What's DE's rework mindset?

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, BigBlackCook said:

the shards from polarize does not make a huge or dramatic difference in damage.

Yeah, that is definitely something I've noticed. Not that they don't add dramatically to the damage, but the fact that the effect is applied really erratically.

I can cast Magnetise while the ground is littered with shards and only one or two at most are every actually picked up. It's easier to ignore the shards that are there, magnetise, and cast Polarise on the trapped enemies to force it to apply them to the damage bubble.

Even then, whether it actually applies them is often hit-or-miss.

[superbot34]

On 6/24/2016 at 3:56 AM, Roachester said:

Amazing ultimatum. This can't seriously be what people believe balancing boils down to. Either that, or you're exaggerating. Please say you're exaggerating.

If you are, then disregard the rest of this post. If not, feel free to disregard it anyway.

 

While I agree that enemy scaling needs to be addressed properly, let's pretend for a moment that the 18.13 patch never happened. Do you really think fixing the enemies would stop people from spamming Prism 24/7? Using Mag to steamroll anything that even LOOKS like it might have shields? Turning Excalibur into a bona fide mobile turret? Abusing Blessing to turn your entire team into nigh unstoppable death machines? Staying in Hysteria for literally hours on end? Looking even further back than 18.13, would it have stopped people from abusing Miasma? Peacemaker? All that other nonsense?

Of course it wouldn't have, because these were all things that turned enemies into helpless, sniveling messes with just one or two measly button presses. And that's assuming the ability didn't outright kill them first. DE has stated numerous times that they want us to feel powerful when going into missions. What they DON'T want, however, is for us to completely avoid playing their game, which is exactly what the aforementioned abilities achieved. With that in mind, they nerfed 'em. Fairly hard.

By getting rid of our ability to cheese every last bit of content, they can lay down some proper groundwork for fixing one of this game's other huge problems, which is the obvious enemy scaling.

DE's already figured out that, in order to make any headway with their game, they have to take the bad along with the good. If certain players can't manage to do the same, then who are they to say that they know what's best for Warframe?

lol i wasn't defending or bashing the reworks they just did. You should calm down. 

[LascarCapable]

They're trying to actively get rid of every kind of ability that allows one to rack up kills or clear maps way too easly or cheese some gamemodes, while giving an utility to abilities that were not used for some reason. The goal is to make players work a bit more in order to pull out a massive amount of damage while trying to make the whole skillset of a warframe useful.

The best exemple I could pull out is Saryn's rework, that massively changed how she works. Prior to her rework, most of people would build Saryn with a duration as low as possible due to Miasma actually getting a big benefit with very low duration builds. But those builds pretty much also made every other abilities almost useless. The rework gave to Saryn a lot of synergies on all of her skills, encouraging skill combos, and making all abilities useful in their own way while making players work a bit more to earn their kills.

[Birdframe_Prime]

13 minutes ago, D20 said:

The best exemple I could pull out is Saryn's rework, that massively changed how she works. Prior to her rework, most of people would build Saryn with a duration as low as possible due to Miasma actually getting a big benefit with very low duration builds. But those builds pretty much also made every other abilities almost useless. The rework gave to Saryn a lot of synergies on all of her skills, encouraging skill combos, and making all abilities useful in their own way while making players work a bit more to earn their kills.

Exactly.

Saryn used to be a nuke frame, you could pull a solid 10k damage from a Miasma every time, and the max efficiency, max strength, min duration build worked perfectly with just that one ability. It completely ruined the other three, but with Saryn's unlikely amount of armour and an easy press-4-to-nuke ability, that was all you needed to destroy most game modes on the star chart.

On the other hand, I just forma'd up enough of a build on Saryn that is... kind of obscene. I forget efficiency, put it all into strength and duration, while keeping as much range as I can. This nets me a spore build that you hit once, cast Toxic Lash, gain all your energy back in a few swings, and repeat until you have everything in the room (and the next ones) at half health, suffering from toxic procs in the high hundreds to thousands range, and then blitz everything in range with Miasma for 15k damage each. You can get higher than the old Saryn, you just have to play her differently. It's all about the Spore farming, with Molt for survivability (if you're solo I'd swap out a bit of power strength for Regenerative Molt), and making sure that nothing and nobody you're against is healthy and fully functional.

I've seen Toxic procs on some enemies in the 10k range just from the Spores alone, forget Miasma... It's such a good ability. And all because they took away the negative duration part of her that she had before.

[Roachester]

2 hours ago, superbot34 said:

lol i wasn't defending or bashing the reworks they just did. You should calm down. 

Wait, why can't I type out lengthy replies for the sake of typing lengthy replies? Why do I have to be emotional and/or salty, too?

This is an outrage, I say.

[(XBOX)KickassNinja14]

On 6/24/2016 at 2:35 AM, BigBlackCook said:

the old shield polarize is a better ability to do insane amount of damage fast. 

I don't think you get the point of the shield polarize change. Shield polarize was a scaling ability that defeats the entire point of enemy scaling as it deals damage as a percentage and not a fixed amount. It makes it hard for DE to make tougher enemies if you can kill all of them with the same amount or similar ease that is why DE removed it from the game. And the enemy scaling rework is coming soon(rebecca mentioned that in an earlier post) too but the have to change the frame first so that when the change the enemies its balanced as currently certain frames can achieve incredible things even with the broken enemy scaling,think about what would happen if it wasnt broken. 10 hour survivals? 500 wave defenses? 

[marelooke]

3 hours ago, Thaylien said:

Exactly.

Saryn used to be a nuke frame, you could pull a solid 10k damage from a Miasma every time, and the max efficiency, max strength, min duration build worked perfectly with just that one ability. It completely ruined the other three, but with Saryn's unlikely amount of armour and an easy press-4-to-nuke ability, that was all you needed to destroy most game modes on the star chart.

On the other hand, I just forma'd up enough of a build on Saryn that is... kind of obscene. I forget efficiency, put it all into strength and duration, while keeping as much range as I can. This nets me a spore build that you hit once, cast Toxic Lash, gain all your energy back in a few swings, and repeat until you have everything in the room (and the next ones) at half health, suffering from toxic procs in the high hundreds to thousands range, and then blitz everything in range with Miasma for 15k damage each. You can get higher than the old Saryn, you just have to play her differently. It's all about the Spore farming, with Molt for survivability (if you're solo I'd swap out a bit of power strength for Regenerative Molt), and making sure that nothing and nobody you're against is healthy and fully functional.

I've seen Toxic procs on some enemies in the 10k range just from the Spores alone, forget Miasma... It's such a good ability. And all because they took away the negative duration part of her that she had before.

As to the min duration build ruining the other three abilities, that's just untrue, they were of questionable utility long before the "Saryn meta". Once DE "balances" a frame people just start looking for another way to clear things fast and preferably without putting in much effort. The limited range of Miasma had put people off of using her before but once the previous meta got "nerfed" (don't even remember what it was honestly, maybe Ember?), Saryn was just the next best thing. Even people that played Saryn a lot before she got "meta", like yours truly, didn't particularly use her for much other than that she was one of the tankiest frames in the game and had some good 'oh S#&$' abilities (Miasma and Molt). Venom and Contagion were barely used because they were rather ineffective.

I still lament that she lost a good chunk of HP (especially since her kit screams "melee!"), and that due to the way her mechanics work she's now kinda "limited" in which weapons work well with her. Other than that I like the rework and I still play her a lot.

That said, the points I made earlier about *current* Saryn, or rather, about stupid OP AOE weaponry still stand, a nerf to high damage AOE weaponry would be rather welcome otherwise some people will just wipe the room clean before you can get your spores rolling properly.

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

6 hours ago, D20 said:

They're trying to actively get rid of every kind of ability that allows one to rack up kills or clear maps way too easly or cheese some gamemodes, while giving an utility to abilities that were not used for some reason. The goal is to make players work a bit more in order to pull out a massive amount of damage while trying to make the whole skillset of a warframe useful.

The best exemple I could pull out is Saryn's rework, that massively changed how she works. Prior to her rework, most of people would build Saryn with a duration as low as possible due to Miasma actually getting a big benefit with very low duration builds. But those builds pretty much also made every other abilities almost useless. The rework gave to Saryn a lot of synergies on all of her skills, encouraging skill combos, and making all abilities useful in their own way while making players work a bit more to earn their kills.

If this is the case, then after the War Within, the next major update should be Framing 2.0 (or 3.0 or whatever iteration) and they should work, exclusively, on fixing and upgrading all the frames... no more of this piecemeal stuff. Because all it does is piss people off and destroy the game/gameplay, because a loss frame synergy equals a loss of game synergy and the fun goes down the toilet. Stop adding new things that will eventually be broken by the changes and fixes to the old stuff and just fix the old stuff first. If you keep piling things onto your plate at a faster rate then you can eat them, then it will never empty. And technically, fixing the frames makes them new again and will change the gameplay enough that another update of truly new content can be put off a little while longer because people will actually be enjoying their favorite frames as they never have and probably have to adjust their builds/forma again (which takes time).

With the Holiday release schedule of all the AAA titles from great studios, like: Sony Santa Monica, Sucker Punch, EA, Activision/Blizzard, 2K/Take 2 (even though I know that DE has partnered with them on other titles) and even a few of the other Canada based companies (like that English Vampire game), DE has a lot of competition, very strong competition and from major players. U19 should be amazing enough to lock-in the player base and maybe even grow it a bit more, in preparation of the coming onslaught... but the frame fixes need to be the next highest/only priority afterwards.

Winter is coming, DE. Are you prepared?

Edited June 27, 2016 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[(XBOX)KickassNinja14]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

the next major update should be Framing 2.0

they tried this with passives and it didnt work too well

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)KickassNinja14 said:

they tried this with passives and it didnt work too well

Yea, because, they've waited all this time to even attempt it and with all the new patches and additional tons of code, they have shot themselves in the foot in that area... cause the entire game will probably need to be overhauled in order to even make it work (unfortunately).

To me, the mentality seems to be: misdirection (with new content) and band-aids for bullet holes (all the little tweaks and patches to keep the game running, though poorly, until they have no choice, due to player outrage, but to do something drastic to fix some of the major issues).

Edited June 27, 2016 by (PS4)GR13V4NC3

[(XBOX)KickassNinja14]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)GR13V4NC3 said:

Yea, because, they've waited all this time to even attempt it and with all the new patches and additional tons of code, they have shot themselves in the foot in that area... cause the entire game will probably need to be overhauled in order to even, actually, make it work (unfortunately).

RevXDev predicted this *awaits ban for mentioning his name*

[(PSN)GR13V4NC3]

Just now, (XB1)KickassNinja14 said:

RevXDev predicted this *awaits ban for mentioning his name*

LOL. Well played, sir! Well, played.