Overpowered players

[DatDarkOne]

3 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

The Dex Sybaris has an effectively 7 round mag, and bows take time to draw, aim and fire. Time that can be spent on other weapons pew pewing away to their heart's content. They are not the same thing. 

You are wrong on all of those points.  Dex Sybaris has a 14 round mag, and it's reload is so fast as to not even matter.  Bows can be fired as soon as you pull the trigger/hit the button.  It only takes time when you charge them.  If you aren't aiming with any weapon, then what are you doing with it? 

 

3 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Again, just because something is more OP doesn't make something else not OP at all. Less OP is still OP. 

Nothing is OP.  But if you feel it so, then don't use it.  If you are going to try to list the drawbacks of the other weapons, then also be fair to the ones you originally listed as OP.  The Boltor P and Soma I can't even consider as being OP because they lack accuracy when doing full auto.  I don't think the Tonkor is OP.  I just think it's a weapon that requires no skill.  That is why I don't use it.  I'm not trying to say the Tonkor needs to be nerfed or removed from the game.  I don't like it, so I just don't use it.  Look at that.  No one else is effected by my decision. 

[Chipputer]

7 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Dex Sybaris has a 14 round mag

It effectively only has a 7 round magazine due to the way it fires. Don't play a semantics game.

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Bows can be fired as soon as you pull the trigger/hit the button

Did you seriously just say this? Yes they can be, but you're getting a fraction of their damage potential out of them if you're doing this.

8 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

If you aren't aiming with any weapon, then what are you doing with it? 

Spamming the Synoid Simulor, probably.

9 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Nothing is OP.  But if you feel it so, then don't use it. 

This is not an argument. Something being an issue doesn't stop being an issue if you ignore it.

9 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

The Boltor P and Soma I can't even consider as being OP because they lack accuracy when doing full auto

>Soma
>Inaccurate

10 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I don't think the Tonkor is OP.  I just think it's a weapon that requires no skill. 

A weapon that you barely have to aim that can do the damage of your favorite Bow's headshot on a single enemy to an entire group in a fraction of a second. Twice before it has to reload. A weapon more effective than literally every other weapon in the game, except in super early areas. A weapon that, even if you miss, can still kill enemies because it explodes even if you don't hit anything.

The data literally shows it being far and beyond the best choice, with only the Synoid Simulor even comparing to it. But you keep telling yourself it's not overpowered.

[Oishii]

Naramon should be added to the OP list =/, I kind of want a refund in a different school as it makes the game kind of boring.

It's a really bad band aid made to aid melee better.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Oishii

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

40 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You are wrong on all of those points.  Dex Sybaris has a 14 round mag, and it's reload is so fast as to not even matter.  Bows can be fired as soon as you pull the trigger/hit the button.  It only takes time when you charge them.  If you aren't aiming with any weapon, then what are you doing with it? 

 

Nothing is OP.  But if you feel it so, then don't use it.  If you are going to try to list the drawbacks of the other weapons, then also be fair to the ones you originally listed as OP.  The Boltor P and Soma I can't even consider as being OP because they lack accuracy when doing full auto.  I don't think the Tonkor is OP.  I just think it's a weapon that requires no skill.  That is why I don't use it.  I'm not trying to say the Tonkor needs to be nerfed or removed from the game.  I don't like it, so I just don't use it.  Look at that.  No one else is effected by my decision. 

You can literally make the Soma almost a sniper by lowering its RoF

[TheBrsrkr]

1 hour ago, Slaviar said:

Pew pewing without paying attention will ony make you lose ammo. 

Very little guns in general allow you to do anything if you're not paying attention. 

1 hour ago, Slaviar said:

And I can do the same with one shot from Vay Hek. Or twice that much with one shot from Tigris. Or one headshot from properly modded sniper rifle. By the time mobs become real tough Soma's ammo reserve won't matter. Or simply at 3rd sortie with Eximus stronghold or augmented armor.

Have you been paying attention? 

3 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

 Again, just because something is more OP doesn't make something else not OP at all. Less OP is still OP. 

This is my entire point. If 200 of something  is too much, and you have 5000, it doesn't change the fact that 200 is too much. Of course more overpowered weapons would be more pressing issues, but that doesn't mean the old issues aren't still there. 

 

1 hour ago, Slaviar said:

Also, unless my calculations are wrong lvl 80 Bombard has over 10x that much EHP (>28k health and >5k armor). Now you'll go with "but CP" but auras and their usefulness is different subject.

Even without CP, they perform reasonably well at that level, where 80% of weapons would be pretty much useless. All while  being objectively better than those weapons having very little in the way of drawbacks. 

 

17 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

You are wrong on all of those points.  Dex Sybaris has a 14 round mag, and it's reload is so fast as to not even matter. 

...... That it fires in a 2 shot burst giving you..... 7 effective shots per magazine. Like I said. There's also the forced stop between shots, aiming for headshot crits, and its general effectiveness depending on how fast you pick your targets, I. E. Skill. 

 

21 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Bows can be fired as soon as you pull the trigger/hit the button.  It only takes time when you charge them.  

If you don't fully charge it, both the damage and punch through are significantly decreased, which was your entire point for them being OP I assume. Either way, they're still mostly single/selective target weapons. 

 

23 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

 If you aren't aiming with any weapon, then what are you doing with it? 

Pointing something in the general direction of an enemy and pulling the trigger isn't the same as aiming. 

25 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

Nothing is OP.  But if you feel it so, then don't use it.  

I don't. That's not the issue. These things being OP (and they are) affect the entire game. There's no magic mode where I don't get affected by the things put in place to normalize OP weapons and frames. We all get the same patch. 

 

29 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

  If you are going to try to list the drawbacks of the other weapons, then also be fair to the ones you originally listed as OP.  The Boltor P and Soma I can't even consider as being OP because they lack accuracy when doing full auto. 

The Boltor had standard accuracy at full auto, and no recoil. The Soma doesn't have that much recoil, but it is significant. The Soma has ammo economy issues on really long matches, entirely countered by pizzas, and a 3 second reload, counteracted by its 200 round clip.  The Boltor..... Doesn't have crit, I guess? Average ammo economy, because pickups aren't really that rare and it does do a crap load of bang for its buck. Reload time is good. Not great, but good. None of this justifies what they do. 

 

37 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

  I don't think the Tonkor is OP.  I just think it's a weapon that requires no skill.  That is why I don't use it.  I'm not trying to say the Tonkor needs to be nerfed or removed from the game.  I don't like it, so I just don't use it.  Look at that.  No one else is effected by my decision. 

I like the Tonkor. I use it. It's still overpowered. It still needs to be nerfed, because an MR5 weapon with more than or equal damage to the most damaging guns  in the game that have to ramp up to their full potential, that does it in the largest base launcher AoE, with the most reserve ammo of any launcher, with the fastest reload to clip ratio, that you don't even have to hit to kill potentially infinity but more like 6 enemies, and has not only no self damage but an aim guide is not okay. Everyone is affected by this because everyone plays the same game and everyone has to fight the same enemies. These enemies have to be built to withstand our best. Our best is now the Tonkor. Either the Tonkor gets brought down, or enemies, other weapons and frames get brought up, achieving the same result.  You can guess which one I want. 

[DatDarkOne]

2 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

You can guess which one I want.

To mess up the game for possibly everyone else except you?  That might not be what you're thinking, but that would be the end result.  I'm all for just waiting on DE to finish what they've started with the recent reworks. 

[TheBrsrkr]

14 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

To mess up the game for possibly everyone else except you?  That might not be what you're thinking, but that would be the end result. 

Projection, thy name is Dark One. 

Seriously though, this is getting old. You are the ones demanding that everyone who doesn't like the way you play to leave. You're the ones deciding that your fun is more important than not only the fun of other players, but the very development of the content we all play. You're the ones that think that DE could just come up with content in a matter of days and just tinker a little with some code and new content just appears, waiting to be utterly trivialized by the weapons you advocate for. Everywhere players complain about the enemies and fake challenges put in place to justify these weapons existing. Yet somehow we're the ones messing up the game. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by TheBrsrkr

[DatDarkOne]

1 minute ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Seriously though, this is getting old.

It really is. 

3 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

You are the ones demanding that everyone who doesn't like the way you play to leave. You're the ones deciding that your fun is more important than not only the fun of other players, but the very development of the content we all play. You're the ones that think that DE could just come up with content in a matter of days and just tinker a little with some code and new content just appears, waiting to be utterly trivialized by the weapons you advocate for.

Right back at you.  I haven't demanded anything.  I haven't once said anything close anyone sacrificing their fun to appease me.  I'm more realistic than that.  The only thing that I've ever advocated was/is that everyone's enjoyment be considered when requesting Nerfs.  Projection, don't project onto me the issues you have with some others. 

I don't consider anything in this game to be OP when it was designed for us to be OP in the first place.  This has been said multiple times by DE in various Devstreams and other media.  Think about that for a few seconds and let it simmer.  A lot of things that players complain about elsewhere can be avoided or mitigated by using the various options that are already in the game.  The only thing that is not in the players control is how fast enemies scale.  Which is being worked on. 

I hope you continue to enjoy the game.  I'm going to go in now and get as many stealth kills and headshots as I can.  :D

[hanross]

On 6/15/2016 at 3:37 PM, Alma_Elma said:

I'd like you to complete 3 sorties with your following criteria. If you can't, do a T4 survival run for 60 minutes (40 if you're gonna do it solo).

1. No damage boost mods on your weapons. Physical or critical. Multishot can be included, but you can't mount ammunition mods to simulate your ideal "double ammunition" idea. Because we can't simulate your elemental idea; you're allowed to use LV2 elemental mods or dual stat elemental mods as a substitute.

2. No efficiency mods or Trinities in your group. Get other frames do to your healing or use life strike. And they must be meeting the same criteria as above.

3.Video you and your squad trying to complete the challenge I've laid out.

4. If you manage to win, I'll take your ideas seriously. Otherwise, have fun getting wrecked by the Eximi by the 20 minute mark/second sortie because of this game's unholy scaling system and see why a certain level of cheese is needed in this game to progress.

Totally agree with u

[BOLDRapture]

On 6/20/2016 at 4:33 PM, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Those "top tier" builds could still wipe the floor with enemies provided their users had "top tier" skills to match. But it's true that you would be in for a rough ride, if you failed to master the game mechanics in those 2000+ hours of gameplay.

What you want is everyone to be brought down your skill level which is unrealistic. This honestly should not even be a discussion. From the little bit i can piece together from what you have posted you have barely scratched the surface for what the game has to offer. Now i love for people to enjoy the game but saying "hey this game is cool but you know how everyone else is better than me, id rather everyone be brought to my level so that i can believe that i am on par with everyone else". This whole argument is like if someone who only just started building a house, realizes that it is going to be difficult, and begins to complain that we should all live in boxes. You dont just want to nerf one frame or one weapon you want to effectively change the entire game, after taking everyone who plays this game and throwing their hard work into a nerf update, do you honestly think people will just pretend nothing happened. They would lose a great deal of players just from that. This game is good, i dont think we need to reinvent the wheel when nothing is broken. Finally that one part about certain frames melting level 100s. I feel like you havent played too much against level 100s because they arent a walk in the park. In void once you get to level 100s you mostly only deal with eximi (spoiler alert arent easy to kill) Most of the frames you mentioned are squishy too. Meaning they can deal damage but can easily get one hit at those levels. Its all about developing a build for your frame and playing to get better. Rome wasnt built in a day, hard work makes you better not changing the game for the benefit of the 1% of players trying to figure out what a rubedo is without looking at the wiki. 

[Chipputer]

4 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I don't consider anything in this game to be OP when it was designed for us to be OP in the first place.  This has been said multiple times by DE in various Devstreams and other media.  Think about that for a few seconds and let it simmer. 

Okay. I did. I let it simmer and now the sauce is thickening as I'm letting it stand-- off the heat. I took a taste and this is what it tasted like:

"We want the players to feel overpowered compared to the enemies," does not mean they want weaponry in the game that trivializes content. We already have the capability to completely mind control entire groups of enemies, remove their weapons, teleport around, become completely invisible, become completely invincible, freeze enemies in place, reduce their ability to move to a snail's pace, force them into an entire other plane of existence, turn ourselves into a puddle and literally slowly drown them to death, amongst many other things.

Nerfing things like the Tonkor are not going to do anything to harm the idea that the players are overpowered in comparison to the enemies.

Beyond that, the philosophy that you're stating, in the manner that you're stating it, cannot exist when we have bosses that stand a chance against us. If we're supposed to be OP and nothing in the game is truly OP because of that, why is there anything that can even attempt to put us down with any level of success? Let me tell you why.

There's a difference between winning every match with next to no contest and engaging gameplay. You, and others who think like you, need to start understanding this. It gets quite old when, in the past, there have been well reasoned, well researched, topics that were supported by multiple people giving video and statistical evidence to prove why certain weapons were tuned way above the level they should be only to still have people go around saying, "yeah well just don't use it and get out of the public queue if you don't like it."

[DatDarkOne]

And you ignored the other part of my post that concerned enemy scaling.  It also gets quite old when some people try to dictate how I should be able to play in the game.  You and others like you need to start understanding that.  Yes it does get quite old.  The only time I've agreed with nerfs is when they have been made to make things better for everyone.  Much like the recent ones. 

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

"yeah well just don't use it and get out of the public queue if you don't like it."

This is said so much because it without a doubt works, and is simple.  If you are having problems with PUGs, go solo or use friends/clan mates. Problem with PUGs solved.  If you don't like a weapon, don't use it or refer back to previous sentence.  problem solved.  In each of those cases, a problem is resolved without effecting anyone else but you.  This doesn't resolve the enemy scaling which is being worked on as I previously mentioned.  It also doesn't resolve a glitch, bug or a bad game mechanic in the game. 

If you can't see the discussion from both sides, then let's just agree to disagree. 

Edited June 22, 2016 by DatDarkOne
correction

[-CM-Emptiness]

22 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

Right back at you. The only difference is that the current elitism is based on sinking countless hours into grinding to get the cores and ducats to buy and max all mods.

Unlike you, I don't nor have I ever hinted about a divide between veterans and new players. Look up the definition before you go flinging back concepts you don't comprehend. Whether or not the current community 'elitism' is based on hours spent or not, we fortunately have loopholes in place to bypass it i.e. Draco, Platinum. Your notion of elitism points way beyond what we have now. Its a world where only the most skillful can do reasonable damage, the rest do mediocre at best. (Players also have differing skill limits. Should I also mention, how it is YOU who prefers Warframe be converted into Call of Duty skill-based game-play.)

A couple of individuals have also tried to point our your errors and suggest more considerate + still viable alternatives, but you stand behind a steel wall. If you don't listen to the other side of the community, your 'suggestions' will only, or should I say, have already become selfish demands.

22 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

 Why do you bother with leveling all the mods and gear if not for the fact that you'll be able do more: damage, have more EHP, more powerfull abilities,... Saying the end result is not the motivation in a statistics oriented game is pretty silly.

So obtaining Tonkor at a low MR means you've attained the optimal level of progression that this game has to offer... Since that is what your notion of statistical value implies. While your at it, look up what progress means before you discuss any further.

22 hours ago, Fuzzy-Bunny said:

All the "meta" weapons basically. Tonkor, Synoid simulor, Vaykor Hek, Sancti Tigris, Boltor prime, Soma prime, and so on. But my point from the begging was that these weapons being overpowered was mostly the fault of weapon mods that end up with insane multipliers. The mods only exacerbate the inherent power creep problem.

...My point was that your point doesn't solve anything. Mods exacerbate the problem with 'meta' weapons, but they affect ALL the rest of the weapon selection. The benchmark from which to balance lies with the majority of weapons in-between Tonkor and say, MK1 Gear. Solve the outliers first. Otherwise you're merely shifting the already disproportionate weapon collection to a lower range of values. If Tonkor becomes balanced, the majority won't be. 

[Slaviar]

8 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Very little guns in general allow you to do anything if you're not paying attention. 

You're contradicting yourself.

9 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

This is my entire point. If 200 of something  is too much, and you have 5000, it doesn't change the fact that 200 is too much. Of course more overpowered weapons would be more pressing issues, but that doesn't mean the old issues aren't still there. 

Therefore, by your definition everything with over 15k dps is overpowered.

9 hours ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Even without CP, they perform reasonably well at that level, where 80% of weapons would be pretty much useless. All while  being objectively better than those weapons having very little in the way of drawbacks. 

Radiation modded Soma Prime with 25k dps will take half of its magazine to kill lvl 80 Bombard. So no, it's not performing reasonably well and it will eat ammo like crazy

[TheBrsrkr]

9 hours ago, Chipputer said:

>Soma

>Inaccurate

>greentext arrows

>outside of 4chan 

Wew lads

 

9 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

Right back at you. 

Literally no u

 

9 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

.  The only thing that I've ever advocated was/is that everyone's enjoyment be considered when requesting Nerfs.  Projection, don't project onto me the issues you have with some others. 

 

That's impossible. There will always, always be someone who wants things to stay exactly as they are. Everyone matters equally in this game, so how can you justify changing something someone doesn't like? That is why we have systems that are not affected by who likes what and who doesn't,and how it relates to the entire game, not just that person. 

9 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

I don't consider anything in this game to be OP when it was designed for us to be OP in the first place.  This has been said multiple times by DE in various Devstreams and other media.  Think about that for a few seconds and let it simmer. 

 

 

 

They also said they didn't want the game to be press 4 to win. They also said that they want us to do less damage over time. They also said that you aren't supposed to have abilities that can shut down maps with little recourse. Let that simmer for a bit. 

Did DE change their mind? Nope. You just don't understand what that means. You're supposed to feel OP against enemies. 4 Tenno vs a massive army. Not 1 Tenno vs some cardboard cutouts  he made and 3 Tenno twiddling their thumbs or running around picking up loot. Feeling OP=/= being OP. Being overpowered has consequences for both players and developers, much of which we see today. Your power should be able to shut down a room/clear a map/make enemies hit each other with sticks or whatever. Just not all day. 

9 hours ago, DatDarkOne said:

  A lot of things that players complain about elsewhere can be avoided or mitigated by using the various options that are already in the game.  The only thing that is not in the players control is how fast enemies scale.  Which is being worked on. 

What you do affects the entire game. There's no way to avoid it. We all get the same patch with the same game modes built for OP weapons and the same enemies built for OP weapons, but only one of us has the OP weapons. Forcing other players out of a public game,in a multiplayer game,  is not a problem with them, it's a problem with you. Going solo is supposed to be a choice, not a requirement. All of you solutions create more problems for the same people while those actually causing the problem can continue as they are. But that's okay, because they're having fun, right? 

36 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

You're contradicting yourself.

I don't see how getting more shots off than a bow can for the same amount of damage needed contradicts you needing to aim. There are only 2 guns in the game you don't need to aim, the Synoid Simulor and the Simulor. Some would put the Tonkor on the list. 

 

40 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Therefore, by your definition everything with over 15k dps is overpowered.

I want you to underline the part of the definition that said that. Too much is too much, no matter how much you have, be it 100 more or 1000 more. 

14 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Radiation modded Soma Prime with 25k dps will take half of its magazine to kill lvl 80 Bombard. So no, it's not performing reasonably well and it will eat ammo like crazy

Underlined the problem. The new crit mods can put it past that. Also, were you not aiming for headshots or something? That's a lot. It's also better than 80% of the weapons in the game, so yeah. 

[Prany]

I remember Vivergate. Syndicates were fresh after release and we were ready to grind the F*** out of them. But grind turned out to be massive. So what did we do? Of course we abused our unrestrained abilities and raked in insane quantities of syndicate standing. More than DE had anticipated. They limited our abilities. We moaned in response. Moaned so hard that DE relented and unrestrained our powers, increased gain of syndicate standing, allowed us our new favorite gameplay style - camping, and even apologized us. It felt good - our voices were heard, we got what we wanted and made DE our *@##$ in the process.

Next week Scorching Ospreys and Nullifiers were introduced.

[DatDarkOne]

3 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

There will always, always be someone who wants things to stay exactly as they are. Everyone matters equally in this game, so how can you justify changing something someone doesn't like?

You just contradicted most of your previous posts with this one statement.  I also haven't tried to justify changing anything, unlike what you have been doing. 

7 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

What you do affects the entire game. There's no way to avoid it.

This is a nonsense statement.  What I do when I play doesn't effect anyone.  Why, because I mostly play solo. 

9 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Forcing other players out of a public game,in a multiplayer game,  is not a problem with them, it's a problem with you.

I don't force anyone out of anything.  I choose to play solo myself.  How is me choosing to play solo a problem for you?

14 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

All of you solutions create more problems for the same people

How so?  I haven't suggested anything that I don't do myself.  If I don't want to play with randoms and/or whatever weapons they bring, then I go solo or group with friends/clan mates.  I'm not getting in anyone else's way and vice-versa.  This is especially true for Spy missions.  So, how am I creating a problem for myself? The only way I can see any of my suggestions being a problem is if you just feel that you have no choice but to be in a group with other people. 

 

Now since we've just established how the way I play doesn't effect anyone else, let's go to how your suggestions will effect me.  Almost all of your suggestions (and those of the OP) will effect me and players like me, but our methods of playing don't effect you or others at all.  Do you now see the issue I have with these suggestions of yours and OP's. 

[-CM-Emptiness]

28 minutes ago, TheBrsrkr said:

You're supposed to feel OP against enemies. 4 Tenno vs a massive army. Not 1 Tenno vs some cardboard cutouts  he made and 3 Tenno twiddling their thumbs or running around picking up loot. Feeling OP=/= being OP. Being overpowered has consequences for both players and developers, much of which we see today. Your power should be able to shut down a room/clear a map/make enemies hit each other with sticks or whatever. Just not all day.

Seriously... I'm just observing you nitpicking certain individuals for insignificant quarrels.

Let me ask you, what is your stand on all of this? Do you feel the game warrants the suggested change? How would you go about it?

You say we are meant to feel OP, but that we shouldn't be OP. The division here is severely blurred and influenced by personal bias, so I just want to know what exactly you desire regarding the issue.

[ranks21]

no one is right  in this thread and what  I get is the game should be like this or that because its like this or that in other games.. the Devs has gotten themselves in a cycle of madness listening and adapting to these suggestions..

 whats been done over the years in the form of optimization and tweaks is always a step forward. where they have totally messed up is when they express the childish syndrome and changing stuff  (nerfing/buffing/ reworking) because like the poster above me is voicing about stuff that is or was unique to the game shouldn't be so=  change because he don't like it just read his answers and so called proofs with pics and graphs etc.

whats missing in warframe now that makes it boring as fck. we can continue to bicker on who is or what is right but the fact is the nostalgic feeling and immersion is dead and U19 will make it even worse from what I have heard mentioned in the devstream..

https://youtu.be/7D6b4lPaS2I

 

I think I have said this a few times in other posts when I finally uninstall this game and think back>  "Warframe, the game that could've been".

Edited June 22, 2016 by ranks21

[Slaviar]

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I don't see how getting more shots off than a bow can for the same amount of damage needed contradicts you needing to aim. There are only 2 guns in the game you don't need to aim, the Synoid Simulor and the Simulor. Some would put the Tonkor on the list. 

 

And this way you've invalidated everything you wrote about it. If every gun needs to be used skillfully (with the exceptions of Tonkor and Synoid Simulor) what are you even arguing about?

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

I want you to underline the part of the definition that said that. Too much is too much, no matter how much you have, be it 100 more or 1000 more. 

It's other guns which are so underpowered they make Soma and Boltor look overpowered.

1 hour ago, TheBrsrkr said:

Underlined the problem. The new crit mods can put it past that. Also, were you not aiming for headshots or something? That's a lot. It's also better than 80% of the weapons in the game, so yeah. 

Bladed Rounds are decent and I use them on most critical builds. But Argon Scope, despite popular belief, isn't that good. It offers marginal advantage versus additional elemental mod and Warframe itself doesn't favor headshots because mobs' movement is erratic and they love to do "it's beta, my job is done".
And aiming for headshots or not, Soma will still use half of its ammo to kill group of high level mobs. Assuming you won't be downed in a process because it'll take you long time to defeat this group.

And please enlighten me, which weapons aren't overpowered according to you?

[Methemisk]

As you realize that the tooltip has its own problem.

If the power efficiency is 175%, then ability cost is no where near 75% reduced. That is 400% efficiency by now.

Remove this cap, and fix the tooltip, then everyone will rant about it for a while. But they'll understand.

[NanoVega]

25 minutes ago, Slaviar said:

Bladed Rounds are decent and I use them on most critical builds. But Argon Scope, despite popular belief, isn't that good. It offers marginal advantage versus additional elemental mod and Warframe itself doesn't favor headshots because mobs' movement is erratic and they love to do "it's beta, my job is done".
And aiming for headshots or not, Soma will still use half of its ammo to kill group of high level mobs. Assuming you won't be downed in a process because it'll take you long time to defeat this group.

And please enlighten me, which weapons aren't overpowered according to you?

lol, They're gonna say Burston Prime or something.

 

Beyond that, I will agree that there is a certain level of... Trivialization going on, if you look at weapons like the Buzlok, Panthera, or Harpak, which have interesting and cool ideas, but can't be used because other weapons are better. But nerfing everything else isn't the right idea, otherwise why use anything other than the Braton? Weapons need to be buffed into tiers, with higher tier weapons being harder to get to give a feeling of progression.

[Fuzzy-Bunny]

10 hours ago, BOLDRapture said:

You dont just want to nerf one frame or one weapon you want to effectively change the entire game, after taking everyone who plays this game and throwing their hard work into a nerf update, do you honestly think people will just pretend nothing happened. They would lose a great deal of players just from that. This game is good, i dont think we need to reinvent the wheel when nothing is broken. Finally that one part about certain frames melting level 100s. I feel like you havent played too much against level 100s because they arent a walk in the park. In void once you get to level 100s you mostly only deal with eximi (spoiler alert arent easy to kill) Most of the frames you mentioned are squishy too. Meaning they can deal damage but can easily get one hit at those levels. Its all about developing a build for your frame and playing to get better. Rome wasnt built in a day, hard work makes you better not changing the game for the benefit of the 1% of players trying to figure out what a rubedo is without looking at the wiki. 

Changing the game? Can newbies spam CC all day long? Can they they bullethose enemies without ever running out of ammo? Can they run through the map killing everything without ever using a weapon? No? I don't know about you, but I remember a time when I actually had to put some thought in managing my energy. My point about Level 100 and beyond isn't that they're hard or easy, but how they degenerate the gameplay. Tenno seem to be revered as some sort of demigods and yet they have to keep spamming every CC skill on hand to keep those degenerating cybernetic clones from oneshoting them. Every frame without tanking abilities can be considered as squishy against level 100 and beyond, but that is simply due to scaling. Did you even read the OP?

4 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

Unlike you, I don't nor have I ever hinted about a divide between veterans and new players. Look up the definition before you go flinging back concepts you don't comprehend. Whether or not the current community 'elitism' is based on hours spent or not, we fortunately have loopholes in place to bypass it i.e. Draco, Platinum. Your notion of elitism points way beyond what we have now. Its a world where only the most skillful can do reasonable damage, the rest do mediocre at best. (Players also have differing skill limits. Should I also mention, how it is YOU who prefers Warframe be converted into Call of Duty skill-based game-play.)

Hahaha. Are you serious? Do you honestly believe that most regular players can't hit head shots if they try? You're taking things way out of proportion.

4 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

So obtaining Tonkor at a low MR means you've attained the optimal level of progression that this game has to offer... Since that is what your notion of statistical value implies. While your at it, look up what progress means before you discuss any further.

Yes, sadly. If the aim of the player is to do endless missions to farm or draco leveling then Tonkor is pretty much a way to go right now. There's little incentive to try other "MR fodder" weapons beyond curiosity and MR benefits. Why would a player like that grind for say Latron prime and aim for headshots when he can just wipe out entire groups with Tonkor?

4 hours ago, -CM-Emptiness said:

...My point was that your point doesn't solve anything. Mods exacerbate the problem with 'meta' weapons, but they affect ALL the rest of the weapon selection. The benchmark from which to balance lies with the majority of weapons in-between Tonkor and say, MK1 Gear. Solve the outliers first. Otherwise you're merely shifting the already disproportionate weapon collection to a lower range of values. If Tonkor becomes balanced, the majority won't be. 

This was never a suggestion for countering power creep. What I suggested was to give players incentive to use all their skills instead of spamming "I win" buttons and oneshotting everything by spraying bullets in the general direction of enemies.

17 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Okay, I understand your point about enemy scaling, and I do think that adjustments need to be made. I'm looking forward to damage 3.0, too. I prefer it when enemies scale by being faster and using better tactics and abilities. It just bothers me when - in support of your position - you say things that are inaccurate. For example, I've already pointed out that some abilities scale better than weapons. It's actually not at all hard to get to the point where most weapons become next to useless on their own, no matter how they're modded. Actually, it's synergies between weapons and powers that scale the best, which is how it should be. For example, one of the best scaling combos in the game is a good weapon with Banshee's Sonar ability. Mirage's blind pairs amazingly with a fast melee weapon with good status, etc.

Ok, fair enough. Then let me ask, what is your opinion on weapon mods scaling damage over 100x times their original amount? Do you find that reasonable? Do you also find 500K EHP enemies reasonable?

17 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

It's also kinda frustrating when you accuse raids of being easy CC spam-fests and suggest that nobody can die when CC is in use. If you don't play high-level content, you really can't talk about balance at that point in the game. I understand that you hear a lot from other players and those descriptions might seem like they are enough, but they've led you to believe some things that just aren't true. Those of us who do raids and 2 hour survivals feel like you're telling us that we're wrong about what high-level content is like, and that can feel a little insulting.

I didn't say easy, I said cheesy. How are tenno supposed to feel "powerful" if they're constantly forced to spam CC to keep regular mobs from firing and oneshoting them?

17 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

That's all I'm trying to say, really. I DO like the idea of re-doing the mods and scaling to allow more build variation, I just haven't yet found a scheme that really seems to work. For one thing, we still need a sense of progression, of getting more powerful and being powerful. This is what a lot of people like about warframe, and we have to make sure that any proposed solution does a good job of preserving that.

So can you explain how Tenno feel "powerful" in "end-game" content? Do you also not like the conditional mods requiring skill to use?

[(PSN)AllEyezOnThee]

 

 

Here are some ideas of mine to start the balance of warframe (up for debate)

 

1. Hard cap enemy level to 40 (while keeping players at 30 the same). enemies at 0-10 for beginners, 10-20 for intermediate, 20-30 for advanced, and 30-40 for high end/challenging content. 40+ (at that point good luck difficulty) for endless missions so players at some point will be forced to leave or die. Enemy health/damage scaling will be linear and AI will be more difficult as level increases.
2. Readjust frames, weapons, companions to be viable for new enemy levels and level cap. Elemental mods, damage type mods will convert weapon damage into that specific type instead of a pure damage bonus. (example: 100 damage sword with 60% shocking touch mod creates 40 damage and 60 electric damage - making it still a good build for corpus).
3. Remove all pure damage mods (serration, pressure point, etc) and implement them into the weapons and pets so as the player levels - so does their damage. (The increase in damage to level goes with idea 2's statement).
4. Remove warframe ability mods intensity, streamline, stretch, and continuity and keep and expand the corrupted mods (having an advantage/disadvantage in return for a specific type of playstyle focus for players).
5. Add damage/power/movement bonuses for skillful plays/combos/teamplay.

 

This would be the start for an ideal warframe that gives players the most options, challenge, and fun.

Remember - skill and experience over meta and cheese.

[Soketsu]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)lNoctus said:

 

 

Here are some ideas of mine to start the balance of warframe (up for debate)

 

1. Hard cap enemy level to 40 (while keeping players at 30 the same). enemies at 0-10 for beginners, 10-20 for intermediate, 20-30 for advanced, and 30-40 for high end/challenging content. 40+ (at that point good luck difficulty) for endless missions so players at some point will be forced to leave or die. Enemy health/damage scaling will be linear and AI will be more difficult as level increases.
2. Readjust frames, weapons, companions to be viable for new enemy levels and level cap. Elemental mods, damage type mods will convert weapon damage into that specific type instead of a pure damage bonus. (example: 100 damage sword with 60% shocking touch mod creates 40 damage and 60 electric damage - making it still a good build for corpus).
3. Remove all pure damage mods (serration, pressure point, etc) and implement them into the weapons and pets so as the player levels - so does their damage. (The increase in damage to level goes with idea 2's statement).
4. Remove warframe ability mods intensity, streamline, stretch, and continuity and keep and expand the corrupted mods (having an advantage/disadvantage in return for a specific type of playstyle focus for players).
5. Add damage/power/movement bonuses for skillful plays/combos/teamplay.

 

This would be the start for an ideal warframe that gives players the most options, challenge, and fun.

Remember - skill and experience over meta and cheese.

skill on a pve game make me laugh so much