WTenno v. Jedi| Who Would Win

[Aimop95]

1 minute ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Sentients don't immediately die in the Void, so just us being in the Void wouldn't stop him.

Because he was caught blindsided and was panicing

 

It was not designed to withstand the Void. Lotus mentions that the Sentient could not overcome their weakness to the Void period. So, it couldn't be "designed" to eb Void resistance. But again, normal Void exposure doesn't immediately kill a Sentient outright. (What we did when we escaped from the reservoir was a focused exposure, so it's a bit different).

I don't think it's quite like that. Hunhow let's Stalker do the all the work because his fragments are finite and irreplaceable. So it's logical that he would use those only when it's absolutely necessary.

 

 

I edited my original post for some testing.

Hunhow had 22 seconds to realize what was going on. Sentients deploy in 4 seconds. This gives Hunhow more than enough time to send in reinforcements. He asked for help from Stalker, why would he need help from Stalker, when he could help himself? He couldn't stop War from being torn in half because there was no way for Hunhow to physically intervene. 

We don't know if Hunhow's fragments are finite as of right now. As of right now, you can do Luna missions forever and Hunhow will always have at least 2 of his Fragments battling you. You're assuming they are when we have nothing that confirms it. In fact, as far as the Second Dream and Luna missions are concerned, Hunhow has more than enough to spare as there will always be Sentient drones being spawned in those maps.

[VisionAndVoice]

4 minutes ago, Zezakh said:

• I think you're underselling his deflecting prowess a bit.  Mace used it once to hold off a large number of droids to buy for time.   Tenno on the other hand, are relient on energy to deflect, and thus often prefer to take the hit and use the energy elseware
• Force boomerang is just the tip of the telekentic iceburg.  Mace can force project just about anything that isn't bolted down at an opponent, which would probably have a hell of a lot of kenetic power behind it.   If it can connect, anyways
• This is a bit of a stretch, but i imagine force persuasion could be used offensively to short out a operator's connection to a warframe for a second.  It could also possibly be used to make a Kubrow or Catbrow turn on its former master.   maybe. 
• Its been pretty much decided to ignore shatterpoint by this point.

- I'm not really underselling it, I just don't remember how Mace specifically performs with it. But assuming that he can tank infinite amount of bullets - there are explosive weapons, Simulor, Sonicor, gas bullets... how does he fare against poisons by the way? I'm not mentioning Punch Through, because lightsaber can probably counter that.

- It is a tip of the iceberg, yes, but unless he can effectively replicate Mag's Bullet Attractor, Banshee's Soundquake in 3D space or Inaros' Sandstorm's effects with it then it brings us back to my "basic mobility powers evasion" point. I'd say it can go either way if he can effectively levitate only human-sized objects, but if he can juggle vehicle-sized things then tenno would be at a svere disadvantage. What would stop him from just grabbing a frame and suspend it a la Bastille or Zenurik?

- He probably can affect kubrow/kavat's mind. As for a Tenno - if he can severe the connection between a frame and an operator, then, potentially, he would be left with a feral frame to compete against. Even if that one can't be mind controlled, it would lack Tenno's finesse and tactical capabilities, so my bet is on Mace here. If he can't sever the connection, then it boils down to whether an operator has enough mental fortitude to resist him, and from my estimations operators have at least some.

- Decided by whom? I'm not convinced by arguments against taking it into account.

[VisionAndVoice]

9 minutes ago, Aimop95 said:

We don't know if Hunhow's fragments are finite as of right now.

We know with absolute certainty that they are finite, as both Lotus and Hunhow confirm that after they were exposed to the Void when they travelled to our system they could not reproduce. So, he may have many fragments but they are finite and no new ones are coming. Not until someone reestablishes connection to Tau system. Hell, you don't even encounter Sentients on every Moon node.

Edited July 22, 2016 by VisionAndVoice

[Aimop95]

Just now, VisionAndVoice said:

We know with absolute certainty that they are finite, as both Lotus and Hunhow confirm that after they were exposed to the Void when they travelled to our system they could not reproduce. So, he may have many fragments but they are finite and no new ones are made. Not until someone reestablishes connection to Tau system.

We know they cannot reproduce. I don't think any of those fragments Hunhow sends at us will become rebellious children who want to be mother to space ninjas. As far as I can tell, those drones are mindless and like quills on a porcupine, part of Hunhow and infinite in number as long as Hunhow is alive. 

[VisionAndVoice]

3 minutes ago, Aimop95 said:

We know they cannot reproduce. I don't think any of those fragments Hunhow sends at us will become rebellious children who want to be mother to space ninjas. As far as I can tell, those drones are mindless and like quills on a porcupine, part of Hunhow and infinite in number as long as Hunhow is alive. 

If they are his fragments, part of him, then they are the same as War, and when that was damaged Hunhow decided to retreat - if his fragments are as easily replaceable I doubt he would freak out so much.

[Aimop95]

Just now, VisionAndVoice said:

If they are his fragments, part of him, then they are the same as War, and when that was damaged Hunhow decided to retreat - if his fragments are as easily replaceable I doubt he would freak out so much.

He calls Natah his daughter, why doesn't he address his fragments as children then? Or adversely, why call Natah daughter if she's just a fragment of him? He's using two different word choices here that imply that Sentient children and Sentient fragments are separate things. 

As for freaking out, it's because he was losing contact with Stalker, with the Orbiter that's probably full of locations of other Tenno orbiter (or at least the clan of that current Tenno anyway). The point is, he's losing a lot of precious intel that could easily end the "Old War" as Hunhow puts it. Now he's back at square one. 

And another point, if there ever was a time to send fragments (even if they were finite), back when the Warframe was ripping War in half was the time to do it. The operator was at his/her most vulnerable and in no position of power to blow up more fragments (he/she had just used most of his/her power to turn on the chair), all it would have taken was one drone that could have knocked the Warframe to the ground and prevented further movement. If the fragments were Hunhow's children, he wouldn't have lost as many as he has now to Tenno, if he had stopped the Tenno back then during the 2nd Dream.He's probably lost a significant amount of children to Tenno on Lua than if he had sent 1 or 2 to stop the Warframe from breaking War. 

[VisionAndVoice]

1 minute ago, Aimop95 said:

He calls Natah his daughter, why doesn't he address his fragments as children then? Or adversely, why call Natah daughter if she's just a fragment of him?

Different attitude. Compare Lotus and fragments - which one is easier to empathise with?

4 minutes ago, Aimop95 said:

As for freaking out, it's because he was losing contact with Stalker,

Why did he say "Protect me" if all was happening was him losing connection to the scene?

5 minutes ago, Aimop95 said:

And another point, if there ever was a time to send fragments (even if they were finite), back when the Warframe was ripping War in half was the time to do it.

You keep mistaking Hunhow for someone emotionless completely rational at all times or infallible. He is neither. He has personality, affections and everything that comes with it. He also has limited attention window.

As I said before, at that moment he was caught by surprise, in pain and most likely in panic. He simply did not think about sending more fragments in, even if he could.

[Aimop95]

Just now, VisionAndVoice said:

Different attitude. Compare Lotus and fragments - which one is easier to empathise with?

Why did he say "Protect me" if all was happening was him losing connection to the scene?

You keep mistaking Hunhow for someone emotionless completely rational at all times or infallible. He is neither. He has personality, affections and everything that comes with it. He also has limited attention window.

As I said before, at that moment he was caught by surprise, in pain and most likely in panic. He simply did not think about sending more fragments in, even if he could.

So he favors the Lotus (who betrayed him) over his other children enough to call her his daughter but the rest aren't even worthy of being called such familial names? Maybe we will see more rebellious children. But on a serious note, I highly doubt that was a writer trick, because everyone still would have blasted Hunhow's fragments to bits regardless if he called them his children or not and everyone still would have empathized more with Lotus because she's not trying to kill us.

Maybe War can transmit pain or maybe each of Hunhow's fragments are connected to his nervous system so he can tell better analyze a situation, I don't know. But this still does not make a convincing argument that the fragments are Hunhow's children, because Warframes operate under the same principal with operators.The only difference being that Hunhow can control multiple fragments simultaneously instead of the Operator's one warframe.

To address your third point, i'm going to have to back track a little. We've established that the Void prevents Hunhow from reproducing. That we know for certain. Going back to the dialogue, I found one particularly interesting line:

"Collapse the Void, Shadow, so that my Fragments may attack. The Tenno hearts will beat their last."

This implies that Hunhow cannot enter the Void period. He needs someone on the inside to collapse it, some how nullifying whatever is that is preventing his complete entry to the Void. Furthermore, Hunhow, has expressed great personal interest in getting his hands "dirty". If he merely wanted Stalker to do his dirty work, ordering Stalker to simply slaughter the sleeping tenno would have been easier. Instead, he wants to attack the Moon with his own fragments. Keeping that in mind, if the Orbiter was outside the Void, Hunhow could have simply sent his fragments to finish the job. Instead, he convinced Stalker to kill the Operator again (remember that Stalker initially hesitated to kill the Operator during the big reveal). Why bother convincing an unreliable agent to do your dirty work when you could do it yourself? Hunhow said that Stalker's hate was weak, clearly disgusted that Stalker couldn't bring himself to kill the Operator at first sight. So now when Hunhow has the exact location of the Orbiter (which you say was outside the Void), why would he turn to someone who he cannot rely upon to finish such a significant event unless Hunhow was forced to ally himself again with Stalker, because the Tenno were now, once again, in an unreachable place.

So to bring it all together, the Orbiter must still be inside the Void now because Hunhow, who has expressed the desire to finish us off ourselves, was unable to enter because he could not physically without the Stalker collapsing the Void or straight up acting as the executioner.

[MetaTrooper]

6 hours ago, VisionAndVoice said:

As someone not versed in Star Wars - how in the flying hell on antigravity roller skates are these supposed to work? They blast you with sound? In the vacuum of space?

lol I have no idea, tbh it was only in rogue squadron 3, all i can tell you is they're seriously loud and destroy prety much everything in a large area.

[FLSH_BNG]

Are we talking about a combat between a Warframe and a Jedi/Sith? Or with the actual Tenno?

In terms of the former, with opponents of equivalent skill, I'd have to go with the Jedi more often than not, but it would depend on the Warframe being used too. They all have very limited but powerful abilities that would enable some Warframes to very easily win almost all of the time, Loki's Disarm skill for instance would either render lightsabers useless or, as it's a melee weapon it could have no effect at all.

But if it's a battle of skill with the Void/Force between Tenno and Jedi, considering again opponents of equivalent skill, I would have to go with the Tenno almost all of the time. The Force is an ever-present energy that requires a great deal of training to be able to even learn how to do the most basic tasks with it.

A newly awoken Tenno is capable of unleashing the unbridled energy of the Void even while completely exhausted. To have any chance at all for the Jedi/Sith to win, it would have to be a struggle between two extremely skilled and powerful opponents, where the experience and range of abilities known to them allow the Jedi to have multiple tools to deal with a Tenno.

These are of course accounting for challenges or duels where abilities and melee weapons only are used, if an entire arsenal is allowed to both sides, then I'd have to say that the Tenno would have a staggering advantage in most cases because of the range of weapons they could potentially have equipped.

[FLSH_BNG]

On 7/20/2016 at 11:15 PM, (PS4)Foxkid_8 said:

Uh. Nyx would like to have a word with you about that subject.

Don't forget to mention an Operator of the Naramon School.

[kanzu]

WELL, Lets take a smarter look at this.

Lets take the Tenno first.

The Tenno are the masters of literally any weapon. And there seems to be a hint of them being able to turn anything into a weapon. (A somewhat OP yet...reasonable example of this would be the War. We literally get War's part as a sword or we could get the actual War as a big &#! sword what does Impact damage[for some damn reason)]

In addition, the Tenno has A LOT of guns to choose from. Be it a rapid fire rate weapon like the Gorgon and Supra or a slow loading and heavy hitting weapon like the Angstrum.

The Tenno also have super-ninja-karfleppu powers. So, since the poster boy of Warframe is Excalibur, lets take him.

Excalibur can literally blast himself forwards, blind his enemies, shoot laser swords from the ground AND create his own laser sword should he run out of ammo or lose his weapons. 

In addition, the Tenno have parkour on their side which the Jedi can only dream of. And Tenno have a shield which even protect them when they are in space.

The Tenno is literally in space and controls a suit of power (so...lets just say, this fight is a Mirage case)

Now, lets take a look at a Jedi.

A jedi is a peacekeeper who wields his mind and a laser sword.

A jedi's sword seems to be able to cut through anything and lacks a guard.(Screw off Kylo!) If a saber has a guard the user needs to be way more careful than before and use a style of fighting which relies on brute hits and overpowering your enemy.

A jedi can use his mind to choke, shoot lightning (not really sure if this is something Jedi avoid), lift things or people and help the Jedi jump higher and land from higher places.

Lets take the poster boy of Jedi (and who is possibly one of the most loved Jedi) Obi-Wan Kenobi.

Obi-Wan Kenobi knows a lot of defensive fighting styles which are in the Star Wars universe (about...6 out of 8 I think) and the other powers mentioned above.

I see this fight like this:

Obi-Wan enters a cave with a hole in the ceiling, letting light in and he spots a meditating Excalibur. The Excalibur wields a Nikana, Kunai and a Braton. Obi-Wan enters a defensive position while slowly approaching and asking, "Who are you?!" The Excalibur stands up while pulling out it's braton and takes aim. "Not a friendly one I guess." The Excalibur begins to shoot until the gun runs out of ammo and Obi-Wan deflects almost all shots, those he does not deflect, end up just tattering his clothes.

The Excalibur drops his gun before dashing off to the side and throwing Kunai. Obi-Wan keeps keeps on deflecting at this point before Excalibur reaches for another array of Kunai. The Jedi uses his force to pull Excalibur to the ground before jumping high up in the air and coming down with a mighty blow, holding his saber with both hands. Excalibur takes this chance to dash forward under and past the Jedi before setting his hands on it's Nikana.

They both turn around to face eachother and Excalibur runs towards the Jedi who enters a defensive position. Excalibur mid run stops to ram it's Nikana into the ground and launches one of the swords towards the jedi. Obi-Wan blocks the sword as Excalibur ran towards him again. In the run, Excalibur let out a bright flash from his sword and did a spin-slid, ramming his Nikana into the Jedi's stomach and then doing a backflip. The Jedi slashes and lands a hit on the Excalibur's ankle, only for his sword to be deflected by the Excalibur's shield.

The Excalibur brings his hands forwards to summon his sword and dashes towards the Jedi, slicing him apart.

WINNER: Excalibur (Excalibur just goes back to meditating with a dead Jedi in the background)

So, the big question, why did the lightsaber get deflected by Excalibur's shield? Look no further than the CGI Star Wars cartoon which started in 2008. The earliest sight of any sort of energy shielding are those droids what generate a shield around them to shoot safely. Since that is the case, why not have a Jedi later in the series sneak up on one of them while they are shooting and stab them in the back?

Simple, the lasers are resistant to lasers (something which a lightsaber is) and to kill one like that, you just need to move a deactivated lightsaber past the shield and then activate it. As shown in  Landing at Point Rain