by say, 20 enemies and next thing you know they get knocked the f**k back, into the air, for about 30, or so meters flight time, it would be hilarious to watch, am i rite guys?

17 hours ago, jjpdn said:

No. Its not something that belongs in a healer frame. It belongs to Trinity, "the beacon of hope", the savior who raises you when you fall.

So you want to change Trinity's role from ''healer'' to ''dont let your ally trip over''... If i wanted to have someone in my team that would ''rise me when i fall'' i wouldn't take your broken trinity, i will take a valk, or an invis loki, pretty much anything that would actually get me back up when im downed...

Also, this 'beacon of hope' can be alot of things, like a tank, or a healer, or a nuker... so long as they carry-your-team-like-a-princess...

18 hours ago, jjpdn said:

Her first two should be team sustain, third should be self buff and fourth should be a saving button. Its just... well, logical. I dunno how though. 

But her 4th IS a saving button, you just dont want to realise it. Like i've already told you... Warframe is not like ''those other games''. There is nothing wrong with its heal aspect.

[TheDelighted]

On 12/6/2016 at 9:43 PM, jjpdn said:

I see you haven't played Trinity much. She can solo easy. After all, dmg is from weapons. Need CC? Torid, or just Tonkor them. 

And she is' not getting hatred. She needs balance.

Someone has to find a point between powerful and interesting to play. I'm trying my hardest, but I know I'm not the one. What's your guys idea anyways? Though, most of you guys like buttom spam Lobster as she is now. 

Infinite repeated button mash is NOT fun after the first week.

I didn't say she can't solo, I said her true power shines at multiplayer missions, and thus the support role tag. Just because weapons' damage is an issue it doesn't mean that warframes should be hit about it, it's like saying since excalibur has a lot of damage in his kit he should be nerfed to compensate for the weapons' damage.
Warframe is a fast-paced shooter with enemies that can one-shot you, and to top it all up enemy scaling is horrible. Trinity has the only heal in the game that can actually help in difficult situations, without feeling lacklaster like Oberon's, and feels fine with how the game advances. 

Yes someone does have to find a point between powerful and interesting, but having a slow paced ability in a fast paced game is not fun nor powerful. In my opinion all "wave-like" abilities don't fit warframe, with the exception of maybe nova, because they feel slow. If DE wants so desperately to change trinity I would suggest a total rework in her kit. I would keep her current healing-energy giving power but divide it in her kit. For example 

Passive: each time trinity uses an ability she restores 25% health and shield to allies, each ability having an X second cooldown for healing.
1 : Void well, trinity creates a well of void energy, allies have increased shield regeneration, and slightly increased stats. Can put only one well of this kind. Affected by duration.
2 : Energy well, creates a well, pulses out energy duration affects this ability the same it affects now.
3 : Link, nearby allies take less damage based on how many enemies are linked to trinity, 
4 : Renewal, Trinity becomes invulnerable for a few seconds sending out waves that restore 25%  health to downed allies and instantly restoring shields in the 1st pulse, with each pulse shield restore is reduced by 25% up to 75% reduction.

There, with these suggestions trinity's heal remains the same but she has to push all of her buttons to restore her allies' health and shield. Furthermore she no longer does any damage with her abilities and keeps her identity as a fast paced healer. Also this kit can be versatile just like current trinity. For example she could play range with 20% duration and have her energy build ready. She could play maxed duration and be more of a defensive warframe. She could play strength and her wells could give more power. 
 

Edited June 13, 2016 by TheDelighted

[kleerr2]

4 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

Warframe is a fast-paced shooter with enemies that can one-shot you, and to top it all up enemy scaling is horrible.

 

4 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

Passive: each time trinity uses an ability she restores 25% health and shield to allies, each ability having an X second cooldown for healing.
1 : Void well, trinity creates a well of void energy, allies have increased shield regeneration, and slightly increased stats. Can put only one well of this kind. Affected by duration.
2 : Energy well, creates a well, pulses out energy duration affects this ability the same it affects now.
3 : Link, nearby allies take less damage based on how many enemies are linked to trinity, 
4 : Renewal, Trinity becomes invulnerable for a few seconds sending out waves that restore 25%  health to downed allies and instantly restoring shields in the 1st pulse, with each pulse shield restore is reduced by 25% up to 75% reduction.

There, with these suggestions trinity's heal remains the same but she has to push all of her buttons to restore her allies' health and shield. Furthermore she no longer does any damage with her abilities and keeps her identity as a fast paced healer. Also this kit can be versatile just like current trinity. For example she could play range with 20% duration and have her energy build ready. She could play maxed duration and be more of a defensive warframe. She could play strength and her wells could give more power. 
 

So you are aware of the situation, and yet, you think that 25% hp/shield per ability cast will save anyone at all, at the point where you are getting insta-gibbed, when in reality the current bless cannot, if the dmg surpasses it's DR...

Now, if the enemy scaling gets adressed, or Link gives a high DR for both Trin and party, might debate further, but if not... I think it is going to make Trin even worse for high level play, but will steamroll the low-mid levels, which should not be the actual goal.

If you stop for a second, and think, you will realise that only her 1st ability needs adressing, as the other 3 are more, or less, in line. Healing your allies should not be a gimmick... This ''you need to push all of teh buttons to heal'' is absurd... and what skill are you going to push more than once, since your proposed 4 abilities all have a design of 'cannot recast until duration is over', what are you even going to spam to heal?!

And let's not push it, with the 'on click' invul... Ok? That was the very reason De removed Bless DR's Risk = Reward function...

[TheDelighted]

6 hours ago, kleerr2 said:

 

So you are aware of the situation, and yet, you think that 25% hp/shield per ability cast will save anyone at all, at the point where you are getting insta-gibbed, when in reality the current bless cannot, if the dmg surpasses it's DR...

Now, if the enemy scaling gets adressed, or Link gives a high DR for both Trin and party, might debate further, but if not... I think it is going to make Trin even worse for high level play, but will steamroll the low-mid levels, which should not be the actual goal.

If you stop for a second, and think, you will realise that only her 1st ability needs adressing, as the other 3 are more, or less, in line. Healing your allies should not be a gimmick... This ''you need to push all of teh buttons to heal'' is absurd... and what skill are you going to push more than once, since your proposed 4 abilities all have a design of 'cannot recast until duration is over', what are you even going to spam to heal?!

And let's not push it, with the 'on click' invul... Ok? That was the very reason De removed Bless DR's Risk = Reward function...

Your suggested ideas take away her ult healing, only leaving her well of life for heal. Now, 25% healing won't do much alone, but you didn't take in consideration the rest of her kit, damage reduction and increased stats give a lot of time for trinity to heal her allies. My suggested trinity requires what I would call coordination and thinking rather a press of a button. I don't even know what you want, you pretty much negated yourself with that reply. You don't want trinity to have instant big heal, but at the same time you agree that scaling is an issue and healing should exist at high values. 
Additionally, the numbers aren't final and there should be no debate over them, number tweaking is DE's job.
Her 4th ability renders her incapable for a few seconds just like mending tides. If she is not capable of combat she shouldn't be taking damage. 

 

[kleerr2]

3 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

Your suggested ideas take away her ult healing, only leaving her well of life for heal.

I don't even know what you want, you pretty much negated yourself with that reply. You don't want trinity to have instant big heal, but at the same time you agree that scaling is an issue and healing should exist at high values.

I find what you are saying here, very humorous, do you know why?! Because you are not even trying to misinterpret what i say and make a strawman... you are just blatantly fabricating lies to refute my criticism... Just so you know, fabricating lies and circular logic, to refute constructive criticism left you at rock bottom... good job!

Never have i sugested any idea to take away her ult healing, to leave her with just WoL for healing. The one that did that was you. So you have now shown hypocrisy aswell... whats next? Ad hominem attacks?

I stated that i have no problem with Bless's heal function, in any way, infact i am refuting your proposals to have it changed. What i don't want, is Trinity's kit to be changed further for the worse...

4 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

My suggested trinity requires what I would call coordination and thinking rather a press of a button.

Is that so? Let us review it again:

''1 : Void well, trinity creates a well of void energy, allies have increased shield regeneration, and slightly increased stats. Can put only one well of this kind. Affected by duration.''

There is no necessary coordination with your team as to when to use your skill, to make it more effective, nor is there any kind of necessary precision thinking involved in the skill's usage. It is just a single button press...

''2 : Energy well, creates a well, pulses out energy duration affects this ability the same it affects now.''

Again. There is no necessary coordination with your team as to when to use your skill, to make it more effective, nor is there any kind of necessary precision thinking involved in the skill's usage. It is just a single button press...

''3 : Link, nearby allies take less damage based on how many enemies are linked to trinity''

Very mild coordination, in the sense of 'gather around the fire to stay warm', which does not need to actually be coordinated per say. there is no kind of necessary precision thinking involved in the skill's usage other than 'stay in range', again very mildly. It is just a single button press...

''4 : Renewal, Trinity becomes invulnerable for a few seconds sending out waves that restore 25%  health to downed allies and instantly restoring shields in the 1st pulse, with each pulse shield restore is reduced by 25% up to 75% reduction.''

There is no coordination, or thinking involved in invul time periods for self. Health cannot be given to downed allies, you can either revive, or increase bleedout time. The shield restore is pointless in high lvls and is very mild in terms of both coordination and thinking, you see you got no shields you pop the button. It is just a single button press...

This needs no more explanation than given, at this time. I hope you can make your own conclusion of this coordination/thinking/buttonpress...

4 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

Additionally, the numbers aren't final and there should be no debate over them, number tweaking is DE's job.

It is in your favor to sort out the little details, so that the viewer can have a better picture of the rework'd ability you propose, BUTT by all means do as you wish...

4 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

Her 4th ability renders her incapable for a few seconds just like mending tides. If she is not capable of combat she shouldn't be taking damage.

That would be the worst ''Ultimate'' ability in the whole game, period. And who the f**k told you that Trinity is not capable of ''combat''?! Even in your proposed rework she still will be... ffs...

[Tsukinoki]

On 6/10/2016 at 10:33 PM, jjpdn said:

What Blessing instead does is:

-makes every ally that takes non-self inflicted fatal or heavy damage within 1 second after cast send out a shockwave. Shockwave ragdolls all enemies hit by it, but deals no damage (range of wave is affected by power range). Also destroys all enemy projectiles in range and missiles locked on him. 

-Fatal damage is ignored

-staggers any enemy that was targeting that ally (affected by power duration).

-one of the toughest enemies near the ally is transformed into a Well of Life (unaffected by power range), but doesn't gain health 10x (unlike Trinity's first ability). This enemy takes 100% more damage too. (max heal and duration is affected by power strength and duration)

-*NEW* empowers ally with 300% damage (on top of any other buff, multiplicately) for the next X seconds, same as the duration of the edited Well of Life 

-ability renamed to Reversal of Fate, Bastion of Hope (cough XD ), or Panic Button. 

Technicalities:

Not recastable for each ally until their Well of Lifed enemy ends. However, you can still cast it on the rest of allies. Auto-targets. 

Stagger overrides any enemy animation, unlike normal stuns. 

Instant cast

Heavy damage: more than 30% health removed per second (or something like this)

Few questions and criticisms:
-How long does the "Fatal damage is ignored" last?
Is it just in that one second meaning that it would be useless against enemies such as bombards launching missiles outside of the rag-doll and projectile/missile destroying range?
Is it longer so that it can protect against enemies that can't be ragdolled?  For example Stalker.  Currently blessing can at least heal the Stalkers target (he'll dispel the DR buff).  With your idea what would happen?  He would hit the person in melee and trigger the shock wave and then immediately hit the person again because he can't be ragdolled/staggered and then kill the target instead of providing him with at least a small chance to live through being healed.
This needs to have some duration to it so that an affected person at least has a chance to take advantage of the healing instead of seeing the shock wave and then watching any unit at all walk around the corner and then shoot him and kill him before he even has a chance to use the effects that the ultimate grants.
What about status procs (toxic, slash, or burn) that deal damage over time?  What if those are the cause of "fatal/heavy damage"?  Will it save that person from one single tick of that damage only to have them die the very next time the damage ticks?  Or will I be expected to hit 4 three to four more times (and use 300 to 400 more energy) to allow a single ally to survive a single bad DoT proc?  Or will it not protect them at all which completely removes from the game the only healing ability that can protect against DoT procs in a clutch situation?

-How big is the staggering area?  And what counts as "targeting" an ally?
Is it infinite range with LoS applied?  Does it have a secondary radius?  How can you determine "targeting" an ally and what time window does that have as enemies can go from "Attacking this decoy" which then dies just a split second before the effect is triggered to "shooting at tenno" without any time in between which renders this stagger so unreliable as to never be noticeable outside of solo missions where they can only have one target (and even then in a fully alerted tile I've gotten stealth kills with non-silenced weapons on enemies looking directly at me meaning that those enemies weren't targeting me).

-How do you determine "toughest" enemy?  Highest total health?  Highest current health?  Most damaging? Each of those things can make a situation behave very differently
And I'm assuming that the target wouldn't be ragdolled/staggered like the other enemies in range.  And I'm also assuming that it has the same range as the ragdoll.

-Does the 300% damage boost only ocur if the ally is healed? I would assume so to avoid ability spam as you put it.

Basically I see your rework boiling down to "Hit 4 and use 100 energy in a roulette attempt to save one ally!  And then if multiple allies are in the same boat you had best mash the crap out of 4 until you run out of energy in the vain hope that you catch all of them before your energy or plates run out!"
With such a strict timing of one second (which is no where near enough in a hoard based shooter like this) its petty much a gamble of 100 energy with very very little chance it will pay off unless you are fighting enemies that can oneshot you in which case it will pay off as much as you can hit 4 and afford the cost which forces ability spam if you actually want it to work.
Further it requires you to babysit and watch and hope that you are psychic enough to predict when the enemies will attack hard enough to kill an ally.  Instead of playing the game and killing enemies you instead are forced to become the shadow of all of your allies and spend all of your time watching them and hope that you can preemptively hit 4 and not waste 100 energy on a pure gamble that in most cases won't pay out.
There is a reason that no other ability in the game has anywhere near as strict a casting time and effect limit as 1 second and is a 100% pure gamble (except for the territory where enemies can and will oneshot you where it becomes a 100% guarantee that it'll work) of whether you'll save someone or burn 100 energy and do nothing, or only save 1 out of the 3 people you need to save.

If the "protection from fatal damage" was instead upped to a bare minimum of 3-5 seconds (affected by duration mods and non-recastable during that duration, and possibly not recastable for a short duration afterwords similarly to Radial Blind) then it could be useful to preemptively protect your allies as well as save them in clutch situations.
But with a one second duration that is unmodifiable this skill becomes too cumbersome and niche to ever see use outside of theorycrafting.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Tsukinoki
Fixed typos

[TheDelighted]

1 hour ago, kleerr2 said:

I find what you are saying here, very humorous, do you know why?! Because you are not even trying to misinterpret what i say and make a strawman... you are just blatantly fabricating lies to refute my criticism... Just so you know, fabricating lies and circular logic, to refute constructive criticism left you at rock bottom... good job!

Never have i sugested any idea to take away her ult healing, to leave her with just WoL for healing. The one that did that was you. So you have now shown hypocrisy aswell... whats next? Ad hominem attacks?

I stated that i have no problem with Bless's heal function, in any way, infact i am refuting your proposals to have it changed. What i don't want, is Trinity's kit to be changed further for the worse...

Is that so? Let us review it again:

''1 : Void well, trinity creates a well of void energy, allies have increased shield regeneration, and slightly increased stats. Can put only one well of this kind. Affected by duration.''

There is no necessary coordination with your team as to when to use your skill, to make it more effective, nor is there any kind of necessary precision thinking involved in the skill's usage. It is just a single button press...

''2 : Energy well, creates a well, pulses out energy duration affects this ability the same it affects now.''

Again. There is no necessary coordination with your team as to when to use your skill, to make it more effective, nor is there any kind of necessary precision thinking involved in the skill's usage. It is just a single button press...

''3 : Link, nearby allies take less damage based on how many enemies are linked to trinity''

Very mild coordination, in the sense of 'gather around the fire to stay warm', which does not need to actually be coordinated per say. there is no kind of necessary precision thinking involved in the skill's usage other than 'stay in range', again very mildly. It is just a single button press...

''4 : Renewal, Trinity becomes invulnerable for a few seconds sending out waves that restore 25%  health to downed allies and instantly restoring shields in the 1st pulse, with each pulse shield restore is reduced by 25% up to 75% reduction.''

There is no coordination, or thinking involved in invul time periods for self. Health cannot be given to downed allies, you can either revive, or increase bleedout time. The shield restore is pointless in high lvls and is very mild in terms of both coordination and thinking, you see you got no shields you pop the button. It is just a single button press...

This needs no more explanation than given, at this time. I hope you can make your own conclusion of this coordination/thinking/buttonpress...

It is in your favor to sort out the little details, so that the viewer can have a better picture of the rework'd ability you propose, BUTT by all means do as you wish...

That would be the worst ''Ultimate'' ability in the whole game, period. And who the f**k told you that Trinity is not capable of ''combat''?! Even in your proposed rework she still will be... ffs...

Firstly I want to apologize for that, I misinterpreted you for another person. Secondly co ordination is there. Having to know where and when to put these wells require coordination among teammates and Trinity as well as she has to decide when to heal using her passive. My proposed ultimate makes it like focus abilities, in focus you can't attack enemies. Numbers are a facade, never in any suggestion ever made by me have I had true numbers. They give a false impression of the proposed ability. Since it seems you have started to become a furious ball of rage and started personal attacks in a more frequent way I withdraw myself from this debate. There can't be any debate over personal biased opinions, and not open mindness to new changes.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

On 6/11/2016 at 9:25 PM, jjpdn said:

I actually don't remember any popular video games with such a broken heal ability. If you have an example, plz give it. 

Halo? Mass Effect? Legend of Zelda? No infinitely spammable insta full heal there.

Only popping in to mention D.C. Universe Online (DCUO)

Sorcery used to have a God-Mode heal and damage (when transmutation could 1shot just about any enemy or boss and provided entire team with Full health + stacked with healing over time)

Nature healing was soo effective players could solo heal, at the time: hard, raids while in Wolf (DPS) form.

As for Trinity's Blessing: I do agree that Blessing was way too good for far too long.

-The infinite range instant heal was strong enough, but it also had Damage Reduction that could exceed normal damage reduction cap

 

I really thought Blessing was going to see some Renewal-type changes like: Healing over distance causing energy-drain 

Possibly also just limiting Damage Reduction to 75% cap but still allowing Self-harm builds (Since the DR cap would still promote a need for health and Shields  to be most effective)

Some people seem to forget that Damage Reduction unlike Armor can be applied to strengthen Shields thus synergizing with Over-shields. 

People would have complained, becuase something was changed. (People will also complain when something goes unchanged- well if Panthera gets a Buff, I'm not sure who would complain that Panthera was not left alone....lol)

[kleerr2]

2 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

Secondly co ordination is there. Having to know where and when to put these wells require coordination among teammates and Trinity as well as she has to decide when to heal using her passive.

Nope, there is neither coordination, or thinking involved. If there is it is in very mild quantities. You are going to use all of the skills as soon as possible and keep your fingers crossed that you heal an ally that needs it. I mean look at your proposed ability reworks, there is literally no incentive not to have them all active as much as possible, as such this ''you need to think before you act'' is next to nonexistent...

2 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

Numbers are a facade, never in any suggestion ever made by me have I had true numbers. They give a false impression of the proposed ability.

No, they give the reader a better understanding of the ability's functioning as a whole. Adding clarity is in your best interest, you know...

2 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

Since it seems you have started to become a furious ball of rage and started personal attacks

WHAT?!

Oh i get it... so, since i do not agree with your viewpoint and i can actually argumant my refutal to your proposals, i am being a 'ball of rage' and am doing ad hominem attacks, am I?!

Want to present some evidence on that?! It is not my fault that you cannot argument yourself, and making it seem as if you are a victim is not going to help you... at all...

so, care to quote where i insulted you directly in a specific matter? Because the only thing i have done so far, in this thread in general is making constructive feedback(mostly)... Now, if you don't want any constructive criticism from me, by all means say so... don't go acting like some victim...

2 hours ago, TheDelighted said:

There can't be any debate over personal biased opinions, and not open mindness to new changes.

I am being more than enough open minded on this, giving constructive criticism(you can argue that it is a poor one, but im trying...) is proof of that...