[Spoiler] Thoughts on the new system

[AdunSaveMe]

Don't get me wrong, the quest was cool, and the new system is thematically interesting, but... why like this?
1. All your energy is drained if the operator loses all their health, which is absurdly punishing, because:
2. The operator has almost no health, and is threatened by a rogue sneeze. It refills very slowly. Being out for a second is death.
3. Because of points 1 & 2, it feels like it's only good for doing one thing, which is:
4. Dealing with Kuva Guardians, which require this mechanic.

In short, this ability is WAY too niche. It feels like it's there just to deal with kuva guardians. I was hoping we'd get an actual game-changer, something better than focus, something that we can grow and use regularly (or sparingly), something we weren't limited by or that wasn't too specific to be useful or interesting. This does not feel like any of that. Imagine if Focus was made just to deal with nullifier bubbles. That's what this feels like.

[KaizergidorahXi]

I would love if the operators got different abilities based on what Focus school you were using. Some could heal or sap enemy health, but all would be able to use void dash so they could disarm the guards or something. But I agree, the whole system seems very...pointless at the moment.

[Irorone]

Operators will need some expansion for sure but I found one thing especially handy about them.

It doesn't look like shadow stalker can adapt to operator damage.

[AdunSaveMe]

31 minutes ago, KaizergidorahXi said:

I would love if the operators got different abilities based on what Focus school you were using. Some could heal or sap enemy health, but all would be able to use void dash so they could disarm the guards or something. But I agree, the whole system seems very...pointless at the moment.

Very much so. It's kinda disappointing. But it does have promise.

I think it would have been interesting if pressing 5 instead charged your next move, so you'd press five, then the next bullet jump you do will be the operator teleport and would disarm enemies it passes through. Boosting your E would be the big force blast that stuns enemies. Boosting crouch (which would be awkward, but doable) would make you go invisible. All of these would drain from the transference meter so you couldn't spam them all the time, but they would all be useful, they could all be used strategically, and they wouldn't be entirely niche.

But what do I know? My ideas are silly.

[DeadEyedChicken]

War within is glitching. u need to run first mission solo or u cant progress. the archwing mission is a *@##$ and when finally got to the console on last life i get hung in the air unable to do anything lucky my sentinel held em off tho i had to die to become de suspended which ultimately failed the mission

[AdunSaveMe]

5 minutes ago, DeadEyedChicken said:

War within is glitching. u need to run first mission solo or u cant progress. the archwing mission is a *@##$ and when finally got to the console on last life i get hung in the air unable to do anything lucky my sentinel held em off tho i had to die to become de suspended which ultimately failed the mission

I don't see how this is relevant to my thread, but okay.

[DeadEyedChicken]

well again im suspended in the air it thinks i was still on the back of the ship now tho i have more than 1 life so kill me pls

 

[NinthAria]

Would be nice if the Operator's health and damage scaled somehow. I keep thinking back to the end of The Second Dream, and how amazing the Operator's Void laser felt, being able to just melt through Sentients like they were made of twigs.

I loved the hell out of the quest, but that's what the Operator powers (both the new stuff and focus) should feel like.

[AdunSaveMe]

27 minutes ago, NinthAria said:

Would be nice if the Operator's health and damage scaled somehow. I keep thinking back to the end of The Second Dream, and how amazing the Operator's Void laser felt, being able to just melt through Sentients like they were made of twigs.

I loved the hell out of the quest, but that's what the Operator powers (both the new stuff and focus) should feel like.

But even then, why use it over your Warframe? Why use your Warframe over it? It takes you out of normal gameplay just to do more damage in a different way?

[NinthAria]

13 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

But even then, why use it over your Warframe? Why use your Warframe over it? It takes you out of normal gameplay just to do more damage in a different way?

Those are, unfortunately (for me), questions better answered by someone with a better grasp of game design and balance than me. It's a tricky act to make both of them useful without one overshadowing the other, at least to the point of making it a non-choice. (As the center of the gameplay experience, warframe gameplay is probably going to overshadow Operator gameplay to a certain degree.) I don't really have any ideas on that front, but I think it has the potential to be really exciting if Operator powers could be made relevant to more parts of the game.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 hour ago, NinthAria said:

Those are, unfortunately (for me), questions better answered by someone with a better grasp of game design and balance than me. It's a tricky act to make both of them useful without one overshadowing the other, at least to the point of making it a non-choice. (As the center of the gameplay experience, warframe gameplay is probably going to overshadow Operator gameplay to a certain degree.) I don't really have any ideas on that front, but I think it has the potential to be really exciting if Operator powers could be made relevant to more parts of the game.

They wouldn't need to be balanced if they augmented each other. If the operator thing was a different way to use your frame and abilities, and the two worked in tandem with each other, it would be fine. It doesn't work well now because they're both completely separate from each other.

[Xriborg]

I'm hoping that, after the dust settles for TWW, operators will get an overhaul. Not just the new stuff we got, but the neglected focus trees. I think tying in the new focus trees to this new system could do wonders to it.

I actually think this might have been the plan, but they scrapped it in favor to release it on time. The powers we got feel very Zenurik related. I'm wondering if every school had their own powers at one point.

 

On that note, does anyone know what the good/evil stuff does? I didn't notice anything different afterwards.

[AdunSaveMe]

4 minutes ago, Xriah said:

I'm hoping that, after the dust settles for TWW, operators will get an overhaul. Not just the new stuff we got, but the neglected focus trees. I think tying in the new focus trees to this new system could do wonders to it.

I actually think this might have been the plan, but they scrapped it in favor to release it on time. The powers we got feel very Zenurik related. I'm wondering if every school had their own powers at one point.

Hopefully it doesn't end up being mostly abandoned for a year like Focus.

[SethCypher]

Fortunately we live in an age where games are constantly patched and evolve over time, so there's some hope that this system will see improvement. (And I do see the potential for this system to be really fun, but it requires proper integration) The bad news is...this is DE, so there's a 50% chance that it won't get a looking at until 2 years later. Not saying DE is bad at implementing or creating ideas and content, but just saying they tend to shelve out so many ideas that they forget to look at old ideas.

Edited November 12, 2016 by SethCypher

[AdunSaveMe]

15 hours ago, SethCypher said:

Fortunately we live in an age where games are constantly patched and evolve over time, so there's some hope that this system will see improvement. (And I do see the potential for this system to be really fun, but it requires proper integration) The bad news is...this is DE, so there's a 50% chance that it won't get a looking at until 2 years later. Not saying DE is bad at implementing or creating ideas and content, but just saying they tend to shelve out so many ideas that they forget to look at old ideas.

*cough* focus, syndicates, simaris *cough*

[Vortiene]

It'd be nice to see void dash and void blast being unbound from the resource pool. Blast being free and dash having 3 charges that reset when you touch the ground. A slowfall with no resource drain when you hold space could be pretty neat as well. I feel like void lazor should do finisher damage as well, and perhaps % max hp damage so it's always relevant at high levels

[SethCypher]

5 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

*cough* focus, syndicates, simaris *cough*

I think Syndicates and Simaris are okay actually. Its Focus that's the most glaring, and with the new system they have a chance to tie the Focus system into something else and make the many Focus trees actually serve a purpose. Probably won't happen, but that's my hope for it at least.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, SethCypher said:

I think Syndicates and Simaris are okay actually. Its Focus that's the most glaring, and with the new system they have a chance to tie the Focus system into something else and make the many Focus trees actually serve a purpose. Probably won't happen, but that's my hope for it at least.

Hopefully they can realize its full potential. There is hope!

[SethCypher]

Just now, AdunSaveMe said:

Hopefully they can realize its full potential. There is hope!

Didn't even know they were doing Focus reworks. Actually come to think of it, I guess it is rather sensitive seeing as how you're practically changing everyone's build lol.

[AdunSaveMe]

1 minute ago, SethCypher said:

Didn't even know they were doing Focus reworks. Actually come to think of it, I guess it is rather sensitive seeing as how you're practically changing everyone's build lol.

I don't care if builds are changed as long as the end result is better. Focus has gone far too long without the changes it desperately needs.

I guess they figure it's been long enough, and this new system gives it more potential.

Edited November 13, 2016 by AdunSaveMe

[TheLastZanerian]

I agree that having the Operator with a larger health pool would be nice, and that the damage-related should scale based on HP percentage. The other option would be to keep the Operator squishy, but have the Void Beam and Void Blast melt face like in TSD.

That said, I am so happy that DE lets us switch between Tenno and 'Frame at will. I was wondering when they'd do that.

On the other hand, I think Operator development should be separate from Focus... ie: Operator abilities are abilities shared by all Tenno, but Focus powers are power gained from focusing (see what I did there) on one Tenno School.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Dobravolets

[SethCypher]

1 minute ago, Dobravolets said:

I agree that having the Operator with a larger health pool would be nice, and that the damage-related should scale based on HP percentage. The other option would be to keep the Operator squishy, but have the Void Beam and Void Blast melt face like in TSD.

That said, I am so happy that DE lets us switch between Tenno and 'Frame at will. I was wondering when they'd do that.

I think the switch could be less clunky given Warframe's gameplay is about movement fluidity and being able to finely control what you want to do. I basically have to stop, drop dead and switch to the Operator.

[TheLastZanerian]

I see what you're saying, SethCypher... that said, I think DE meant for Operator gameplay to be a distinct change of pace: squish and less agile, but, as in TSD, capable of melting face like nobody's business

[Shreiko]

5 hours ago, AdunSaveMe said:

*cough* focus, syndicates, simaris *cough*

focus being the most recent but is a few weeks off from being a year old. :')

DE's motto should be "The Next Big Thing... on to the next one"

Sadly that big thing is often gold smeared with grime or feces.

Edited November 13, 2016 by Shreiko

[AdunSaveMe]

23 minutes ago, Shreiko said:

focus being the most recent but is a few weeks off from being a year old. :')

DE's motto should be "The Next Big Thing... on to the next one"

Sadly that big thing is often gold smeared with grime or feces.

I dunno, it's not all bad. They have cool concepts. The problem is just not letting something grow before you move on.

But focus reworks are coming with expansions to the new operator thing. Eventually. It's confirmed.