Cooldown System Vs Remove Energy Siphon Vs Hardcore Mode.

[Edai_X369]

Cooldown System.

Should we apply a cooldown system to the game?

There is not many differences between the 1st skill and 4th of a warframe but powerful and advantages.

Why would you use 1st skill when your 3rd and 4th skills are much more poweful and overwhelming( Pvp maybe?)?

Who would use Fireball of Ember, Shock of Volt, Venom of Saryn, Mind Control of Nyx,Freeze of Frost  on a mission? Loki, Ash , Rhino , Vauban and excalibur is not the case because their 3rd and 4th skills are useful in different siatuations.

 

Because of this , some warframes only need 1,2 core skills and Forma seems to be a good choice for replacing skill slots.

In standard games, Ultimate and strong skills always have a cooldown to distinguish between spammable skills and strong skills. That help they manage their gameplay properly. Would you use a 360 damage for a single target or 2000 damage for 50 targets?

 

Remove Energy Siphon

 

After 600 hours of gameplay, be honest with me.. In defense mission, would you ever use other artifacts  if you already had energy siphon and Enemy Radar?  

Other Artifacts might help newbie? Yes.

Those might help for exploration?Yes

Those would be use for core game content( Defense mission)? No

 

Moral: If you dont have Energy Siphon , go find it and get high wave defense with us.

 

Energy Siphon is just a support for spammable Ultimate skills and kinda a rip-off when people want this game to be Hard-core.

 

 

Hardcore mode.

At this point, many people will said " It ruins our experiences. This is freaking Space Ninjas"

Well then , apply this dificulty choices to make it truely hardcore because people are complaining this game is " SOFT  CORE" game.

 

What is your thought?

Edited June 22, 2013 by Zokkoven

[SleepingGuy]

Even with Multiple Energy Siphon's. Everyone Run's out of energy faster then a click if they Spam Ulti's. Hell they run out even when they aren't.

A Cool Down system would make this like the Average MMO. No one wan'ts that.

Just my Opinion though.

[NeverNever]

Could you explain exactly what it is you're asking better? Are these meant to be options we are voting between?

[ArcSynder]

How about keeping the current system and just getting rid of low cost damage abilities, such as fireball and shock, in favor of utility abilities. 

 

I use loki's decoy all the time. Rhino charge gives great mobility and cc in a pinch. The only reason so many frames save their energy for one ability is because that ability is flat out better than all their others. Volt's overload will always be better than 4 shocks. Putting down a fireblast or using world on fire will always be better than a couple of fireballs. Why use venom when miasma flat out kills everything?

 

TLDR: Design kits better so that every ability has a use...then we'll use every ability. 

[Yanga]

Could you explain exactly what it is you're asking better? Are these meant to be options we are voting between?

He's asking our opinion of what it should be for a hard-core game instead of favoring soft-core. Energy Siphon is one of the Artifacts that just make the game too easy because if you have 4 active, you really don't run out of energy unless you really try to waste it all.

 

 

How about keeping the current system and just getting rid of low cost damage abilities, such as fireball and shock, in favor of utility abilities. 

 

I use loki's decoy all the time. Rhino charge gives great mobility and cc in a pinch. The only reason so many frames save their energy for one ability is because that ability is flat out better than all their others. Volt's overload will always be better than 4 shocks. Putting down a fireblast or using world on fire will always be better than a couple of fireballs. Why use venom when miasma flat out kills everything?

 

TLDR: Design kits better so that every ability has a use...then we'll use every ability. 

Low damage abilities are used to maintain quiet damage and can also support teammates in battle if they decide to rush in. You ask for the low damage to be remove, Vauban players everywhere will hate it because they'll lose Tesla.

If anything, they might reduce damage on the other abilities to match what the damage might be if you used your weakest ability 4 times. Don't want that do we?

[muccmaster]

Cooldowns are a terrible idea for a game like this and there's nothing wrong with Energy Siphon. Like Scimatth7 said, the main problem is that for most frames spamming their nuke is the only worthwhile option since their other skills just aren't as useful.

[---ExcaliburPrime---]

Its not Energy Siphions fault all the other arifacts are crap.

Please your brain next time you make a thread.

[Hakaru]

Its not Energy Siphions fault all the other arifacts are crap.

Please your brain next time you make a thread.

 

While the last line is uncalled for, he pretty much is right.

 

The only worthwhile artifacts to use are (in order of usefulness), Energy Siphon, Rejuvenation, Rifle Amp, and Enemy Radar. 

 

I even find the new "rare" Artifacts questionable in their viability.

[BIossome]

I think their used to be cooldown system in early closed beta. It really only just slowed the game down. People would just wait for their Ult CD to be up and move to the next room.

[Raijinmeister]

No point to ad a hard core mode if our rewards are given by chance because of the retard random drop,mainly reason why most of the players dont go past jupiter or uranus and try just one or two times pluto.

energy siphon can't prevent people from be out of energy if:

1-they have a low dmg output in comparisson to the mission lvl they are running.

2-if they dont know when to use their skills and start to spam just for the sake of it and overkill targets easily killed by some shots.

Energy siphon seens OP cus all the rest sux.

Edited June 28, 2013 by Raijinmeister

[Gameoverman]

I've heard suggestions to have energy to slowly regenerate like stamina, but much slower. then maybe people wouldn't feel the need to use energy siphon?

[Oprah]

Cooldowns are a terrible idea for a game like this and there's nothing wrong with Energy Siphon. Like Scimatth7 said, the main problem is that for most frames spamming their nuke is the only worthwhile option since their other skills just aren't as useful.

ME3 multiplayer which is the closest thing to warframe gameplay wise runs purely off cooldowns and it works pretty well there.  The only significant issue I see with using a cooldown system in warframe is the fact that ultimate abilities exist.  People already stick with spamming their most useful ability regardless of what system manages the delay between your skills.  A cooldown system (depending on how long the cooldowns are) would eliminate having to walk around picking up blue orbs / rely on energy siphon.  Overall its more of a quality of life change.

 

Even with Multiple Energy Siphon's. Everyone Run's out of energy faster then a click if they Spam Ulti's. Hell they run out even when they aren't.

A Cool Down system would make this like the Average MMO. No one wan'ts that.

Just my Opinion though.

The average MMO uses a mix of a cooldown system as well as an energy based system.  From my experience in playing ME3 mutiplayer waiting for cooldowns does less to disrupt my focus on gameplay than an energy based system.  With an energy based system I'm almost always looking at the number to figure out which skills I can use before I have to fill the bar back up.  Using either system on its own is a matter of preference, I would personally prefer to wait for cooldowns as opposed to picking up blue orbs off the ground.

[Darxio]

Double the effectiveness of artifacts.

 

Make artifacts unable to stack with each other.

 

Allow player to set 4 artifacts in priorities of 1, 2, 3 and 4 to fall back on if one is already in use when joining a team.

 

Energy Siphon crisis averted.

[Aerroon]

He's asking our opinion of what it should be for a hard-core game instead of favoring soft-core. Energy Siphon is one of the Artifacts that just make the game too easy because if you have 4 active, you really don't run out of energy unless you really try to waste it all.

Usually, hardcore == permadeath, softcore would be without permadeath. I do think permadeath would be cool in this game.

[K0SM1C]

GTFO

[Lysander26]

Honestly, this would be my solution to the "Energy Siphon problem", if we decided it needs fixing.

 

Let everyone regenerate 1 Energy per tick with or without Energy Siphon.

 

Have Energy siphon work like Rifle Scavenger or that ilk and have Energy orbs drop more frequently.

[Ventias]

a cool down system would be a horrible idea in this game. Especially when farming bosses. Based on what i have read so far it seems you want a long enough cool down that lasts longer than an average quick boss run. 

 

As for the Artifact system. The game hasnt been out for that long, give it some time. Compared to most games i have played, so far, this game is advancing much faster than most of them. So it is expected to see exploits in the game. (every game has exploits, doesn't make the game any less fun + you have the choice to not use energy siphon) 

 

as for the hardcore mode.... hmmm that sounds like a great idea (im thinking as the difficulty increases so does the chance of getting a rare reward). Then again to build such a system will take A LOT of time, and will definitely not satisfy most of the player base right off the bat. 

[Yanga]

Usually, hardcore == permadeath, softcore would be without permadeath. I do think permadeath would be cool in this game.

no, there are different versions of 'Hardcore'... usually making the game harder on everyone. Take CoD for example on their hardcore, it's less health for everyone in the game... around where one pistol shot could kill you.

Pretty much to sum up what I said is "He wants the game to be more difficult than to keep it where it's so easy a monkey could do it".

[SAYO]

Heya, I'm not sure if it is because of the grammar or just the way it's written but I am having trouble

understanding the original post. If someone could clarify what he is asking or trying to express.

 

As for the energy syphon I remember Steve replying to a thread that he was 500% against cooldowns.

It does not match his philosophy of how skills should work. It is fine that we are discussing it but it seems

the chances for it to be implemented are slim.

 

Some of the #1 skils are pretty useful but more in context. Frost's #1 can freeze bosses with huge shields. I find it useful

during bursting down shields or when a teammate is down. Nyx's mind control can hold an entire army off the cryopod by controlling

a stronger unit. Vauban's tesla of course speaks for itself. I also use banshee's push for a quick area knockdown

when there are too many heavies to save my team. So I would disagree that people only spam ultimates.

[Coratha]

My vote is to wait and see how things look after the Mass Kit Rework and the Artifact System Overhaul coming around the time of U9. DE has already stated that the current Artifact system, and the ability kits of (most of) the older frames do not work in their current states, and are already under revision as we speak. Be patient for now, and wait to see what the devs already have cooking up. If you still think it's bad after that, then come back here to complain about it.

 

/my$0.02

[Mak_Gohae]

If i see a lonely ancient a drop a fireball to soften them up.... it's 25 energy so why not.

The same with Frost. Doesnt Freeze knock Ancients down too? That's a quick slow down there.

Mind control gets used ALL THE TIME. It's a tremendously excellent and cheap CC. Why would you Chaos if there is one heavy and two grunts around? That's just going to get him to attack you a few seconds later.

 

 

All those attacks have their uses.

If you are going to simply compare damage/effect... then, yes, they do less damage/effect. But if this is the argument then all Frames should have one attack, then.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Mak_Gohae

[Archon357]

Heya, I'm not sure if it is because of the grammar or just the way it's written but I am having trouble

understanding the original post. If someone could clarify what he is asking or trying to express.

Yeah, I'm not exactly sure either. I think it's about introducing cooldowns on all skills.

 

I think that's a bad idea. It always felt like a very cheap way to balance a game. Giving actual reasons why you'd want to use a lower level skill seems like a much better idea to me. And, honestly, Warframe doesn't have a big issue with that. Yeah, sure you can just press 4 with Saryn and kill everything within a certain radius. But tossing Venom into a crowd and spreading massive DoT (which will possibly reach much farther than Miasma) can be more tactically viable as well as potentially more damaging for one quarter of a cost.

I think that most people just disregard non-ultimate skills because they mostly don't have an instant gratification effect.

That said, there are indeed skills that don't warrant much use, but that just calls for a bit of balancing instead of a massive overhaul of a major game system.

 

As for the energy syphon I remember Steve replying to a thread that he was 500% against cooldowns.

It does not match his philosophy of how skills should work. It is fine that we are discussing it but it seems

the chances for it to be implemented are slim.

I'm glad to hear that, but I'm taking it with a grain of salt, since there's no source link.

 

As for a "Hardcore" mode, whatever the Hek that means, I think that a sorts of a switch for difficulty might not be a bad thing.

Then again, I recall Hero Mode from Vindictus and how much people whined that it has stat-wall enemies that they can't defeat and pretty much dissed the whole game because it was "non-accessible" for the lower-geared players.

Yegods the community over there was ridiculous.