Trading Frustrations Discussion

[(XBOX)Vaktalor]

I have no idea where to post this so i'm posting it here if it should be some where else feel free to let me know or move the post to the correct area 

I need to get something off my chest as this has been a problem since SOTR came out when the market crashed this might be the most controversial topic i might have made but i hope we can start a discussion on ways how we can possibly alleviate some of these problems 

i don't know if this problem exist on all platforms but i know for sure it's on xbox  there is a problem with people price gouging especially with arcanes like arcane guardian 

I notice the uncommon and some of the rarer arcane have gone down in price a bit but with arcane guardian which is a common arcane has gone up on price massively i'm talking 1000p-2000p for a set which is absolutely ridiculous before SOTR it was around 500p for a set witch the market crashing i thought it would be around 300-400 instead i get a bunch of backlash i had 3 people (not naming anybody)  in less than 45 minutes argue with me and attempting to convince me it's worth 1000p-2000p. it's kind of frustrating how things are going right now and since there are no sites for console prices it makes things worse. it also takes forever to keep up to date when the market changes i can't be bothered going on trade chat because of this.  As a veteran player trade chat is frustrating to work with especially since the school year is going on some people won't have time to sit all day on trade chat 

i hope this all makes sense and my apologies for being negative i hope to be more positive in the future if you have anything you want to say feel free to say it here 

Edited September 24, 2016 by (XB1)falconpwnch0234

[(PSN)azul86sapphire]

The thing about trade is that it is not mandated or governed by DE. There is not, to my knowledge, an "official price list" written by the developers. That means that people are free to make their own prices.

Sell a Primed Flow for 1 plat? DE will not step in to say you are making a poor deal. Sell a Nezha Chassis for 800 plat? DE cannot step in to call it a rip off. I can see maybe the community saying something, but there really is nothing to be done from a development perspective. Not unless they want to entirely revamp the trading system to auto-populate prices for sales.

[(XBOX)Vaktalor]

1 hour ago, (PS4)azul86sapphire said:

The thing about trade is that it is not mandated or governed by DE. There is not, to my knowledge, an "official price list" written by the developers. That means that people are free to make their own prices.

Sell a Primed Flow for 1 plat? DE will not step in to say you are making a poor deal. Sell a Nezha Chassis for 800 plat? DE cannot step in to call it a rip off. I can see maybe the community saying something, but there really is nothing to be done from a development perspective. Not unless they want to entirely revamp the trading system to auto-populate prices for sales.

you are right on that one 

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

its also unfortunately a side effect of the relic system. For everything thats getting price gouged, there's other stuff that isn't worth a dime now that people used to be able to make plat off of. We cant make plat off of mag or nyx or soon nova as they get vaulted, cuz the relics are still here. Seeing as we can no longer make good plat that way, there's unfortunately people that make up for it by selling arcanes at a higher cost because its the thing that noobs cant easily farm, and many vets dont often bother farming, plus is limited by time. So in other words, people are gouging arcanes because raids have a difficult entry barrier, n the primes no longer have a barrier, thus got radically devalued.

[(XBOX)Vaktalor]

9 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

its also unfortunately a side effect of the relic system. For everything thats getting price gouged, there's other stuff that isn't worth a dime now that people used to be able to make plat off of. We cant make plat off of mag or nyx or soon nova as they get vaulted, cuz the relics are still here. Seeing as we can no longer make good plat that way, there's unfortunately people that make up for it by selling arcanes at a higher cost because its the thing that noobs cant easily farm, and many vets dont often bother farming, plus is limited by time. So in other words, people are gouging arcanes because raids have a difficult entry barrier, n the primes no longer have a barrier, thus got radically devalued.

i guess i'm going have to do raids more often if i we're to get anywhere close to adapting to this BS as well as other people that need plat 

[(PSN)NastyNath74]

On 25/09/2016 at 10:12 AM, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

its also unfortunately a side effect of the relic system. For everything thats getting price gouged, there's other stuff that isn't worth a dime now that people used to be able to make plat off of. We cant make plat off of mag or nyx or soon nova as they get vaulted, cuz the relics are still here. Seeing as we can no longer make good plat that way, there's unfortunately people that make up for it by selling arcanes at a higher cost because its the thing that noobs cant easily farm, and many vets dont often bother farming, plus is limited by time. So in other words, people are gouging arcanes because raids have a difficult entry barrier, n the primes no longer have a barrier, thus got radically devalued.

So very true, SotR killed trading imo. The new relic system ensured nothing is "vaulted" as prime parts are still attainable if you have the relics, which in many cases people have lots ! Arcanes are about the only items that haven't halved in price at least due to this. I went from having a steady weekly plat income from putting effort in to farm rare parts or parts that were being vaulted to now spending more plat than earning (mostly from kubrows instant maturity rushing lol) I'm not sure this will ever improve now thanks to the new relic system but it was nice being a rich merchant for a long time . RIP

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

7 hours ago, (PS4)NastyNath74 said:

So very true, SotR killed trading imo. The new relic system ensured nothing is "vaulted" as prime parts are still attainable if you have the relics, which in many cases people have lots ! Arcanes are about the only items that haven't halved in price at least due to this. I went from having a steady weekly plat income from putting effort in to farm rare parts or parts that were being vaulted to now spending more plat than earning (mostly from kubrows instant maturity rushing lol) I'm not sure this will ever improve now thanks to the new relic system but it was nice being a rich merchant for a long time . RIP

what's even more sad is that they didn't take into consideration the amount of people who still had keys from frost ember rhino n loki. I almost would've been alright with the relics staying n demolishing the market, if those people with keys dating back to the pre daily cap on syndicate days n such could've farmed other vaulted things. Give veterans something here.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

19 hours ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

what's even more sad is that they didn't take into consideration the amount of people who still had keys from frost ember rhino n loki. I almost would've been alright with the relics staying n demolishing the market, if those people with keys dating back to the pre daily cap on syndicate days n such could've farmed other vaulted things. Give veterans something here.

Wait, what?  I have no idea what you're trying to say in regards to having keys from "frost ember rhino n loki".  That's not how Void keys worked.

[(PSN)NastyNath74]

16 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Wait, what?  I have no idea what you're trying to say in regards to having keys from "frost ember rhino n loki".  That's not how Void keys worked.

Yeah I'm not sure what he meant about that either, as far as I know the vaulted frames still able to be farmed only go back as far as Mag primr. Frost, ember, Loki & rhino aren't able to be farmed new relic style.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

20 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

Wait, what?  I have no idea what you're trying to say in regards to having keys from "frost ember rhino n loki".  That's not how Void keys worked.

 

3 hours ago, (PS4)NastyNath74 said:

Yeah I'm not sure what he meant about that either, as far as I know the vaulted frames still able to be farmed only go back as far as Mag primr. Frost, ember, Loki & rhino aren't able to be farmed new relic style.

thats exactly my point. They should be. If they're gonna have primes farmable after being vaulted, n you had keys from before frost or any of them were vaulted, you should have been given relics for frost n all the rest. The veterans in the community would at least have something to farm n sell for decent plat. I know for a fact many people had hundreds of t4 keys alone that are older than the concept of vaulting primes because they were purchased with syndicate standing when syndicates were new and didn't have a daily cap yet which is before primes were vaulted

Edited October 5, 2016 by (XB1)ashes of suvius

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

I don't see why this should be a thing.  How are DE supposed to know which and how many keys were purchased before the vault took place?  How are they supposed to figure out how to allocate those into relics that don't even exist?  How would that be seen as fair for other players?  Why should people who purchased keys before daily caps on syndicates be rewarded for it?  Why should you get things that others don't get?  Simply playing the game for longer shouldn't mean that you get special perks that aren't available to others.

Also, when they implemented the vaults, those keys no longer corresponded to any chance at getting those parts.  That DE has since added a feature that allows one to hold onto relics after the vaulting process doesn't mean that they have any obligation to do anything regarding the keys that you had when the change was made.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

5 hours ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I don't see why this should be a thing.  How are DE supposed to know which and how many keys were purchased before the vault took place?  How are they supposed to figure out how to allocate those into relics that don't even exist?  How would that be seen as fair for other players?  Why should people who purchased keys before daily caps on syndicates be rewarded for it?  Why should you get things that others don't get?  Simply playing the game for longer shouldn't mean that you get special perks that aren't available to others.

Also, when they implemented the vaults, those keys no longer corresponded to any chance at getting those parts.  That DE has since added a feature that allows one to hold onto relics after the vaulting process doesn't mean that they have any obligation to do anything regarding the keys that you had when the change was made.

I can agree with most of your points, however, the veterans who have played the longest and had the most keys got the short end of the stick. DE always tries to say that they consider the value of things and try to uphold the value of things in conversion. This did not happen. Relics are not equal to keys. At best, they are worth a quarter the same value. If you talk about a squad of 4 using a single survival key and going to c rotation, that 16 rewards from 1 key, thus a relic is worth 1/16th the value. If we take it to an extreme, I usually did at least 1-2 hours, thus to me and alot of other veterans, those relics are worth less than a 50th of what the key was. If you're talking capture keys, they are still 1/4 the value and now take longer to run. And of course this is without taking into account the downshift in the market making every part less valuable and making the newer vaulted things worth next to nothing.

so as far as what's fair for players, this system isn't. As far as dividing up and allocating keys into relics that don't exist, they already did that, they just decided to only make it date back so far. I dont feel like endgame/veteran players are entitled to more, I feel like those are the people getting the worst exchange rate on what they've earned, and this could've balanced that.

just to clarify though. I dont expect this. It was simply me thinking out loud n then trying to explain the thought, not me fighting for a change to be made

Edited October 5, 2016 by (XB1)ashes of suvius

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

1 hour ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

I can agree with most of your points, however, the veterans who have played the longest and had the most keys got the short end of the stick. DE always tries to say that they consider the value of things and try to uphold the value of things in conversion. This did not happen. Relics are not equal to keys. At best, they are worth a quarter the same value. If you talk about a squad of 4 using a single survival key and going to c rotation, that 16 rewards from 1 key, thus a relic is worth 1/16th the value. If we take it to an extreme, I usually did at least 1-2 hours, thus to me and alot of other veterans, those relics are worth less than a 50th of what the key was. If you're talking capture keys, they are still 1/4 the value and now take longer to run. And of course this is without taking into account the downshift in the market making every part less valuable and making the newer vaulted things worth next to nothing.

so as far as what's fair for players, this system isn't. As far as dividing up and allocating keys into relics that don't exist, they already did that, they just decided to only make it date back so far. I dont feel like endgame/veteran players are entitled to more, I feel like those are the people getting the worst exchange rate on what they've earned, and this could've balanced that.

just to clarify though. I dont expect this. It was simply me thinking out loud n then trying to explain the thought, not me fighting for a change to be made

I hear you about less rewards per relic.  As someone who often plays solo, it's even worse for me, because now I have to group up in order to get a better shot at those rare items when I want something specific.  So, yeah, there are definitely downsides to the new system.  There are also positives to the new system just as there were positives and negatives about the old system.  Even though it took me 10 runs with a full team of radiant relics to get the Tigris Prime BP, that was nothing compared to the grind of how many rotation Cs I had to go through on T4D to get a Vauban Prime Chassis to drop, which was over 100.  Not to mention all the T3D Rot Cs that I went through to never even get a Frost Prime Chassis when it was unvaulted.  Under the new system, that is much, much less likely to happen (although I am aware of someone on the forums that has cataloged how many missions they've run for some of the new primes and it's an obscene number).

As for going back a certain amount, that wasn't done arbitrarily.  When PC switched to the new system, the Mag Prime unvaulting was still live.  They got relics converted to Mag Prime parts (and the weapons) because the vault was still open.  When the time came to change over to the new system for console, DE converted some of the relics to those vaulted parts because they wanted to be fair to us.  It was a classy move, and one they didn't have to do.

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

I unfortunately don't see the upsides that you do. You absolutely are not wrong on the points you make, but theres alot u dont calculate in. For instance, those 10 all radiant runs you did for Tigris Bp, is 40 relics, plus 4000 traces, and the relics to earn those traces. N at least for me, average traces per mission is below 10, so 400 relics to get 4000 traces. Thats alot of work and time and relics. Especially for someone who views the fissure missions as the most repetitive bs in the game, completely unchallenging, without strategy and annoying. Also, I get the whole timeline of why we have mag relics, I dont feel like it was a classy move. It was the least they could do. N they are getting away with the least they could possibly do. This whole relic system only insured that we put in more work for less return, and cant make plat off of items getting vaulted, but DE can cash in on unvaulted packs. Also, good luck farming ember or frost when they come back and their relics are rare c rotation drops.

edit: Thats also not counting the tedium of not being able to consistently run. With a squad of 4 running fissures all day, more time goes in to picking keys, no team ever gets the 100 traces to radiant a relic at the same pace, more time goes into finding a team that has radiant relics or the right relics. Before I could just grab 3 buddies n hang out for an hour in a mission, earning rewords. Now, good luck doing anything for a solid hour without the hassle of picking stuff n reforming your squad. And thats also not bringing up the fact that the game just lost its only viable endgame, and by extension, the whole concept of team building, team synergy and strategy which is what the game had going for it, other than the base elements of movement which oddly enough often get undermined by thing like the loot system, and the draw of being a unique mix of hack n slash, powers n shooter, which is also kinda getting ruined by the constant nullification/resistance/immunity to powers, leaving the game more n more of a shooter. From my point of view, its lose lose from every angle, and many veterans feel the same. We don't deserve more, but we have been supporting DE the longest, recruiting players into the game, teaching players that are here, etc. We do deserve not to get screwed over the most. And when you sit and think about an mmo game thats been going multiple years, you need to build for the people who've been here longest, its only a matter of time before any player that sticks around becomes a veteran or endgame player. Especially true in a game where veterans are the main way for a new player to learn, the less veterans stay, the less new players stay. No one wants to be stuck with no direction to go, n by putting endgame players in that position, DE puts new players in that position.

Edited October 5, 2016 by (XB1)ashes of suvius

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

42 minutes ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

I unfortunately don't see the upsides that you do. You absolutely are not wrong on the points you make, but theres alot u dont calculate in. For instance, those 10 all radiant runs you did for Tigris Bp, is 40 relics, plus 4000 traces, and the relics to earn those traces. N at least for me, average traces per mission is below 10, so 400 relics to get 4000 traces. Thats alot of work and time and relics. Especially for someone who views the fissure missions as the most repetitive bs in the game, completely unchallenging, without strategy and annoying. Also, I get the whole timeline of why we have mag relics, I dont feel like it was a classy move. It was the least they could do. N they are getting away with the least they could possibly do. This whole relic system only insured that we put in more work for less return, and cant make plat off of items getting vaulted, but DE can cash in on unvaulted packs. Also, good luck farming ember or frost when they come back and their relics are rare c rotation drops.

edit: Thats also not counting the tedium of not being able to consistently run. With a squad of 4 running fissures all day, more time goes in to picking keys, no team ever gets the 100 traces to radiant a relic at the same pace, more time goes into finding a team that has radiant relics or the right relics. Before I could just grab 3 buddies n hang out for an hour in a mission, earning rewords. Now, good luck doing anything for a solid hour without the hassle of picking stuff n reforming your squad. And thats also not bringing up the fact that the game just lost its only viable endgame, and by extension, the whole concept of team building, team synergy and strategy which is what the game had going for it, other than the base elements of movement which oddly enough often get undermined by thing like the loot system, and the draw of being a unique mix of hack n slash, powers n shooter, which is also kinda getting ruined by the constant nullification/resistance/immunity to powers, leaving the game more n more of a shooter. From my point of view, its lose lose from every angle, and many veterans feel the same. We don't deserve more, but we have been supporting DE the longest, recruiting players into the game, teaching players the are here, etc. We do deserve not to get screwed over the most. And when you sit and think about an mmo game thats been going multiple years, you need to build for the people who've been here longest, its only a matter of time before any player that sticks around becomes a veteran or endgame player. Especially true in a game where veterans are the main way for a new player to learn, the less veterans stay, the less new players stay. No one wants to be stuck with no direction to go, n by putting endgame players in that position, DE puts new players in that position.

totally meant to edit my post not quote it, my bad

Edited October 5, 2016 by (XB1)ashes of suvius

[(PSN)BeefIn_Mah_Taco]

I was using wftrading until it switched to relics. I tried to sell a Nova set on the low end of what wftrading said and has someone message me saying I was asking too much. So even that site is unreliable now. It would be nice to have sort of an extension to trading or Maroo's Bazaar or something else that could show recent trade medians/averages so you're not wasting your time in chat by asking for too much or offering too low.

 

Also the trade channel needs to be broken down IMO. A section for mods, a section for weapons, a section for sentinels/companions, etc. It would make it easier to find what you're looking for (because that wall of text is godawful), and in turn make it easier to sell items. 

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

4 hours ago, (PS4)BeefIn_Mah_Taco said:

I was using wftrading until it switched to relics. I tried to sell a Nova set on the low end of what wftrading said and has someone message me saying I was asking too much. So even that site is unreliable now. It would be nice to have sort of an extension to trading or Maroo's Bazaar or something else that could show recent trade medians/averages so you're not wasting your time in chat by asking for too much or offering too low.

 

Also the trade channel needs to be broken down IMO. A section for mods, a section for weapons, a section for sentinels/companions, etc. It would make it easier to find what you're looking for (because that wall of text is godawful), and in turn make it easier to sell items. 

not bad ideas but for breaking up trade, it'd have to be done in a way that doesn't further clutter up the chat tabs area

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

18 hours ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

I unfortunately don't see the upsides that you do. You absolutely are not wrong on the points you make, but theres alot u dont calculate in. For instance, those 10 all radiant runs you did for Tigris Bp, is 40 relics, plus 4000 traces, and the relics to earn those traces. N at least for me, average traces per mission is below 10, so 400 relics to get 4000 traces. Thats alot of work and time and relics. Especially for someone who views the fissure missions as the most repetitive bs in the game, completely unchallenging, without strategy and annoying. Also, I get the whole timeline of why we have mag relics, I dont feel like it was a classy move. It was the least they could do. N they are getting away with the least they could possibly do. This whole relic system only insured that we put in more work for less return, and cant make plat off of items getting vaulted, but DE can cash in on unvaulted packs. Also, good luck farming ember or frost when they come back and their relics are rare c rotation drops.

 

First, I just want to say thank you for having this conversation and the thoughtful points you're making.  We may not agree on everything, but I feel we're both being respectful, which is a nice thing to have happen.  (Plus 1 for you!)

Yes, you're totally correct that me running 10 radiant relics meant that others had to also run radiant relics, and we all needed to farm for those relics and the void traces.  And, yes, it was 40 relics and 4000 traces.  But, that's for the group, not for the individual.  I understand why you're making that comparison, since in the old system 1 person could run a key and have 3 other people join in to get rewards.  The new system requires that each individual have the relic and the void traces, but it still doesn't seem fair to compare what the group has to do vs my personal grind under the old system.  Maybe that's just me.  The system seems to trade a guaranteed grind (downside) for allowing us to increase the odds in our favor (upside).

I also agree that the void fissure missions themselves need some work.  Killing stuff until you get 10 reactants is repetitive and boring.  I'd like to see some way of changing things up.  Maybe we can come up with some ideas?

I don't agree that putting in the Mag relics was the least DE could do.  They didn't have to even do that.  They could have simply snapped the line and given us a straight relic conversion from what was in the drop tables at the time.  I do, however, agree that DE will try to cash in on vaulted packs, and I'm undecided whether I thinks that's a bad thing or not.  DE does have to make money off this game somehow.  Are there better options?  Maybe, but I haven't sat down and thought too hard about it yet.  I do think that when Ember comes back (Frost will likely never come back at the rate we are going) I will have to focus on getting her BP (the only part I need).  It will probably be an Axi rare, meaning I'll have to approach it as I did the Tigris BP, Galatine BP, and Nekros BP.  Farm the relics (either thru syndicate packs or long runs of Xini, etc), have void traces on hand to use (I can store up to 1200), and then find a group to run them.

Quote

edit: Thats also not counting the tedium of not being able to consistently run. With a squad of 4 running fissures all day, more time goes in to picking keys, no team ever gets the 100 traces to radiant a relic at the same pace, more time goes into finding a team that has radiant relics or the right relics. Before I could just grab 3 buddies n hang out for an hour in a mission, earning rewords. Now, good luck doing anything for a solid hour without the hassle of picking stuff n reforming your squad. And thats also not bringing up the fact that the game just lost its only viable endgame, and by extension, the whole concept of team building, team synergy and strategy which is what the game had going for it, other than the base elements of movement which oddly enough often get undermined by thing like the loot system, and the draw of being a unique mix of hack n slash, powers n shooter, which is also kinda getting ruined by the constant nullification/resistance/immunity to powers, leaving the game more n more of a shooter. From my point of view, its lose lose from every angle, and many veterans feel the same. We don't deserve more, but we have been supporting DE the longest, recruiting players into the game, teaching players that are here, etc. We do deserve not to get screwed over the most. And when you sit and think about an mmo game thats been going multiple years, you need to build for the people who've been here longest, its only a matter of time before any player that sticks around becomes a veteran or endgame player. Especially true in a game where veterans are the main way for a new player to learn, the less veterans stay, the less new players stay. No one wants to be stuck with no direction to go, n by putting endgame players in that position, DE puts new players in that position.

Your points here about not being able to consistently run are completely valid and I agree with them.  One of the most frustrating parts of the new system is trying to get groups together to do radiant runs.  If you're running with a group of people you know, then you can all farm the relics together, then farm the void traces (if needed), and then run together.  It's still a hassle vs the old system where you could just jump into the void and go for the parts.  If you're like me and you can't rely on clanmates, you have to makes sure you do all the grinding up front, then hit up recruitment chat and sit and wait (not playing) looking for a group.  And, the longer the relics are out there, the more that people have the items you're going for and the less they want to run those relics again - meaning that the longer an item is released, the harder it is to find a group.  It would take me 30 minutes, at least, to find groups to do full radiant runs when I got to later runs for the Tigris BP.

I also agree with you that new players need older players to be around, due to the fact that this game doesn't do a good job of explaining things.  "Go read the wiki" shouldn't be the answer to everything for new players.

In regards to end game...that's a weird subject.  Yes, playing 1+ hour in endless survival (or 60+ waves in def) is probably what this game has for endgame, but I feel like WF could and should have a better endgame concept than that.  I hope that in removing the impetus for running those (they are still there, just without rewards) it will compel DE to create a real end game that isn't just more and more bulletspongey enemies that have been able to OHKO you for the last half hour that you had to fight for 1+ plus to reach.  Hopefully that makes sense.

I also want to highlight one thing you said, "We do deserve not to get screwed over the most."  No one deserves to get screwed over at all.  It's unfortunate that you feel that vets are getting the worst of everything, and it does seem like they've done a bit to focus on newer players recently (they needed to, and didn't do enough IMO).  I don't see how vets, specifically, are getting screwed over though.  Sure, there's no more reason to run 1+ hr survivals, but did you ever actually enjoy doing that?  I didn't.  I did like the fact that I could gain lots of rewards for 1 key, thus maximizing my output (ducats!) but the actual runs themselves were tedious and boring.  I usually just stopped at 1 hr simply because of boredom.  I had to go do something else.  I think WF can and should do better for all of us.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

15 hours ago, (PS4)BeefIn_Mah_Taco said:

I was using wftrading until it switched to relics. I tried to sell a Nova set on the low end of what wftrading said and has someone message me saying I was asking too much. So even that site is unreliable now. It would be nice to have sort of an extension to trading or Maroo's Bazaar or something else that could show recent trade medians/averages so you're not wasting your time in chat by asking for too much or offering too low.

 

Also the trade channel needs to be broken down IMO. A section for mods, a section for weapons, a section for sentinels/companions, etc. It would make it easier to find what you're looking for (because that wall of text is godawful), and in turn make it easier to sell items. 

wftrading has been old for a long time.  Warframe market is much better, although it's PC dominated, so you have to adjust to what the going rate is on PS4.  It gives a good starting point though.

http://warframe.market/

As for the trade channel, I'm going to simply say I agree with @(XB1)ashes of suvius.  It's a good idea, just need to find a way to not have it clutter up the chat tabs.

Edited October 6, 2016 by (XB1)R3d P01nt
Added link

[(XBOX)ashes of suvius]

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

First, I just want to say thank you for having this conversation and the thoughtful points you're making.  We may not agree on everything, but I feel we're both being respectful, which is a nice thing to have happen

completely agree.

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I also agree that the void fissure missions themselves need some work.  Killing stuff until you get 10 reactants is repetitive and boring.  I'd like to see some way of changing things up.  Maybe we can come up with some ideas?

unfortunately the best ideas I can come up with are basically reworks of void matches that have distict feeling match types, that move to new locales like the relic system but allow for at least some sort of continuing reword for endless that veteran players are worth the rewords, if nothing else, at least traces, or pre upgraded relics.

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I don't agree that putting in the Mag relics was the least DE could do.  They didn't have to even do that.  They could have simply snapped the line and given us a straight relic conversion from what was in the drop tables at the time.  I do, however, agree that DE will try to cash in on vaulted packs, and I'm undecided whether I thinks that's a bad thing or not.  DE does have to make money off this game somehow

I actually feel like that would've been better if they snapped the line, it'd be one more group of primes that could be sold for a decent amount. I have no problem with DE making money, I contribute to them, my issue in this case is them stopping us from doing so.

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

In regards to end game...that's a weird subject.  Yes, playing 1+ hour in endless survival (or 60+ waves in def) is probably what this game has for endgame, but I feel like WF could and should have a better endgame concept than that.  I hope that in removing the impetus for running those (they are still there, just without rewards) it will compel DE to create a real end game that isn't just more and more bulletspongey enemies that have been able to OHKO you for the last half hour that you had to fight for 1+ plus to reach.  Hopefully that makes sense.

 

1 hour ago, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

I also want to highlight one thing you said, "We do deserve not to get screwed over the most."  No one deserves to get screwed over at all.  It's unfortunate that you feel that vets are getting the worst of everything, and it does seem like they've done a bit to focus on newer players recently (they needed to, and didn't do enough IMO).  I don't see how vets, specifically, are getting screwed over though.  Sure, there's no more reason to run 1+ hr survivals, but did you ever actually enjoy doing that?  I didn't.  I did like the fact that I could gain lots of rewards for 1 key, thus maximizing my output (ducats!) but the actual runs themselves were tedious and boring.  I usually just stopped at 1 hr simply because of boredom.  I had to go do something else.  I think WF can and should do better for all of us.

when it comes to end game, I did actually enjoy spending an hour plus in the void. I liked the challenge, I liked the strategy, and I felt like the rewords positively reinforced good team building n synergy. I felt like an hour in a survival and an hour in defense felt different. Were either perfect? God no. Were they better than leaving us with is arguably worse? I think so. Why do I think what we have is worse? Well for 1, it doesn't reinforce strategic gameplay or team building, its not challenging, its more of a grind n at least to me, its less distinct, every match type feels the same. I used to be able to play a few captures in between survival and defense n hang with friends for two hours or more, without it being too broken up by tedium n hassle. Now I cant really force myself to play fissures for two hours let alone keep a full squad doing it. Every single fissure is the same bs, I can play all the fissures that pop up in that time and still feel like I'm doing the same things for hours n hours, which is what peoples problem was before, but now, you can't escape the tedium by playing the match types you like because they all feel alike and to top It off you have to stop n pick stuff between each reward. Tedium.

as far as the veteran stuff, I said what I said because someone mistook me for meaning that veterans should get pampered or preferential treatment. I do kinda thing we're getting left by the wayside, which is a double edged sword. Do I disagree that they should help things for the new player? Not at all, but no vet is going to be a beginner again with no understanding, n plenty of beginners will be bored later if they dont reinstate a decent endgame. By ripping those aspects of endgame challenge n strategy away they not only left vets with nothing to do , which was already an issue, they also left new players with nothing to build up to. N as far as your hope that they will work on it quicker because endgame is severely lacking, solar rails were removed over a year ago for conclave and and lunaro, which has taken up way too much of the dev priority list and workflow ever since, just for it to be less played than anything else in the game, with still no word of rails. N they basically teased us by naming an update specters of the rail. So with us waiting a year for rails, a year for umbras, 6 months for TWW, all of which we know they promised, many veterans dont see the point in hoping for endgame to come back, especially when they'd rather start a vacuum debate than give us a real answer about endgame.

edit: I like logic n debate and chill people, if you dont mind I think I'm going to add u as a friend on XBOX. N from your comment about not being able to rely on clanmates, I have a very active clan n alliance with a bunch of chill, logical people, I'm sure we can find u some people to play with.

Edited October 6, 2016 by (XB1)ashes of suvius

[(PSN)mmcareen]

On ‎9‎/‎24‎/‎2016 at 6:36 AM, (XB1)falconpwnch0234 said:

I have no idea where to post this so i'm posting it here if it should be some where else feel free to let me know or move the post to the correct area 

I need to get something off my chest as this has been a problem since SOTR came out when the market crashed this might be the most controversial topic i might have made but i hope we can start a discussion on ways how we can possibly alleviate some of these problems 

i don't know if this problem exist on all platforms but i know for sure it's on xbox  there is a problem with people price gouging especially with arcanes like arcane guardian 

I notice the uncommon and some of the rarer arcane have gone down in price a bit but with arcane guardian which is a common arcane has gone up on price massively i'm talking 1000p-2000p for a set which is absolutely ridiculous before SOTR it was around 500p for a set witch the market crashing i thought it would be around 300-400 instead i get a bunch of backlash i had 3 people (not naming anybody)  in less than 45 minutes argue with me and attempting to convince me it's worth 1000p-2000p. it's kind of frustrating how things are going right now and since there are no sites for console prices it makes things worse. it also takes forever to keep up to date when the market changes i can't be bothered going on trade chat because of this.  As a veteran player trade chat is frustrating to work with especially since the school year is going on some people won't have time to sit all day on trade chat 

i hope this all makes sense and my apologies for being negative i hope to be more positive in the future if you have anything you want to say feel free to say it here 

market has crashed on PS4 as well but hasn't been changed a lot on PC.  I have noticed the same, a grace and all the other "wanted" arcanes have been falling in price, Arcane Energize stayed the same but Arcane Guardian did go up slightly on PS4.  Very easy to sell a set.  Console price range on stuff though changes so regularly, and has such a bigger price range then PC does that we will never get a site for prices. plus we wouldn't have the traffic PC sites have.  PC is already on a computer so for them to bring up a website is so simple.  Look at how hard it is to get someone on Console to look something up on the wiki. 

 

I do agree with the frustration as I used to spent a lot of time in trading, 7 or 8 weeks where every day straight I ran out of trades as a MR 21.  Sense the new system come into play though and the market crashed I might do 2 trades a week.  I do think it will get a little better as people start to burn all of there relics.  As the for Arcanes you also got the nightmare mod bug where the nullifiers doesn't do anything making it a lot easier.  They did fix the JV cheeses but there was only a couple of arcane in there that was in high demand when it first came out anyways.

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

19 hours ago, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

edit: I like logic n debate and chill people, if you dont mind I think I'm going to add u as a friend on XBOX. N from your comment about not being able to rely on clanmates, I have a very active clan n alliance with a bunch of chill, logical people, I'm sure we can find u some people to play with.

Yeah, np.  I'm adding you right now, lol.

[(PSN)BeefIn_Mah_Taco]

On 10/6/2016 at 7:31 AM, (XB1)R3d P01nt said:

wftrading has been old for a long time.  Warframe market is much better, although it's PC dominated, so you have to adjust to what the going rate is on PS4.  It gives a good starting point though.

http://warframe.market/

As for the trade channel, I'm going to simply say I agree with @(XB1)ashes of suvius.  It's a good idea, just need to find a way to not have it clutter up the chat tabs.

Hey, thank you for the new source. I just used wftrading because it was the first that always popped up when I google "x trading price warframe".

 

As for the chat tabs, maybe they could break it into three main chats: Social (Clan/Alliance/Region), Recruiting (which could also stand to be broken down when traffic is really heavy--examples may be relic runs, resource/credit runs, quest help, etc), Trading (examples for broken down listed above). But the controls for console would probably make a system like this unlikely. I dunno how to work it out, please don't hurt me, I'm just tired of the wall of text :'(

[(PSN)NastyNath74]

On 06/10/2016 at 3:30 AM, (XB1)ashes of suvius said:

I unfortunately don't see the upsides that you do. You absolutely are not wrong on the points you make, but theres alot u dont calculate in. For instance, those 10 all radiant runs you did for Tigris Bp, is 40 relics, plus 4000 traces, and the relics to earn those traces. N at least for me, average traces per mission is below 10, so 400 relics to get 4000 traces. Thats alot of work and time and relics. Especially for someone who views the fissure missions as the most repetitive bs in the game, completely unchallenging, without strategy and annoying. Also, I get the whole timeline of why we have mag relics, I dont feel like it was a classy move. It was the least they could do. N they are getting away with the least they could possibly do. This whole relic system only insured that we put in more work for less return, and cant make plat off of items getting vaulted, but DE can cash in on unvaulted packs. Also, good luck farming ember or frost when they come back and their relics are rare c rotation drops.

edit: Thats also not counting the tedium of not being able to consistently run. With a squad of 4 running fissures all day, more time goes in to picking keys, no team ever gets the 100 traces to radiant a relic at the same pace, more time goes into finding a team that has radiant relics or the right relics. Before I could just grab 3 buddies n hang out for an hour in a mission, earning rewords. Now, good luck doing anything for a solid hour without the hassle of picking stuff n reforming your squad. And thats also not bringing up the fact that the game just lost its only viable endgame, and by extension, the whole concept of team building, team synergy and strategy which is what the game had going for it, other than the base elements of movement which oddly enough often get undermined by thing like the loot system, and the draw of being a unique mix of hack n slash, powers n shooter, which is also kinda getting ruined by the constant nullification/resistance/immunity to powers, leaving the game more n more of a shooter. From my point of view, its lose lose from every angle, and many veterans feel the same. We don't deserve more, but we have been supporting DE the longest, recruiting players into the game, teaching players that are here, etc. We do deserve not to get screwed over the most. And when you sit and think about an mmo game thats been going multiple years, you need to build for the people who've been here longest, its only a matter of time before any player that sticks around becomes a veteran or endgame player. Especially true in a game where veterans are the main way for a new player to learn, the less veterans stay, the less new players stay. No one wants to be stuck with no direction to go, n by putting endgame players in that position, DE puts new players in that position.

This my friend,  sums up my complete discontent with the SotR update and the way DE have beatch slapped veteran players, the trade market & player longevity. The previous post stating that veteran players don't deserve perks is complete new gen self entitled BS, you have articulated the reason why vets are a very important aspect of this and many other mmorpg's. Basically if you are prepared to spend 10 x more effort and actual game time than a casual noob you should be rewarded for it.

Edited October 13, 2016 by (PS4)NastyNath74

[(XBOX)R3d P01nt]

17 hours ago, (PS4)NastyNath74 said:

This my friend,  sums up my complete discontent with the SotR update and the way DE have beatch slapped veteran players, the trade market & player longevity. The previous post stating that veteran players don't deserve perks is complete new gen self entitled BS, you have articulated the reason why vets are a very important aspect of this and many other mmorpg's. Basically if you are prepared to spend 10 x more effort and actual game time than a casual noob you should be rewarded for it.

OK, so the bolded part is aimed at me.  I'm struggling to understand it though.  There are more options than vet vs. "casual noob", so that, right there, is a false dilemma logical fallacy.  Secondly, if you feel you should get special perks for playing longer than someone else, what should those perks be?  Let's get specific?  Should you be given stuff for your longevity that others don't get to have?  How do we determine who are the real "vets" in this situation?  Should someone who played for 3 years off and on be considered a vet even if they've logged less hours than someone who has played for less than a year?  How do you decide all of that?  Additionally, do you not see a bit of a clash between calling me self-entitled while simultaneously demanding that you be given stuff for being a "vet" by your own self-definition?  (Just saying, you may want to be more careful before slinging insults at others.)