SicSlaver Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Until DE can distinguish the difference between Finishers done through unalerted stealth means and due to abilities opening enemies up to Finishers, I'm suggesting a change to Covert Lethality. As it is now, it can be used to cheese enemies into instant death and gets rid of some of the challenge. Instead of instant kill on Finishers, how about giving the user 5 seconds or less invisibility at max rank? Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 yeahno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) 1 minute ago, Prime said: yeahno Any other suggestions instead of invisibility, then? Maybe just a temporary melee damage buff? Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Just now, SicSlaver said: Any other suggestions instead of invisibility, then? leave it as it is :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 Just now, Prime said: leave it as it is :P I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. It really and literally kills some of the challenge events that DE rolls out at times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrah Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 u have options how to play.. ...if u wish challenge remove all mods and play sortie solo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, ashrah said: u have options how to play.. ...if u wish challenge remove all mods and play sortie solo That's not really a reasonable solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazrethim Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Considering BOTH effects of CL are what made Single daggers useful to beging with, I say No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tifanator Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I think the fact that you can only use it with a handful of abilities/frames and on weapons that would otherwise be pretty bad make it balanced enough. Sure it can be cheesy, but you don't have to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 11 minutes ago, SicSlaver said: Until DE can distinguish the difference between Finishers done through unalerted stealth means and due to abilities opening enemies up to Finishers, I'm suggesting a change to Covert Lethality. As it is now, it can be used cheese enemies into instant death and gets rid of some of the challenge. Instead of instant kill on Finishers, how about giving the user 5 seconds or less invisibility at max rank? 4 minutes ago, ashrah said: u have options how to play.. ...if u wish challenge remove all mods and play sortie solo I would have to agree with ashrah. Since it is a mod that can only be equipped on daggers, you have the option of not using it at all. If it were something inherent to daggers, then I could maybe understand where you're coming from. It seems the reason that some cheesy mods exist is to combat the cheese that is enemy armor scaling. If you want a challenge, swap out the covert lethality mod for a finisher mod. No insta-kill and you maintain the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 I do really like the 100 base damage increase, but the instant kill is kind of an overkill when some abilities can open enemies up for Finishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heliozzenn Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Well... no Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 3 minutes ago, SicSlaver said: I do really like the 100 base damage increase, but the instant kill is kind of an overkill when some abilities can open enemies up for Finishers. The other option is to not use the abilities that open up enemies to finishers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Asdeft Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) What is so wrong with some warframe abilities suddenly having synergy with their dagger. It is effectively replacing what could just be a Shadow Step Broken War with Blood Count combo instead, which would be arguably more powerful in general. Covert Lethality adds a bit of depth to someone like inaros or Ivara that can choose to execute some of the more powerful enemies. If this mod didnt work with these abilities, then we would be back to useless daggers. Broken mods for broken enemies right? Edited August 5, 2016 by (PS4)Asdeft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 Just now, (PS4)abbacephas said: The other option is to not use the abilities that open up enemies to finishers. As I've said...that doesn't really solve the issue in a game about co-op. Think about it reasonably. Like I do do everything that people have suggested, but it's not like it'd be okay if they released a Warframe or weapon that just wins the mission for you without trying. I can optionally not use it, but then why bother with balances in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_enon Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 All daggers should have innate Covert Lethality. Why would anybody use a dagger otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 2 minutes ago, (PS4)Asdeft said: What is so wrong with some warframe abilities suddenly having synergy with their dagger. It is effectively replacing what could just be a Shadow Step Broken War with Blood Count combo instead, which would be arguably more powerful in general. Covert Lethality adds a bit of depth to someone like inaros or Ivara that can choose to execute some of the more powerful enemies. If this mod did work with these abilities, then we would be back to useless daggers. Broken mods for broken enemies right? Then why bother playing the game? The problem lies in that you can use it on all enemies without repercussion and not just powerful ones. I have no issue with the synergy, but instant kill is too much. That's why I'm hoping for a different bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Asdeft Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Just now, SicSlaver said: As I've said...that doesn't really solve the issue in a game about co-op. Think about it reasonably. Like I do do everything that people have suggested, but it's not like it'd be okay if they released a Warframe or weapon that just wins the mission for you without trying. I can optionally not use it, but then why bother with balances in the first place? If this specifically somehow bothers you, then play solo. I have never even seen people using this to "cheese whole missions" because it takes forever to actually execute enemies when the Vaykor Hek and Synoid Simulor are the best at everything. Honestly, if someone is putting groups of enemies to sleep and going through 1 by 1 and executing them, good on them for having fun with the mod lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragazer Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) Finishers only affect only one enemy at a time, with the way enemies come at you in hordes using just CL daggers is extremely inefficient. plus nullifiers negate the abilities that open enemies up to finishers, so its not as op as you would think. Edited August 5, 2016 by Dragazer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirukaChan Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Covert Lethality is fine for now. It might deserve another look after Damage 3.0 drops, though, depending on what kinds of changes are coming with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor_Grayfield Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 I vote a very resounding "no" to this suggestion. There's nothing cheesy about closing the distance for a finisher kill. The damage is very large, yes, but it's on one target at a time, and then it requires another set of strategic moves by the player in order to do it again on the next target. With hordes upon hordes of enemies, this is not overpowered in any way. And why do you think instant kills via finishers are exclusive to the Covert Lethality mod? I never use it, and me and Ash/Ivara/Inaros can insta-kill heavily armored targets in sorties with any decent melee weapon and some properly placed corrosive damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SicSlaver Posted August 5, 2016 Author Share Posted August 5, 2016 (edited) 7 minutes ago, (PS4)Asdeft said: If this specifically somehow bothers you, then play solo. I have never even seen people using this to "cheese whole missions" because it takes forever to actually execute enemies when the Vaykor Hek and Synoid Simulor are the best at everything. Honestly, if someone is putting groups of enemies to sleep and going through 1 by 1 and executing them, good on them for having fun with the mod lol. Oh, remember that Gift of the Lotus mission with enemies starting at level 100? They've done events like this in the past. I really don't think telling people to play solo is a reasonable solution in a game that requires co-op. If that were the solution to everything, then balance changes wouldn't be necessary. Edited August 5, 2016 by SicSlaver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAn0n Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 "Insta killing trash mobs slowly and one at a time while leaving yourself exposed to counter attacks is OP guys" Oh my god. CL is perfect as it is. Literally its ONE advantage is insta killing cheap trash mobs that one shot you from across the map and cut out 99% of every other damage source you have while having 100k+ HP. Leave it alone lest you want daggers to become absolutely worthless again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)abbacephas Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 10 minutes ago, SicSlaver said: As I've said...that doesn't really solve the issue in a game about co-op. Think about it reasonably. Like I do do everything that people have suggested, but it's not like it'd be okay if they released a Warframe or weapon that just wins the mission for you without trying. I can optionally not use it, but then why bother with balances in the first place? I understand that, but why impose something you aren't keen about on other players? And as others have pointed out, it only works on 1 enemy at a time and the animation time can take a while to complete. It's not something that can be used for the entirety of the mission and, as I see it, is more of an "oh $h!t" type mod than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_enon Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Just now, SicSlaver said: Oh, remember that Gift of the Lotus mission with enemies starting at level 100? They've done events like this in the past. I really don't think telling people to play solo is a reasonable solution in a game that requires co-op. You forgot the latest gift of the lotus, enemies starting at level 9999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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