Ash Bladestorm Replacement

[BlackCoMerc]

I've seen a lot of rework ideas for Bladestorm. Some make it even less interactive. DEs own (awful) suggestion of just summoning assassin clones while you do your own thing comes to mind.

Other ideas want Stances. Similar to Exalted Blade. And that's the trouble: similarity to Excalibur. 

One is a warrior samurai. The embodiment of Tenno honor. Named after a blade wielded by an honorable king.

The other is an assassin. Named for the remnants of fire and smoke.

So let's make Ash both interactive, and unique.

Let's Replace Bladestorm with Assassin's Grace.

 

Assassin's Grace - 25 energy, 25 energy per strike, Toggle:

While Grace is active:

All melee attacks use Ash's arm blades. (Yeah, I know; still it's own stance, but hang in there).

All melee attacks cost 25 energy each

All attacks deal scaling, Finisher damage

Teleport will use a Finisher upon arrival at the current energy cost of Grace mode attacks. The next Teleport does not use energy (repeatable).

Enemies not killed by melee attacks suffer a puncture proc and slash proc.

Combo counter duration is doubled, and increases an additional 10℅ for each kill.

Slam attacks deal an extra 50℅ damage.

Wall cling duration is greatly enhanced.

Unaware enemies are killed by attacks made while Assassin's Grace is active.

 

There you go. My take on Ash, the Assassin. Let Excalibur have his honorable combat. Let's make Ash the ghost hiding in the smoke. The specter clinging to the wall high above. Ash should be graceful doom, where Excalibur is honorable battle.

Thoughts?

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by BlackCoMerc

[Arxfiend]

25 energy per attack?

ASh, without the use of flow, has 175 energy at rank 30. With my r4 flow, he has 275.

Keep bladestorm.

[Nazrethim]

25 Energy per attack is what Channeling can reach at max negative efficiency, unless you have:

A) zero shields

B) Rage

C) Lots of health

D) Primed Flow

Assassin's grace wouldn't do jack other than draining energy.

It also removes Ash's AoE potential by not doing anything to clear crowds.

A little note: People have been asking to be able to use Ash's wristblades since way before Excalibur was reworked. Ash is also a melee frame, so is Excalibur, and Valkyr, and Wukong.

Ash plays like a ninja, he's pragmatic when it comes to combat, watch closely to BS animations and you see: Eye stabbing, Kicking and stabbing downed enemies, Stabs in the back.

The most important thing for an Ash's rework (his other abilities also need some love too) is to keep his theme WHILE making it just as effective as it is now AND making him interactive. Shameless self-promoting Example:

Spoiler

 

 

[PickleMonster21]

13 minutes ago, H2K3 said:

25 energy per attack?

ASh, without the use of flow, has 175 energy at rank 30. With my r4 flow, he has 275.

Keep bladestorm.

Ash, at max rank with a Max Flow has 300 Energy. Now, assuming that no enemies you kill drop any Energy Orbs, that's 11  enemies (take casting energy into consideration) you can attack, which I personally don't think is enough for 300 Energy, so

17 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Assassin's Grace - 25 energy, 25 energy per strike, Toggle:

I think we should increase the Casting Energy to 30 (leaving 270 Energy) and make each Melee Attack cost 20 per strike (13.5 attacks)

It's difficult, because there's not much you can do, but...

 

_{And Ash Prime can max a total of 445 Energy with Primed Flow and the Arcane Locust Helmet, giving him 20.75 attacks after the initial 30 Energy Cast . Probably even more with more Arcanes  from TLoR ;)}

 

Edited August 3, 2016 by PickleMonster21

[Arxfiend]

2 minutes ago, PickleMonster21 said:

Ash, at max rank with a Max Flow has 300 Energy. Now, assuming that no enemies you kill drop any Energy Orbs, that's 11  enemies (take casting energy into consideration) you can attack, which I personally don't think is enough for 300 Energy, so

I think we should increase the Casting Energy to 30 (leaving 270 Energy) and make each Melee Attack cost 20 per strike (13.5 attacks)

It's difficult, because there's not much you can do, but...

 

I still don't like the idea of it, really. I don't see this as an assassin-type ability either. Too few, and too slow.

Edited August 3, 2016 by H2K3

[PickleMonster21]

2 minutes ago, H2K3 said:

I still don't like the idea of it, really. I don't see this as an assassin-type ability either. Too few, and too slow.

Don't worry. Neither do I. But I'm trying to improve a suggestion is all :P Maybe it could evolve into something decent. Who knows?

[BlackCoMerc]

3 minutes ago, H2K3 said:

I still don't like the idea of it, really. I don't see this as an assassin-type ability either. Too few, and too slow.

The idea is to enable a few, powerful, killing strikes. Assassin's strikes. One kill for every swing of the blades.

This isn't intended to be another Exalted or Hysteria, perpetual melee replacement mode. Toggle on, prioritize and kill.

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

Make it dependent on what The camera can actually see at the time of the strike. That way, it rewards positioning and precision.

[Askell91]

I don't want another power like this... excal / wukong / mesa ect ect ect... we have enough.

[Arxfiend]

1 minute ago, BlackCoMerc said:

The idea is to enable a few, powerful, killing strikes. Assassin's strikes. One kill for every swing of the blades.

This isn't intended to be another Exalted or Hysteria, perpetual melee replacement mode. Toggle on, prioritize and kill.

Bladestorm is already more efficient. 100 energy for up to 18 kills.

[BlackCoMerc]

9 minutes ago, H2K3 said:

Bladestorm is already more efficient. 100 energy for up to 18 kills.

True enough.

In all fairness, it's also:

No fun to watch (because "use" isn't even what you're doing here)

And utterly overpowered.

[SinergyX]

 

Quote

DEs own (awful) suggestion of just summoning assassin clones

Whats wrong with that? Instead of you jumping around, you get 2-3 clones doing it for you, i love that way.

But yet another toggle-melee-forced frame? Another one to put on the shelve. Ash is a stealthy assasin, not a dagger whielding bezerker.

[PotatoTrapdoor]

The only gripe I have with this is the energy cost per attack. If it were lowered to about 15, then I would be all for this. It seems different enough from Excal/Valk/Wukong's Ultimates to actually be interesting.

[Arrendee]

1 hour ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Assassin's Grace - 25 energy, 25 energy per strike, Toggle

My opinion, very bad idea.. With this, you're removing Ash's AoE potential completely..

[main_antagonist]

45 minutes ago, Askell91 said:

I don't want another power like this... excal / wukong / mesa ect ect ect... we have enough.

Then what would you prefer?

[Nazrethim]

32 minutes ago, BlackCoMerc said:

No fun to watch (because "use" isn't even what you're doing here)

And utterly overpowered.

Take out the attack speed mods from your melee weapon and enjoy the show (because it's (P) Fury, Berserker or Quickening that cause Bladestorm to look so camera scr*wing)

It's not overpowered, it's efficient. Needs works? yes, Overpowered? nope.

7 minutes ago, SinergyX said:

 

Whats wrong with that? Instead of you jumping around, you get 2-3 clones doing it for you, i love that way.

But yet another toggle-melee-forced frame? Another one to put on the shelve. Ash is a stealthy assasin, not a dagger whielding bezerker.

That's not interactive.

Ash IS a melee frame, DE just needs to make stanced bladestorm require precision and not mindless E-spam like EB or Hysteria.

[main_antagonist]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

Ash IS a melee frame

Shuriken are thrown weapons he uses mixed attack methods.

[Arrendee]

2 minutes ago, main_antagonist said:

Then what would you prefer?

To end the nerf fest.. Frame diversity is one the games biggest selling points.. You kind of kill it if all frames and their abilities are the same..

[Nazrethim]

2 minutes ago, main_antagonist said:

Shuriken are thrown weapons he uses mixed attack methods.

Smoke Screen boosts melee damage while active

Teleport moves you into melee range to do a finisher MELEE attack

Bladestorm makes Ash and his clones teleport from enemy to enemy with a MELEE WEAPON doing MELEE finishers.

Also: Ash has a high health pool (which is something he shares with the other melee frames), a high sprint speed (perfect for running towards the enemy) and his passive boost bleed damage (primarily associated with Swords as few ranged weapons rely on bleeds)

[main_antagonist]

1 minute ago, Arrendee said:

To end the nerf fest.. Frame diversity is one the games biggest selling points.. You kind of kill it if all frames and their abilities are the same..

I honestly can't think of any abilities that are exactly the same, similar perhaps but not the same.

Teleport and switch teleport are similar but different.

Radial blind and Prism both blind but one does damage with lasers I'm not even gonna touch base on Oberon there.

Peace maker, Exhaled Blade, Hysteria, Artemis Bow, Primal Fury? All different weapons all function differently if the Devs or the community honestly believed what you were saying they'd have stopped after releasing Excalibur. 

You're generalising it too much.

[main_antagonist]

4 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Smoke Screen boosts melee damage while active

Teleport moves you into melee range to do a finisher MELEE attack

Bladestorm makes Ash and his clones teleport from enemy to enemy with a MELEE WEAPON doing MELEE finishers.

Also: Ash has a high health pool (which is something he shares with the other melee frames), a high sprint speed (perfect for running towards the enemy) and his passive boost bleed damage (primarily associated with Swords as few ranged weapons rely on bleeds)

So using AOE stun smoke bombs to go invisible doesn't have any CC application?

Also you completely disregarded what I said about Shuriken.

8 minutes ago, main_antagonist said:

Shuriken are thrown weapons he uses mixed attack methods.

Shuriken are not melee they are projectiles.

[Arrendee]

5 minutes ago, main_antagonist said:

I honestly can't think of any abilities that are exactly the same, similar perhaps but not the same.

Teleport and switch teleport are similar but different.

Radial blind and Prism both blind but one does damage with lasers I'm not even gonna touch base on Oberon there.

Peace maker, Exhaled Blade, Hysteria, Artemis Bow, Primal Fury? All different weapons all function differently if the Devs or the community honestly believed what you were saying they'd have stopped after releasing Excalibur. 

You're generalising it too much.

I understand what you are saying, there are a lot of abilities that are similar, but not all.. I don't think you're getting the point though.. Bladestorm is unique, so we take something that is unique and nerf it or change the ability completely? So unique is bad? Diversity is bad? So what we want is to take the Warframe abilities that are unique and make them similar to other Warframe abilities? Sounds fun..  

[Nazrethim]

8 minutes ago, main_antagonist said:

So using AOE stun smoke bombs to go invisible doesn't have any CC application?

Also you completely disregarded what I said about Shuriken.

Shuriken are not melee they are projectiles.

-Yeah, it  CCs enemies... in melee range.

-Shuriken is a traditional ninja killing toolin the hollywood ninja theme at least, it was more of a distraction in reality, not really for actual combat. I recomend you to watch this:

Spoiler

 

 

[Nazrethim]

5 minutes ago, Arrendee said:

I understand what you are saying, there are a lot of abilities that are similar, but not all.. I don't think you're getting the point though.. Bladestorm is unique, so we take something that is unique and nerf it or change the ability completely? So unique is bad? Diversity is bad? So what we want is to take the Warframe abilities that are unique and make them similar to other Warframe abilities? Sounds fun..  

But we are talking about Ash, his wristblades were the FIRST warframe weapons, fans asked for them to be usable way before Excalibur got reworked, and continued to ask for it after it.

[main_antagonist]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

-Yeah, it  CCs enemies... in melee range.

-Shuriken is a traditional ninja killing toolin the hollywood ninja theme at least, it was more of a distraction in reality, not really for actual combat. I recomend you to watch this:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

No need for me to watch it I stated he uses 'mixed attack methods' and you kept insisting he is a "MELEE" frame without taking all factors into consideration in capitals see your quotation below ... I was simply emphasising you can't claim he is 100% melee if he's running around throwing Smoke bombs ... throwing Shurkien. Throwing isn't a melee action so that is why I say he uses mixed attack methods.

17 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Smoke Screen boosts melee damage while active

Teleport moves you into melee range to do a finisher MELEE attack

Bladestorm makes Ash and his clones teleport from enemy to enemy with a MELEE WEAPON doing MELEE finishers.

Also: Ash has a high health pool (which is something he shares with the other melee frames), a high sprint speed (perfect for running towards the enemy) and his passive boost bleed damage (primarily associated with Swords as few ranged weapons rely on bleeds)