(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 1 minute ago, SurrealEdge said: Mag . . . is in a much stronger state LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: Mag is trash-tier now. You couldn't be more wrong. And since mag isn't really harmed by the way fleeting works, I'd say you genuinely don't know what you're talking about. 26 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: The change isn't really making frames like Ivara anyless OP anyway. Then why does it need to be changed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: LOL I can see that you're one of those Draco kiddies. Good day to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Azrael said: You couldn't be more wrong. And since mag isn't really harmed by the way fleeting works, I'd say you genuinely don't know what you're talking about. Then why does it need to be changed? I can't even remember the last time I saw a mag. Not to mention her shield polarize does pathetic damage compared to what it used to do in endless missions. 2 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said: I can see that you're one of those Draco kiddies. Nope, and what do you hope to achieve with name calling anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just now, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: Nope, and what do you hope to achieve with name calling anyway? Absolutely nothing, as everyone has received the same ignorance throughout all of your recent threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said: I can see that you're one of those Draco kiddies. Good day to you. Heh heh, he just makes threads so he can argue with people. 1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: Not to mention her shield polarize does pathetic damage compared to what it used to do in endless missions. You seriously, honestly, do not know how mag works. It might be a good idea to learn how she works now before you start making claims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trittium00 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 Not that this thread seemed to have a particular topic going into it, as the original post had no description of what the specific issue was, but this thread seems to have gone way off the rails with talk about throwing shoes in the air and now whether Mag is decent. Small piece of advice DesecratedFlame, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. What I mean by that is, you get more people to agree to your point of view if you can present an intelligent and reasoned argument rather than just saying things like "it should be obvious" and getting offended when people don't understand where you're coming from. With nearly 6,500 posts to your name, you clearly have a lot of things to contribute to the forum. But after all that time I'm puzzled as to why you're surprised people don't understand your thread when you begin it by presenting no evidence to support your point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xekrin Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 4 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: Title Never. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, Trittium00 said: Not that this thread seemed to have a particular topic going into it, as the original post had no description of what the specific issue was, but this thread seems to have gone way off the rails with talk about throwing shoes in the air and now whether Mag is decent. Small piece of advice DesecratedFlame, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar. What I mean by that is, you get more people to agree to your point of view if you can present an intelligent and reasoned argument rather than just saying things like "it should be obvious" and getting offended when people don't understand where you're coming from. With nearly 6,500 posts to your name, you clearly have a lot of things to contribute to the forum. But after all that time I'm puzzled as to why you're surprised people don't understand your thread when you begin it by presenting no evidence to support your point of view. Going in depth an being super thorough doesn't work though. See: ^That didn't even get a peep. I am just sticking to what I have actually seen work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: ^That didn't even get a peep. I am just sticking to what I have actually seen work. Huh? You got over 100 rep on your op, and pages of discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trittium00 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: ^That didn't even get a peep. That thread you linked has 354 replies. What do you mean it didn't get a peep? Seems as though it got loads of attention to me. What you are saying you have actually seen work, if this thread is anything to go by, is known by many people as baiting. Starting a thread with a particularly vague and/or controversial topic for the sake of getting hits. If you legitimately want something to be done about Fleeting Expertise then I hate to break it to you, this is unfortunately not the right way to go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Trittium00 said: That thread you linked has 354 replies. What do you mean it didn't get a peep? Seems as though it got loads of attention to me. What you are saying you have actually seen work, if this thread is anything to go by, is known by many people as baiting. Starting a thread with a particularly vague and/or controversial topic for the sake of getting hits. If you legitimately want something to be done about Fleeting Expertise then I hate to break it to you, this is unfortunately not the right way to go about it. 4 minutes ago, Azrael said: Huh? You got over 100 rep on your op, and pages of discussion. I meant from the people that actually matter, DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: Going in depth an being super thorough doesn't work though. See: ^That didn't even get a peep. I am just sticking to what I have actually seen work. Quote 354 replies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just now, SurrealEdge said: -snip- see: 1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: I meant from the people that actually matter, DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: see: It still generated discussion. I know that despite being a largely discussed thread and no replies from DE, they still take the time to look over feedback. In this case, this was made two years ago. I do recall Steve or Scott mentioning this topic in a devstream. How long ago that was, I couldn't tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 Just now, SurrealEdge said: It still generated discussion. I know that despite being a largely discussed thread and no replies from DE, they still take the time to look over feedback. In this case, this was made two years ago. I do recall Steve or Scott mentioning this topic in a devstream. How long ago that was, I couldn't tell you. I looking to affect change, not have a nice afternoon chat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: I looking to affect change, not have a nice afternoon chat. It doesn't mean that it reflects what they have in mind. It is their game and how they run it is almost entirely up to them. What the community can provide is feedback. Not everything is considered, but if they were to take a suggestion from the community that affects gameplay, they'll want to adjust it so that it works with what is established. You can't simply expect them to make changes that remove how the game has continued to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 9 minutes ago, SurrealEdge said: It doesn't mean that it reflects what they have in mind. It is their game and how they run it is almost entirely up to them. What the community can provide is feedback. Not everything is considered, but if they were to take a suggestion from the community that affects gameplay, they'll want to adjust it so that it works with what is established. You can't simply expect them to make changes that remove how the game has continued to work. I didn't expect them to make the change per se, just to acknowledge the suggestion. Can't even consider it if they never even hear about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trittium00 Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 I think the root of the issue here is the assumption that if DE doesn't reply to a thread, then they haven't read it. This is not the case. DE most certainly does read many threads (not literally every single one of course). However, they can't comment and get into developer discussions with players on every topic that a particular person feels is 'game breaking'. It simply doesn't work that way. So just because they haven't replied to you directly doesn't mean that they haven't taken your suggestion on board for internal discussion. However, I can tell you that creating bait threads with vague topics and rambling arguments about shoes WILL NOT make it to the developer table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurrealEdge Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) 11 minutes ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: I didn't expect them to make the change per se, just to acknowledge the suggestion. Can't even consider it if they never even hear about it. They're already quite behind on a large number of things, more so in the recent months with TWW. On a devstream they made mention and possible hinting towards changing how damage works and the doomsayers saying that damage 3.0 will kill off the game. In that same regard, DE has made minor changes regarding how enemies scale. Enemies are now more proportional than they ever were, albeit still mowed down with the immense number of damage increasing mods we continually get. The above is just an example, but they do look at feedback. How and why they choose to openly acknowledge certain topics and threads is greatly due to the overall communities desire to see those immediate changes rather than a specific aspect of it. It's not the best way to go about, I'll admit, but for the longevity of the game, they'll want to keep their attention on the broader spectrum. It doesn't hurt to go back and recreate a thread and see if that would generate anymore interest in that specific area. Take your thread from two years ago, revise it a bit, add more reasoning to why it should be changed or what would best be beneficial to help maintain the mechanic while aiding the player. As well as take in feedback from replies generated from the topic and put them into the OP so others can see the suggestions offered should they align with your ideas on how these changes should be implemented. Criticism is also needed as it also helps to make adjustments to the idea so that it encompasses a larger part of the community and address their concerns. Of course there will be those that just reply with nonsense and memes, you can gloss over those and look at the criticism that could help with the changes. I've looked over at your other thread regarding infinite ammo on weaponry, but that would be taking it to an extreme and would break the flow of the game. Not the tedium involved, but the amount of catering to those that prefer to only use specific weapons would break what the game limits. Edited October 23, 2016 by SurrealEdge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)DesecratedFlame Posted October 23, 2016 Author Share Posted October 23, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Trittium00 said: I think the root of the issue here is the assumption that if DE doesn't reply to a thread, then they haven't read it. This is not the case. DE most certainly does read many threads (not literally every single one of course). However, they can't comment and get into developer discussions with players on every topic that a particular person feels is 'game breaking'. It simply doesn't work that way. So just because they haven't replied to you directly doesn't mean that they haven't taken your suggestion on board for internal discussion. However, I can tell you that creating bait threads with vague topics and rambling arguments about shoes WILL NOT make it to the developer table. Hundreds of upvotes and not a single acknowledgement of the issue seems pretty convincing to me. Meanwhile, this sort of layout has been witnessed working, repeatedly. Why put in the extra work when it just makes it, demonstrably, less effective? Edited October 23, 2016 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insizer Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 5 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: Nope, that still doesn't apply. The repeated impacts example would be closer to topping off Nekros's Shadows or Frost's Bubble. You can increase the angle and force applied to the initial shoe toss as well as the following impacts, but the following impacts are not a constant and steady drain like the toggle/holding the string. Toggles are a steady continuous force. Whereas the impact to push something back to it's apex is how topping off Shadows works and is applied after additional calculations and adjustments. Just like how an impact won't make the shoe go directly up, you will need to adjust when you top off your shadows based on various elements as well. I'm glad to see that you agree with my other points such as: You didn't say anything, and that "toggle abilities are affected by duration because toggles are used for abilities that act over a duration". Actually it does apply, but it seems that you are not willing to accept or consider any opinion other than your own. How does it apply? Well what if the impacts were sufficiently small and the frequency was sufficiently quick? After all, toggle abilities don't drain by fractions, and even if they did. All I would need to do is lower the momentum and raise the frequency such that those small momentum transfers approximate a "constant force" to our eyes. Look, your analogy is silly, and I am right. I'm not just bringing up ridiculious "what ifs", but actual mathematical principals. See the definitions of integrals for more info. I'm not going to argue about this silly analogy any further. Aside from that I've yet see any further reasons, other than an analogy, as to why toggle abilities shouldn't be affected by duration, from your camp. I'm tired of this gong show of a debate that isn't going anywhere, and am not going to be replying further. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nazrethim Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 8 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: Title No explanation on OP, so I will pretend you mean: "Reduce it's effect to +20% Efficiency -20% Duration" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gelkor Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 9 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: It does need adjusted since the changes to toggle skills. It should be +60 and -30 respectively. Because game mechanics in Warframe necessitate a sacrifice for a bonus in the case of using Corrupted mods. And because efficiency is twice as powerful for toggle abilities as duration, in practical effect, Fleeting Expertise is already what you suggest, (at least as applied to toggle abilities). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 23, 2016 Share Posted October 23, 2016 10 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: Title 10 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said: It does need adjusted since the changes to toggle skills. It should be +60 and -30 respectively. Only after this post do I understand the meaning of the OP. After the 6th post do we really understand what the hell are we discussing here. Fleeting Expertise does not affect toggle skills only, but rather all abilities. Changing the duration here isn't really going to help much since efficiency based abilities are mainly catered towards spamming (which I admit, is not by any means a good move) and I hope you do notice that corrupted mods have an unstable ratio regarding the deduction of stats. Narrow Minded +99% with -66% (3:-2 ratio), Transient Fortitude +55% with -27.5% (2:-1 ratio), and I'm not listing out the rest. 1:-1 seems fine for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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