Rhino Iron Skin + Health Conversion.

[Jencent]

But earlier shockers and taking damage in 3 after IS is cast - didn't consume stack of HPconv. I saw it afterwards, when some patch passed on.

@NeonNemesis, thx, some one at last heard me.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Jencent

[NeonNemesis]

11 hours ago, zehne said:

The description reads (As quoted from in-game):

• No where in game does this say that Ironskin or warding halo prevent stacks from being consumed.
• No where in game does this say that stacks will be consumed during the invulnerability period
• No where in game does this say that shock eximus AoE's are the exception to the other statements that are not stated anywhere in game.

My point is simple, the OP found out something that other PEOPLE who contributed to the WIKI did not find out.  While this may make the OP sad that his niche build has a flaw in it, it in no way contradicts the description of the mod that exists inside the game.  Add it as a note to the wiki if you think others should know this.  It's just another drawback to using Health Conversion.  Certain mods have downsides, the OP just found one more.

• Yet another reason for many people to believe that using Health Conversion is a silly thing to do.

If you wanna go that way then what in game says:

-Iron Skin: Rhino hardens his skin, insulating himself from all damage.

in·su·late

  (ĭn′sə-lāt′, ĭns′yə-)

tr.v. in·su·lat·ed, in·su·lat·ing, in·su·lates

1. To prevent the passage of heat, electricity, or sound into or out of, especially by surrounding or covering with anonconducting material: insulate an attic.

2. To cause to be in a detached or isolated position. See Synonyms at isolate.

So if you want to ignore contributions to wiki, or the theory I came with to explain the absorb part, then even that part is bugged because the in-game discription says Rhino is INSULATED from all damage as in not taking damage, if he isn't taking damage at all how the heck the "taking damage will consume a stack after 3s" is even happening in the 1st place? It talks about an invunerable phase but at no point says that phase is diferent in damage prevention or CC immunity from regular Iron Skin, and yet we know it is because it pops HC stacks and you get CC. 

I'm not even touching the fact that you keep bringing the "using HC is silly" part 

11 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

The embodiment of contradiction

At least I'm trying to answer the TC question rather than to tell him to play the meta when he is asking a totally diferent question, this is the equivalent of a guy placing a match on a cup of water and the water catches fire and he ask to other people with some knowlege in science why that happens and they answer him that he's doing wrong he should have set fire on wood instead. 

If you guys have no intention to answer his question you shouldn't even post in the first place, instead go on to create a thread about how to build Rhino, link it to this thread and say he is doing it wrong by not following the meta, but at least let him get his answer without having the thread flooded with play the meta comments, some of us are actually interested in how the game mechanics work.

 

[RealPandemonium]

3 hours ago, NeonNemesis said:

At least I'm trying to answer the TC question rather than to tell him to play the meta when he is asking a totally diferent question, this is the equivalent of a guy placing a match on a cup of water and the water catches fire and he ask to other people with some knowlege in science why that happens and they answer him that he's doing wrong he should have set fire on wood instead. 

If you guys have no intention to answer his question you shouldn't even post in the first place, instead go on to create a thread about how to build Rhino, link it to this thread and say he is doing it wrong by not following the meta, but at least let him get his answer without having the thread flooded with play the meta comments, some of us are actually interested in how the game mechanics work.

 

Your fixation on "meta" discussion is a distraction to the purpose of the thread.

On-topic, I can corroborate OP's findings.  This thread is a clusterfuck, but I will create a bug report in the appropriate subforum.

[tnccs215]

3 hours ago, NeonNemesis said:

 At least I'm trying to answer the TC question rather than to tell him to play the meta when he is asking a totally diferent question, this is the equivalent of a guy placing a match on a cup of water and the water catches fire and he ask to other people with some knowlege in science why that happens and they answer him that he's doing wrong he should have set fire on wood instead. 

If you guys have no intention to answer his question you shouldn't even post in the first place, instead go on to create a thread about how to build Rhino, link it to this thread and say he is doing it wrong by not following the meta, but at least let him get his answer without having the thread flooded with play the meta comments, some of us are actually interested in how the game mechanics work.

 

The thing is, I dont really care about their question. Not because "it isn't the meta", but because it simply doesn't seem like a bug. Because we, unlike you (and, ironically, autistic people) are capable of understanding the subtleties, ambiguities and context dependent meanings of the expression "not being damaged". Because, while think himself isn't loosing health, iron skin is. And so, since something belonging to Rhino is taking damage, it doesn't feel contradictory that Health Conversion stacks get consumed.

Second: It is much more Interesting why would anyone use Health Conversion on Rhino, once why Im insisting on the question-- which was always deflected so far.

Third: It really isn't a priority bug. Since there are a thousand other cheaper and more effective ways to increase Iron Skin's health than using health conversion, we simply.... don't care that much, I guess?

[RealPandemonium]

21 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

The thing is, I dont really care about their question. Not because "it isn't the meta", but because it simply doesn't seem like a bug. Because we, unlike you (and, ironically, autistic people) are capable of understanding the subtleties, ambiguities and context dependent meanings of the expression "not being damaged". Because, while think himself isn't loosing health, iron skin is. And so, since something belonging to Rhino is taking damage, it doesn't feel contradictory that Health Conversion stacks get consumed.

Second: It is much more Interesting why would anyone use Health Conversion on Rhino, once why Im insisting on the question-- which was always deflected so far.

Third: It really isn't a priority bug. Since there are a thousand other cheaper and more effective ways to increase Iron Skin's health than using health conversion, we simply.... don't care that much, I guess?

It's definitely a bug, and the reason to use HC on Rhino would be to boost IS HP, even though something like Ironclad Charge would be far more effective.  

It isn't a priority bug, and the OP/Neon are unnecessarily dramatic and confounding in their presentation.  That's why I made a separate cut-and-dry thread for it in the PC Bugs forum.  Lets let this thread die now, IMO.

Edited September 8, 2016 by RealPandemonium

[tnccs215]

1 minute ago, RealPandemonium said:

It's definitely a bug, and the reason to use HC on Rhino would be to boost IS HP, even though something like Ironclad Charge would be far more effective.  

oh, yes, I got that. My point was how is one going to obtain health orbs without Oberon/Nekros? The OP gave no answer, only deflecting the question.

 

3 minutes ago, RealPandemonium said:

It isn't a priority bug, and the OP/Neon are unnecessarily dramatic and confounding in their presentation.  That's why I made a separate cut-and-dry thread for it in the PC Bugs forum.  Lets let this thread die now, IMO.

Fair enough. Suppose I should apologise for contribute to the infantile mess this thread was.

[zehne]

3 hours ago, NeonNemesis said:

If you guys have no intention to answer his question

 

15 hours ago, zehne said:

the OP found out something that other PEOPLE who contributed to the WIKI did not find out.

He stated he didn't take hp or shield or ANY type of damage while under the effects of ironskin.  As it's already been pointed out, IRONSKIN takes damage. 

• WHY: the real question is why doesn't a health orb decay while under ironskin/warding halo
  • My guess is DE tied it to hp/shield damage, but it's always going to be speculation since we can't access the game code.
• HOW:my guess is that the shock eximus Aura is coded differently than enemy damage outputs
  • Does a stack get lost from Arc traps, I'm not intrigued enough to try it out, but if my WHY speculation is correct then maybe? (what about electric water hazards on derelict?)
• WHEN: I'm of the opinion that this has ALWAYS been the case with Health Conversion
  • Rhino's with health conversion are a rare occurrence
  • Health orbs in missions are a rare occurrence (rare resources  are more common than them)
  • Corpus Shock eximus are a rare occurrence
    • All these rare occurrences lead up to it taking a very long time for someone to notice that a mechanic bypasses this

There is no answer to be found here other than that.  Unless a developer who has access to the games code is intrigued and pressed enough to check it out, I think it's highly unlikely that the actual Why/how will be answered.

 

 

[RealPandemonium]

4 hours ago, tnccs215 said:

My point was how is one going to obtain health orbs without Oberon/Nekros? The OP gave no answer, only deflecting the question.

He probably plays with one and is doing the "I have secret tech original content do not steal" forum thing.

[jragonsoul]

On 9/8/2016 at 1:43 PM, tnccs215 said:

oh, yes, I got that. My point was how is one going to obtain health orbs without Oberon/Nekros? The OP gave no answer, only deflecting the question.

They drop in missions while playing. If you have IS up you don't worry about it being consumed when you grab them initially, the only question is do you let them damage you before using Iron skin the first time (Safer) or wait until you have the 3 orbs and have to recast (No too dangerous if you have Iron Shrapnel)? I always see extra health orbs on missions with containers playing Rhino, Nezha and other frames either Immune to damage or avoid it. Not a big mystery

[LascarCapable]

Mind the date please !