Syndicate Melee Weapons Are Just Too Much Fun!

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, Lord_Azrael said:

No, actually. I was taking advantage of the synergy between DoT's and blinds, which is much better than simply attacking. I was able to kill all 8 using only two applications of the sydon's blind by staying out of finisher range and slash-proccing them while they were blinded. Also, while charging the blind I had an effective 99% DR, but if I had simply attacked them I would have had only 93.75% DR (link and bless) and would have taken more damage.

Or, you can just kill them by hitting them. It isn't "much better than simply attacking". Sydon has higher spinning dps than Orthos (with much less range, mind you), and Orthos will make killing them into a cakewalk. The Radial Blind effect is strong - the realization of that effect on Sydon is terrible.

[Azrael]

4 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Or, you can just kill them by hitting them. It isn't "much better than simply attacking".

At high levels a slash proc augmented by a blind does much more damage than attacking. It would take you a lot longer to kill 8 level 140 heavy gunners by simply attacking them then it took me to kill them with slash procs. I didn't have any fancy slide attack macros either, I just blinded and hit them a couple times.

[LunarEdge7]

I'm having fun with Telos Boltace as well. I wanna try out Sancti Magistar and Secura Lecta as soon as I can.

The Vaykor Sydon, I feel they made it just, maybe too short.

Perhaps buff it up to blocking just 7 or 10 times and make the Blind last 5-7 seconds? Too long of a blind would be bad for balance, too.

[BornWithTeeth]

3 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

At high levels a slash proc augmented by a blind does much more damage than attacking. It would take you a lot longer to kill 8 level 140 heavy gunners by simply attacking them then it took me to kill them with slash procs. I didn't have any fancy slide attack macros either, I just blinded and hit them a couple times.

I appreciate that I may be revealing my ignorance here, but....how are you getting Slash procs out of the Vaykor Sydon? It has no Slash damage, and thus should not be able to proc that status effect. Unless it has hidden Slash damage stats which aren't in its profile, the weapon should not even be capable of proccing Slash, even with Madurai. You can't percentage buff something if the starting level is 0.00.

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

I appreciate that I may be revealing my ignorance here, but....how are you getting Slash procs out of the Vaykor Sydon? It has no Slash damage, and thus should not be able to proc that status effect. Unless it has hidden Slash damage stats which aren't in its profile, the weapon should not even be capable of proccing Slash, even with Madurai. You can't percentage buff something if the starting level is 0.00.

Madurai can add slash damage to weapons with no slash at all. It adds a percentage of the base damage as slash, so it doesn't work like an IPS mod. Instead, madurai works more like an elemental mod that adds slash damage.

*Edit: as an example, you can now make a slash ignis. Yes, you heard that right. Slash. Ignis.   :)

Edited September 16, 2016 by Lord_Azrael

[Epsik-kun]

2 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

At high levels a slash proc augmented by a blind does much more damage than attacking

It does. But 140 isn't that high of a level. And you will never get to the level where you can profit from the blind on Sydon, because even "ultra fastest blind kill" is too slow for Survival. And in Excavation or Defence standing around and blocking is a great way to get the objective destroyed.

Like, I can dish out absurd amount of dps by using Dual Ichors on Excalibur by combining Furious Javelin, Blood Rush and Radial Blind. The thing is, outside of Simulacrum it has no use - it's ineffective.

Same thing with Sydon. The blind is strong, but its duration, the finishers and the fact you have to block stuff make it worthless. Not to say, even if you were to somehow get to the level of content where it becomes useful, you'd be limited to 1.5 frames, because everything else will be oneshotted on sight. And even then, it'll be a "meh" melee at best.

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

It does. But 140 isn't that high of a level. And you will never get to the level where you can profit from the blind on Sydon, because even "ultra fastest blind kill" is too slow for Survival.

Before the void changes, me and a friend of mine did 2 hours in T4 survival using slash and blinds. I played Mirage, and he played nekros, and we both used naramon. I had no elemental damage at all on my dual kamas prime. Before we extracted, I was able to kill a level 300 corrupted bombard in about 2 seconds. I was chewing though packs of enemies like they weren't there, just because they were blinded. I used a short-range blind so that I wouldn't stop them from coming into the room, And there was no sewer camping either, we just ran around and killed things.

Now I know that naramon is OP, that's not the point. The point is: dual kamas (no elemental damage) + blind = dead level 300 bombard in 2 seconds. That's pretty good.

 

*Edit: but I'm not against changing it! I just wanted to say that it's not completely useless. I agree that it should be improved.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Lord_Azrael

[Epsik-kun]

12 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

did 2 hours in T4 survival using slash and blinds

I have no idea what are you talking about.

Spoiler

I think, you're missing the point here.

1) You won't be able to go to that level with Sydon, without relying on Naramon.
2) You won't be able to proc the Blind, if you're relying on Naramon.
3) Dual Kamas are garbage. Seriously.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

I think, you're missing the point here.

1) You won't be able to go to that level with Sydon, without relying on Naramon.
2) You won't be able to proc the Blind, if you're relying on Naramon.

That's a fair point. But I keep trying to say that I'm not against changing it. I'm just trying to find the silver lining.

 

17 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

*Edit: but I'm not against changing it! I just wanted to say that it's not completely useless. I agree that it should be improved.

See?

[LunarEdge7]

26 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Madurai can add slash damage to weapons with no slash at all. It adds a percentage of the base damage as slash, so it doesn't work like an IPS mod. Instead, madurai works more like an elemental mod that adds slash damage.

*Edit: as an example, you can now make a slash ignis. Yes, you heard that right. Slash. Ignis.   :)

Oh that's it, I'm gonna equip Madurai with max-focused Blazing Fury on.

And spin2win.

[Azrael]

12 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

3) Dual Kamas are garbage. Seriously.

Is that you, sarcasm? Is this me?

[Epsik-kun]

35 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

but I'm not against changing it! I just wanted to say that it's not completely useless. I agree that it should be improved.

Well, my point is in the current state it is completely useless. I understand what are you getting at - and I agree - blind is indeed an extremely powerful effect. It's just the way it is implemented on Sydon makes going for it an objective waste of time. If, let's say, it was changed to a sole block into a not finisher enabling blind - it would be actually useful and worth going for, while still having the disadvantage of even allowing enemies to attack you.

However, I would still be salty, because it will provide literally nothing for Excal.

11 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Is that you, sarcasm? Is this me?

Ichors are better at making stuff dead. Cleavers are better at spreading bleed. Split-Sword/Raza are better at spinning. Pick your poison, but don't let it be Dual Kamas - into the trash they go.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[Azrael]

15 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Cleavers are better at spreading bleed.

Not my thing. They need the augment to be better, but the augment opens enemies to finishers. Finishers are slow and awful. One of the advantages of mirage's blind is it doesn't open enemies to finishers (at least it didn't last I tried this). So I avoid using the augment so that I don't get bogged down doing finishers, and that means the cleavers aren't as good as they appear.

Anyway, anything that can kill level 300 bombards isn't trash. Just because there's something better doesn't mean everything else is trash. That's silly. That's like saying that the galatine/war/scindo prime are all trash because the galatine prime exists. Those are all good weapons that have been outclassed by the ultimate power creep.

Edited September 16, 2016 by Lord_Azrael

[StonedMakak]

6 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

I'm pretty sure that MR 12 players still worry about credits. So does literally every player I know, even the ones with 80 million credits, because they take newer players on credit farms quite frequently.

I don't even know how many credits I have, just stopped paying attention at some point, and I know plenty of people who are in similar position. But our experience are not hard statistics, thus those statements are anecdotal and make for moot points.

I read through the other replies, I know you're trying to be helpful, kudos to you. Nevertheless, no matter how we slice it, those procs are very situational and rather half-baked for something that's been in the oven for months.