Rakta Dark Dagger-Feedback

[Leavith]

                To start this off I feel like I should first explain this I like the dagger it has a nice look to it and good overall stats while is status chance is low I have no real problem with it even if is passive is dependent on that status chance.

Now I will add that I use my Rakta Dark Dagger as a weapon from my syndicate so this weapon is something I actually worked for and not traded for. Giving a little bit extra details I just recently got my RDD(Rakta Dark Dagger) but I have not been farming affinity with it so is not max out.

That brings me to my main point as I have been using my RDD I have began to notice how not synergetic this passive is with the dagger. I would like to explain the passive I am referring to is the shield restore/overshield boost the Dagger gives on striking enemies that have a radiation status ,I am not however referring to the additional passive it has regarding the distance required for enemies to detect you.

Now you may ask what is my problem with it after all I just accused the dagger to have a passive that is not synergetic with RDD

Well let me first address that looking at the other syndicate passive as a standard for RDD to follow. To be clear I am not saying the daggers passive is weak or strong instead I am providing feedback on my opinion regarding this dagger and how it can be improved on and maybe provide it with a more synergetic passive that matches up well with the weapon.

The Faults

Spoiler

 

The Weapon to Passive

Alright, The weapon is a dagger I am pretty sure that is clear, which hammers my 1st point on this that because it is a dagger people will use this dagger with the same form of playstyle as all the other daggers are use....Which is for stealth killing enemies be it with covert lethality or with Finisher touch. Meaning most people that use daggers for the fun or for mission are using them in a stealthy fashion to kill in one shot.(because finisher damage is a thing) SOOOOOoooo, what's the problem? Well the passive requires two hits at best to be truly function and well I am no genius but that pretty much redefines that if people are using daggers in the game and the best way to use a dagger is using a stealth strike which only take one hit to kill then that means people are not triggering the passive for the dagger making the passive not be supportive to the player and weapon leading to the missing out of a cool aspect.

TLDR

Spoiler

The RDD  lack of  passive synergy exist in that the passive is never really accessible unless your just really fighting low level enemies and just spamming the dagger without using it for stealth kills.

 

The Syndicate to Passive

Now to hammer my 2nd point in is in regards that idea of the actual passive effect not what triggers it. The RDD effect is provide shields/overshield to the warframe, but this has no correlation with the Red Veil the Syndicate you acquire the dagger from. Why would I say such mean things you may ask?  To be honest the Red Veil is like New Loka gone evil and crazy kind of contradiction of a way to preserve life since you can preserve life by helping it grow and by feeding it or you can preserve life by killing everything except that life so only that life is around and it can survive. Which pushes me further to the point where the Red Veil Passive giving shield boost is not red veil nature that is more of Steel M faction which relates in providing protection showing me that the passive isn't to well synergies with the syndicate idea itself as why would a syndicate fix on purge have a weapon that has a passive that provides shields. Just a little more to add the Red Veil uses Infested chargers and those things have no shields not a single pieces of shield just showing they are not about that shield life.

TLDR

Spoiler

The RDD lack of passive synergy exist that even the nature of the passive boost those not match with the nature of the syndicate, unless you think shields have something to do with Purge believers that use infested as pets.

 

The Fix

Spoiler

 

I can suggest many ways to fix this but I will only talk about two simple methods, and not any complex complete overhaul that has things throw out the window.

1st relating to the Weapon to Passive(NO TLDR is short enough)

You could change the passive to provide shield when it attacks an enemy in stealth or you kill an enemy in stealth...I am fine with either one. As both of this give an effect that has synergy in the way daggers are use as a 1 shot stealth kill weapon or stealth attacking weapon

2nd relates to the Syndicate to Passive

This method is simply give the passive of steel meridian melee weapon to RDD and give RDD passive to the Vaykor trident weapon. This passive switch would not contradict or affect the nature of the passive on either side of the of the idea because if we look at it is relation of  weapon to passive or syndicate to passive it lacks fault at is keeping things in synergy.

Why you may ask this?

Well the Vaykor Trident weapon stacks blocks and then after so many blocks are stack gives a blind.If you were to give this buff to the dagger you would stack blocks and after you stacked enough you would blind and then you can go in for stealth kills.

This would open UP SO MANY new tactics using the RDD mainly one that has to do with your stealth wearing off or you messed up trying to do a stealth kill enemies notices you and you know your dead if you don't get out. Pull up that block and charge the block to do the blind. This tactic ,it may give you quiet the damage since dagger don't block to much but it still will provide a nice getaway plan or a reset so you can finish that kill attempt.

To add I feel like this change would help out the Vaykor Trident users as Vaykor has a good status chance and only two physical type damages.

TLDR

Spoiler

Vaykor trident and RDD switch passives and they get re-adjusted for each weapon so that they are not OP or are not left behind in the dust.

 

Well this is just an idea and my feedback

Edited November 11, 2016 by Leavith

[Kalvorax]

the switching of the passives would make FAR more sense.....a radial blind with the dagger would open enemies to finishes...add CL and bam, death everywhere...even if you have to block :|

and the shields for the sydon make even more sense...use the vaykore weapons to get the health and armor boost and the sydon for shield boost...

[Drufo]

Your arguments make sense, and I agree, but I doubt they will ever switch passives. A minor correction could simply be that the shield/overshield bonus is added everytime the RDD procs radiation  (so you don't need anymore 2 hits to get the effects)

[SDGDen]

sigh..... because BLOCKING BULLETS with a dagger totally makes sense. and no. not everyone uses covert lethality exclusively. i use my dark dagger a lot and because of daggers being fast hitters but not dealing much damage. if you go for a speed build you can easily get 1600 shields or more. i do have covert lethality on it because i dont want to switch the build if im doing a stealth mission. another thing is that you can use its syndicate mod to add more status. which increases the chance you proc a rad proc. 

[(PSN)lhbuch]

I have the same feeling about it. 

A short stick that has radiation damage?

The only way to play something like this at high levels is with Covert Lethality because if you try to melee with it and it procs radiation... it has the same effect as to scream " look I´m here right next to this guy, shoot here please..."

And to gain its passive benefits, you need to ticke a radiation inflicted enemy with your short stick BUT a radiation inflicted enemy will be shooting and receiving shots, so you need to enter a shoot out with your short stick to gain some shields...

In summary, the base damage of the weapon is absolutely against the weapons nature which is stealth and in order to gain some shields you have to risk getting shot... It is a cycle of contradictions...

 

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

I always felt that the Secura Lecta and Rakta Dark Dagger's passives were switched in the last minute. Increased finisher attack animation is supposed to be a thing for the Rakta Dark Dagger, but two stealth passives probably shouldn't be a thing. The Overshields concept should have been for the Secura Lecta indefinitely.

Edited November 11, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Leavith]

5 hours ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

sigh..... because BLOCKING BULLETS with a dagger totally makes sense. and no. not everyone uses covert lethality exclusively. i use my dark dagger a lot and because of daggers being fast hitters but not dealing much damage. if you go for a speed build you can easily get 1600 shields or more. i do have covert lethality on it because i dont want to switch the build if im doing a stealth mission. another thing is that you can use its syndicate mod to add more status. which increases the chance you proc a rad proc. 

Blocking bullets with a dagger makes sense we are space magical ninjas we done more outrages things then that and we can justify the strange way we block things with our weapons on the idea that our warframes have a very good reaction speed and observation skills that let them block bullets.

And yes, I do know not everyone uses convert lethality after all you don't need to run convert lethality if your facing lvl 1-40 enemies and your stealth killing ,but since  I am talking efficiency and proficiency with the weapon that needs finisher damage to lay out an enemy in one hit to use it at is best you would need convert lethality.

When I made this I was not pondering the idea of individuals playstyle but the bigger groups playstyle. This larger group is probably made up of 99% of people in warframe that own a dagger and use it for stealth killing, instead of 1% of people in warframe who use alternative styles to use a dagger to have fun. Although it can be said that this large groups use the dagger in stealth damage kill way because is fun I should know I am the 99%.

Also if your using RDD for speed swinging you can easily find weapons that are faster and can go even faster by the use of berserker mod since well 5% crit chance......all I got to say their.

As for your idea of speed swing to get 1600 shields and more you can basically do the same if you give this passive to the vaykor trident and it would work their even better since that weapon can actually utilize crits,has good range,better base damage, and has an already good status chance.

Yes, I know u can add syndicate mod to add more status,but that status as I mention those not matter since this weapon is one shotting enemies left and right, so in summary unless your not killing your enemies in one hit with a weapon that has the capability to do so(meaning your not using it to is full capacity) then that would be the only way that you will be triggering passive shield restored.

Another thing your playstyle with that weapon is based around the passive and not the weapon, Consider you took away the idea of stealth killing that the dagger has created a nest for in this game and you brought it out in the open since you can restore your shields from swing....Now if you were to take restore shields away from the dagger then this playstyle would not function providing extra evidence that is the passive your playing with not the weapon.

As for why the blind/block on the dagger that is because if you do mess up a killing attempt you can easily put block up suffer some damage (after all daggers have low block percentage meaning you still will be hurt making it a solid backlash effect to not make this weapon to OP) and then blind to reset your assassination attempt. Making this weapon and passive work better in synergy instead of against the weapon like it those presently

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Change the passive to restore energy on stealth kills. Done.

[SDGDen]

2 hours ago, Leavith said:

Blocking bullets with a dagger makes sense we are space magical ninjas we done more outrages things then that and we can justify the strange way we block things with our weapons on the idea that our warframes have a very good reaction speed and observation skills that let them block bullets.

And yes, I do know not everyone uses convert lethality after all you don't need to run convert lethality if your facing lvl 1-40 enemies and your stealth killing ,but since  I am talking efficiency and proficiency with the weapon that needs finisher damage to lay out an enemy in one hit to use it at is best you would need convert lethality.

When I made this I was not pondering the idea of individuals playstyle but the bigger groups playstyle. This larger group is probably made up of 99% of people in warframe that own a dagger and use it for stealth killing, instead of 1% of people in warframe who use alternative styles to use a dagger to have fun. Although it can be said that this large groups use the dagger in stealth damage kill way because is fun I should know I am the 99%.

Also if your using RDD for speed swinging you can easily find weapons that are faster and can go even faster by the use of berserker mod since well 5% crit chance......all I got to say their.

As for your idea of speed swing to get 1600 shields and more you can basically do the same if you give this passive to the vaykor trident and it would work their even better since that weapon can actually utilize crits,has good range,better base damage, and has an already good status chance.

Yes, I know u can add syndicate mod to add more status,but that status as I mention those not matter since this weapon is one shotting enemies left and right, so in summary unless your not killing your enemies in one hit with a weapon that has the capability to do so(meaning your not using it to is full capacity) then that would be the only way that you will be triggering passive shield restored.

Another thing your playstyle with that weapon is based around the passive and not the weapon, Consider you took away the idea of stealth killing that the dagger has created a nest for in this game and you brought it out in the open since you can restore your shields from swing....Now if you were to take restore shields away from the dagger then this playstyle would not function providing extra evidence that is the passive your playing with not the weapon.

As for why the blind/block on the dagger that is because if you do mess up a killing attempt you can easily put block up suffer some damage (after all daggers have low block percentage meaning you still will be hurt making it a solid backlash effect to not make this weapon to OP) and then blind to reset your assassination attempt. Making this weapon and passive work better in synergy instead of against the weapon like it those presently

please dont walloftext me.

 

also. yes. there are faster weapons. but do those weapons give like 50 to 100 shield per hit at 2 2 hits per second aka 200 shield per second? spoiler alert: they dont.

[Leavith]

12 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

please dont walloftext me.

 

also. yes. there are faster weapons. but do those weapons give like 50 to 100 shield per hit at 2 2 hits per second aka 200 shield per second? spoiler alert: they dont.

your comment "don't wall of text me "simply enough says that wall text was not read ,but let me tell you what that wall does it has taken every word you said on your previous post and I took the point you made mention and argued why my suggestion still proves to be better in the end. 

50 to 100 shields per hit......if you really using your dagger to attack with simple damage your using a dagger in my opinion wrong since dagger are intended with the way they are now to be used as stealth one shot killers....not as attack spammer like scindo prime,galatine prime,orthos prime,or any other form along the lines.

Of course I am not saying is wrong that you play the way you want I am just saying that in my opinion your not being effective and efficient with the capabilities of that weapon.

Maybe your confuse but I am suggesting a switch of passive between RDD and Vaykor trident.I am not suggesting the passive to disappear so gaining shields by swinging your weapon on a procs enemy will be possible your just gonna have to use be doing it with a better weapon then RDD in term of upfront damage,procs,range,crit,and speed potential......So I am sorry if my idea makes two weapon even better.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Leavith

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

Overshields with Red Veil makes no sense. They're the World-Ender Syndicate, Burn-Everything-Asunder Syndicate, Kill-With-No-Regret Syndicate. Overshields? They want the Tenno to be Zerking, not slashing the radiated enemy for more shields over and over just to get paltry protection in return.

Shields is too technical for the Red Veil. Their philosophy probably is more in line with considering health and shields as a dump stat if any.

Edited November 12, 2016 by (PS4)Lei-Lei_23

[Enno69]

Didn't read your wall of text OP but I agree with the idea, it is disappointing. Just bought it, and I regret this waste of standing. Unlike the Cernos and the Ballistica, this doesn't feel like something "Red Veil-level badass", but merely like a slight upgrade to the normal dark dagger.

[Leavith]

3 hours ago, Enno69 said:

Didn't read your wall of text OP but I agree with the idea, it is disappointing. Just bought it, and I regret this waste of standing. Unlike the Cernos and the Ballistica, this doesn't feel like something "Red Veil-level badass", but merely like a slight upgrade to the normal dark dagger.

If you open up the spoiler tag their is another spoiler tag that read TLDR open that up it should give you the summary in case you may be interested.

[SDGDen]

well then mister smartass. lets see. you know why its radiation damage proc? because the dagger is innate radiation. if you build it for just radiation and status you easily get about 30% chance of a radiation proc. meanwhile the vaykor sydon has 25% innate status. which is more. buuuuut it has IPS. so that means that to get 30% chance to get a radiation proc. you need 120% status chance. WHICH SPOILER ALERT! IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET! also. yes. daggers are THE weapon to use for asassination. but they are only usable in that way because of covert lethality. if you are fighting an enemy head on with a dagger. the fighting style is hit the weak parts as fast as possible as many times as possible. daggers are speed focussed weapons. while what you call "attack spam weapons" are strength focussed slower weapons. not just due to their speed stat. but also due to their slow and clunky animations. the vaykor sydon has a 1.08 attack speed for a polearm. which in combination with the actual chance you get a radiation proc per hit makes the passive almost USELESS! meanwhile from a game designers standpoint. a dagger. that can instantkill using finishers. with a blind? that is waaaaay to op. especially if you can bring that with any caracter of your liking.

 

so in short. your proposed update would leave the rakta dark dagger to strong. and the vaykor sydon to weak. they are both perfect as they are now. not to weak. not to strong. also. if you think the effect is useless. you are using the weapon wrong. 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

8 minutes ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

well then mister smartass. lets see. you know why its radiation damage proc? because the dagger is innate radiation. if you build it for just radiation and status you easily get about 30% chance of a radiation proc. meanwhile the vaykor sydon has 25% innate status. which is more. buuuuut it has IPS. so that means that to get 30% chance to get a radiation proc. you need 120% status chance. WHICH SPOILER ALERT! IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET! also. yes. daggers are THE weapon to use for asassination. but they are only usable in that way because of covert lethality. if you are fighting an enemy head on with a dagger. the fighting style is hit the weak parts as fast as possible as many times as possible. daggers are speed focussed weapons. while what you call "attack spam weapons" are strength focussed slower weapons. not just due to their speed stat. but also due to their slow and clunky animations. the vaykor sydon has a 1.08 attack speed for a polearm. which in combination with the actual chance you get a radiation proc per hit makes the passive almost USELESS! meanwhile from a game designers standpoint. a dagger. that can instantkill using finishers. with a blind? that is waaaaay to op. especially if you can bring that with any caracter of your liking.

 

so in short. your proposed update would leave the rakta dark dagger to strong. and the vaykor sydon to weak. they are both perfect as they are now. not to weak. not to strong. also. if you think the effect is useless. you are using the weapon wrong. 

That's why you make it give you energy on stealth kills instead, so that it can feed on itself. 

• use prowl
• get stealth kill
• get fed energy
• stealth lasts longer

[(PSN)Lei-Lei_23]

2 hours ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

That's why you make it give you energy on stealth kills instead, so that it can feed on itself. 

• use prowl
• get stealth kill
• get fed energy
• stealth lasts longer

I can stand behind this, not because it synergizes with Ivara's Prowl but because the Red Veil Syndicate Burst heals energy while dealing a 1000 Viral AoE. It's in line with Red Veil's raison d'etre.

... But seriously, Secura Lecta getting Overshields from elemental procs should be its thing. The whip would have to get a drastic change on its innate elemental damage type, but whatever.

[alexsok2001]

можете сделать  браню кридитную  а/?
 

 

[Leavith]

15 hours ago, SupremeDutchGamer said:

well then mister smartass. lets see. you know why its radiation damage proc? because the dagger is innate radiation. if you build it for just radiation and status you easily get about 30% chance of a radiation proc. meanwhile the vaykor sydon has 25% innate status. which is more. buuuuut it has IPS. so that means that to get 30% chance to get a radiation proc. you need 120% status chance. WHICH SPOILER ALERT! IS IMPOSSIBLE TO GET! also. yes. daggers are THE weapon to use for asassination. but they are only usable in that way because of covert lethality. if you are fighting an enemy head on with a dagger. the fighting style is hit the weak parts as fast as possible as many times as possible. daggers are speed focussed weapons. while what you call "attack spam weapons" are strength focussed slower weapons. not just due to their speed stat. but also due to their slow and clunky animations. the vaykor sydon has a 1.08 attack speed for a polearm. which in combination with the actual chance you get a radiation proc per hit makes the passive almost USELESS! meanwhile from a game designers standpoint. a dagger. that can instantkill using finishers. with a blind? that is waaaaay to op. especially if you can bring that with any caracter of your liking.

 

so in short. your proposed update would leave the rakta dark dagger to strong. and the vaykor sydon to weak. they are both perfect as they are now. not to weak. not to strong. also. if you think the effect is useless. you are using the weapon wrong. 

I am going to say I agree with you if RDD gave the passive without adjustment to Vaykor Sydon ,but if it got adjusted to match like it would normally happened with any transferring of a passive that I have seen in a game then it will likely get adjusted to the weapon naturally capabilities making the trade fair for both weapons as RDD would need less blocks to blind and Vaykor Sydon wouldn't need to actually procs Radiation just is natural base damage.

So to the argument you made

Argument 1 because it has innate radiation procs....If the Vaykor Sydon got the passive of RDD then Vaykor Sydon would have to get that passive adjusted to match the procs that it can do,and when we consider that Vaykor has only 2 base damage that I can procs naturally....Impact and Puncture then this isn't so bad specially if you run a build like this(pressure point/Fury/body count/Weeping wound/berserker/auger strike/stretch/Your choice) this would make sure every strike would basically stagger your enemy or puncture the enemy triggering your passive.

Argument 2 because when you fight head on you aim your dagger that moves fast at weak parts....I am not sure what you mean by aiming the dagger strikes to weak parts they are fixed attack animation and most melee strike specially dagger strikes all aim for the chest of enemies your not really able to control where the strikes go just what direction.If you were running a polerm weapon and using the rare stance bleeding willow then headshots are easier acquired with direct attack then with a dagger, and since head shots are actually weak points then bonus damage

Argument 3 because daggers are speed focus weapons.......Rakta Dark dagger is 1.0 relative to the daggers while Vaykor Sydon is 1.08 relative to the polerms with fury is 30%which still leaves Rakta Dark dagger ahead but with berserker support stacking since vaykor has a 15% chance in comparison to 5% from RDD then that leaves Vaykor even with just 1 stack at 60% while RDD is still at 30% more speed.

[(PSN)Darth-Escar]

I don't see an issue. Rakta Dark dagger was buffed in ways which actually make it viable without finishers. It's no longer simply a back stabby stick. The great thing about it is it's it suits stealthy and aggressive gameplay. You wouldn't take advantage of both passives at once, but I don't see that as an issue.