I play Ivara and I use the Dread. What build should I use?

[(PSN)To_The_Empire]

I am mainly an Ivara player, she is my favorite Warframe in the game, and not only that, my most played and The frame I go into the Simulacrum with the most. So I have a question.

I use the Dread, as it is one of my favorite bows in the game, and bows are my favorite type of primary. The build I have on it includes:

Serration R9

Heavy Caliber R8

Point Strike R5

Speed Trigger R5

Fanged Fusilade R5

Argon Scope R5

Split Chamber R5

Vital Sense R5

But I want to be able to put Piercing Caliber on there to have it compatible with Artemis Bow, plus I want to do Void, so I tried replacing Fanged Fusilade with Piercing Caliber. However, the Dread's solo use dropped so low it was unrecognizable. Which mod should I take off to have Piercing Caliber on?

[Brachion]

I'd personally suggest using a Puncture-oriented bow, rather than the Dread, since Artemis Bow does mostly Puncture damage.

[(XBOX)TheMadCash]

Her 4th is mostly puncture dmg. Soo I would use a puncture bow with puncture mods to get the most out of her dmg. 

 

Also your build isn't great for a couple of reasons.

1. No elements. It's absolutely needed for every build

2. Heavy Cal shouldn't be used on Bows, snipers, rocket launchers (Make use of those 120% base mods in replace of em)

3. Is Argon Scope really needed? If so I would replace Speed Trigger for it personally. Less draw speed for more Power.

Here is a possible bow build you can use (for the dread)

Serration 

Split Chamber

Fang Fusullade 

Speed Trigger

Point Strike

Vital Sense

(2 elements of your choice)

 

[(PSN)To_The_Empire]

39 minutes ago, Brachion said:

I'd personally suggest using a Puncture-oriented bow, rather than the Dread, since Artemis Bow does mostly Puncture damage.

I don't want to use the Paris Prime

That's why I specifically said the Dread. I have the Paris, just prefer the Dread for personal reasons.

31 minutes ago, (XB1)Cash201293 said:

Her 4th is mostly puncture dmg. Soo I would use a puncture bow with puncture mods to get the most out of her dmg. 

 

Also your build isn't great for a couple of reasons.

1. No elements. It's absolutely needed for every build

2. Heavy Cal shouldn't be used on Bows, snipers, rocket launchers (Make use of those 120% base mods in replace of em)

3. Is Argon Scope really needed? If so I would replace Speed Trigger for it personally. Less draw speed for more Power.

Here is a possible bow build you can use (for the dread)

Serration 

Split Chamber

Fang Fusullade 

Speed Trigger

Point Strike

Vital Sense

(2 elements of your choice)

 

I specifically don't use any elemental combinations because it's not necessary IMO. Corrosive is the only one that I use, and Corrosive Projection is good enough for me. I would prefer the raw damage from the bow than to have to sacrifice the puncture/slash damage for it, especially at the expense of having 3 mods I would rather have on the bow than those ones.

[Veridantus]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)To_The_Empire said:

I don't want to use the Paris Prime

That's why I specifically said the Dread. I have the Paris, just prefer the Dread for personal reasons.

I specifically don't use any elemental combinations because it's not necessary IMO. Corrosive is the only one that I use, and Corrosive Projection is good enough for me. I would prefer the raw damage from the bow than to have to sacrifice the puncture/slash damage for it, especially at the expense of having 3 mods I would rather have on the bow than those ones.

Heavy cal deviates your shot by a lot..

the thing is.. if you want to maximize the damage on artemis bow, you need to remove fanged fusillade & use Piercing caliber which increase puncture damage.
if you use piercing caliber on dread, the +120 puncture damage is non-existent & you end up wasting a mod slot.

also Elemental damage is almost always needed on any kind of weapon.

if you dont want elemental damage, then switch heavy cal.
Serration max

elemental mod max

Point Strike max

Speed Trigger r3 is enough but if you have points, then max

Piercing Caliber R5

Argon Scope R5

Split Chamber R5

Vital Sense R5

Edited June 28, 2016 by Veridantus

[Inarticulate]

If you intend to use both the Dread and Artemis Bow:

• Serration
• Split Chamber
• Point Strike
• Vital Sense
• Speed Trigger or Vile Acceleration
• 3 90% elemental mods

Unless I am mistaken, Argon Scope and Bladed Rounds do not affect Artemis Bow at all (I never actually pay attention to the top-right corner of my screen when using Artemis Bow, so I'm not 100% sure), and Heavy Caliber does a number to your accuracy when using the Dread.

The choice between Speed Trigger and Vile Acceleration is based on your preference. If I recall correctly, the delay between Artemis Bow shots is unaffected by fire rate; only the fan rotation speed is affected. If you typically use only the vertical fan, you'll probably want Speed Trigger instead of Vile Acceleration so as to not lose damage per shot.

Personally, I actually run the Dread with Fanged Fusillade in place of the third elemental mod, but that's mostly because I already find the damage of Artemis Bow to be sufficient for all of my typical use cases.

[VKhaun]

I don't understand the question. Why are we trying so hard to use a mod that doesn't benefit Dread? I get that Artemis Bow is puncture, but why are we chasing physical damage? Just put elements and crit on it.

Serration / Split Chamber / Cryo Rounds / Infected Clip
Point Strike / Argon Scope / Vital Sense / Bladed Rounds

Maxed out Heavy Caliber is a TEENY TINY upgrade from Bladed Rounds but it makes it so headshots with Dread are only reliable a point blank.

 

 

1 hour ago, (PS4)To_The_Empire said:

I specifically don't use any elemental combinations because it's not necessary IMO. Corrosive is the only one that I use, and Corrosive Projection is good enough for me. I would prefer the raw damage from the bow than to have to sacrifice the puncture/slash damage for it, especially at the expense of having 3 mods I would rather have on the bow than those ones.

This quote makes me think you don't quite understand how elemental mods and procs work yet. Elemental damage is only slightly lower than physical mods on this particular weapon, and then will get larger and better bonuses than physical damage.

Proc effects don't go off on every shot and Corrosive isn't terribly useful on a slow firing weapon like a bow when it comes to stripping armor. You'd only use it for damage bonus to ferrite.

Edited June 28, 2016 by VKhaun

[SNAAAAKE]

Drop Speed Trigger if you're really that greedy for physical damage. Ivara has enough tools to make up for the drop in fire rate to protect objectives/survive.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

OP if you want to ignore helpful advice go for it. Use the Dread with piercing caliber and do less damage if you want to but it will never do as much damage with Artemis bow as Paris Prime will.

[VKhaun]

2 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

OP if you want to ignore helpful advice go for it. Use the Dread with piercing caliber and do less damage if you want to but it will never do as much damage with Artemis bow as Paris Prime will.

^Incorrect.

Artemis Bow does not use the stats of your equipped weapon for anything. Only the mods. Piercing Caliber on Dread has the same effect on Artemis Bow as Piercing Caliber on Paris Prime or MK1-Paris or anything else.

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Ivara

Edited June 28, 2016 by VKhaun

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, VKhaun said:

^Incorrect.

Artemis Bow does not use the stats of your equipped weapon for anything. Only the mods. Piercing Caliber on Dread has the same effect on Artemis Bow as Piercing Caliber on Paris Prime or MK1-Paris or anything else.

Wrong. Artemis bow is inherently puncture damage and using Paris Prime will increase it. Read the OP, he wants to use Piercing Caliber on Dread to boost Artemis Bow. I'm saying it won't work and so are the others. Besides outside of Artemis you're just handicapping your Dread whereas  Paris will be boosted.

Just to clarify, adding power strength increases the bow's base stats that Artemis uses therefore increasing Puncture damage on a weapon which is inherently puncture based, is going to increase the damage more than one that isn't.

Edited June 28, 2016 by Zilchy

[VKhaun]

Just now, Zilchy said:

Wrong. Artemis bow is inherently puncture damage and using Paris Prime will increase it.

That's just flatly wrong.

To_The_Empire already mentioned using the sim. If for some reason they doubt the wiki page a simple test can be done to confirm.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

6 minutes ago, VKhaun said:

That's just flatly wrong.

To_The_Empire already mentioned using the sim. If for some reason they doubt the wiki page a simple test can be done to confirm.

Please try this. Go and test a Dread and Paris Prime with Artemis bow. Use the same Ivara mods and the same mods in both bows. When the Paris does more damage, come back and see me.

[VKhaun]

37 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Please try this. Go and test a Dread and Paris Prime with Artemis bow. Use the same Ivara mods and the same mods in both bows. When the Paris does more damage, come back and see me.

Forgive my sloppy movement and shooting. Played other games yesterday on my day off. Just got on real quick to shadow play and cut this.

 

 

Edited June 28, 2016 by VKhaun

[(PSN)To_The_Empire]

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

OP if you want to ignore helpful advice go for it. Use the Dread with piercing caliber and do less damage if you want to but it will never do as much damage with Artemis bow as Paris Prime will.

I'm not ignoring you. I just said I'd rather not use elements because I always do fine without them; besides, they take spots away from mods I actually want on my weapon, such as Argon Scope. You don't have to be rude and make assumptions.

Second, your whole argument is false. I tested your theory with the Rakta Cernos, the Paris Prime, and the Dread, with Ivara at 100% Power Strength, the Build I listed above on all 3 bows, and they all dealt the same damage for every arrow of AB.

Besides, I already stated above I do not want to use the Paris Prime because I simply do not like the Paris Prime, I prefer the Dread; if I use Artemis Bow I get all the Puncture damage I want.

Edited June 29, 2016 by (PS4)To_The_Empire

[VKhaun]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)To_The_Empire said:

I'm not ignoring you. I just said I'd rather not use elements because I always do fine without them; besides, they take spots away from mods I actually want on my weapon, such as Argon Scope. You don't have to be rude and make assumptions.

Second, your whole argument is false. I tested your theory with the Rakta Cernos, the Paris Prime, and the Dread, with Ivara at 100% Power Strength, the Build I listed above on all 3 bows, and they all dealt the same damage for every arrow of AB.

Besides, I already stated above I do not want to use the Paris Prime because I simply do not like the Paris Prime, I prefer the Dread; if I use Artemis Bow I get all the Puncture damage I want.

You're asking for an answer and then ruling out the possibility of any answer.

4 hours ago, (PS4)To_The_Empire said:

But I want to be able to put Piercing Caliber on there to have it compatible with Artemis Bow, plus I want to do Void, so I tried replacing Fanged Fusilade with Piercing Caliber. However, the Dread's solo use dropped so low it was unrecognizable. Which mod should I take off to have Piercing Caliber on?

You can't replace a mod that helps your damage with Piercing Caliber, which does not help your damage, and get more damage... If you want to slow down your shots you could replace Speed Trigger to not lose damage per shot, but you'd still be losing damage over time and the nice quality of life that comes with firing rate.

The best advice you can be given is to reconsider your position about not using elemental mods. They apply just fine to both Artemis Bow and Dread vs physical types that only benefit one or the other.

Edited June 29, 2016 by VKhaun

[(PSN)Sin-Kytori]

So as an Ivara user, I feel ya. (I personally prefer the rakta cernos for that STUPID fast fire rate and boom virus explosions XD)

So here's what THEY are saying in so many not so great words. Adding Piercing Caliber (120% The key being %) damage to dread means your dread only gets 12 damage added to it's puncture stat, which is essentially a wasted mod slot when using dread, but it's effect is still felt full force during arti bow. THAT'S what they are trying to get at but not explaining in any sorta great way. The same thing applies to ele damage mods. There are only so many % phys damage mods you can put on a weapon. Since ele mods don't subtract from physical damage, merely add damage of an element, then it's often seen as a way of increasing damage after you've already stacked all your phys mods. In the case of bows, however, the overall DPS can be increase due to the x2 effect of some mods.

 

So I'll make this a super short list for you. Prioritize anything that increase damage (Both phys and elemental work and are added to Arti bow, this includes rifle amp), fire rate, reload speed (This reduces the time between firing and starting the next charge), and since arti bow has a built in 25% crit chance, you can run a crit build but I wouldn't recommend it frankly. Most bows, if I recall correctly, benefit from 40-50% crit rate base so getting them to 100% is easy. Arti bow won't have that luxury. That said, you should possibly stay away from multi shot. I haven't tried it but if it works like shotguns, it will add another arrow to your arti bow fan which, i think, reduces overall damage output if you don't hit with every arrow. Beneficial if you do tho, so keep that in mind. Also, using heavy caliber is probably spreading your arti bow shots out. That's also something to consider. Hope this helps. Nice to see someone else who likes Ivara as much as I do. :)

[Inarticulate]

41 minutes ago, (PS4)To_The_Empire said:

Besides, I already stated above I do not want to use the Paris Prime because I simply do not like the Paris Prime, I prefer the Dread; if I use Artemis Bow I get all the Puncture damage I want.

If you want Artemis Bow to be stronger at any cost to your Dread, I'd remove Argon Scope because it has no effect on Artemis Bow at all. If you don't use the horizontal fan, Speed Trigger is the next highest on the list. After that, Fanged Fusillade.

As VKhaun states above, if you want both your Dread and Artemis Bow to be in a good position without sacrificing either of them, you should reconsider your position on using elemental mods.

[(PSN)To_The_Empire]

18 minutes ago, VKhaun said:

You're asking for an answer and then ruling out the possibility of any answer.

 

You can't replace a mod that helps your damage with Piercing Caliber, which does not help your damage, and get more damage... If you want to slow down your shots you could replace Speed Trigger to not lose damage per shot, but you'd still be losing damage over time and the nice quality of life that comes with firing rate.

The best advice you can be given is to reconsider your position about not using elemental mods. They apply just fine to both Artemis Bow and Dread vs physical types that only benefit one or the other.

Hmm. As I said, the only one I do use is Corrosive damage, and that's only when I do Void Survivals/Defenses. I don;t want to use elemental for every mission though.

[(PSN)To_The_Empire]

32 minutes ago, (PS4)Sin-Kytori said:

So as an Ivara user, I feel ya. (I personally prefer the rakta cernos for that STUPID fast fire rate and boom virus explosions XD)

So here's what THEY are saying in so many not so great words. Adding Piercing Caliber (120% The key being %) damage to dread means your dread only gets 12 damage added to it's puncture stat, which is essentially a wasted mod slot when using dread, but it's effect is still felt full force during arti bow. THAT'S what they are trying to get at but not explaining in any sorta great way. The same thing applies to ele damage mods. There are only so many % phys damage mods you can put on a weapon. Since ele mods don't subtract from physical damage, merely add damage of an element, then it's often seen as a way of increasing damage after you've already stacked all your phys mods. In the case of bows, however, the overall DPS can be increase due to the x2 effect of some mods.

 

So I'll make this a super short list for you. Prioritize anything that increase damage (Both phys and elemental work and are added to Arti bow, this includes rifle amp), fire rate, reload speed (This reduces the time between firing and starting the next charge), and since arti bow has a built in 25% crit chance, you can run a crit build but I wouldn't recommend it frankly. Most bows, if I recall correctly, benefit from 40-50% crit rate base so getting them to 100% is easy. Arti bow won't have that luxury. That said, you should possibly stay away from multi shot. I haven't tried it but if it works like shotguns, it will add another arrow to your arti bow fan which, i think, reduces overall damage output if you don't hit with every arrow. Beneficial if you do tho, so keep that in mind. Also, using heavy caliber is probably spreading your arti bow shots out. That's also something to consider. Hope this helps. Nice to see someone else who likes Ivara as much as I do. :)

I @(*()$ love Ivara.

The main thing I always tested with Artemis Bow was to get a sort of universal build. Something I could use against pretty much every faction against. And from what I've researched and found on my own, using elementals is a tad unreliable. I simply don't like having damage varying against the different factions. I've always stuck with the 3 base damages. I might just end up sticking with the Elemental combo and just going through and switching based on the enemy type, but that just doesn't appeal to me either. But it'll probably be necessary. Paris Prime + Corrosive, R Cernos + Magnetic for Corpus, and Dread + Gas for Infested. So much for having farmed Piercing Cal and Argon Scope Those mods are so fun  :'(

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 hours ago, VKhaun said:

Forgive my sloppy movement and shooting. Played other games yesterday on my day off. Just got on real quick to shadow play and cut this.

 

 

Apologies for the slow reply, I'm juggling work at the same time :) 

I used to think the same, that it worked like an Exalted ability and only the mods mattered. However during the Lephantis level 100 Sortie I noticed that Paris Prime was doing more damage than Dread while using Artemis. It made no sense so I did some digging and found players who said that adding Power Strength to Ivara increased the base damage of the weapon, which would therefore increase the scaling of puncture damage between Paris and Dread and make Piercing Caliber be more effective. Since Lephantis is vulnerable to Puncture damage, this reasoning explained the higher damage I was seeing.

Now personally, I'm with you I just chuck on elemental damage and Artemis does stupidly high damage but if he really wants to maximise his puncture damage, the above reasoning would make Paris the better choice.

[VKhaun]

Just now, Zilchy said:

I used to think the same, that it worked like an Exalted ability and only the mods mattered. However during the Lephantis level 100 Sortie I noticed that Paris Prime was doing more damage than Dread while using Artemis. It made no sense so I did some digging and found players who said that adding Power Strength to Ivara increased the base damage of the weapon, which would therefore increase the scaling of puncture damage between Paris and Dread and make Piercing Caliber be more effective. Since Lephantis is vulnerable to Puncture damage, this reasoning explained the higher damage I was seeing

Did you just reply to a video showing you're wrong, to double down on being right?

I'm not going to call you a liar if you say you saw higher damage numbers but I think you're trying way too hard to attribute that to your choice of weapon among all the other things going on in a lv100 Sortie.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

3 hours ago, (PS4)To_The_Empire said:

I'm not ignoring you. I just said I'd rather not use elements because I always do fine without them; besides, they take spots away from mods I actually want on my weapon, such as Argon Scope. You don't have to be rude and make assumptions.

Second, your whole argument is false. I tested your theory with the Rakta Cernos, the Paris Prime, and the Dread, with Ivara at 100% Power Strength, the Build I listed above on all 3 bows, and they all dealt the same damage for every arrow of AB.

Besides, I already stated above I do not want to use the Paris Prime because I simply do not like the Paris Prime, I prefer the Dread; if I use Artemis Bow I get all the Puncture damage I want.

Not trying to be rude mate, what I'm trying to explain is that you've basically got the wrong idea about how damage works in the game. Once things get armour on them the only realistic option is elemental damage that is effective against the armour type. Physical damage does very little, Dread only becomes awesome when you have 4 players with Corrosive Projection which eliminates all enemy armour. With just your 1 CP aura you're removing 30% of their armour so an enemy with 10,000 armour will still have 7000 for you to crack through for that physical damage to count for something. Enemy armour scales extremely quickly making physical damage massively inferior to elemental unless you have those 4 CP auras.

Pretty much every weapon in your arsenal will benefit and be more effective in any given situation if you use 2 of the mod slots for an elemental combo. 

[(PSN)Sin-Kytori]

3 hours ago, (PS4)To_The_Empire said:

I @(*()$ love Ivara.

The main thing I always tested with Artemis Bow was to get a sort of universal build. Something I could use against pretty much every faction against. And from what I've researched and found on my own, using elementals is a tad unreliable. I simply don't like having damage varying against the different factions. I've always stuck with the 3 base damages. I might just end up sticking with the Elemental combo and just going through and switching based on the enemy type, but that just doesn't appeal to me either. But it'll probably be necessary. Paris Prime + Corrosive, R Cernos + Magnetic for Corpus, and Dread + Gas for Infested. So much for having farmed Piercing Cal and Argon Scope Those mods are so fun  :'(

The thing a lot of them don't mention is that the damage and the proc are separate. Say you have 2000 toxin damage on a weapon. It deals toxin damage 100% of the time, but the toxin proc only happens status % chance of the time. Make sense?

[(PSN)To_The_Empire]

12 hours ago, (PS4)Sin-Kytori said:

The thing a lot of them don't mention is that the damage and the proc are separate. Say you have 2000 toxin damage on a weapon. It deals toxin damage 100% of the time, but the toxin proc only happens status % chance of the time. Make sense?

One question I have to ask you all is how damage in this game works as a whole, because no one ever gives me a complete answer.

Whenever I shoot an arrow (or two arrows), a number (or two) always shows up, either yellow or red. And I have the Dread bow + Corrosive. Now my question here is, is this number the number of damage dealt AFTER resistances and is the number of all damages combined AFTER resistances and is classified as all four damages (Slash, Impact, Puncture, and Corrosive), or does only one of the damages get classified whenever you shoot an arrow, and it has a chance to be classified as any of the four damages? And then, what is the purpose of Red Crits? The only thing about them I could research about them was that they did more damage than regular crits, which barely seems to be true.

I always understood procs. I get that. But as I said before I don't use elements often so I could give a lovely f** about them. The questions above are my questions.

[Inarticulate]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)To_The_Empire said:

One question I have to ask you all is how damage in this game works as a whole, because no one ever gives me a complete answer.

Whenever I shoot an arrow (or two arrows), a number (or two) always shows up, either yellow or red. And I have the Dread bow + Corrosive. Now my question here is, is this number the number of damage dealt AFTER resistances and is the number of all damages combined AFTER resistances and is classified as all four damages (Slash, Impact, Puncture, and Corrosive), or does only one of the damages get classified whenever you shoot an arrow, and it has a chance to be classified as any of the four damages? And then, what is the purpose of Red Crits? The only thing about them I could research about them was that they did more damage than regular crits, which barely seems to be true.

I always understood procs. I get that. But as I said before I don't use elements often so I could give a lovely f** about them. The questions above are my questions.

The number you see is the number after all resistances are calculated. You are seeing two numbers because multishot is causing your weapon to shoot two arrows.

The yellow number indicates a critical hit. All damage is multiplied by the weapon's critical multiplier. For example, if your weapon has 90 Slash, 5 Puncture, and 5 Impact, and your critical multiplier is 4.4, the hit deals 396 Slash, 22 Puncture, and 22 Impact (before accounting for headshot multipliers).

A red number is a "double" critical hit. All damage is multiplied by double the weapon's critical multiplier minus 1. In the above example, the red critical multiplier is 7.8.

• 7.8 = 1 + (4.4 - 1) + (4.4 - 1) = 1 + 2 x (4.4 - 1) = 2 x 4.4 - 1
  • 4.4 is your critical multiplier.
  • (4.4 - 1) = 3.4 is the critical multiplier minus one for the base damage, or the bonus damage you receive from a critical hit.
  • A red critical is your base damage (1) plus double the critical hit bonus damage (2 x (4.4 - 1)), which is identical to double the critical multiplier (2 x 4.4) minus 1.

 

When you deal damage to an enemy, each damage type is individually modified by the damage multiplier from the enemy's health or armor type and the enemy's armor is decreased by the same multiplier.

Let's use the first example of 90 Slash, 5 Puncture, and 5 Impact with no critical hit. For this example, we'll be attacking a level 8 Heavy Gunner, which has 500 Ferrite Armor as its defense type. Someone please double-check my math.

• Slash has a -25% modifier against Ferrite Armor. This means your 90 Slash now does 90 x (1 - 0.25) = 67.5 damage mitigated by 500 x (1 + 0.25) = 625 armor for a total of 21.8 damage. See the Wiki for the armor calculation formula.
• Puncture has a +50% modifier against Ferrite Armor. This means your 5 Puncture now does 5 x (1 + 0.5) = 7.5 damage mitigated by 500 x (1 - 0.5) = 250 armor for a total of 4.1 damage.
• Impact has no modifier against Ferrite Armor. This means your 5 Impact does 5 damage mitigated by 500 armor for a total of 1.9 damage.

Your total damage is the sum of all of the damage from the individual damage types, so 21.8 + 4.1 + 1.9 = 28 damage.

Now here is where elemental damage is useful. Adding Stormbringer and Infected Clip to create Corrosive damage adds 180 Corrosive to your weapon. Let's assume you do not proc the Corrosive status effect.

• Corrosive has a +75% modifier against Ferrite Armor. This means your 180 Corrosive now does 180 x (1 + 0.75) = 315 damage mitigated by 500 x (1 - 0.75) = 125 armor for a total of 222 damage.

If you had instead added 180 pure physical damage with the same distribution (90% Slash, 5% Puncture, 5% Impact) as before, you would have added only 50 damage (28 x 1.8) for a total of 78 damage. The 222 damage increase from Corrosive damage for a total of 250 damage absolutely blows this number out of the water. This is why matching the elemental damage type to your enemy's health or armor type's weakness is so important.