FPS Drops After Silver Grove Update

[QueenOfAllLGBTBees]

Just now, [DE]Dmitri said:

Hi Vaktezraj, 

Thanks for the detailed info. You wouldn't happen to have an EE.log of this, would you? It would be very helpful if you could send us a support ticket with a copy of an EE.log taken immediately after you have had this issue occur. Also, if you could type a message like "slowfps" in chat as you are in the process of experiencing the ~13fps then that should help us track down the issue more quickly. 

 

I don't have one specifically of this issue, but I will extract a copy of my current EE.log as well as a log that goes as quickly as possible to a problem site, like Stöfler Crater or a Void mission.

I've been looking over the log myself, and a number of problem sites arise: resource loads are taking far longer than they should, and report a concerningly high volume of wasted memory. There are 29 instances of wasted memory exceeding 50%. An example below:

Spoiler

1983.322 Sys [Info]: LOAD_MESSAGE received .
1983.322 Sys [Info]: Client ready for load [Heap: 628,849,872/898,760,704 Footprint: 2,761,650,176 Handles: 713]
1983.322 Sys [Info]: Level: /Lotus/Levels/Proc/Hub/RelayStationHubMain/COAJhDJe1XOc5znOokA.lp, id: 2
1983.335 Sys [Info]: Stats uploaded
1983.365 Sys [Info]: Cleaned 5,302 resource-objects
1983.365 Sys [Info]: Pre-load flush took 1.66ms [Heap: 617,539,920/898,760,704 Footprint: 2,761,912,320 Handles: 713]
1983.365 Sys [Info]: Budget overrun updating texture streaming (9.29 ms)
1983.365 Sys [Info]: Loaded 0/1 resources at 1349 ms/frame
1983.366 Sys [Info]: Finished load of RenderTarget batch [0s and 0 frames at 0 ms/frame avg, 0 ms/update peak]
1983.707 Sys [Info]: Finished load of ShaderPermutation batch [0.340s and 4 frames at 85 ms/frame avg, 0.2 ms/update peak]
1983.822 Sys [Info]: Finished load of Script batch [0.114s and 4 frames at 28 ms/frame avg, 0.2 ms/update peak]
1983.977 Sys [Info]: Finished load of ProceduralMaterial ApexEmitterAsset ApexParticleIosAsset AnimScene SkeletalMesh ApexTurbulenceAsset ApexSpriteIofxAsset batch [0.155s and 2 frames at 77 ms/frame avg, 0.5 ms/update peak]
1983.977 Sys [Info]: Finished load of batch [0s and 0 frames at 0 ms/frame avg, 0 ms/update peak]
1984.158 Sys [Info]: Finished load of FlashRGBATexture Texture batch [0.181s and 4 frames at 45 ms/frame avg, 0.5 ms/update peak]
1984.272 Sys [Info]: Finished load of FlashMovie batch [0.113s and 4 frames at 28 ms/frame avg, 0.3 ms/update peak]
1984.272 Sys [Info]: Resource load completed in one pass and 1.8s (inherited 17679 of 17717)
1984.272 Sys [Info]: 
1984.272 Sys [Info]:     Loaded: 720,896 B (11 pages) at 0 MB/s (0.001s)
1984.272 Sys [Info]:     Decomp: 56,095 B -> 110,371 B (1.9:1) at 0 MB/s (0.004s)
1984.272 Sys [Info]:     Seeked: 18x (1.80s)
1984.272 Sys [Info]:     Wasted: 664,801B (92.2%)
1984.272 Sys [Info]: 
1984.272 Sys [Info]: [Heap: 617,488,192/898,760,704 Footprint: 2,527,039,488 Handles: 713]

I'll have a new EE.log available shortly along with a copy of this EE.log.

[QueenOfAllLGBTBees]

31 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

I recently updated my Bios to the latest one and well same stuff happening overall, Even tried to update GPU bios but couldn't find updates.

I still get the same issues as always, so any of you guys know if DE DEVS are looking into this?

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

As evidenced by the request for EE.log files, these issues are excruciatingly underreported in the appropriate ways. Submit an EE.log with this issue happening. They need to be able to isolate which specific elements of code are behaving badly, and the only way to do that is by compiling a large number of logs and using detectivework to figure out which scripts in the game are behaving improperly. Because our error logs don't include potentially informative data that could also violate user privacy, they have to get multiple logs across multiple users to figure out what is the specific issue needing examination.

 DE staff is currently split between debugging and heavy content creation, so there's far less staff actively running developer versions of the game to sleuth it out or even detect this problem. That's not something we or they can help, and the way WE can help in lieu of this detection shortfall is by speaking to DE staff here and then providing the necessary data they would need to solve this problem.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Vaktezraj

[Nep_Blanc]

Just now, Vaktezraj said:

As evidenced by the request for EE.log files, these issues are excruciatingly underreported in the appropriate ways. Submit an EE.log with this issue happening. They need to be able to isolate which specific elements of code are behaving badly, and the only way to do that is by compiling a large number of logs and using detectivework to figure out which scripts in the game are behaving improperly. Because our error logs don't include potentially informative data that could also violate user privacy, they have to get multiple logs across multiple users to figure out what is the specific issue needing examination.

 DE staff is currently split between debugging and heavy content creation, so there's far less staff actively running developer versions of the game to sleuth it out or even detect this problem. That's not something we or they can help, and the way WE can help is by speaking to DE staff here and then providing the necessary data they would need to solve this problem.

Already did ages ago nothing came up according to the support so??????

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[QueenOfAllLGBTBees]

Just now, TheRoaringLion said:

Already did ages ago nothing came up according to the support so??????

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

Then make a new support ticket, reporting the continued presence of this issue. Maybe they won't tell you specifically in the ticket that they've figured out the issue, but there's also other mechanical problems that [DE] can't diagnose. That's why they're currently looking at power allocation as a potential problem, as some recent updates OS-wise have included power efficiency code that can mess with the quality of the game.

[[DE]Linkski]

9 minutes ago, Vaktezraj said:

I've been looking over the log myself, and a number of problem sites arise: resource loads are taking far longer than they should, and report a concerningly high volume of wasted memory. There are 29 instances of wasted memory exceeding 50%. An example below:

It looks like this particular message occurred as you were in the process of loading into a Relay. Ideally this should not result in a negative impact in gameplay performance because by the time you've entered the level those files will have already been loaded. Resource loads are definitely something we are taking into consideration though.

[QueenOfAllLGBTBees]

Just now, [DE]Dmitri said:

It looks like this particular message occurred as you were in the process of loading into a Relay. Ideally this should not result in a negative impact in gameplay performance because by the time you've entered the level those files will have already been loaded. Resource loads are definitely something we are taking into consideration though.

Thanks so much for your timely response! I've been dealing with particularly long load times going anywhere since TSG rolled out, usually running 10-15 seconds, even when I'm hosting. The Relay just behaves very very strangely, as it has a higher FPS than cooperative missions, but moves the fastest whenever I'm moving between specific rooms of the level. Standing still in any room slows from 60fps in room loading to 30fps.

[Nep_Blanc]

2 minutes ago, Vaktezraj said:

Then make a new support ticket, reporting the continued presence of this issue. Maybe they won't tell you specifically in the ticket that they've figured out the issue, but there's also other mechanical problems that [DE] can't diagnose. That's why they're currently looking at power allocation as a potential problem, as some recent updates OS-wise have included power efficiency code that can mess with the quality of the game.

Have everything on the MAX performance preset, OCed my CPU and GPU's as not recommended by DE but still.
GPU's are fine as is my processor heat wise so no problems there.

1 minute ago, [DE]Dmitri said:

It looks like this particular message occurred as you were in the process of loading into a Relay. Ideally this should not result in a negative impact in gameplay performance because by the time you've entered the level those files will have already been loaded. Resource loads are definitely something we are taking into consideration though.

it could be that we have issues like this that there are too much textures loading in wile there are a lot of NPC's Spawning but even while they spawned the performance dips lower then preferred, also GPU focused coding/optimization could help a lot for medium to high end systems.
I got a decently mid-high range PC so no problems with overall performance on my end.
Also while streaming my setup on Twitch as explained a couple of times should reduce CPU bottlenecks and overall CPU load.
Twitch: https://www.twitch.tv/theroaringlion

SPECS:

• MSI Z97 Gaming 5 Motherboard.
• Intel Core I7 4790k CPU running on 4.6 GHz OC.
• Antec Kuhler H2O 920 Water Cooling.
• MSI 4GB D5 X GTX 970 Gaming 4G Graphics cards in SLI.
• Crucial 32 GB DDR3-1600 RAM DIMM Memory.
• 250GB Crucial SSD .
• 4x1TB Western Digital Blue HDD in Raid 0.
• Cooler Master G750M, 750 Watt PSU.

 

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[QueenOfAllLGBTBees]

19 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

Have everything on the MAX performance preset, OCed my CPU and GPU's as not recommended by DE but still.
GPU's are fine as is my processor heat wise so no problems there.

it could be that we have issues like this that there are too much textures loading in wile there are a lot of NPC's Spawning but even while they spawned the performance dips lower then preferred, also GPU focused coding/optimization could help a lot for medium to high end systems.
I got a decently mid-high range PC so no problems with overall performance on my end.
Also while streaming my setup on Twitch as explained a couple of times should reduce CPU bottlenecks and overall CPU load.

Chao, The Roaring Lion

Keep in mind that Warframe is deliberately built so it can run on *tons* of midrange computers. This is a fiscally smart choice on their part.

This doesn't *seem* intuitive, but not always will that exhaustive effort in keeping the game suited for a wide variety of machines scale up to high-end builds. Because of a lovely corporate concept involving intellectual property laws, [DE] will not be able to get their hands on unique data for every single type of GPU and CPU from the manufacturers; as a relatively small-scale company with their own engine and programming IP, optimization code has to be written basically by hand. Purchasing examples of optimization code to reverse-engineer is not cost-effective either.

This basically means that the software [DE] writes is deliberately more blunt in order to be properly read by a vast assortment of computer parts. Giving them time to work out the chinks is important, and the best way we can help is by providing them with the physical evidence they need to actually figure out what to do.

Edited September 21, 2016 by Vaktezraj
removed user advertising from quote

[[DE]Linkski]

We are taking all potential culprits into consideration so the more information that you guys can provide the better. We have been having a difficult time reproducing a number of issues mentioned in this thread which is why having you send your EE.logs continues to be a very big help. We definitely appreciate those of you who have done so already!

It is also important to be clear as to what exactly your issues with performance are. That way we can address them more efficiently. 

Another key thing to consider is your own setup. While your system might be able to run [x] game at a very high framerate, that game may not be utilizing a certain piece of tech (for example, PhysX) in the same way that Warframe does. Do you use multiple monitors? How does Warframe run with only 1 monitor? Do you use SLI? How does it run on 1 GPU? There are many variables to take into consideration, and the more people who test these theories the more likely we are to come up with a solution that everyone can benefit from. 

Additionally, we are not responsible for how your hardware performs if you decide to overclock it. In fact, we highly encourage you do not do this as it introduces variables that are likely out of our control (such as too much power consumption). 

[Nep_Blanc]

1 minute ago, Vaktezraj said:

Keep in mind that Warframe is deliberately built so it can run on *tons* of midrange computers. This is a fiscally smart choice on their part.

This doesn't *seem* intuitive, but not always will that exhaustive effort in keeping the game suited for a wide variety of machines scale up to high-end builds. Because of a lovely corporate concept involving intellectual property laws, [DE] will not be able to get their hands on unique data for every single type of GPU and CPU from the manufacturers; as a relatively small-scale company with their own engine and programming IP, optimization code has to be written basically by hand. Purchasing examples of optimization code to reverse-engineer is not cost-effective either.

This basically means that the software [DE] writes is deliberately more blunt in order to be properly read by a vast assortment of computer parts. Giving them time to work out the chinks is important, and the best way we can help is by providing them with the physical evidence they need to actually figure out what to do.

don't know where you pulled this but WF is backed by Nvidia if you didn't know.
Also optimizing code with Nvidia is not easy peasy but at least doable.
AMD code is mostly open source so its more easy for the developer to code for that too.
CPU's today are so similar AMD or Intel are almost the same in architecture OMG the old licensing days.
AMD got the intel architecture AMD built upon that to make X64 and well licenced to intel :P

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[[DE]Linkski]

Please try to remain on topic. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by [DE]Dmitri

[Nep_Blanc]

Just now, [DE]Dmitri said:

Please try to remain on topic. 

Em what does that forum handle have to do with it? and yes this is also pretty darn on topic actually, but I guess not then?

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[[DE]Linkski]

1 minute ago, TheRoaringLion said:

Em what does that forum handle have to do with it? and yes this is also pretty darn on topic actually, but I guess not then?

This thread was created to discuss performance issues that have appeared since the Silver Grove update. 
It was not created to discuss licensing. 

[Nep_Blanc]

4 minutes ago, [DE]Dmitri said:

This thread was created to discuss performance issues that have appeared since the Silver Grove update. 
It was not created to discuss licensing. 

sorry to elaborate on that it was not about licensing at all it just to elaborate that you guys have abilities to optimize code together with Nvidia nothing more. Also for the other licensing is just a little Intel AMD fact.
 

Neither the less sorry then for the #off-topic.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

Edited September 21, 2016 by TheRoaringLion
fixed a unattended part of the answer

[QueenOfAllLGBTBees]

[DE]Dmitri, is it acceptable if instances of slow FPS are marked in clan chat, rather than squad? Either way, I will be uploading an EE.log of a 30m Void Survival, where certain instances of FPS decreases occur. Additional tests for other faction levels to follow.

 

Additionally experienced are significant (10 fps decrease from an in-mission average of 37) drops for the duration of Focus ability use.

[[DE]Linkski]

4 minutes ago, Vaktezraj said:

[DE]Dmitri, is it acceptable if instances of slow FPS are marked in clan chat, rather than squad? Either way, I will be uploading an EE.log of a 30m Void Survival, where certain instances of FPS decreases occur. Additional tests for other faction levels to follow.

 

Additionally experienced are significant (10 fps decrease from an in-mission average of 37) drops for the duration of Focus ability use.

Yeah, that is fine. Anything you can add is greatly appreciated. Also please be sure to mention in your ticket what you mean by "FPS decreases" (how much did it decrease, how long did it last, etc). Thanks!

[Nep_Blanc]

1 minute ago, [DE]Dmitri said:

Yeah, that is fine. Anything you can add is greatly appreciated. Also please be sure to mention in your ticket what you mean by "FPS decreases" (how much did it decrease, how long did it last, etc). Thanks!

is it also good to add a stream while doing this? because especially in some instances its better to display immediately then using text.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[[DE]Linkski]

Just now, TheRoaringLion said:

is it also good to add a stream while doing this? because especially in some instances its better to display immediately then using text.

Absolutely! We encourage it. If you can show us exactly what the problem is with a video, and send us a log as well, then it can really help us pinpoint exactly what is happening. Maybe even type a message in the game chat, then tell us on the stream "I just typed 'slowperf'" for some of the more significant performance drops. 

[Nep_Blanc]

2 minutes ago, [DE]Dmitri said:

Absolutely! We encourage it. If you can show us exactly what the problem is with a video, and send us a log as well, then it can really help us pinpoint exactly what is happening. Maybe even type a message in the game chat, then tell us on the stream "I just typed 'slowperf'" for some of the more significant performance drops. 

Inspecting my OBS settings I can Record files and Stream at the same time so If you guys need the later smaller made file of the stream I can offer it with a link but it takes maybe long to download. As I use a WD my cloud for this.

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[[DE]Linkski]

Just now, TheRoaringLion said:

Inspecting my OBS settings I can Record files and Stream at the same time so If you guys need the later smaller made file of the stream I can offer it with a link but it takes maybe long to download. As I use a WD my cloud for this.

Chao, The Roaring Lion

That is totally up to you. We're fine with either a video file or an archived stream. Anything that can allow us to see the issue. 

[Nep_Blanc]

6 minutes ago, [DE]Dmitri said:

That is totally up to you. We're fine with either a video file or an archived stream. Anything that can allow us to see the issue. 

Alright that is set I will record it in high file bit-rate and compress it later but still enough quality to review it.

 

Chao, The Roaring Lion

[Pyus]

5 hours ago, [DE]Dmitri said:

Hi Pyus,

Could you please submit a support ticket with a copy of your EE.log + DxDiag after you've had this issue occur? Hopefully we can use this information to see what is going on in the engine during these framerate drops. 

• https://clips.twitch.tv/pyus/WanderingCormorantDuDudu

Also, streaming a mission now:

• https://www.twitch.tv/pyus
•  

EDIT - this clip shows exactly what my issue is:

• https://clips.twitch.tv/pyus/SuccessfulMartenFailFish
• barely playable - https://clips.twitch.tv/pyus/ImpossibleDoveKevinTurtle

It is worse on AW

• https://clips.twitch.tv/pyus/ExcitedPorcupineANELE

System specs (already uploaded dxdiag):

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 860  @ 2.80GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.8GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660  
Chip type: GeForce GTX 660
Display Memory: 4036 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1988 MB
Shared Memory: 2048 MB

Edited September 21, 2016 by Pyus

[QueenOfAllLGBTBees]

Will collect and submit new EE.log now that TSG U3 is out. Fingers crossed...

[QueenOfAllLGBTBees]

Unfortunately, certain components of the Liset level now behave erratically - FPS alternates between 103 and 62 in semi-regular bursts, while modding and accessing the Arsenal keep FPS consistently below 60.

Otherwise excited to see how the new content behaves as soon as hotfix for other issues is released.

[[DE]Linkski]

43 minutes ago, Pyus said:

Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7 CPU 860  @ 2.80GHz (8 CPUs), ~2.8GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 660  
Chip type: GeForce GTX 660
Display Memory: 4036 MB
Dedicated Memory: 1988 MB
Shared Memory: 2048 MB

Thank you for these videos. This is extremely helpful. Just to confirm, you're saying that you can experience these performance issues even when you're not streaming on Twitch? We would like to rule out streaming as a potential culprit. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by [DE]Dmitri