Relics, Ducats, Baro... farm and grind all week for 3 / 2 mods

[-AxHx-MDeero]

Hey,

today I found myself in the Relay at Baro and was wondering, why don't i have Ducats to spent?! That never happened to me in the old void system (this is not another thread about how bad the new system is, but I am agreeing with whomever thinks that, this is about the time we have to spend farming).

So i did a little math, really just a little:

For new good items from Baro you probably need around 1.2k Ducats (most likely its 3 items that you need and they cost around 400 each, sometimes its 2 you want which cost around 600 each)

So you need 1.2k Ducats, with the luck that i am having, it's most likely gonna take me 1.2k / 15 Ducats = 80 Relics (doesn't sound that bad yet right?)

So to get those Relics, the fastest way seems excavations, they yield around 1.2 to 1.3 Relics for every 4 Excavations completed and 1 of those takes 100 seconds: (80 / 1.3) * 4 * 100 = 24,615.38k seconds = 6.84 hours (still doesnt sound that bad, right?)

Now i also need to get in on the Fissures, 1 at a time, to get my prime parts just to sell em. I think we can say, that those take around 5 min each to complete (cause they are random, the mission type is not selectable and so we can't be sure how long they take): 80 * 5 minutes = 6.66 hours (does it start to sound bad?).

So now we're at 6.84 + 6.66 hours = 13.05 hours. So if i go ahead and play 1 hour every day (and yeah... I myself play a lot more, not having as much fun as before i might add [go'old void]) I could get all the Ducats i need, but then all i would do is farm.

Now some of you might say: "I never run out of Ducats". But I am sure that most MR 20+ would agree that this kind of farming is so ANNYOING that one just cannot get it done. We are here to play (what we like), not to farm (what you force us to, trying to get all the stuff you offer). I remember that DE wanted to make things "less grindy" well this above is the reason why so many MR 20+ can't quite explain why the new system just doesn't seem to be rewarding at all. We have all the stuff, all we get is Ducats, and its so little for such an annoying mission, that we just don't want to do it!

DE: You are throwing your best customers away... siriously... do something about this! WE ARE BORED and feel left out completely, tossed aside. Much like that South Park episode about economy breakdown "...please make room for someone who actually has money in this bank".

Up the Ducats prices at least, so we don't have to do annoying stuff all day... that's how you loose long-time players!

Oh, and in the rare occasion that one of you [DE] might really read this, THX for reading.

Edited September 9, 2016 by MDeero

[tifanator]

3 minutes ago, MDeero said:

We are here to play, not to farm. 

I have never quite understood this statement. The entire premise of Warframe is grinding/farming, what else do you think you're going to do if they remove/decrease it?

[Skaleek]

Warframe burnout is real.

[bluepheonix13]

In no way are you gonna get commons 80 times in a row. Especially not if you play in a group. One uncommon part is already worth 3 commons and if you get some rares you have even less runs. Also you will get some relics through playing normally, you probably have some spare relics with primes you want etc, etc.

6 minutes ago, MDeero said:

DE: You are throwing your best customers away

Baro is intended for veteran players with too much prime junk. Those people are also the ones, who have hundreds and thousands of relics, which means farming relics is not needed.

 

7 minutes ago, MDeero said:

Up the Ducats prices at least

If you didn't notice, they are reviewing our stock before every visit and are increasing and decreasing the prices based on that.

[-AxHx-MDeero]

I too have hundreds of relics, and my Ducats lasted for this long, but today i tried selling what i had gotten in the fissures i did... it wasn't enough. Also, at some point everyone will run out on Ducats. I feel like you guys don't get this at all, its 2 weeks of playing 1 hour per day just to be able to afford the relics, maybe with some luck you can reduce it, you are welcome to do the math with the chances for rare and uncommon items yourself, i said it was a really simple math. 

But if you guys are really happy with the way this is now... then ... well ... have fun

Edited September 9, 2016 by MDeero

[Zanchak]

This system is ridiculous. I find myself grinding purely to help friends nowadays, to give away everything I get, and then I'm left short at the worst of times. I was never "short" before.

This, however, is what my housemate faces (this fortnights example but it happens EVERY time now)

375 x 4 = 1500 (slash set)
280 (primed mod)
490 (prisma weapon)

2270 ducats for everything (only included weapon and mods, no fashion frame)

He "made" 250 ducats grinding with the few relics he has for around 4 hours. Thanks to RNG the most he got was a 45 ducat selection in every single mission, not even worth a proper half of the 100 ducat items.

This doesnt even take into account the 1 million credit price tag on top or the fact his relics are nearly gone (in every tier) and thats basically all his "game" is in warframe now - farming damn relics to never get enough ducats to buy anything anyway. Where's the time left to do quests and actually learn anything? All he's learning is either he uses every spare minute grinding relics AND fissures or he will never get anything from baro.

He works 12-16 hour days. In the past he could go in, do a few 20 minute void survivals and at least have a CHANCE of getting something. Tonight he's done 4 hours and can't afford the cheapest thing, let alone all of them (which he does not own)

It needs fixing. This seems geared to people who can sit on their rear gaming all day. And before the traders jump in, no one should "have" to buy from other players to get something they used to be able to farm on their own efforts.

[-AxHx-MDeero]

8 minutes ago, Zanchak said:

He works 12-16 hour days. In the past he could go in, do a few 20 minute void survivals and at least have a CHANCE of getting something. Tonight he's done 4 hours and can't afford the cheapest thing, let alone all of them (which he does not own)

This guy get's it

Also I'd like to throw in a quote from the game itself: "You have been playing for over an hour. Please don't forget to take a break."

Edited September 9, 2016 by MDeero

[Nesit1]

Didn't you think you aren't supposed to get all mods? Those mods are originally event rewards. And if you want them - you should work hard for them. Or just learn how to choose properly or prepare properly.

[-AxHx-MDeero]

1 minute ago, Nesit1 said:

Didn't you think you aren't supposed to get all mods? Those mods are originally event rewards. And if you want them - you should work hard for them. Or just learn how to choose properly or prepare properly.

I don't think Primed mods were ever Event rewards

[Nesit1]

Just now, MDeero said:

I don't think Primed mods were ever Event rewards

Well, it costs way lower, so.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

26 minutes ago, MDeero said:

For new good items from Baro you probably need around 1.2k Ducats (most likely its 3 items that you need and they cost around 400 each, sometimes its 2 you want which cost around 600 each)

Where the math falls apart and the wants of players vs DE diverge is this expectation of buying everything you want every visit.  Trust me, DE does not want that.  When you do that and they then repeat inventory all they hear is complaints that Baro never has anything new, he's a waste of time, etc, etc. 

It is much better for DE if you are forced to pick the one item you really want more than the others and leave wanting more.

[-AxHx-MDeero]

1 minute ago, Nesit1 said:

Well, it costs way lower, so.

 

12 minutes ago, Zanchak said:

can't afford the cheapest thing

 

[Zanchak]

2 minutes ago, Nesit1 said:

Didn't you think you aren't supposed to get all mods? Those mods are originally event rewards. And if you want them - you should work hard for them. Or just learn how to choose properly or prepare properly.

The point isn't if you are "supposed" to get them. The point is it's gone directly against their whole "we're gonna make the grind less" and basically made it impossible for newer members (who, you know, actually work) to "get" anything regardless if they are "supposed to" or not.

[-AxHx-MDeero]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

Where the math falls apart and the wants of players vs DE diverge is this expectation of buying everything you want every visit.  Trust me, DE does not want that.  When you do that and they then repeat inventory all they hear is complaints that Baro never has anything new, he's a waste of time, etc, etc. 

It is much better for DE if you are forced to pick the one item you really want more than the others and leave wanting more.

Just that there ain't anything else in there for me and others who already own most items

[Irorone]

2 minutes ago, Nesit1 said:

Didn't you think you aren't supposed to get all mods? Those mods are originally event rewards. And if you want them - you should work hard for them. Or just learn how to choose properly or prepare properly.

Yeah and look at primed chamber >_>.  There's a fine line on where rewarding player loyalty and punishing those who actually have a life outside the game lies and it's increasing on the grindy/pay (cuz it's literally vastly easier to work a job and buy this stuff than it is to farm unless rng is feeling particularly generous and that's excluding the forced waiting in the foundry) side of things (9000 cryo just to BUILD vaub prime systems aka literally 90 waves of excavation when lets be blunt at launch it only took a few hundred of any given resource exept nano spores to build something).

[FierceRadiance]

8 minutes ago, Zanchak said:

The point isn't if you are "supposed" to get them. The point is it's gone directly against their whole "we're gonna make the grind less" and basically made it impossible for newer members (who, you know, actually work) to "get" anything regardless if they are "supposed to" or not.

Be careful of entitlement.  I have nearly everything in the game, but I've also got over 1600 hours in the game.

Let newer players wait and grind for a while, sometimes for a loooong while, like the rest of us.  If that means they can't have what they want for several hundred hours, I'm okay with that.  That's how long it took me.

Tenno, what do you think about coming up with a method to acquire Ducats another way?  Right now, they're 'grindcoin', and can only be earned in return for time. Do we want an additional system for obtaining them, possibly involving plat/RW money? Or is that a non-starter?

Edited September 9, 2016 by FierceRadiance

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

5 minutes ago, MDeero said:

Just that there ain't anything else in there for me and others who already own most items

If you already have everything then why are you complaining about needing to farm ducats?  It takes me zero hours to grind zero ducats in order to buy zero things from him (I too have all his old stuff).

[-AxHx-MDeero]

I'd really not like to see more ppl buying junk prime parts for platinum just to get stuff that (as it seems) ppl see as a reward for playing

Just want a more interesting challenging way to obtain some prime parts (or rather Ducats) instead of this annoying fissure

Edited September 9, 2016 by MDeero

[DSpite]

40 minutes ago, MDeero said:

Hey,

today I found myself in the Relay at Baro and was wondering, why don't i have Ducats to spent?! That never happened to me in the old void system (this is not another thread about how bad the new system is, but I am agreeing with whomever thinks that, this is about the time we have to spend farming).

Now some of you might say: "I never run out of Ducats". But I am sure that most MR 20+ would agree that this kind of farming is so ANNYOING that one just cannot get it done. We are here to play (what we like), not to farm (what you force us to, trying to get all the stuff you offer). I remember that DE wanted to make things "less grindy" well this above is the reason why so many MR 20+ can't quite explain why the new system just doesn't seem to be rewarding at all. We have all the stuff, all we get is Ducats, and its so little for such an annoying mission, that we just don't want to do it!

DE: You are throwing your best customers away... siriously... do something about this! WE ARE BORED and feel left out completely, tossed aside. Much like that South Park episode about economy breakdown "...please make room for someone who actually has money in this bank".

Up the Ducats prices at least, so we don't have to do annoying stuff all day... that's how you loose long-time players!

Oh, and in the rare occasion that one of you [DE] might really read this, THX for reading.

Why are going to Baro? Why do you have to buy everything he has, when ZERO of what he has is NEEDED to play the game?

Play the game. Don't play the game. No one is forcing you you to do anything, and no "grinding" is necessary to play. If you are getting bored of the game, play something else.
 

You are causing your own problem with this mentality, it has nothing to do with the game.

[Zanchak]

Just now, FierceRadiance said:

Be careful of entitlement.  I have nearly everything in the game, but I've also got over 1600 hours in the game.

Let newer players wait and grind for a while, sometimes for a loooong while, like the rest of us.  If that means they can't have what they want for several hundred hours, I'm okay with that.  That's how long it took me.

Tenno, what do you think about coming up with a method to acquire Ducats another way?  Right now, they're 'grindcoin', and can only be purchased with time. Do we want an additional system for obtaining them, possibly involving plat/RW money? Or is that a non-starter?

It's far from entitlement to expect the game to keep its word (less grind) and I actually dislike this new system because it fed the people who needed everything NOW, however.. on seeing where ducats are going everytime he comes, and the efforts other people make just to get a single mod (if that, in this case) it's ridiculous. It used to be an enjoyable game that yes, had its grind, but also more than just that. It's driving away not only older players, but also newer (you know, the ones they were trying to favour)

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

2 minutes ago, MDeero said:

I'd really not like to see more ppl buying junk prime parts for platinum just to get stuff that (as it seems) ppl see as a reward for playing

Trading my time for your money is one of the foundations of warframe trade.  I fail to see how this aspect of ducats is a problem in any way.

[-AxHx-MDeero]

1 minute ago, DSpite said:

Why are going to Baro? Why do you have to buy everything he has, when ZERO of what he has is NEEDED to play the game?

Play the game. Don't play the game. No one is forcing you you to do anything, and no "grinding" is necessary to play. If you are getting bored of the game, play something else.
 

You are causing your own problem with this mentality, it has nothing to do with the game.

Well, i want the new stuff, just to have it, that's what the whole game is about, getting stuff, that's why they add stuff. Those helping newcomers don't get anything out of it, and then they find themselves not beeing able to get the stuff that was added... not a nice system

[-AxHx-MDeero]

Still, most of you don't seem to get the point, the grind is too annoying and too time consuming

[-AxHx-MDeero]

Maybe I'd like it more if the endless missions on Fissures would reward you with an item for every rotation, consuming a relic of the equipped type in every rotation until you don't have any of that kind. This would make it more challenging without changing much about the system itself...

[FierceRadiance]

12 minutes ago, Zanchak said:

It's far from entitlement to expect the game to keep its word (less grind) and I actually dislike this new system because it fed the people who needed everything NOW, however.. on seeing where ducats are going everytime he comes, and the efforts other people make just to get a single mod (if that, in this case) it's ridiculous. It used to be an enjoyable game that yes, had its grind, but also more than just that. It's driving away not only older players, but also newer (you know, the ones they were trying to favour)

I mean no disrespect to you personally, Zanchak.  But I'm always leery of forum posts by folk who claim to know what other players are thinking and feeling, especially if it just happens to coincide with what they think and feel.  Brother, I believe you feel that way, I'm less inclined to believe that you know what I or any other player feels.  And I've read enough forum posts by enough different players over the years to strongly believe entitlement is an ongoing and obvious concern (obvious to many, but usually not to the entitled player, of course), at least among a percentage of forumites. If that number doesn't include you, then that's a good thing.  I know there are plenty of others reading to whom it does apply, however.

But that said, I agree that I've reached a point in the game where I'm not willing to put in the many, many hours I strongly believe it will take for me to grind my way to Nekros P or Vauban P.  I also strongly believe that DE knows exactly how many players are earning -as opposed to just purchasing- these hard-to-earn Prime 'frames.  Obviously, the more players who buy them (i.e., spend money to support the game) the better for DE.  I think we all get that.  And if a large enough number of players feel the same as you and I, and DE sees very few (or even no) players are earning these frames, they'll make adjustments.  Burning man-hours to create game assets which then go to waste is a bad business idea, and I'm sure they will fix any game mechanic which THEY believe isn't working the way they designed it to, our opinions notwithstanding.

As far as expecting DE to always do what they said they were planning to do, that's just not realistic.  I know, it's angering. But you've playing the game long enough to know that the devs have made any number of comments about things they wanted to change, or plan to change, or things they will be fixing, etc. which just for one reason or another just never materialized.  It's just life in the RW.  I'm embarrassed but honest enough to admit that I haven't always done what I said I would do, and I can't hold someone else to a higher standard than I expect of myself.